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Author Topic:   PERKO "4 way" Switch

minitauk85 posted 01-11-2006 07:13 PM ET (US)
I currently have a Perko switch on my 15 foot cc. It has 4 switch positions, off, 1, All, and 2. My starter battery is hooked to the #1 terminals. I would like to hook up a deep cell battery to the #2 terminals to use with a trolling motor. Is it as simple as just connecting the terminals? What position should the switch be in while running my outboard? 1,2, or "All"? I currently run it in the #1 position with just the starter battery, this allows the motor to charge the battery while in operation. Will hooking the deep cell to the #2 terminals and setting the switch to the "All" setting charge both batteries? Conversely if the switch is left in the "All" setting will it draw from and / or drain my deep cell? Would it be better to leave my deep cell out of the loop and charge it on a charger at home between fishing trips? Thanks in advance-k
Backlash posted 01-12-2006 07:41 AM ET (US)
Leaving the battery switch in the ALL position is not recommended when running the engine. The ALL position should only be used for emergency engine starting when both batteries are low and for switching between #1 and #2 batteries. If the switch is left in the ALL position with the engine running, the weaker battery will drain power from the stronger battery.
I would hook the deep cycle to the #2 position on the switch with the trolling motor wired directly to the deep cycle battery. That way you can use the engine to charge the deep cycle when you are done trolling. You can always charge the deep cycle at home separately if necessary.
seahorse posted 01-12-2006 08:41 AM ET (US)
When you hook up a second battery, don't forget to include a 4 gauge or larger black cable to the starting battery, negative to negative. Run the red cable (positive) to the #2 switch terminal using at least the same size cable as the starting circuit uses.
acassidy posted 01-20-2006 11:41 PM ET (US)
Okay, the way I would run this is: Starting battery is on #1 and trolling/house battery is on #2. Start the boat only with it on #1. Leave it and let it charge while running only on #1 to recharge the battery back up (maybe 10 minutes), then move it over to #2 (or you could use Both but charges slower) to charge up the trolling battery. If you run your trolling battery down and then start on BOTH #1 battery will try to recharge #2 while it is trying to start the motor (which is bad). That is why you only start on #1. After stopping the motor switch to #2 and uses this for all boat electronics. Be careful not to turn switch to “off” while motor is running, even if intermittent while switching from 1, 2, both. Use BOTH to start only in emergencies. This is all from “Chapman” and I use this setup on my boat and it works great. They key is to hook everything up to the battery switch (motors, electronics, pumps) nothing directly to the batteries.
Hope this helps
minitauk85 posted 01-21-2006 07:26 AM ET (US)
Two questions: Seahorse - Why do you recommend hooking negatives together? This is confusing as my Perko has both positive and negative hookups for both batteries. What is the benefit?
Acassidy- Where does the charge go when you put the switch to "Off" while the engine is running? What happens?

Sorry! that's at least four questions!-k
swist posted 01-21-2006 09:13 AM ET (US)
Switching to off when the boat is running is bad for the alternator diodes. Don't do it. Even for a second. I always shut down before changing the battery switch position in any way.
As has been stated, extensive use of BOTH is not a normal operating procedure; however, it is also depends on whether both batteries are the same type - in this case you could run on both for a while if both batteries need some charging. If you have different types (in particular different technologies like gel vs lead-acid), then you really want to avoid the "both" position unless for emergency starting.
placerville posted 01-21-2006 12:57 PM ET (US)
I'm part of the CW triad that just bought the 21' Revenge STRIKE3 with twin 70 hp Johnsons. None of us has owned a twin engined boat before. From what I've gathered, you have one perko on "1" and the other on "2" and except for emergency starting where you can have one on "both" just to start that engine. Otherwise, never the two shall meet.
Any twin owners out there have another way they run it.
Matt
bluewaterpirate posted 01-21-2006 03:04 PM ET (US)
Most boat manufacturer's wire single engine dual battery installations using a 4 position battery switch. Whaler uses a common buss ground bar located near the batteries and and engine terminal block(+/- wires are connected to this). The normal wiring configuration is as follows:
# 1 battery is connected to position # 1 on the battery switch + to +. The - terminal on battery # 1 is connected to the - terminal on battery # 2 and and another ground cable is run from the - terminal on battery #1 to the a terminal on the common bus ground bar.
