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Author Topic:   Motor Does Not Crank With New Battery

oleblkjck posted 05-07-2007 10:43 PM ET (US)
I purchased a boat recently. The boat came with a 650 Mercury outboard motor that has lots of compression. I bought a new marine battery with 650-CCA rating. I attempted to turn the motor over but only received clicking noise from the [starter solenoid relay]. The starter never engaged. I tapped on starter while attempting to start a couple more times with same results. I was planning on buying a new starter for boat. I was told the problem may be battery isn't fully charged. Could this cause starter not to engage?
sail16 posted 05-07-2007 10:52 PM ET (US)
Yes-- an undercharged battery can cause that condition.
contender posted 05-07-2007 11:34 PM ET (US)
[C]heck you[r] connections first, then your cables, and then try jumping the battery from your auto. Sometimes new batteries have to be charged before [first] use.
oleblkjck posted 05-08-2007 12:09 AM ET (US)
Hey guys, Thanks for feedback. I plan on trying to jump from my vehicle tomorrow.
jimh posted 05-08-2007 01:03 AM ET (US)
In any battery operated electrical system, when there is trouble the first component to check is the battery.
I do not recommend jump starting. You can cause damage from sparking.
It is very common for low voltage connections to become corroded and stop conducting. I recommend you carefully check all the connections in the circuit between the battery and the motor. There are many connections and connectors. Even the slightest resistance will prevent starting due to the voltage drop.
oleblkjck posted 05-08-2007 04:00 AM ET (US)
[W]hat harm, if any, could arise if I used a fully charged battery from my auto to start boat motor?
HAPPYJIM posted 05-08-2007 05:39 AM ET (US)
Take the new battery back to where you bought it and have a capacity check done on it. They will put it under a load and test it's performance. New batteries sometimes fail this test.
jimh posted 05-08-2007 08:30 AM ET (US)
I do not recommend jump starting. You can cause damage from sparking.
Monitor the battery voltage during cranking. This will tell you if the battery is providing enough voltage. It is much easier to make a few measurements with a voltmeter than it is to haul a new battery to the boat. Or, just charge the new battery for a day or two until you are certain it has sufficient charge.
Chuck Tribolet posted 05-08-2007 10:10 PM ET (US)
How can jump starting cause damage from sparking?

Chuck, who has jumper cables in the car, the truck, AND the boat.
jimh posted 05-08-2007 10:30 PM ET (US)
Damage is caused when the PIV of a diode is exceeded and the PN junction fails.
Chuck Tribolet posted 05-09-2007 12:26 AM ET (US)
How is the jump
starting going to exceed the PIV of the diodes?
12V is 12V is 12V (well, 13.8V is ...).

Chuck
HAPPYJIM posted 05-09-2007 01:55 AM ET (US)
Temperature and age come in to play also. Something electrical causes it and it's always the fault of the junction.
oleblkjck posted 05-09-2007 11:59 AM ET (US)
I had the battery checked out and was low. Bought a new one and same problem as before. Solenoid clicks but starter is dormant. I used pull cord and moter fires. Think it may be starter..
jimh posted 05-09-2007 01:53 PM ET (US)
Inductive loads can easily generate voltages higher than the source when the current is interrupted.
alfa posted 05-09-2007 01:59 PM ET (US)
Mmmmm,
Yes, check it. Something is wrong with starter/solenoid.
Alain
Chuck Tribolet posted 05-09-2007 03:41 PM ET (US)
But once the motor starts, the alternator is putting out 13.8V
so there's no interruption of the current through the inductive
loads. And there aren't any huge inductors when the engine
is just sitting there not started.
And the PIV of those diodes better be pretty good.
Ever put a scope on "12V" when a big V8 starts? It goes
way up briefly, but that's the voltage regulator which has saturated
the windings on the alternator trying to pull up the voltage
during cranking. You can make your lights last a lot longer
by turning them off while starting, then back on. Compared
to that spike, I'm not worried about jump starts.

