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Author Topic:   Tilt-Trim Gauge Not Working

Smithsm posted 05-18-2009 03:10 PM ET (US)
I just bought a 1998 Outrage 20 with a c.1999 FICHT 225. All electrical functions work exept the tilt and trim gauge. Is there any secret to checking these out other than just checking the connections ?
I am moderate to low on electrical stuff - but will give it a try if I have an idea of what I am doing. I have meters.
Any advice or comments are appreciated.
jimh posted 05-18-2009 05:56 PM ET (US)
I show a schematic diagram with annotations of the trim gauge circuit used with most OMC or BRP motors in
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/002089.html
This gives enough information for electrical troubleshooting by a competent technician.
If you want a step-by-step procedure for a non-technical person to follow, I think there is one provided in the service manual for your engine. Most OEM service manuals are written with the assumption that the service technician understands nothing about electricity, and they provide procedures that assume very little knowledge on the part of the service technician about the behavior of electrical devices.
Smithsm posted 05-18-2009 08:32 PM ET (US)
[Thanks] much. I am semi competent and can certainly follow a trouble shooting guide. I will get the manual. I tried to buy it today at the dealership but they didn't have it. I am going to try some on-line sources including eBay.
jimh posted 05-18-2009 10:13 PM ET (US)
If you have a reliable voltmeter, check the terminals at the meter as follows:
Hook meter negative to the G terminal.
With meter positive, measure voltage at other terminals a follows:
I = should be at battery positive or close to it, about 12.5 volts
S = should have voltage, but lower than 12-volts, perhaps just a volt or so.

Disconnect the WHITE/TAN lead from the S terminal. Change meter to resistance. Measure resistance of WHITE/TAN to G terminal. Should be 50 ohms or so. Tilt motor and see if it changes.
newt posted 05-19-2009 12:46 PM ET (US)
Before you go and spend an hour troubleshooting connections, power supply and relays, try tapping the trim motor with a hammer - it may just solve your problem. I was in your shoes last season and even spent a day on the water running with one engine stuck tilted up. When I got home that night, I followed the entire trouble shooting procedure in my factory manual (about 45 minutes) and couldn't find the problem. A quick internet search in desperation found the hammer suggestion - and it worked.
jimh posted 05-19-2009 02:12 PM ET (US)
I believe the motor is tilting, just the gauge isn't reading. But electrical motors with brushes can often be cajoled into working again with a little jolt, especially low-voltage motors like a 12-VDC motor. At 12-VDC it does not take much insulation to stop current flow.
westcoastwhaler posted 05-19-2009 03:07 PM ET (US)
Before you start checking electrical, it may be mechanical. Check the sending unit that is mounted inside the engine bracket, aft of the transom. On my 1988 70HP Johnson it is a spring clip that is located on the port side of the engine. I had the exact problem and it was stuck in the down position.
It could be that the sending unit is stuck in position due to corrosion or a foreign object.
To check, light up the gauges (not the engine) and move the sending unit up and down and see if the trim gauge moves.
newt posted 05-19-2009 04:28 PM ET (US)
My bad. Disregard the hammer advice as it certainly won't help the trim gauge.
Smithsm posted 05-21-2009 08:03 AM ET (US)
JimH is correct - the motor is tilting but the guage is not working.
Before I go into full blown trouble shooting mode I plan to remove all electrical connections, wire brush them, put some electric goo on them to increase connectivity and prevent future corrosion, and see if that helps.
jimh posted 05-21-2009 09:16 AM ET (US)
Don't use a wire brush on electrical connections. Don't put "goo" on them, either.
Many electrical connections are silver plated. Oxides of silver are conductive. Below the silver is copper. Oxides of copper are not conductive. You don't want to remove the silver plating with a wire brush to end up with the copper exposed.
If terminals are dirty or badly corroded you should clean them as much as possible with an appropriate solvent. If you have to remove a top layer of corrosion use a very mild abrasive. A wire brush is too coarse. The resistance of the connection depends on how much surface area is in contact. Forming small grooves with a wire brush will just reduce the surface area and create little places for new corrosion to form.
Electrical current flows through the conductors, not through any "goo" you put on them. In certain instances it is reasonable to apply a grease to an electrical connection after it has been made or tightened, to help keep water away from the connection. The grease is called a di-electric grease because it does not conduct electricity and can withstand a lot of voltage without conducting. The grease does not alter the connectivity of the conductors, it just keeps water out of them.
Smithsm posted 05-21-2009 12:03 PM ET (US)
JimH--[Thanks] again. I thought it would increase my connectivity but in fact it is hurting me. [Sounds] like I need to go wipe it off the connections.
