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  Outrage 25 Whaler Drive with 250-HP Single-engine

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Author Topic:   Outrage 25 Whaler Drive with 250-HP Single-engine
cc378 posted 07-26-2015 08:28 AM ET (US)   Profile for cc378   Send Email to cc378  
I would love opinions [from] owners of the classic Outrage 25 WD in terms of the performance characteristics of the boat with a single 250 on it. A Revenge 25 WD would also be of interest..

Let's assume the boat is used for cruising and fishing. Given the weight of 3600-lbs plus fuel and motor, it would appear that 250-HP from a modern four-stroke-power-cycle outboard engine would be plenty to cruise at 28-MPH and to fish. But real world experiences are what I am interested in hearing about.

I recognize I could put a 300-HP engine on the back but, I am hoping to avoid this, unless I can be convinced that the boat will be really under-powered. I also recognize that I could put twins on the back but the modern four-cycle engines appear to be too heavy for that option. Twin 200's gets one up to about 1,100 lbs. I would also like to avoid the extra maintenance costs. Thanks--Stephen

macfam posted 07-26-2015 10:17 AM ET (US)     Profile for macfam  Send Email to macfam     
Stephen--we had a 1988 Revenge Walk-Thru with a Yamaha OX66 250hp. This boat had the STANDARD Transom. The boat ran and handled fantastic. Cruising speed was between 23 and 30-MPH, and topped out about 40 to 42-MPH, depending upon conditions.

If I were to re-power, and considering it had a Whaler Drive, my opinion is that it would need a 300-HP to compensate for the Whaler Drive. Good choices available: 300 E-TEC (my first choice), 300 Yamaha, 300 Suzuki, 300 Verado (my last choice). I know the E-TEC is NOT a 4-stroke, but I have an E-TEC 30 on our 13 Super Sport, and love it. Plus, a friend has a 23 Grady Gulf Stream (very heavy and wide) with the 300 E-TEC replacing a OX66 250, and he LOVES it. They idle nearly as quiet as the four-cycle engines, have no smoke, have better acceleration, and have less maintenance. But [the choice] all depends on the dealership network near you.

peteinsf posted 07-26-2015 10:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for peteinsf  Send Email to peteinsf     
Similar discussion:

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/008178.html

peteinsf posted 07-26-2015 11:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for peteinsf  Send Email to peteinsf     
My vote would be a single Evinrude G2 250-300hp. Power and great fuel mileage.

Can't go wrong with that single setup.

I ended up with 2 e-tec 2.6l v6 units but it was not my first choice.

cc378 posted 07-27-2015 05:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for cc378  Send Email to cc378     
Thanks. Why did you go with the 2 V2.6 and why wasn't it your first choice?
peteinsf posted 07-27-2015 09:26 AM ET (US)     Profile for peteinsf  Send Email to peteinsf     
eBay bidding error, I thought I was buying two 3.3l 200s.
peteinsf posted 07-27-2015 09:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for peteinsf  Send Email to peteinsf     
For a different boat.
Tom W Clark posted 07-27-2015 12:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
250 HP is more than enough. I have 300 HP (twin 150s) on my Revenge 25 Walk-Through and think it would really be a better boat with a single 250 or even 225
cc378 posted 07-27-2015 01:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for cc378  Send Email to cc378     
Tom,

Assuming the new engine is a Honda 250 do you have any propeller recommendations.

Thanks

Stephen

Tom W Clark posted 07-27-2015 01:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
14-5/8" x 17" Mercury Revolution 4
John from Madison CT posted 07-27-2015 02:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for John from Madison CT  Send Email to John from Madison CT     
If I was to repower my 25' Outrage Cuddy/ Whaler Drive, I'd probably consider a single 300hp, but I'd bet a 250hp would still hit close to 40mph at WOT.
Jeff posted 07-27-2015 10:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jeff  Send Email to Jeff     
For your reference

These are Jamie's performance numbers with a Suzuki 300
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/007215.html

jimh posted 07-28-2015 02:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
MACFAM writes:

quote:
...considering it had WD, MY OPINION is that it would need a 300hp to compensate for the WD.

It is better to look at a 25-foot hull with a Whaler Drive as a 27.5-foot hull. That is why you need more horsepower. The boat has more hull in the water, and that is because the boat is longer.

cc378 posted 07-28-2015 06:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for cc378  Send Email to cc378     
I spoke with Chuck at BW. He thought a 250 even with a WhalerDrive would be a nice combination.
Tom W Clark posted 07-28-2015 11:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
While the addition of a Whaler drive does indeed add two feet to the Outrage 25's length, it is nothing like the same-length Whaler 27 which is 2 feet wider and a thousand pounds heavier.

