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Author Topic:   The Lowrance HDS-10 and StructureScan
RB89BW posted 01-01-2010 07:49 PM ET (US)   Profile for RB89BW   Send Email to RB89BW  
Happy new year to all.
I am considering in upgrading my current Lowrance unit to the new Lowrance HDS-10 and adding the StructureScan module to it.

1. Has anybody had any experience with the new StructureScan?

2. If I add a StructureScan module will that also add broadband Sounder to my unit and if that is true than I would only need to buy a HDS-10m and save a couple of bucks right?

3. I see both the 10 and 10m come with built in 16-channel GPS+WAAS antenna; are there additional antenna options?

4. Are there different packages being offered as far as transducer options? I see that most common is the transom mount 83/200 KHZ transducer package.I am very aware of the fact that StuctureScan comes with a totally different transducer and that is why I ask.

5. Do we know if Lowrance will be offering a HDS-10/StructureScan package?

6. What exactly does come with the HDS-10/10m package?

I know there are a lot of questions here and I have been reading post on different Lowrance models threw out the years on this site so I felt this was the go to place for answers.

A last note; I also am aware that many of use have are own preference when it comes to electronics and I personally have no idea of what other manufactures have to offer, what there price is, or what there customer service is like. I have been a loyal loving Lowrance user for some 40 years something like my Boston Whaler.

Thank You for your help
RB

SJUAE posted 01-02-2010 01:09 AM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
RB89BW

quote:
1. Has anybody had any experience with the new StructureScan?

No but the guys at.tidalfish.com/Boat Electronics and General Electronics have many pictures, you will need to sign up to see them

quote:
2. If I add a StructureScan module will that also add broadband Sounder to my unit and if that is true than I would only need to buy a HDS-10m and save a couple of bucks right?

I believe you will need an additional transducer for normal broadband sounder display, The HDS 10 will allow you to switch between transducers or show both.

quote:
3. I see both the 10 and 10m come with built in 16-channel GPS+WAAS antenna are there additional antenna options?

Yes there is an external NMEA2000 antenna; I think it has a much faster update time.

quote:
4. Are there different packages being offered as far as transducer options? I see that most common is the transom mount 83/200 KHZ transducer package.I am very aware of the fact that StuctureScan comes with a totally different transducer and that is why I ask.

The packages are only what the retailers seem to be bundling as common options you can mix and match on many parts. I do not believe these are bundled by Lowrance.

quote:
5. Do we know if Lowrance will be offering a HDS-10/StructureScan package?

As 4 above

quote:
6. What exactly does come with the HDS-10/10m package?

As 4 above, but generally The HDS will come with or without additional inbuilt charts depending on options in US and world chart elsewhere, power cable and NMEA cable & T, Transducer of your choice with mounting bracket.

Regards
Steve

Jefecinco posted 01-02-2010 09:33 AM ET (US)     Profile for Jefecinco  Send Email to Jefecinco     
RB,

You can download the owner's manual for the HDS 10 at the Lowrance site. I believe they also have the information and specifications you seek for all the versions of the HDS 10.

Butch

jimh posted 01-02-2010 10:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
quote:
"...the guys at.tidalfish.com/Boat Electronics and General Electronics have many pictures..."

While not having seen these pictures, I am assuming they are screen shot recordings from the SONAR display. For me, this is a mandatory feature--being able to write a copy of the screen display to a memory card--and it makes the Lowrance line of SONAR devices a favorite for me.

tmann45 posted 01-02-2010 08:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for tmann45  Send Email to tmann45     
quote:
For me, this is a mandatory feature--being able to write a copy of the screen display to a memory card--and it makes the Lowrance line of SONAR devices a favorite for me.

Garmin's latest version of their software also has this feature.
SJUAE posted 01-02-2010 09:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
Jim

You are correct, I should of said screen captures

Here's 2 reproduced captures by memeber RDTKL on tidalfish.com after he first fitted sidescan.