Smithsm posted 05-21-2009 12:08 PM ET (US)
[Can] I buy a CONDUCTIVE grease ?
swist posted 05-21-2009 05:14 PM ET (US)
I would wager that 95% of all trim indication malfunctions are sender-related. They are usually located in a very exposed area which may never dry out. Many rely on the engine frame for the return feed, and the mounting screws loosen and or corrode easily, thus also compromising the electrical path. And as someone pointed out, many use a spring loaded system to return to either full down or full up, depending on the design. These are often small springs and the whole thing is mickey-mouse if you ask me.
jimh posted 05-21-2009 05:34 PM ET (US)
Electrical supplier BURNDY makes a product called Penetrox. Penetrox is a thick conductive grease designed for use on electrical connections, usually high-current connections.
westcoastwhaler posted 05-22-2009 12:57 AM ET (US)
Have you checked the sending unit?
Newtauk1 posted 05-22-2009 08:35 AM ET (US)
jimh,
Thanks for the info regarding oxides of silver and copper. I did not know that. I have used abrasive devices to clean up connectors in the past removing the tinned materials in some cases. I will change my process in the future.
NT1
My money is in the sending unit.
Newtauk1 posted 05-22-2009 08:51 AM ET (US)
ps. the mechanical sending unit on my 2001 75hp Mercury failed last season. The unit had corroded on the trim bracket. Easy replacement. Poorly constructed.I am surpised it last as long as it did.
Bigfish18 posted 05-23-2009 09:11 PM ET (US)
[Changed TOPIC to something completely unrelated. Begin a new thread to change the topic. Move to a different area to discuss topics not related to SMALL BOAT ELECTRICAL topics.--jimh.]
Newtauk1 posted 05-24-2009 03:02 AM ET (US)
Bigfish18,
welcome to the site. it would work better if you started a new topic under the REPAIRS/MOD section rather than jumping into another topic thread.
Smithsm posted 06-17-2009 09:06 AM ET (US)
Well what do you know - the trim tab guage is working but is way out of calibration - meaning that it does not begin to register on the needle guage until the motor is pretty far up.
so "level"on the needle guage is the motor way, way up - almost out of the water
has anyone ever seen this before ?
it seems like I just need to make a calibration adjustment
jimh posted 06-17-2009 01:51 PM ET (US)
If the TRIM gauge and the sender are matched to each other, the calibration adjustment generally is limited to a mechanical change in position of the sender relative to the outboard motor.
If the TRIM gauge and the sender are not matched to each other, you might see the effect as a change in the dial calibration. Usually the sender resistance and the meter configuration have to be designed to work with each other. I do not think there are universal values for these components in the circuit.

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Author	Topic: Tilt-Trim Gauge Not Working
Smithsm	posted 05-18-2009 03:10 PM ET (US) I just bought a 1998 Outrage 20 with a c.1999 FICHT 225. All electrical functions work exept the tilt and trim gauge. Is there any secret to checking these out other than just checking the connections ? I am moderate to low on electrical stuff - but will give it a try if I have an idea of what I am doing. I have meters. Any advice or comments are appreciated.
jimh	posted 05-18-2009 05:56 PM ET (US) I show a schematic diagram with annotations of the trim gauge circuit used with most OMC or BRP motors in http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/002089.html This gives enough information for electrical troubleshooting by a competent technician. If you want a step-by-step procedure for a non-technical person to follow, I think there is one provided in the service manual for your engine. Most OEM service manuals are written with the assumption that the service technician understands nothing about electricity, and they provide procedures that assume very little knowledge on the part of the service technician about the behavior of electrical devices.
Smithsm	posted 05-18-2009 08:32 PM ET (US) [Thanks] much. I am semi competent and can certainly follow a trouble shooting guide. I will get the manual. I tried to buy it today at the dealership but they didn't have it. I am going to try some on-line sources including eBay.
jimh	posted 05-18-2009 10:13 PM ET (US) If you have a reliable voltmeter, check the terminals at the meter as follows: Hook meter negative to the G terminal. With meter positive, measure voltage at other terminals a follows: I = should be at battery positive or close to it, about 12.5 volts S = should have voltage, but lower than 12-volts, perhaps just a volt or so. Disconnect the WHITE/TAN lead from the S terminal. Change meter to resistance. Measure resistance of WHITE/TAN to G terminal. Should be 50 ohms or so. Tilt motor and see if it changes.
newt	posted 05-19-2009 12:46 PM ET (US) Before you go and spend an hour troubleshooting connections, power supply and relays, try tapping the trim motor with a hammer - it may just solve your problem. I was in your shoes last season and even spent a day on the water running with one engine stuck tilted up. When I got home that night, I followed the entire trouble shooting procedure in my factory manual (about 45 minutes) and couldn't find the problem. A quick internet search in desperation found the hammer suggestion - and it worked.
jimh	posted 05-19-2009 02:12 PM ET (US) I believe the motor is tilting, just the gauge isn't reading. But electrical motors with brushes can often be cajoled into working again with a little jolt, especially low-voltage motors like a 12-VDC motor. At 12-VDC it does not take much insulation to stop current flow.
westcoastwhaler	posted 05-19-2009 03:07 PM ET (US) Before you start checking electrical, it may be mechanical. Check the sending unit that is mounted inside the engine bracket, aft of the transom. On my 1988 70HP Johnson it is a spring clip that is located on the port side of the engine. I had the exact problem and it was stuck in the down position. It could be that the sending unit is stuck in position due to corrosion or a foreign object. To check, light up the gauges (not the engine) and move the sending unit up and down and see if the trim gauge moves.
newt	posted 05-19-2009 04:28 PM ET (US) My bad. Disregard the hammer advice as it certainly won't help the trim gauge.
