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Author Topic:   OUTRAGE 22 and Honda 225

stayinstrewn posted 07-01-2015 11:30 PM ET (US)
I'm running a Honda F225 (left hand turnning) on my 1979 Outrage 22 with a T-Top. The current propeller is a Honda four-blade which I believe is a 14-inch diameter and not sure of the pitch. It's currently a bit banged up, so I'm thinking of a possible replacement at some point. I believe it's a SOLAS propeller. The goals are:
--efficiency at cruise 22 to 25-nautical-miles-per-hour
--acceleration, and
--top speed
I'm currently seeing a top speed of 37 to 39-nautical-miles-per-hour depending on conditions. Cruising at 22-nautical-miles-per-hour the engine burns about 10-GPH per a Garmin fuel sensor. Any thoughts on a replacement propeller?
Inertia [ENERTIA]?
jimh posted 07-02-2015 12:33 AM ET (US)
I am surprised that your present fuel economy at cruise is only about 2.2-nautical-miles-per-gallon, which would be around 2.5-MPG. That seems low for a modern four-cycle engine and an OUTRAGE 22. You should be able to improve that.
Generally three-blade propellers are good all-round performers. It would be helpful to know the pitch of your present propeller and the engine speed at full throttle.
stayinstrewn posted 07-02-2015 07:38 AM ET (US)
I max at about 5000 rpm but I still have throttle to go except the throttle hits my dash!! Seriously? Who installed it like that?!
I'll report on the pitch later today when I get on the boat.
Tom W Clark posted 07-02-2015 10:52 AM ET (US)
I recommend you try both a 14-1/2" x 17" Mercury Enertia and a 15-1/2" x 17" Mercury MIRAGEplus
I expect the boat to exceed 40 knots at WOT, but you will need to fix your control to test this. You can make a wedge shaped base of the binnacle control to gain more space for the throttle throw
Be sure the motor is mounted at least two holes up on the transom:
o
o
o <-- Bolts Through This Hole In Motor Bracket
o
stayinstrewn posted 07-02-2015 11:37 AM ET (US)
Tom,
Thanks for your reply!
The motor is mounted in that position already, so that's good.
Do you recommend a 3 blade or 4 blade? To be honest, I have no idea why there's a 4 blade prop on right now, but it was there when I bought the boat a few years ago.
Anybody know somebody who has test props in CT I could try? I'm on the Housatonic River.
Tom W Clark posted 07-02-2015 03:03 PM ET (US)
Both the Enertia and the MIRAGEplus are three blade propellers
Tom W Clark posted 07-02-2015 03:07 PM ET (US)
http:/ / www. ebay. com/ itm/ Mercury-Mirage-Plus-Stainless-Propeller-48 -90159-14-75-X-17-LH-48-16315-345162-/ 191614911526
This is a very good price, if it is not bid up. Try it. If it doesn't work well, resell it
jimh posted 07-03-2015 08:51 AM ET (US)
Finding a dealer with a large inventory of test propellers in left-hand rotation is going to be a challenge. My local dealer has about 20-propellers in his test propeller inventory, but I don't think he has any left-hand rotation propellers.
stayinstrewn posted 07-04-2015 12:24 AM ET (US)
Current propeller is a 14-1/4 x 17, and it is a little dinged-up on the edges, but not too bad.
jimh posted 07-04-2015 07:45 AM ET (US)
I think you may be underestimating the effect on speed and fuel economy caused by the damage to the propeller blades of the propeller you are presently using. Damaged propellers also tend to cause an imbalance and affect the bearing on the propeller shaft. The cost of repair or a new propeller would rapidly be made back in improved performance and avoidance of a costly gear case repair.
stayinstrewn posted 07-04-2015 11:23 AM ET (US)
Thanks Jim, I'm sure you're right on that. I'll check with my mechanic and see what propellers he may have that I can test. Enjoy the 4th everybody!
Russ 13 posted 07-09-2015 11:43 PM ET (US)
As a general statement MOST four-blade propellers create additional stern lift, when compared to the average three-blade propeller.
The damage to your existing propeller is also degrading its performance, and skewing your data. The Outrage 22 performs better with a three-blade propeller as additional stern lift is not needed. Three-blade props also tend to be more efficient than four-blade models. A good-quality, stainless, Mercury, Stiletto, or Power Tech propeller will perform MUCH better than some of the cheaper brands available.
stayinstrewn posted 07-10-2015 04:45 PM ET (US)
thanks Russ, good feedback...I am going to see what I can find for testing purposes.