I think he was playing with screen colours. The gill net maybe more obvious if you rotate the image.

http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww76/SJUAE/Lowrance%20HDS5/ gillnetred-1.jpg

http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww76/SJUAE/Lowrance%20HDS5/side1.jpg

Regards
Steve

RB89BW posted 01-02-2010 10:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for RB89BW  Send Email to RB89BW     
Thank for your responses and screen capture links. I have seen many to include youtube videos and I am amazed at how well StructureScan works. I saw one screen capture where a school bus sat in 180’ of water and you could see the windows and rear view mirrors clearly on the bus and on the same screen a school of fish (that look like fish and not arches) swimming above it in 110’ of water.
These units are new and can get pricey. I know what I want but want to be careful on what I buy so that I get the most for my money.
I would like to revisit a couple of responses for I understand something totally different.

My question
2. If I add a StructureScan module will that also add broadband Sounder to my unit and if that is true than I would only need to buy a HDS-10m and save a couple of bucks right?
________________________________________
Respnse was
I believe you will need an additional transducer for normal broadband sounder display, The HDS 10 will allow you to switch between transducers or show both.
My response is:
I am not sure if I agree with this. What I am see is when you add Broadband to any of the HDS-XXm series units it is achieved by adding a modular and not by changing the transducer.And in fact the modular looks very similar to the StructureScan modular. The transducer on the HDS-10m and HDS-10 are the same (I think) the transducer for StructureScan is very very different.So what I am trying to figure out is do I need Broadband option with my HDS unit if I am using StructureScan modular?

Hoosier posted 01-03-2010 06:15 AM ET (US)     Profile for Hoosier  Send Email to Hoosier     
The Broadband Sounder is the "HD" part of the HDS series. From the Lowrance HDS-10 web page:

"Built-in Broadband Sounder"

http://www.lowrance.com/Products/Marine/HDS-High-Definition-System/ HDS-10-FishfinderGPS-Chartplotter/

StructureScan is an add-on module to the HDS series that adds side scan sonar capability. The StructureScan uses higher frequencies than the standard HDS sonar and is therefore limited to 100-300' depth capability.

"Max Depth 100 ft (800kHz); 300 ft (455kHz)"

The installation and user manuals are here:

http://www.lowrance.com/Products/Marine/ Broadband-Sounder-and-Ethernetworking/StructureScan/Downloads/

jimh posted 01-03-2010 09:05 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Following the link (see above) about the characteristics of the LOWRANCE broadband SONAR, I read:

"With Lowrance Broadband digital signal processing software, noise goes way down and sensitivity goes way up."

Is the HDS Sonar technique a chirped SONAR? There is a rather technical explanation of the technique at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse_compression

which is far beyond the grasp of bass fishermen and most other readers. However, the description of the benefits of a chirped SONAR seem to be well correlated with the benefits of the HDS SONAR, and thus I wonder if they share this technique.

A chirped SONAR emits a pulse of sound with changing frequency. This permits the detection and processing of echoes to be done advantageously, assuming one has the processing power to apply the necessary algorithms. With digital signal processing chips today having great power and low price, it is reasonable to assume that the technique could have filtered down (to make a pun) to the level of a recreational SONAR for boaters.

ASIDE: Having spent thousands of hours listening to radio-telegraphy signals, I found that a chirped CW signal was often possible to recognize better in the presence of interference because of its changing frequency characteristic. This was when copying by ear. I assume that the underlying mathematical basis that proves that processing in the detector for a chirped signal yields better signal to noise ratio is just proof of what I could hear with my own ears.