# 2 battery is connected to the position # 2 on the baterry switch + to +. Remember that battery # 2 - terminal is jumpered to the - terminal on battery # 1).
From the common positive connection on the battery switch runs 4 positive cable runs.
One runs to the engine terminal block, one runs to a fuze block that distributes power to ur installed electronics, one runs to ur DC Main Fused Switch and the last services ur bilge pump.
To complete the engine circuit - u run a cable from the - terminal on the common bus ground bar to the - terminal on the engine terminal block. All other - connections are connected to the remaining terminals on th bus ground bar to complete the circuits.
A picture is worth a 1000 words.
I use a deep cycle cranking battery as my primary and a cranking battery as my secondary starting source. As stated never switch your battery off while your engine is running. I run on my primary most of the time but never on both!
The reason I use a deep cycle cranking battery as my primary power source is that I run 2 vfh radios, 2 gps/chartplotters, 1 fishfinder, and a clairion radio underway.
http://home.earthlink.net/~bluewaterpirate/sitebuildercontent/ sitebuilderpictures/battery2.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~bluewaterpirate/sitebuildercontent/ sitebuilderpictures/battery1.jpg

JMARTIN posted 01-22-2006 03:46 PM ET (US)
OK, then where do I hook up my dowmrigger power cable so it does not have power when the battery is switched off?
John
bluewaterpirate posted 01-22-2006 07:07 PM ET (US)
You have 2 options both using a Blue Sea Fuse Block. You would connect the + wire of the fuse block to either:
1. The common + post on the battery switch “or”
2. Connect the + side of fuse buss to the + terminal of the 2 battery on the battery switch. If you connect the fuse buss to the 2 battery positive post on the battery switch the only time you’ll have power to the downrigger is when you’ve selected battery 2. The advantage of wiring the fuse buss into the common terminal on the battery switch is that u can add 5 other devises to the fuse bus.
Next connect the – side of the fuse buss to the ground buss bar of your boat. Use # 4 or # 6 tinned marine wire to connect the fuse buss to the battery switch and ground buss bar. Use # 4 or # 6 copper lug terminal connectors to attach the tinned # 4 or # 6 wires from the fuse buss to the battery switch and boats ground buss bar.
You can also wire your downrigger directly into the battery switch as above. Just make sure you have the appropriate in line fuse installed for the downrigger.
Fuse Buss
http://a1672.g.akamai.net/7/1672/116/20060101/www.ritzcamera.com/ graphics/boatersworld/products/196977474.jpg
Copper lug terminal connectors
http://www.jambrass.com/copper_lugs_copper_terminals.jpg
Installed Fuse Buss (right middle side of the picture).
http://home.earthlink.net/~bluewaterpirate/sitebuildercontent/ sitebuilderpictures/2006_0107standardinstall0013mod
Tom
bluewaterpirate posted 01-22-2006 10:19 PM ET (US)
Installed Fuse Buss picture correct link ......
http://home.earthlink.net/~bluewaterpirate/sitebuildercontent/ sitebuilderpictures/2006_0107standardinstall0013mod.jpg
Tom
JMARTIN posted 01-22-2006 11:28 PM ET (US)
Maybe I should explain that the boat has 1983 wiring. I do not have a commen buss ground bar. I just got the 4 way switch, 2 batteries, and a power source, like a bar behind the dash that has some switches hooked up like the lights. The electronics that I have put on are powered off this bar, and the Navman I jumped from the hour meter hot wire so I could not forget to turn it on. I am pretty sure the wire to this bar comes from the switch posistion that is not batt 1 or batt 2 but the one that has the wire that comes from the motor. These devices do not work of course in the off posistion, but will work in any other.
