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Author Topic:   Re-Powering 1994 Outrage 21
whstein posted 08-01-2015 10:05 PM ET (US)   Profile for whstein   Send Email to whstein  
I will soon be re-powering my 1994 Outrage 21. I have been using a Evinrude 225-HP two-cycle of the same vintage. I am going to go with a Suzuki, but I am undecided as to what horsepower. The Evinrude 225-HP [has] plenty of power and I thought I would just go with a 225-HP, but, when I look at the 2015 Suzuki models, I see that the 200 and the 250 both seem to have some features that the 225 does not, for example, variable valve timing system, lean burn system, easy start system, precision control system and troll mode system as an option. I don't know what most of these features involve except for the troll mode system which is appealing. The bare hull weight is about 2500-lbs. I am wondering if the 200 is adequate and if the 250 is maybe a bit too much. What do you guys think? And, can anybody enlighten me about the features on the 200 and the 250 that are absent on the 225? Thanks.
msirof2001 posted 08-02-2015 01:53 AM ET (US)     Profile for msirof2001  Send Email to msirof2001     
Not exactly the engines you are contemplating but at least this is data to consider. I have a 1995 OUTRAGE 21 which originally had a Yamaha 2-Stroke 200 TXRT. I repowered 1.5 years ago. Below is a link to the whole thread/discussion, and beneath the link, an actual performance testrun. More detail in the aforementioned discussion.

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/008107.html

Yamaha F200 XB 4-CYL 4-Stroke, 489 Lbs. Reliance SDS Prop 17 pitch

The following are my performance stats. Each RPM and Speed was attained twice, and sustained at each level.

RPM  SPD-KTS SPD-MPH  MPG-Statute
1000 4.0 4.6 5.5
1500 5.5 6.3 4.4
2000 6.7 7.7 3.5
2500 8.1 9.3 2.6
3000 9.2 10.6 2.2
3500 22.5 25.9 4.5
3800 24.0 27.6 4.7
4000 28.6 32.9 4.0
4500 30.0 34.5 3.5
5000 34.0 39.1 2.9
5500 38.0 43.7 2.4
5800 39.0 44.9 2.2
jimh posted 08-02-2015 08:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
The 225-HP and 250-HP models, DF225 and DF250 are V6 engines. Lack of variable valve timing on the 225-HP model DF225 is not unusual since it is the lowest power model in the V6 3.6-liter family.

There are several models at the 250-HP level: DF250, DF250SS, and DF250AP. The DF250 seems to have the same feature set as the DF225, other than the addition of the variable valve timing. The DF250AP is the model with the additional features of lean burn and easy start.

The DF200 is an in-line four-cylinder engine. It also seems to lack variable valve timing, lean burn, and quick start features.

Based on that quick overview, it appears only certain models at 250-HP rating have the added features of variable valve timing, lean burn, and quick start. I suspect the prices are accordingly tiered.

martyn1075 posted 08-03-2015 12:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for martyn1075  Send Email to martyn1075     
4-4.7 mpg at low to steady cruise is pretty outstanding in my books in the marine outboard department. The price is steep for the F200 Yamaha but so are all the other makes in that HP range.

I would give that Yamaha a good solid look. The numbers have basically doubled compared to the older yamaha engines perhaps not the HPDI which would have been a little higher then OX 66 model. Variable timing is part of the new Yamaha engines.

msirof2001 posted 08-03-2015 03:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for msirof2001  Send Email to msirof2001     
I researched a lot of Yamaha Performance Reports where the F200 XB was used on a boat similar to the 1993-1997 Outrage 21 in length and weight. They were all in the same ballpark as to performance, and my results were in that ballpark as well.

The 1993-1997 Outrage 21 has a minimum horsepower rating of 150 and a maximum of 300. Whaler's recommendation was 200. Back then, if you wanted more than 250, you got twin 150s. I asked Chuck Bennett (Walking Whaler Encyclopedia) about transom weight and he said he wouldn't recommend more than about 700lbs for that hull. With twin 150's, the boat maxed at 55mph. Most of the motors in the 250-300 HP range, Four-Stroke or Evinrude are in the 550-625lb range. So I think anything would work.

I initially wanted the Yamaha F300 XCA but realized none of the rigging would work and I would come in at $10k above the F200 XB. I like the 200. Doesn't have the same hole-shot as the old 200 2-stroke, but has a great mid-range punch. The Outrage 21 has a 122 gallon fuel tank, and I have a 45 Gallon aftermarket bait tank. With all of those full, I see a hit in performance and mileage. The 300 may not have as noticeable of a hit in rough seas. But still, I think the 200 is great.

I would recommend any of the 200-300HP motors that are available. The G2 300 would probably be the Shelby Cobra of the bunch. Me personally, I have an adversity for Mercury. Seems like they are heavy for the HP relative to peers and the performance tests (mileage) seems lower when looking at similar size and weight boats.

I really like the Outrage 21. I hope it all goes well for you.

msirof2001 posted 08-04-2015 12:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for msirof2001  Send Email to msirof2001     
Looks like Suzuki now has a four-cylinder four-cycle engine which is positioned to compete with the Yamaha F200 XB. [Below there is now a hyperlink to a PDF file of] a performance test using a boat which has a similar length and weight as a 1993-1997 OUTRAGE 21. [Note: the beam of the test boat is incorrectly listed as 10-feet 1-inch; the actual beam is 101-inches. Many thanks to MSIROF201 for catching this error in the test report--jimh] This is probably ballpark what you would get with this Suzuki on your OUTRAGE 21. They went with a 21 pitch prop. Almost all of the Yamaha tests with their F200 XB were using 17 pitch.

[URL to test report]

jimh posted 08-05-2015 10:39 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
[Cleared up mystery about test boat beam. Great work by MSIROF2001 in resolving this.--jimh]
jimh posted 08-05-2015 10:40 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Re the propeller pitch difference between the Suzuki and Yamaha 200-HP engines: compare the gear reduction. I think Suzuki tends to use more gear reduction on their engines.

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