Hoosier posted 01-03-2010 11:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for Hoosier  Send Email to Hoosier     
From what info is available it is likely that the broadband sounder does use an FM (chirp) waveform. This allows for "matched filter" receiver signal processing that looks for the replica of the transmitted signal in the echo and discriminates against background noise. With really cheap signal processing (DSP) chips consumer electronics can do a lot of very sophisticated stuff. We went into this topic last Spring here:

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/002023.html

SJUAE posted 01-03-2010 01:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
RB89BW

The broadband sounder 1 module

http://www.lowrance.com/Products/Marine/ Broadband-Sounder-and-Ethernetworking/Lowrance-Broadband-Sounder-1/

This is only required on HDS units that do not have a broadband sounder built in (eg the HDS-10m)

Note all HDS models ending in M are called Multifunction GPS Chartplotter and do not have broadband built in.

So the HDS-10 is built in and the one you want

The sounder 1 module is also compatible with all 2007 and later LCX, LMS, X and GlobalMap® Lowrance models with 5-pin ethernet connector

I also note based on a recent thread that there is ~$600 premium going for the 10" unit over the 8' (ie $2100 vs $1500)

It my be worth considering if it suits your configuration on board etc, to have a 8" main display and a 7" secondary dedicated to sonar

Here's a couple of pictures I made up to make comparision easier

Size comparison

Another graphic shows the relative size of the displays when showing typical screen information.

Regards
Steve

jimh posted 01-03-2010 03:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
As David notes we did postulate a bit about the HDS SONAR signal processing. We did not really identify the precise terms "chirped SONAR" and its corresponding "pulse compression" demodulation technique in that discussion. However, I feel that there is a good chance that chirped SONAR and pulse compression demodulation are precisely what is embodied in the HDS SONAR from Lowrance. They just use terms like "broadband" and "digital" to describe it. It would be interesting to know more about it. You would have to get beyond the first or second layer of technical support person to reach anyone at Lowrance who could answer. There may also be certain non-disclosure customs in force, too. They may consider it a competitive advantage and not want widely know their precise method of improvement.
Hoosier posted 01-03-2010 06:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for Hoosier  Send Email to Hoosier     
To move the discussion back to StructurScan, this internal Lowrance memo [on patent infringement with regard to Humminbird] could be interesting to discuss in the coming months. It's on their website and therefore is no longer confidential.
RB89BW posted 01-03-2010 07:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for RB89BW  Send Email to RB89BW     
Goleeeeeeeee I am over my head now with information. I knew you guys knew a lot about this stuff.
Thank you for that info and you hit the nerve on my very thought If I bought the HDS-10M and added the StrutureScan modular would that also give me broadband sounder? Or would I also need to buy the broadband sounder 1 module to get it? I understand that if I did need the broadband sounder 1 module to get broadband on a 10m unit I would be just better off buying the HDS-10.
I am committed to the larger screen for a number of reasons.
RB
SJUAE posted 01-04-2010 09:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
RB89BW

You need to get the HDS-10 (with broadband built in) and a transducer of your choice (eg 80/200 skimmer) plus the StrutureScan module which comes with it's own special transducer.

Forget about the sounder 1 module or the HDS 'M' units as this will workout more expensive and is unnecessary.

Therefore your boat will have one 10" display and two transducers, the StrutureScan module and a seperate GPS antenna, if you wish.

Your display will have to be split into minimum 3 windows to show all info and toggle windows if you also have radar. This is why sometimes it's preferable to have a dedicated seperate sonar display, which also gives a measure of redundancy on failure of your main unit.

Then inbuilt chart options are another thing, to suit your area of coverage in US.

Regards
Steve

Feejer posted 01-04-2010 06:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
[Changed topic to resume the usual JIHAD AGAINST LOWRANCE. JIHAD AGAINST LOWRANCE is not on topic here. We are discussing the HDS-10. Thanks for staying on topic--jimh]
SJUAE posted 01-04-2010 10:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
[Address the comments on the JIHAD AGAINST LOWRANCE. Deleted to help stay on-topic.--jimh]
jimh posted 01-04-2010 11:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I want to thank Steve for his work in researching the screen size and his creation of the graphic shown above. Steve's chart above is very handy to evaluate the price point and true cost of screen real estate. I will use it to compare the option of buying one large display versus two smaller ones. For prices I will use a big retailer, Cabela's, as representative of Lowrance retail price.