I have installed inline 30 amp fuses to the downrigger power lines. Unless I hook the power lines to the switch terminal that the line that comes from the motor hooks on to, my lines will be hot all the time. If I put it on the #2 switch, I have power to the unit regardless of where I put the switch, 1,2,both, and even off. Now remember, the motor is not running. In all cases, I am grounded to the battery, I have no other choice, and the grounds to the two batteries are jumped together with the black wire from the motor that is hooked to batt 2. My red wire from batt 2 goes to the batt 2 switch and the red on 1 goes to 1.
My batteries are the same. If I hook up like I mentioned above, to the power from the motor switch, then when I stop the motor, put the switch on batt 2, I will be using bat 2. If I put it in batt 1, thats what I would be using. Is this true?
All I know is I will have power all the time if I try to hook to the switch on any of the other terminals. It is 10 guage wire and I want as much poop from it as possible, so I do not want to hook to the bar beind the dash.
It is shocking how little I know about electricity. John
Fish Guy Keith posted 02-21-2006 02:13 PM ET (US)
Blue Water ..... that info was very helpful ...... but the pics in the link dont work ...... I could really use some pics as you said pictures are worth a thousand words.
Thanks
bluewaterpirate posted 02-21-2006 02:39 PM ET (US)
Fish Guy this will get u started, I'll get the other ones posted tonight ......
http://home.earthlink.net/~bluewaterpirate/sitebuildercontent/ sitebuilderpictures/2006_0107standardinstall0013mod.jpg
Fish Guy Keith posted 02-21-2006 02:50 PM ET (US)
Thanks Tom!
Its really appreciated!
I do have another queston ..... which it seems you've answered ...but heres what I want to do , I want to connect my electronic (VHF, sonar, GPS and accesories to the #2 battery .... but I want them to work even if the switch is # 1 or both , is the only way to do this is to connect them directly to battery #2 ?
Thanks alot for the help your giving!
Bulldog posted 02-21-2006 04:40 PM ET (US)
Matt, I am going to convert my twin engine Revenge to the "new" dual system pictured in the reference section. Jim did an outstanding job listing different ways to wire a dual battery systems and even has operating instructions and Pro/Cons for reach system.
Look in the Reference section, under "electrical",then under "dual battery"
Oh yeah, Great job JimH.........Jack
bluewaterpirate posted 02-21-2006 06:45 PM ET (US)
Fish Guy ......
Jacks right on the money about the diagrams ...... here are the pictures.
http://home.earthlink.net/~bluewaterpirate/sitebuildercontent/ sitebuilderpictures/battery1.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~bluewaterpirate/sitebuildercontent/ sitebuilderpictures/battery2.jpg
seahorse posted 02-21-2006 09:06 PM ET (US)
>>>This is confusing as my Perko has both positive and negative hookups for both batteries. <<<<<

I have never seen a Perko battery switch with hookups for the negative cable, only the positive cables. What is the model number of your switch?
Click on www.perko.com/Perko%20Catalog/105-120/lfbbs.pdf and scroll just past 1/2 way down and you will find the Perko battery switches and wiring diagrams for them.

jimh posted 02-21-2006 11:28 PM ET (US)
Tom--Is that a WING NUT on your battery? Oh, the horror...the horror...
Fish Guy Keith posted 02-21-2006 11:34 PM ET (US)
Hey thanks alot for all the help you guys. This weekend I'll get the dual battery system and all my new electronics installed in the new boat. If you are ever in the northwest give me a shout and we'll have to get out for some salmon!
superiorfisherman@yahoo.com
bluewaterpirate posted 02-22-2006 07:17 AM ET (US)
The wing nut is used as a lock nut on top of standard hex nut.
dino54904 posted 03-23-2006 09:55 PM ET (US)
Bluewaterpirate - in your photo it looks like you are using a combination of a series 22 and series 27 batteries. Am I seeing that correctly in the photo?
jimh posted 04-17-2006 09:34 PM ET (US)
[Removed divergent topic. I would have notified the author that his article had been removed but he did not provide an email address.]
jimh posted 04-23-2006 10:27 PM ET (US)
[Removed another divergent topic--please don't keep tacking on different questions to this discussion. And, if you want to receive the courtesy of being notified, try unmasking your email address.]
jimh posted 04-23-2006 10:28 PM ET (US)
[Thread closed--I am tired of having to edit this on a daily basis.]