Smithsm	posted 05-21-2009 08:03 AM ET (US) JimH is correct - the motor is tilting but the guage is not working. Before I go into full blown trouble shooting mode I plan to remove all electrical connections, wire brush them, put some electric goo on them to increase connectivity and prevent future corrosion, and see if that helps.
jimh	posted 05-21-2009 09:16 AM ET (US) Don't use a wire brush on electrical connections. Don't put "goo" on them, either. Many electrical connections are silver plated. Oxides of silver are conductive. Below the silver is copper. Oxides of copper are not conductive. You don't want to remove the silver plating with a wire brush to end up with the copper exposed. If terminals are dirty or badly corroded you should clean them as much as possible with an appropriate solvent. If you have to remove a top layer of corrosion use a very mild abrasive. A wire brush is too coarse. The resistance of the connection depends on how much surface area is in contact. Forming small grooves with a wire brush will just reduce the surface area and create little places for new corrosion to form. Electrical current flows through the conductors, not through any "goo" you put on them. In certain instances it is reasonable to apply a grease to an electrical connection after it has been made or tightened, to help keep water away from the connection. The grease is called a di-electric grease because it does not conduct electricity and can withstand a lot of voltage without conducting. The grease does not alter the connectivity of the conductors, it just keeps water out of them.
Smithsm	posted 05-21-2009 12:03 PM ET (US) JimH--[Thanks] again. I thought it would increase my connectivity but in fact it is hurting me. [Sounds] like I need to go wipe it off the connections.
Smithsm	posted 05-21-2009 12:08 PM ET (US) [Can] I buy a CONDUCTIVE grease ?
swist	posted 05-21-2009 05:14 PM ET (US) I would wager that 95% of all trim indication malfunctions are sender-related. They are usually located in a very exposed area which may never dry out. Many rely on the engine frame for the return feed, and the mounting screws loosen and or corrode easily, thus also compromising the electrical path. And as someone pointed out, many use a spring loaded system to return to either full down or full up, depending on the design. These are often small springs and the whole thing is mickey-mouse if you ask me.
jimh	posted 05-21-2009 05:34 PM ET (US) Electrical supplier BURNDY makes a product called Penetrox. Penetrox is a thick conductive grease designed for use on electrical connections, usually high-current connections.
westcoastwhaler	posted 05-22-2009 12:57 AM ET (US) Have you checked the sending unit?
Newtauk1	posted 05-22-2009 08:35 AM ET (US) jimh, Thanks for the info regarding oxides of silver and copper. I did not know that. I have used abrasive devices to clean up connectors in the past removing the tinned materials in some cases. I will change my process in the future. NT1 My money is in the sending unit.
Newtauk1	posted 05-22-2009 08:51 AM ET (US) ps. the mechanical sending unit on my 2001 75hp Mercury failed last season. The unit had corroded on the trim bracket. Easy replacement. Poorly constructed.I am surpised it last as long as it did.
Bigfish18	posted 05-23-2009 09:11 PM ET (US) [Changed TOPIC to something completely unrelated. Begin a new thread to change the topic. Move to a different area to discuss topics not related to SMALL BOAT ELECTRICAL topics.--jimh.]
Newtauk1	posted 05-24-2009 03:02 AM ET (US) Bigfish18, welcome to the site. it would work better if you started a new topic under the REPAIRS/MOD section rather than jumping into another topic thread.
Smithsm	posted 06-17-2009 09:06 AM ET (US) Well what do you know - the trim tab guage is working but is way out of calibration - meaning that it does not begin to register on the needle guage until the motor is pretty far up. so "level"on the needle guage is the motor way, way up - almost out of the water has anyone ever seen this before ? it seems like I just need to make a calibration adjustment
jimh	posted 06-17-2009 01:51 PM ET (US) If the TRIM gauge and the sender are matched to each other, the calibration adjustment generally is limited to a mechanical change in position of the sender relative to the outboard motor. If the TRIM gauge and the sender are not matched to each other, you might see the effect as a change in the dial calibration. Usually the sender resistance and the meter configuration have to be designed to work with each other. I do not think there are universal values for these components in the circuit.