HDS-10 gives 52-square-inch of display and costs $2,300.

A combination of

HDS-7 gives 19.7-square-inch and costs $1,000
HDS-8 gives 32.3-square-inch and costs $1,700
TOTAL is 53-square-inch of display and costs $2,700.

The single HDS-10 is more cost effective by $400, although with dual units you can really have some fun with screen displays, plus you'd have redundancy for GPS and SONAR.

Feejer posted 01-05-2010 10:32 AM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
[More on JIHAD AGAINST LOWRANCE, not the HDS-10. Comments deleted--jimh]
SJUAE posted 01-05-2010 12:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
[Another reply to JIHAD AGAINST LOWRANCE. Deleted to help stay on topic.--jimh]
SJUAE posted 01-05-2010 02:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
Jim

Thanks, by way of refinement I managed to scale the soft keys menu at the bottom of the screen on the HDS-8 & 10

http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww76/SJUAE/Lowrance%20HDS5/ latesthdsscreenratio.jpg

I looked in the manual and I do not think you can scale or switch off this menu, although you can still use the slower method of option selecting (as on the HDS-5 & 7) via main menu button.

You approximately loose:

5.7-square-inch of display on the HDS-10
3.6-square-inch of display on the HDS-8

As you note the HDS-10 tips the balance and even with a bit of shopping around you can close the $400 delta to nearer $150 in favour of the HDS-10.

Personally I think the combination of HDS-8 plus a 7 topped of with the new Standard Horizon GX2100 VHF would be outstanding.

But I may opt for 1 or 2 more HDS-5's with the VHF, unless I can squeeze a 7" in somewhere :)

Regards
Steve

Feejer posted 01-05-2010 02:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
Steve
Get the largest display you can fit on your dash. 5 inch is pretty small, it will even look smaller when your moving. You'll be paying more but your eyes will like it much better.
tmann45 posted 01-05-2010 05:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for tmann45  Send Email to tmann45     
Steve,

Great stuff you are adding to this discussion. I have not searched as long and hard as I usually do, but have had trouble finding screen size information. One point is that the HDS-8 has screen size is listed differently in a couple of places, 8", 8.2" and 8.4". The only place I found the horizontal and vertical screen dimensions was in a brochure that I downloaded. Can you give me any links to screen size dimensions or confirm actual sizes?

SJUAE posted 01-05-2010 06:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
tmann45

I took the dims from the user manuals specification page for the 5/7 and 8/10 as like you found some websites were missleading on the decimal place.

http://www.lowrance.com/Downloads/Manuals/

Regards
Steve

SJUAE posted 01-05-2010 06:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
Feejer

I find this ok so far :)

http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww76/SJUAE/Lowrance%20HDS5/IMAGE_023. jpg

Sorry it was taken with phone camera trying to show brightness in daylight in another thread.

I may be able to squeeze a 7" on the far side inplace of the OEM VHF

Regards
Steve

Feejer posted 01-05-2010 07:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
Steve
Looks like the 7 would fit. You might want to get the full dimensions from the manual and do digital print of it. Tape on the console and see how it fits.

If your able to buy it from BOE. I find they have great prices and the sales guys really know their stuff.

http://www.boemarine.com/Support/Article. aspx?ArticleID=C38A4BDD-0D7B-402F-997A-F6803B316F44