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Author	Topic: PERKO "4 way" Switch
minitauk85	posted 01-11-2006 07:13 PM ET (US) I currently have a Perko switch on my 15 foot cc. It has 4 switch positions, off, 1, All, and 2. My starter battery is hooked to the #1 terminals. I would like to hook up a deep cell battery to the #2 terminals to use with a trolling motor. Is it as simple as just connecting the terminals? What position should the switch be in while running my outboard? 1,2, or "All"? I currently run it in the #1 position with just the starter battery, this allows the motor to charge the battery while in operation. Will hooking the deep cell to the #2 terminals and setting the switch to the "All" setting charge both batteries? Conversely if the switch is left in the "All" setting will it draw from and / or drain my deep cell? Would it be better to leave my deep cell out of the loop and charge it on a charger at home between fishing trips? Thanks in advance-k
Backlash	posted 01-12-2006 07:41 AM ET (US) Leaving the battery switch in the ALL position is not recommended when running the engine. The ALL position should only be used for emergency engine starting when both batteries are low and for switching between #1 and #2 batteries. If the switch is left in the ALL position with the engine running, the weaker battery will drain power from the stronger battery. I would hook the deep cycle to the #2 position on the switch with the trolling motor wired directly to the deep cycle battery. That way you can use the engine to charge the deep cycle when you are done trolling. You can always charge the deep cycle at home separately if necessary.
seahorse	posted 01-12-2006 08:41 AM ET (US) When you hook up a second battery, don't forget to include a 4 gauge or larger black cable to the starting battery, negative to negative. Run the red cable (positive) to the #2 switch terminal using at least the same size cable as the starting circuit uses.
acassidy	posted 01-20-2006 11:41 PM ET (US) Okay, the way I would run this is: Starting battery is on #1 and trolling/house battery is on #2. Start the boat only with it on #1. Leave it and let it charge while running only on #1 to recharge the battery back up (maybe 10 minutes), then move it over to #2 (or you could use Both but charges slower) to charge up the trolling battery. If you run your trolling battery down and then start on BOTH #1 battery will try to recharge #2 while it is trying to start the motor (which is bad). That is why you only start on #1. After stopping the motor switch to #2 and uses this for all boat electronics. Be careful not to turn switch to “off” while motor is running, even if intermittent while switching from 1, 2, both. Use BOTH to start only in emergencies. This is all from “Chapman” and I use this setup on my boat and it works great. They key is to hook everything up to the battery switch (motors, electronics, pumps) nothing directly to the batteries. Hope this helps
minitauk85	posted 01-21-2006 07:26 AM ET (US) Two questions: Seahorse - Why do you recommend hooking negatives together? This is confusing as my Perko has both positive and negative hookups for both batteries. What is the benefit? Acassidy- Where does the charge go when you put the switch to "Off" while the engine is running? What happens? Sorry! that's at least four questions!-k
swist	posted 01-21-2006 09:13 AM ET (US) Switching to off when the boat is running is bad for the alternator diodes. Don't do it. Even for a second. I always shut down before changing the battery switch position in any way. As has been stated, extensive use of BOTH is not a normal operating procedure; however, it is also depends on whether both batteries are the same type - in this case you could run on both for a while if both batteries need some charging. If you have different types (in particular different technologies like gel vs lead-acid), then you really want to avoid the "both" position unless for emergency starting.