My MPG was all over the place this past weekend from 2.4-4 depending on a bunch of variables, but all around the same RPM...I need to obtain values in a more scientific manner and not just looking at the GPS numbers while cruising around with my family!!
stayinstrewn posted 07-11-2015 09:08 PM ET (US)
Had a look at my trip function for the year, and my total miles travelled are 352 and total fuel use of 130 gallons, good for a 2.7 MPG which includes a moving average of 7.2 knots.
martyn1075 posted 07-12-2015 02:58 AM ET (US)
It can take a great deal of patience and determination when testing for mpg. GPS with combination of a flow meter is probably one of the best accurate ways of testing. Of course varying your load with gas etc. is a good idea as well. Winds combined with current are variables that are sometimes unpredictable which can cause a problem in regards to test results. Not much one can do in that case but take and try again.
IssS
stayinstrewn posted 07-12-2015 07:29 AM ET (US)
I'm using a Garmin 547xs with the Garmin GFS 10 fuel sensor. I took a few pictures of the gps and tach yesterday and the mpg varied from 2.4-4.9 all at 3500 RPMs and 20-21 knots. It's funny as it bounces around, but that's what it does. When running for a long period I will play w trim, tabs and throttle to get best speed/mpg. The GFS 10 has been a great addition to the boat this year.
stayinstrewn posted 07-12-2015 09:00 PM ET (US)
I'm using a Garmin 547xs with the Garmin GFS 10 fuel sensor. I took a few pictures of the gps and tach yesterday and the mpg varied from 2.4-4.9 all at 3500 RPMs and 20-21 knots. It's funny as it bounces around, but that's what it does. When running for a long period I will play w trim, tabs and throttle to get best speed/mpg. The GFS 10 has been a great addition to the boat this year.
jimh posted 07-13-2015 04:33 PM ET (US)
The fuel sensor is probably an in-hose turbine sensor. The flow of fuel to a modern engine is not continuous and steady. The fuel flow may be in spurts as the fuel system tries to keep the fuel pressure in the high-pressure side of the fuel-injection system regulated. There usually is a fuel reservoir and fuel circulation system. Fuel is drawn from the tank only when needed.
stayinstrewn posted 07-13-2015 09:15 PM ET (US)
I don't know if the Honda has the 2 different pumps, but either way the MPG on the Garmin is instantaneous anyway...when on a steady course it's great as it adjusts to the change in trim, tabs, etc.

For longer-term, I'll take a look at overall miles vs gallons burned, which this tells me, and go from there.

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Author	Topic: OUTRAGE 22 and Honda 225
stayinstrewn	posted 07-01-2015 11:30 PM ET (US) I'm running a Honda F225 (left hand turnning) on my 1979 Outrage 22 with a T-Top. The current propeller is a Honda four-blade which I believe is a 14-inch diameter and not sure of the pitch. It's currently a bit banged up, so I'm thinking of a possible replacement at some point. I believe it's a SOLAS propeller. The goals are: --efficiency at cruise 22 to 25-nautical-miles-per-hour --acceleration, and --top speed I'm currently seeing a top speed of 37 to 39-nautical-miles-per-hour depending on conditions. Cruising at 22-nautical-miles-per-hour the engine burns about 10-GPH per a Garmin fuel sensor. Any thoughts on a replacement propeller? Inertia [ENERTIA]?
jimh	posted 07-02-2015 12:33 AM ET (US) I am surprised that your present fuel economy at cruise is only about 2.2-nautical-miles-per-gallon, which would be around 2.5-MPG. That seems low for a modern four-cycle engine and an OUTRAGE 22. You should be able to improve that. Generally three-blade propellers are good all-round performers. It would be helpful to know the pitch of your present propeller and the engine speed at full throttle.
stayinstrewn	posted 07-02-2015 07:38 AM ET (US) I max at about 5000 rpm but I still have throttle to go except the throttle hits my dash!! Seriously? Who installed it like that?! I'll report on the pitch later today when I get on the boat.
Tom W Clark	posted 07-02-2015 10:52 AM ET (US) I recommend you try both a 14-1/2" x 17" Mercury Enertia and a 15-1/2" x 17" Mercury MIRAGEplus I expect the boat to exceed 40 knots at WOT, but you will need to fix your control to test this. You can make a wedge shaped base of the binnacle control to gain more space for the throttle throw Be sure the motor is mounted at least two holes up on the transom: o o o <-- Bolts Through This Hole In Motor Bracket o
stayinstrewn	posted 07-02-2015 11:37 AM ET (US) Tom, Thanks for your reply! The motor is mounted in that position already, so that's good. Do you recommend a 3 blade or 4 blade? To be honest, I have no idea why there's a 4 blade prop on right now, but it was there when I bought the boat a few years ago. Anybody know somebody who has test props in CT I could try? I'm on the Housatonic River.