Hoosier posted 01-05-2010 08:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for Hoosier  Send Email to Hoosier     
Jim,
Regarding your combination analysis above, what about an HDS-5 for Sonar and an HDS-8m as a chart plotter? Since they can be on a NMEA 2K network, the sonar data from the HDS-5 can be displayed on the HDS-8m. I think this combo price beats the single HDS-10, gives plotter redundancy, and takes up less real estate.
jimh posted 01-05-2010 09:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I thought the JIHAD AGAINST LOWRANCE was ended at the last Ramadan.
RB89BW posted 01-05-2010 10:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for RB89BW  Send Email to RB89BW     
Gentlemen gentlemen being I started this post let me try to ask my next question. But first let me thank you all for the great info you have provided to date. Also let me remind you that some of the most technical info on any unit on the market today can be obtained on this site. But if we could just stop bad mouthing the particular manufacturer of question and try to answer not only the original post question but others that are spark up as a result of that question I think all of our stress levels would go down.
Also let me add as originally posted I have been a lowrance user for some 40 years for better or worse and at this point in my life I really don’t care what any other manufacturer has to offer what any body else has to say about Lowrance . I have been reminded for the last 46 years how many other boats are better than my Boston Whaler and I have yet to change that.
Finally the question: I currently have a Lowrance LCX 37C for no other reason than to simplify my installation will the transducer that came with that unit interface with a HDS-10? If it does will it give me the Broadband Sounder? Or am I being lazy and should I replace the current Transducer with the one that comes with the new Unit?
Next if I dare; my LCX37C came with a LGC-3000 GPS Modular which is networked with my NMEA 2000. Will that unit upgrade the HDS-10 and give me a faster update time?
Again sincerely, to all of you for your feedback it is priceless and appreciated.
RB
makoman310 posted 01-05-2010 11:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for makoman310  Send Email to makoman310     
[This author has an HDS-10 but asked that we call him at] [telephone number redacted] [to get his comments because they were] too long to post here.
jimh posted 01-06-2010 12:54 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Re the transducers and the GPS antenna or modules:

I suspect that the older Lowrance SONAR transducers might be still used on the HDS as the basic transducer. However, Lowrance has a history of changing the connectors on their cables, and it could be that even if your old transducer itself was practically identical to the newest transducer used on the HDS-10 (and thus compatible with the HDS-10), the connector on its cable might not be compatible with the connector on the HDS-10.

On the GPS antennas or receiver modules, the LGC-3000 has been superseded by the LGC-4000 as the external GPS receiver module for the Lowrance NMEA-2000 network. I am not expert on this, but I assume the following:

--the LGC-3000 puts the usual NMEA-2000 PGN's associated with a GPS receiver onto the network. Any device looking for position data could use this information.

--there is some interaction between the GPS receiver and the multi-function display which allows for the operator to make some minor adjustments to the GPS receiver, such as whether or not it ought to look for a PRN code from a WAAS source and use the WAAS data to enhance the fix, and also what PRN code it ought to look for as the optimum choice.

My guess is that the older GPS receiver on the network should work OK. Precisely whether or not the HDS-10 can interact with a LGC-3000 receiver to control it is probably best left to Lowrance to answer.

In terms of performance, progress in manufacture of GPS receivers has been relentless in the direction of smaller size, lower power consumption, more sensitivity, faster signal acquisition, more satellites locked and tracked simultaneously, and reduced costs. In this regard the newer devices are likely to be better devices in all of those categories than older devices. I think this explains in part why Lowrance offers most of their chart plotter devices with a built-in GPS receiver. It only costs them a few dollars more to build in the GPS receiver, it makes the installation much simpler for the bass fisherman (who does not want to install NMEA-2000 network backbone wiring for only a two-node network), and it works as well or better than previous external receivers.

Lowrance also has some history of field failures of their external GPS antennas, which was thought to perhaps be related to high radio frequency fields (as from a near-by RADAR) or from static discharges (from triboelectric effects from dragging boat canvas covers over them). The LGC-4000 seems to have improved the reliability of the Lowrance external antenna over previous models.


SJUAE posted 01-06-2010 01:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
RB89BW

I far as I can tell the sockets on the back of the units appear the same.

http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww76/SJUAE/Lowrance%20HDS5/ hds5-lcx37c.jpg

As Jim notes you should ask Lowrance if your older sonar transducer is compatible with broardband on the HDS units.