placerville	posted 01-21-2006 12:57 PM ET (US) I'm part of the CW triad that just bought the 21' Revenge STRIKE3 with twin 70 hp Johnsons. None of us has owned a twin engined boat before. From what I've gathered, you have one perko on "1" and the other on "2" and except for emergency starting where you can have one on "both" just to start that engine. Otherwise, never the two shall meet. Any twin owners out there have another way they run it. Matt
bluewaterpirate	posted 01-21-2006 03:04 PM ET (US) Most boat manufacturer's wire single engine dual battery installations using a 4 position battery switch. Whaler uses a common buss ground bar located near the batteries and and engine terminal block(+/- wires are connected to this). The normal wiring configuration is as follows: # 1 battery is connected to position # 1 on the battery switch + to +. The - terminal on battery # 1 is connected to the - terminal on battery # 2 and and another ground cable is run from the - terminal on battery #1 to the a terminal on the common bus ground bar. # 2 battery is connected to the position # 2 on the baterry switch + to +. Remember that battery # 2 - terminal is jumpered to the - terminal on battery # 1). From the common positive connection on the battery switch runs 4 positive cable runs. One runs to the engine terminal block, one runs to a fuze block that distributes power to ur installed electronics, one runs to ur DC Main Fused Switch and the last services ur bilge pump. To complete the engine circuit - u run a cable from the - terminal on the common bus ground bar to the - terminal on the engine terminal block. All other - connections are connected to the remaining terminals on th bus ground bar to complete the circuits. A picture is worth a 1000 words. I use a deep cycle cranking battery as my primary and a cranking battery as my secondary starting source. As stated never switch your battery off while your engine is running. I run on my primary most of the time but never on both! The reason I use a deep cycle cranking battery as my primary power source is that I run 2 vfh radios, 2 gps/chartplotters, 1 fishfinder, and a clairion radio underway. http://home.earthlink.net/~bluewaterpirate/sitebuildercontent/ sitebuilderpictures/battery2.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~bluewaterpirate/sitebuildercontent/ sitebuilderpictures/battery1.jpg
JMARTIN	posted 01-22-2006 03:46 PM ET (US) OK, then where do I hook up my dowmrigger power cable so it does not have power when the battery is switched off? John
bluewaterpirate	posted 01-22-2006 07:07 PM ET (US) You have 2 options both using a Blue Sea Fuse Block. You would connect the + wire of the fuse block to either: 1. The common + post on the battery switch “or” 2. Connect the + side of fuse buss to the + terminal of the 2 battery on the battery switch. If you connect the fuse buss to the 2 battery positive post on the battery switch the only time you’ll have power to the downrigger is when you’ve selected battery 2. The advantage of wiring the fuse buss into the common terminal on the battery switch is that u can add 5 other devises to the fuse bus. Next connect the – side of the fuse buss to the ground buss bar of your boat. Use # 4 or # 6 tinned marine wire to connect the fuse buss to the battery switch and ground buss bar. Use # 4 or # 6 copper lug terminal connectors to attach the tinned # 4 or # 6 wires from the fuse buss to the battery switch and boats ground buss bar. You can also wire your downrigger directly into the battery switch as above. Just make sure you have the appropriate in line fuse installed for the downrigger. Fuse Buss http://a1672.g.akamai.net/7/1672/116/20060101/www.ritzcamera.com/ graphics/boatersworld/products/196977474.jpg Copper lug terminal connectors http://www.jambrass.com/copper_lugs_copper_terminals.jpg Installed Fuse Buss (right middle side of the picture). http://home.earthlink.net/~bluewaterpirate/sitebuildercontent/ sitebuilderpictures/2006_0107standardinstall0013mod Tom
bluewaterpirate	posted 01-22-2006 10:19 PM ET (US) Installed Fuse Buss picture correct link ...... http://home.earthlink.net/~bluewaterpirate/sitebuildercontent/ sitebuilderpictures/2006_0107standardinstall0013mod.jpg Tom
