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Author Topic:   2002 FICHT V4 Won't Crank

brillwills posted 08-05-2008 12:32 PM ET (US)
[My] 2002 FICHT 90 V4 runs great revs to the limit and is a great all round engine until you stop it; after that it is dead! Won't crank, wont do any thing. [I] had it in to several dealers who all gave it a clean bill of health. Finally a dealer has told me [the problem is in] the EMM, and I need to buy another for £1000 and fitting--let's say a cool $2,500. Oh, and I am in the [UK] so parts take an eternity and cost a fortune. Any ideas?
paul from Conwy North Wales UK
gcl posted 08-05-2008 12:57 PM ET (US)
DFI Technologies of USA reconditioned/rebuilt the EMM for my 1999, 90 hp Ficht. The transaction/interaction occured via telephone and standard delivery service. Very easy and resonably price (about $500). The engine has been running strong since the repair (two years). Goggle for their website, then give them a telephone call

jimh posted 08-06-2008 08:26 AM ET (US)
For help diagnosing and troubleshooting electrical problems involving the starter motor circuit, see
Electric Starting Circuits
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/electricStart.html
I cannot imagine that the engine management module and its microprocessor would play any role in the electric starting circuit.
seahorse posted 08-06-2008 08:36 AM ET (US)

quote:
...and is a great all round engine untill you stop it that is, after that its dead! wont crank , wont do any thing had it in to several dealers , who all gave it a clean bill of health

When you say that it won't crank, do you mean that the starter will not engage and turn the motor over? If this is the case, have you tried jumping the starter solenoid to see if the starter works then? There is also a small black square starter relay on the motor that activates the main starter solenoid.
Or do you mean that the starter is turning the flywheel and the motor will not fire up? If this is the problem, then, yes, the EMM could be faulty and you can contact www.dfitechnologies.com for repair info.
Plotman posted 08-06-2008 09:19 AM ET (US)
How do you start it the first time in order to know it runs well before you stop it?
Are you sure that your neutral safety switch is working properly (the switch that only lets you start if you are out of gear).
brillwills posted 08-06-2008 09:57 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the responses hope this covers some of your queries
when the engine 1st played up , i first thought it may be the Neutral position switch located in the throttle gear shift unit and stripped it down and shorted it to take it out of the circuit this proved not to be the problem, removing the cover and checking the wires for any obvious signs of cables being loose or disconnected , then moved on to trying the screwdriver across the solenoid terminals to see if it was a problem with the starter circuit, the engine spun over fine but did not start at this point i decided to return it to the dealer who "Serviced" the engine, whilst I was there they put the engine in a tank and fired her up instantly ,hooked up the Laptop which gave her a clean bill of health, took her back put it in the water and had an hours running then stopped her ,again it had fallen into a Coma! returned to dealer they found that the laptop didnt even recognise the engine was connected, they said there was nothing they could do!!
Took it to another dealer and they have run it up ,, fired up 1st time! Laptop gave 100% on all systems , then they switched it off and lo and behold dead? they said it was definately EMM (How they diagnosed it I dont know)
Thanks for all your replys Paul
brillwills posted 08-06-2008 11:21 AM ET (US)
PS
The only item that had been changed prior to this outbreak of death in the outboard was the installation of a "Gel Battery" but has plenty of charge and lifts the power trim and all other bits n pieces
Paul
seahorse posted 08-06-2008 06:39 PM ET (US)
the EMM plays a part in the starting circuit on the FICHT in question. It supplies the ground circuit for the primary starter relay located on the back of the motor. It is called the delay relay and the momentary lag from when the primary relay activates the main starter solenoid is used by the EMM to sense the ambient barometric pressure before the exhaust backpressure from cranking and starting registers.
Another symptom of a bad or intermittent EMM is not being able to connect to the laptop and transmit information.
seahorse posted 08-06-2008 06:43 PM ET (US)

quote:
The only item that had been changed prior to this outbreak of death in the outboard was the installation of a "Gel Battery" but has plenty of charge and lifts the power trim and all other bits n pieces
Were the battery cables installed backwards, even for a moment?
Are the cables secured by locknuts and lockwashers tightened with a wrench, or by wing-nuts tightened by hand?
brillwills posted 08-06-2008 07:36 PM ET (US)
seahorse you really are good. [The battery connections are] secured by wrench (spanner). It is not the cash that is bothering me about replacing the EMM; it is the waste of time. I think something else is knackering up this otherwise great engine.
[The battery cables] were placed on the right terminals straight-off. I did it myself!
jimh posted 08-06-2008 07:41 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the information about the unusual involvement of the engine management module (EMM) in the engine starting circuit of the Evinrude FICHT engine. I had no idea that the engine starting was influenced by the EMM. That is very excellent and detailed information to have. Thanks again.
seahorse posted 08-06-2008 07:46 PM ET (US)