I agree with Jim in theory the GPS LGC-3000 unit should work as it's NMEA2000 (red sockets)but as to updating the HDS at a faster rate I'm not so sure.

The specs are not conclusive for the LGC-3000 other than it is a 12 channel receiver.

The HDS built in GPS is 16 channel and the newer external LGC-4000 is also 16 channel with faster update times and is suppose to be more sensitive with a small foot print/size.

Regards
Steve

PS Jim thanks for the Jihad ref, very funny for me and I note Feejer and my replies were civil

SJUAE posted 01-06-2010 02:41 AM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
Feejer

I still owe Hoosier a picture for the map icon displays changes from this thread, which should also be of interest.

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/002572.html

But I can't get the wife on the boat as it's only 78F here :)

I could of fitted a 7" instead of the 5" with fractions to spare and by deleting the 2 gauges. So I'm sure I can get a 7" on the other side.

But my first priority was to replace the OEM Navaman fish finder that was useless in shallow water.

I would of liked the 8" but the cost of this vs the combinations of 3x5" or 2x5"+1x7" or 2x7" is too tempting, especially if I add broadband radar and/or StructureScan(got to have some toys to play with whilst Err indoors sunbathes)

This is all muddled with the cost effectiveness of replacing my engine gauges for my ETEC with NMEA2000 ones and just how many holes I can replace/drill in my console.

I'll think I will try a photoshop exercise to see what it looks like.

Hoosier
Good point on the 1x8"+1x5" combination vs 1x10"

Regards
Steve

SJUAE posted 01-06-2010 04:33 AM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
Here's a sort of before and after

http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww76/SJUAE/Lowrance%20HDS5/before.jpg


http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww76/SJUAE/Lowrance%20HDS5/after.jpg

The console is slightly different now as I have dual control for my kicker and I have one HDS-5 fitted already.

Regards
Steve

Feejer posted 01-06-2010 07:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
Looks good!

You could also save some room with going with a VHF with a remote mic (see link). I've had one on my last three boats and really like it. I would not worry too much about cutting holes in the dash. You can always mount everything to starboard (white or black). What about mounting a larger unit on top of the console?

http://8140341.phanfare.com/3750593#imageID=-66320105

Hoosier posted 01-06-2010 08:17 AM ET (US)     Profile for Hoosier  Send Email to Hoosier     
Nice layout and you can change the display closest to the helm based on your interest at the moment. Is your steering wheel/helm standard? I like the idea of a spinner handle, mine came from the local auto parts store.
SJUAE posted 01-06-2010 10:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
Feejer

Something I forgot in a previous thread was that many BW have a lower console so top mounting is not so obstructive.

As you can see its only just possible to see my wife sitting on the bow reading.

Starboard I would love to get hold of some for other projects too, but I can't get it here and shipping it is rediculously expensive on top of a high price already.

Hoosier

Standard BW wheel on an Outrage

Now if I had a blank canvas and another few $100

http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww76/SJUAE/Lowrance%20HDS5/superhds. jpg

But 3x5" or 2x5" + 1x7" is good value IMO

Regards
Steve

SJUAE posted 01-06-2010 10:51 AM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
Here's an alternative mount solution especially if hung upside down from your T-Top/E Box.

http://www.seaviewglobal.com/en/products/282

Maybe a bit ugly on the top of the dash IMO

Regards
Steve

Feejer posted 01-06-2010 12:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
My buddy had his gear in his T-Tops electronic box. Great place until your straining your neck to look UP. Eye level or lower is the way to go
RB89BW posted 01-06-2010 06:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for RB89BW  Send Email to RB89BW     
Jim thanks I did speak with makoman310

Well I guess I kind of knew that was what the answers would be. Update and match everything new.I am also hearing of a multi frequency transducer which you can program your HDS-10 to read.What is up with that?

What Lowrance NEMA 2000 gauges do you fellows like to match up with to your Etech? I have already installed I command interface to my lowrance unit and I am thinking of going gauge-less.