Tom W Clark	posted 07-02-2015 03:03 PM ET (US) Both the Enertia and the MIRAGEplus are three blade propellers
Tom W Clark	posted 07-02-2015 03:07 PM ET (US) http:/ / www. ebay. com/ itm/ Mercury-Mirage-Plus-Stainless-Propeller-48 -90159-14-75-X-17-LH-48-16315-345162-/ 191614911526 This is a very good price, if it is not bid up. Try it. If it doesn't work well, resell it
jimh	posted 07-03-2015 08:51 AM ET (US) Finding a dealer with a large inventory of test propellers in left-hand rotation is going to be a challenge. My local dealer has about 20-propellers in his test propeller inventory, but I don't think he has any left-hand rotation propellers.
stayinstrewn	posted 07-04-2015 12:24 AM ET (US) Current propeller is a 14-1/4 x 17, and it is a little dinged-up on the edges, but not too bad.
jimh	posted 07-04-2015 07:45 AM ET (US) I think you may be underestimating the effect on speed and fuel economy caused by the damage to the propeller blades of the propeller you are presently using. Damaged propellers also tend to cause an imbalance and affect the bearing on the propeller shaft. The cost of repair or a new propeller would rapidly be made back in improved performance and avoidance of a costly gear case repair.
stayinstrewn	posted 07-04-2015 11:23 AM ET (US) Thanks Jim, I'm sure you're right on that. I'll check with my mechanic and see what propellers he may have that I can test. Enjoy the 4th everybody!
Russ 13	posted 07-09-2015 11:43 PM ET (US) As a general statement MOST four-blade propellers create additional stern lift, when compared to the average three-blade propeller. The damage to your existing propeller is also degrading its performance, and skewing your data. The Outrage 22 performs better with a three-blade propeller as additional stern lift is not needed. Three-blade props also tend to be more efficient than four-blade models. A good-quality, stainless, Mercury, Stiletto, or Power Tech propeller will perform MUCH better than some of the cheaper brands available.
stayinstrewn	posted 07-10-2015 04:45 PM ET (US) thanks Russ, good feedback...I am going to see what I can find for testing purposes. My MPG was all over the place this past weekend from 2.4-4 depending on a bunch of variables, but all around the same RPM...I need to obtain values in a more scientific manner and not just looking at the GPS numbers while cruising around with my family!!
stayinstrewn	posted 07-11-2015 09:08 PM ET (US) Had a look at my trip function for the year, and my total miles travelled are 352 and total fuel use of 130 gallons, good for a 2.7 MPG which includes a moving average of 7.2 knots.
martyn1075	posted 07-12-2015 02:58 AM ET (US) It can take a great deal of patience and determination when testing for mpg. GPS with combination of a flow meter is probably one of the best accurate ways of testing. Of course varying your load with gas etc. is a good idea as well. Winds combined with current are variables that are sometimes unpredictable which can cause a problem in regards to test results. Not much one can do in that case but take and try again. IssS
stayinstrewn	posted 07-12-2015 07:29 AM ET (US) I'm using a Garmin 547xs with the Garmin GFS 10 fuel sensor. I took a few pictures of the gps and tach yesterday and the mpg varied from 2.4-4.9 all at 3500 RPMs and 20-21 knots. It's funny as it bounces around, but that's what it does. When running for a long period I will play w trim, tabs and throttle to get best speed/mpg. The GFS 10 has been a great addition to the boat this year.
stayinstrewn	posted 07-12-2015 09:00 PM ET (US) I'm using a Garmin 547xs with the Garmin GFS 10 fuel sensor. I took a few pictures of the gps and tach yesterday and the mpg varied from 2.4-4.9 all at 3500 RPMs and 20-21 knots. It's funny as it bounces around, but that's what it does. When running for a long period I will play w trim, tabs and throttle to get best speed/mpg. The GFS 10 has been a great addition to the boat this year.
jimh	posted 07-13-2015 04:33 PM ET (US) The fuel sensor is probably an in-hose turbine sensor. The flow of fuel to a modern engine is not continuous and steady. The fuel flow may be in spurts as the fuel system tries to keep the fuel pressure in the high-pressure side of the fuel-injection system regulated. There usually is a fuel reservoir and fuel circulation system. Fuel is drawn from the tank only when needed.
stayinstrewn	posted 07-13-2015 09:15 PM ET (US) I don't know if the Honda has the 2 different pumps, but either way the MPG on the Garmin is instantaneous anyway...when on a steady course it's great as it adjusts to the change in trim, tabs, etc. For longer-term, I'll take a look at overall miles vs gallons burned, which this tells me, and go from there.