Chuck
contender posted 05-09-2007 05:18 PM ET (US)
You could pull start it.
jimh posted 05-10-2007 01:55 AM ET (US)
There is no problem in starting a engine with a second battery in parallel with the primary battery. The problem arises from voltage transients which can occur when there is sparking. Sparking represents a momentary connection and disconnection. Most jumper cables have poor quality connectors and are prone to sparking. My personal experience with jump starting in which there is sparking in the connections is that it leads to problems in the charging system, often damaged diodes. Most charging systems warn that you must not disconnect the battery while the charging system is operating. Sparking represents a momentary disconnection of the battery.
Everyone is free to follow their own precepts and preferences with regard to jump starting. My recommendations are not binding.
My recommendation to the fellow with the engine that does not crank with a new battery is still the same. Investigate the battery first, then check all connections. And monitor the voltage during cranking.
Chuck--if you would like to engage in a technical discussion of engine starting with jumper cables that spark like crazy, please start a new thread and I will be glad to explain my thinking on why I do not recommend that procedure.
Crabby Mike posted 05-13-2007 05:37 PM ET (US)
The battery could be fine. Check that the battery cables aren't corroded. Take a knife and split the insulation for about 4 inches from the lug. If there is any green, replace the entire cable. Don't ask how I know :-)
Mike
jimh posted 05-13-2007 10:01 PM ET (US)
A check of the battery voltage with an accurate voltmeter would tell a lot about the battery. As far as we can tell so far, the reason the engine starter does not crank is because the battery voltage is low. We're only on DAY EIGHT and we don't have the most basic and fundamental information necessary to help.
oleblkjck posted 05-24-2007 11:04 PM ET (US)
Sorry for not responding to everyone. I took starter off motor and opened it up. Turning it upside down caused a substancial amount of white powder to spill out. I tapped on the casing several times to empty removing more powder. I reassembled starter and hooked cables from car to starter. Starter started to spin like new. Put back on motor and connected to marine battery. Turned key and motor turned over. Thanks for all the help.