I had no idea that the engine starting was influenced by the EMM. That is very excellent and detailed information to have

Jim,
The E-TEC EMM is also part of the starting circuit, though configured differently than the FICHTs.
jimh posted 08-06-2008 08:08 PM ET (US)
I have updated the REFERENCE article on diagnosis of engine starting problems to include the information presented above in which the solenoid coil circuit passes through the EMM on the FICHT and E-TEC motors.
brillwills posted 08-09-2008 09:05 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the pointer to get my Ficht EMM repaired at DFI
What should I watch out for removing and refitting [the EMM]? [The procedure] looks like a swap-in and swap-out sort of job, but, knowing my luck, there'll be an auto-destruct button that [I will] come across and [I will] just have to press. Thanks for any help
Paul in WALES, UK
jimh posted 08-09-2008 11:41 AM ET (US)
I would take the usual and prudent precautions against electro-static discharge when handing any microprocessor-based engine electronics.
seahorse posted 08-09-2008 01:06 PM ET (US)

quote:
What should I watch out for removing and refitting [the EMM]? [The procedure] looks like a swap-in and swap-out sort of job, but, knowing my luck, there'll be an auto-destruct button that [I will] come across and [I will] just have to press. Thanks for any help
After installing the repaired EMM, you must set the timing pointer to be accurate at TDC per the factory service manual procedure. You will then have to set the timing on the motor to synchonize with the timing inside the EMM. The procedure is in the service manual, plus you will need a laptop and the diagnostic software to do this.
If you can't, then find a trained tech who can do it for you. It doesn't take long so the cost should be minimal.
brillwills posted 08-09-2008 05:06 PM ET (US)
Thankyou all for your help, very much appreciated , and look forward to posting as successful fix !
Paul (Wales UK)