I expect an Outrage 25 Whaler Drive with a Honda BF250 to be good for 44 MPH.

Is that fast enough for you?

cc378 posted 07-29-2015 05:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for cc378  Send Email to cc378     
Plenty fast enough :)
macfam posted 07-30-2015 06:14 AM ET (US)     Profile for macfam  Send Email to macfam     
Wait a minute!
Sure 44 mph is fast enough.
But are we to conclude that the Whaler Drive version and notched transom need equal power for equal performance?
Extra drag, extra weight that enhances top speed? Really?
My 25 Revenge WT with the Yamaha 250 OX66 was set up beautifully, with perfect rpm range at wide open, and several trials with various SS props. Tthe ONLY time it ever saw 44mph was on a trailer being pulled by an
F-150.
Are we to assume the Honda 250 is more than 250?
I can buy that a Honda 250 can get 44mph on a notched transom, but I don't buy it can with a Whaler Drive.
Approach 40, yes. Above 40? I really doubt it.
Don't. Get me wrong.....around 40 mph is more than adequate.
I just want to know where the "magic" is coming from.
Are today's props THAT much better?
cc378 posted 07-30-2015 12:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for cc378  Send Email to cc378     
Even if it does 38 that is fast enough for me. I really don't understand the need for additional speed.
dgoodhue posted 07-31-2015 09:37 AM ET (US)     Profile for dgoodhue  Send Email to dgoodhue     
One big advantages of having a higher top speed is higher cruising speeds. Beside a rare short blast, I don't drive at WOT (6000+ rpm) or near WOT for any significant period of time. My boat top speed is 47-48mph and my cruise speeds at 3800-4200rpm are 27-34mph. A couple times I have wanted to get back quickly to avoid a quick moving storm and have bumped my rpm up to 4500 rpm.

The difference is a top speed of 38 to 44 mph is likely a 4 difference in cruise speed (assuming the same rpm.)

jimh posted 08-01-2015 12:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
To move a boat at a particular speed, whether the top speed or a cruising speed, requires a certain amount of horsepower. If you want a boat's cruising speed to increase by 4-MPH, you will have to use more horsepower at cruise. You don't get more horsepower at cruising speeds for free just because your engine is more powerful. You still have to burn more fuel.
cc378 posted 08-04-2015 06:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for cc378  Send Email to cc378     
I had the opportunity to chat with one of the guys who helped design the WhalerDrive in Rockland in the 1980's. He did not want his name shared. His point of view is that a single large engine on a WhalerDrive makes sense for the 20' and perhaps the 22' but not the 25. He agrees that a single on the notched 25' Outrage makes sense but when you add the WhalerDrive the boat and drive really want twins. His suggestion is twin 150's. His thought is this is the best compromise for weight, horsepower, and performance.

Stephen

jimh posted 08-04-2015 11:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Unless you were talking to Bob Dougherty, you probably were not talking to the designer of the Whaler Drive.
Peter posted 08-05-2015 08:06 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
An Outrage 25 with a Whaler Drive is nearly a 27 foot boat. Single outboard on a 27 foot boat? Not for me.

I don't recall seeing a single picture in a Whaler brochure from that era showing an Outrage 25 WD powered by a single outboard.

bwguardian posted 08-05-2015 10:42 AM ET (US)     Profile for bwguardian  Send Email to bwguardian     
I have had a 25 Outrage with twin 150 Mercury outboards and High Five props. That was the best combination for that boat here on the gulf coast as I could either take it offshore or shallow bay fishing. Offshore it always had great sea keeping abilities and inshore could still get up on plane from rest in thigh deep water!

I have sea trialed other 22's and 25's with and without the Whalerdrive. The 22 has twin 135 Mercury outboards hung on a Whalerdrive and does quite well. The 25's I have been in were all notched transom hulls with anything from a single 200 to 300 engines, two and four strokes.

My suggestion for you would be twins with the Whalerdrive. If you are looking for economy, go with twin V-4 engines, and if more power is desired go with twin V-6 engines. With the four stroke V-4 engines you will be able to keep the weight down as desired but personally I still like the two strokes.

jimh posted 08-06-2015 08:35 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I don't think there are any four-cycle outboard engines using a V4 configuration. All the four-cycle outboard engines seem to be using an in-line four-cylinder configuration.

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