JMARTIN	posted 01-22-2006 11:28 PM ET (US) Maybe I should explain that the boat has 1983 wiring. I do not have a commen buss ground bar. I just got the 4 way switch, 2 batteries, and a power source, like a bar behind the dash that has some switches hooked up like the lights. The electronics that I have put on are powered off this bar, and the Navman I jumped from the hour meter hot wire so I could not forget to turn it on. I am pretty sure the wire to this bar comes from the switch posistion that is not batt 1 or batt 2 but the one that has the wire that comes from the motor. These devices do not work of course in the off posistion, but will work in any other. I have installed inline 30 amp fuses to the downrigger power lines. Unless I hook the power lines to the switch terminal that the line that comes from the motor hooks on to, my lines will be hot all the time. If I put it on the #2 switch, I have power to the unit regardless of where I put the switch, 1,2,both, and even off. Now remember, the motor is not running. In all cases, I am grounded to the battery, I have no other choice, and the grounds to the two batteries are jumped together with the black wire from the motor that is hooked to batt 2. My red wire from batt 2 goes to the batt 2 switch and the red on 1 goes to 1. My batteries are the same. If I hook up like I mentioned above, to the power from the motor switch, then when I stop the motor, put the switch on batt 2, I will be using bat 2. If I put it in batt 1, thats what I would be using. Is this true? All I know is I will have power all the time if I try to hook to the switch on any of the other terminals. It is 10 guage wire and I want as much poop from it as possible, so I do not want to hook to the bar beind the dash. It is shocking how little I know about electricity. John
Fish Guy Keith	posted 02-21-2006 02:13 PM ET (US) Blue Water ..... that info was very helpful ...... but the pics in the link dont work ...... I could really use some pics as you said pictures are worth a thousand words. Thanks
bluewaterpirate	posted 02-21-2006 02:39 PM ET (US) Fish Guy this will get u started, I'll get the other ones posted tonight ...... http://home.earthlink.net/~bluewaterpirate/sitebuildercontent/ sitebuilderpictures/2006_0107standardinstall0013mod.jpg
Fish Guy Keith	posted 02-21-2006 02:50 PM ET (US) Thanks Tom! Its really appreciated! I do have another queston ..... which it seems you've answered ...but heres what I want to do , I want to connect my electronic (VHF, sonar, GPS and accesories to the #2 battery .... but I want them to work even if the switch is # 1 or both , is the only way to do this is to connect them directly to battery #2 ? Thanks alot for the help your giving!
Bulldog	posted 02-21-2006 04:40 PM ET (US) Matt, I am going to convert my twin engine Revenge to the "new" dual system pictured in the reference section. Jim did an outstanding job listing different ways to wire a dual battery systems and even has operating instructions and Pro/Cons for reach system. Look in the Reference section, under "electrical",then under "dual battery" Oh yeah, Great job JimH.........Jack
bluewaterpirate	posted 02-21-2006 06:45 PM ET (US) Fish Guy ...... Jacks right on the money about the diagrams ...... here are the pictures. http://home.earthlink.net/~bluewaterpirate/sitebuildercontent/ sitebuilderpictures/battery1.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~bluewaterpirate/sitebuildercontent/ sitebuilderpictures/battery2.jpg
seahorse	posted 02-21-2006 09:06 PM ET (US) >>>This is confusing as my Perko has both positive and negative hookups for both batteries. <<<<< I have never seen a Perko battery switch with hookups for the negative cable, only the positive cables. What is the model number of your switch? Click on www.perko.com/Perko%20Catalog/105-120/lfbbs.pdf and scroll just past 1/2 way down and you will find the Perko battery switches and wiring diagrams for them.
jimh	posted 02-21-2006 11:28 PM ET (US) Tom--Is that a WING NUT on your battery? Oh, the horror...the horror...
Fish Guy Keith	posted 02-21-2006 11:34 PM ET (US) Hey thanks alot for all the help you guys. This weekend I'll get the dual battery system and all my new electronics installed in the new boat. If you are ever in the northwest give me a shout and we'll have to get out for some salmon! superiorfisherman@yahoo.com
bluewaterpirate	posted 02-22-2006 07:17 AM ET (US) The wing nut is used as a lock nut on top of standard hex nut.
dino54904	posted 03-23-2006 09:55 PM ET (US) Bluewaterpirate - in your photo it looks like you are using a combination of a series 22 and series 27 batteries. Am I seeing that correctly in the photo?
jimh	posted 04-17-2006 09:34 PM ET (US) [Removed divergent topic. I would have notified the author that his article had been removed but he did not provide an email address.]
jimh	posted 04-23-2006 10:27 PM ET (US) [Removed another divergent topic--please don't keep tacking on different questions to this discussion. And, if you want to receive the courtesy of being notified, try unmasking your email address.]
jimh	posted 04-23-2006 10:28 PM ET (US) [Thread closed--I am tired of having to edit this on a daily basis.]