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Author	Topic: 2002 FICHT V4 Won't Crank
brillwills	posted 08-05-2008 12:32 PM ET (US) [My] 2002 FICHT 90 V4 runs great revs to the limit and is a great all round engine until you stop it; after that it is dead! Won't crank, wont do any thing. [I] had it in to several dealers who all gave it a clean bill of health. Finally a dealer has told me [the problem is in] the EMM, and I need to buy another for £1000 and fitting--let's say a cool $2,500. Oh, and I am in the [UK] so parts take an eternity and cost a fortune. Any ideas? paul from Conwy North Wales UK
gcl	posted 08-05-2008 12:57 PM ET (US) DFI Technologies of USA reconditioned/rebuilt the EMM for my 1999, 90 hp Ficht. The transaction/interaction occured via telephone and standard delivery service. Very easy and resonably price (about $500). The engine has been running strong since the repair (two years). Goggle for their website, then give them a telephone call
jimh	posted 08-06-2008 08:26 AM ET (US) For help diagnosing and troubleshooting electrical problems involving the starter motor circuit, see Electric Starting Circuits http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/electricStart.html I cannot imagine that the engine management module and its microprocessor would play any role in the electric starting circuit.
seahorse	posted 08-06-2008 08:36 AM ET (US) quote: ...and is a great all round engine untill you stop it that is, after that its dead! wont crank , wont do any thing had it in to several dealers , who all gave it a clean bill of health When you say that it won't crank, do you mean that the starter will not engage and turn the motor over? If this is the case, have you tried jumping the starter solenoid to see if the starter works then? There is also a small black square starter relay on the motor that activates the main starter solenoid. Or do you mean that the starter is turning the flywheel and the motor will not fire up? If this is the problem, then, yes, the EMM could be faulty and you can contact www.dfitechnologies.com for repair info.
Plotman	posted 08-06-2008 09:19 AM ET (US) How do you start it the first time in order to know it runs well before you stop it? Are you sure that your neutral safety switch is working properly (the switch that only lets you start if you are out of gear).
brillwills	posted 08-06-2008 09:57 AM ET (US) Thanks for the responses hope this covers some of your queries when the engine 1st played up , i first thought it may be the Neutral position switch located in the throttle gear shift unit and stripped it down and shorted it to take it out of the circuit this proved not to be the problem, removing the cover and checking the wires for any obvious signs of cables being loose or disconnected , then moved on to trying the screwdriver across the solenoid terminals to see if it was a problem with the starter circuit, the engine spun over fine but did not start at this point i decided to return it to the dealer who "Serviced" the engine, whilst I was there they put the engine in a tank and fired her up instantly ,hooked up the Laptop which gave her a clean bill of health, took her back put it in the water and had an hours running then stopped her ,again it had fallen into a Coma! returned to dealer they found that the laptop didnt even recognise the engine was connected, they said there was nothing they could do!! Took it to another dealer and they have run it up ,, fired up 1st time! Laptop gave 100% on all systems , then they switched it off and lo and behold dead? they said it was definately EMM (How they diagnosed it I dont know) Thanks for all your replys Paul
brillwills	posted 08-06-2008 11:21 AM ET (US) PS The only item that had been changed prior to this outbreak of death in the outboard was the installation of a "Gel Battery" but has plenty of charge and lifts the power trim and all other bits n pieces Paul
seahorse	posted 08-06-2008 06:39 PM ET (US) the EMM plays a part in the starting circuit on the FICHT in question. It supplies the ground circuit for the primary starter relay located on the back of the motor. It is called the delay relay and the momentary lag from when the primary relay activates the main starter solenoid is used by the EMM to sense the ambient barometric pressure before the exhaust backpressure from cranking and starting registers. Another symptom of a bad or intermittent EMM is not being able to connect to the laptop and transmit information.
seahorse	posted 08-06-2008 06:43 PM ET (US) quote: The only item that had been changed prior to this outbreak of death in the outboard was the installation of a "Gel Battery" but has plenty of charge and lifts the power trim and all other bits n pieces Were the battery cables installed backwards, even for a moment? Are the cables secured by locknuts and lockwashers tightened with a wrench, or by wing-nuts tightened by hand?
brillwills	posted 08-06-2008 07:36 PM ET (US) seahorse you really are good. [The battery connections are] secured by wrench (spanner). It is not the cash that is bothering me about replacing the EMM; it is the waste of time. I think something else is knackering up this otherwise great engine. [The battery cables] were placed on the right terminals straight-off. I did it myself!
jimh	posted 08-06-2008 07:41 PM ET (US) Thanks for the information about the unusual involvement of the engine management module (EMM) in the engine starting circuit of the Evinrude FICHT engine. I had no idea that the engine starting was influenced by the EMM. That is very excellent and detailed information to have. Thanks again.
seahorse	posted 08-06-2008 07:46 PM ET (US) I had no idea that the engine starting was influenced by the EMM. That is very excellent and detailed information to have Jim, The E-TEC EMM is also part of the starting circuit, though configured differently than the FICHTs.
jimh	posted 08-06-2008 08:08 PM ET (US) I have updated the REFERENCE article on diagnosis of engine starting problems to include the information presented above in which the solenoid coil circuit passes through the EMM on the FICHT and E-TEC motors.
brillwills	posted 08-09-2008 09:05 AM ET (US) Thanks for the pointer to get my Ficht EMM repaired at DFI What should I watch out for removing and refitting [the EMM]? [The procedure] looks like a swap-in and swap-out sort of job, but, knowing my luck, there'll be an auto-destruct button that [I will] come across and [I will] just have to press. Thanks for any help Paul in WALES, UK
jimh	posted 08-09-2008 11:41 AM ET (US) I would take the usual and prudent precautions against electro-static discharge when handing any microprocessor-based engine electronics.
seahorse	posted 08-09-2008 01:06 PM ET (US) quote: What should I watch out for removing and refitting [the EMM]? [The procedure] looks like a swap-in and swap-out sort of job, but, knowing my luck, there'll be an auto-destruct button that [I will] come across and [I will] just have to press. Thanks for any help After installing the repaired EMM, you must set the timing pointer to be accurate at TDC per the factory service manual procedure. You will then have to set the timing on the motor to synchonize with the timing inside the EMM. The procedure is in the service manual, plus you will need a laptop and the diagnostic software to do this. If you can't, then find a trained tech who can do it for you. It doesn't take long so the cost should be minimal.
brillwills	posted 08-09-2008 05:06 PM ET (US) Thankyou all for your help, very much appreciated , and look forward to posting as successful fix ! Paul (Wales UK)