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Author	Topic: Motor Does Not Crank With New Battery
oleblkjck	posted 05-07-2007 10:43 PM ET (US) I purchased a boat recently. The boat came with a 650 Mercury outboard motor that has lots of compression. I bought a new marine battery with 650-CCA rating. I attempted to turn the motor over but only received clicking noise from the [starter solenoid relay]. The starter never engaged. I tapped on starter while attempting to start a couple more times with same results. I was planning on buying a new starter for boat. I was told the problem may be battery isn't fully charged. Could this cause starter not to engage?
sail16	posted 05-07-2007 10:52 PM ET (US) Yes-- an undercharged battery can cause that condition.
contender	posted 05-07-2007 11:34 PM ET (US) [C]heck you[r] connections first, then your cables, and then try jumping the battery from your auto. Sometimes new batteries have to be charged before [first] use.
oleblkjck	posted 05-08-2007 12:09 AM ET (US) Hey guys, Thanks for feedback. I plan on trying to jump from my vehicle tomorrow.
jimh	posted 05-08-2007 01:03 AM ET (US) In any battery operated electrical system, when there is trouble the first component to check is the battery. I do not recommend jump starting. You can cause damage from sparking. It is very common for low voltage connections to become corroded and stop conducting. I recommend you carefully check all the connections in the circuit between the battery and the motor. There are many connections and connectors. Even the slightest resistance will prevent starting due to the voltage drop.
oleblkjck	posted 05-08-2007 04:00 AM ET (US) [W]hat harm, if any, could arise if I used a fully charged battery from my auto to start boat motor?
HAPPYJIM	posted 05-08-2007 05:39 AM ET (US) Take the new battery back to where you bought it and have a capacity check done on it. They will put it under a load and test it's performance. New batteries sometimes fail this test.
jimh	posted 05-08-2007 08:30 AM ET (US) I do not recommend jump starting. You can cause damage from sparking. Monitor the battery voltage during cranking. This will tell you if the battery is providing enough voltage. It is much easier to make a few measurements with a voltmeter than it is to haul a new battery to the boat. Or, just charge the new battery for a day or two until you are certain it has sufficient charge.
Chuck Tribolet	posted 05-08-2007 10:10 PM ET (US) How can jump starting cause damage from sparking? Chuck, who has jumper cables in the car, the truck, AND the boat.
jimh	posted 05-08-2007 10:30 PM ET (US) Damage is caused when the PIV of a diode is exceeded and the PN junction fails.
Chuck Tribolet	posted 05-09-2007 12:26 AM ET (US) How is the jump starting going to exceed the PIV of the diodes? 12V is 12V is 12V (well, 13.8V is ...). Chuck
HAPPYJIM	posted 05-09-2007 01:55 AM ET (US) Temperature and age come in to play also. Something electrical causes it and it's always the fault of the junction.
oleblkjck	posted 05-09-2007 11:59 AM ET (US) I had the battery checked out and was low. Bought a new one and same problem as before. Solenoid clicks but starter is dormant. I used pull cord and moter fires. Think it may be starter..
jimh	posted 05-09-2007 01:53 PM ET (US) Inductive loads can easily generate voltages higher than the source when the current is interrupted.
alfa	posted 05-09-2007 01:59 PM ET (US) Mmmmm, Yes, check it. Something is wrong with starter/solenoid. Alain
Chuck Tribolet	posted 05-09-2007 03:41 PM ET (US) But once the motor starts, the alternator is putting out 13.8V so there's no interruption of the current through the inductive loads. And there aren't any huge inductors when the engine is just sitting there not started. And the PIV of those diodes better be pretty good. Ever put a scope on "12V" when a big V8 starts? It goes way up briefly, but that's the voltage regulator which has saturated the windings on the alternator trying to pull up the voltage during cranking. You can make your lights last a lot longer by turning them off while starting, then back on. Compared to that spike, I'm not worried about jump starts. Chuck
contender	posted 05-09-2007 05:18 PM ET (US) You could pull start it.
jimh	posted 05-10-2007 01:55 AM ET (US) There is no problem in starting a engine with a second battery in parallel with the primary battery. The problem arises from voltage transients which can occur when there is sparking. Sparking represents a momentary connection and disconnection. Most jumper cables have poor quality connectors and are prone to sparking. My personal experience with jump starting in which there is sparking in the connections is that it leads to problems in the charging system, often damaged diodes. Most charging systems warn that you must not disconnect the battery while the charging system is operating. Sparking represents a momentary disconnection of the battery. Everyone is free to follow their own precepts and preferences with regard to jump starting. My recommendations are not binding. My recommendation to the fellow with the engine that does not crank with a new battery is still the same. Investigate the battery first, then check all connections. And monitor the voltage during cranking. Chuck--if you would like to engage in a technical discussion of engine starting with jumper cables that spark like crazy, please start a new thread and I will be glad to explain my thinking on why I do not recommend that procedure.
Crabby Mike	posted 05-13-2007 05:37 PM ET (US) The battery could be fine. Check that the battery cables aren't corroded. Take a knife and split the insulation for about 4 inches from the lug. If there is any green, replace the entire cable. Don't ask how I know :-) Mike
jimh	posted 05-13-2007 10:01 PM ET (US) A check of the battery voltage with an accurate voltmeter would tell a lot about the battery. As far as we can tell so far, the reason the engine starter does not crank is because the battery voltage is low. We're only on DAY EIGHT and we don't have the most basic and fundamental information necessary to help.
oleblkjck	posted 05-24-2007 11:04 PM ET (US) Sorry for not responding to everyone. I took starter off motor and opened it up. Turning it upside down caused a substancial amount of white powder to spill out. I tapped on the casing several times to empty removing more powder. I reassembled starter and hooked cables from car to starter. Starter started to spin like new. Put back on motor and connected to marine battery. Turned key and motor turned over. Thanks for all the help.