Just a quick note I was referred to a local electronics guy today. Nice guy really. His first words where why Lowrance go Garmin. May be great advice but he was not able or willing to answer the very questions I have ask on this site. Again Thank You for all your help everyone.

RB

JMR posted 01-07-2010 11:48 AM ET (US)     Profile for JMR  Send Email to JMR     
Steve:

Thank you for your excellent contributions. I have followed your suggestion for two displays so my winter upgrade of ancient electronics has started with a good deal on a basic HDS-8 combo unit for fishfinding & as an eventual backup GPS. After all the necessary learning, fitting & tuning, I will think about the radar unit.

Does the Structure Scan unit influence the choice of the regular transducer for the HDS with its built-in sounder? Assuming the basic Airmar P66 50/200 kHz is a good reference point, would it be wasteful to consider newer Airmar offerings which have more bells and whistles or will this Lowrance technology become truly mind boggling with a few hundred dollars more spent on a transducer? Hopefully, the Structure Scan module and the HDS built-in sounder will permit a simple transducer (even the old one still on my BW transom for a Garmin 240 Blue might be adapted)?

I will fishing strictly coastal northeast --- Long Island Sound/Atlantic and not the Canyons. So for me 300' is starting to get deep.

Only Lowrance glitch so far is in registering the product they listed the warranty as expiring on 1/04/2011 whereas the front of the box says there is a new, expanded two year limited warranty (jimh, please excuse me).

SJUAE posted 01-07-2010 11:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
RB89BW

quote:
What Lowrance NEMA 2000 gauges do you fellows like to match up with to your Etech? I have already installed I command interface to my lowrance unit and I am thinking of going gauge-less

It’s not recommended to go "gauge-less" for the following:

1. If you have a warranty it would be voided
2. You won’t get any alarms and warnings
3. Some additional engine info is only available with I-Command

As a minimum you should have at least a Systemtech gauge and buzzer fitted. Agreed this could be installed out of sight giving the appearance of "gauge-less".

If you’re thinking of showing engine info, broadband, structure scan and chart data all at the same time on your HDS-10 screen will look very busy IMO and detract from the main feature of being large and clear and working very hard to update all that info constantly

So even more reason to get a secondary unit e.g. HDS-5 or 7 :)

Regards
Steve

SJUAE posted 01-08-2010 01:20 AM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
JMR

Congrats,

I think if you ask Jim at BOE Marine he would advise but as far as I can understand if you are looking for excellent info at those depths then the standard 50/200 skimmer is only 250W and you should be thinking of a more powerful transducer.

The same chap I noted before RDTKL on tidalfish.com also has some pictures in deepwater on the hulltruth here so I can link them (Hope that's ok Jim)

http://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-electronics-q-boe-marine/ 228619-lowrance-hds10-deep.html

I think this was using a Aimar P66 600w transducer he now has one of these fitted:

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/002494.html

But these are serious money

I'm inclined to agree with you that with StructureScan working up to 300ft maybe outperforming the standard bundled dual frequency skimmer and a modest upgrade is worth considering but possibly not essential unless you’re a serious fisherman. Although getting StructureScan is already a commitment.

Personally I'm more interested in the technology/gadgetry factor and I'm not sure if I would know what to do with all that info.

I can drown worms as good as the next man. I guess knowing something is potentially down there is a big help but not guaranteed success for me :)

Regards
Steve

jimh posted 01-08-2010 12:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Steve's remark about AIRMAR SONAR transducers led me to look into their prices, where I found, quite to my surprise, that they were remarkable. I had no idea that an AIRMAR transducer sold for over $800, and that a discounted, on-line retail price. It would be quite interesting to know if an investment of $800 for a transducer for a SONAR could improve the results in an equally remarkable way.
SJUAE posted 01-08-2010 02:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
Another possible advantage of getting STRUCTURESCAN I had not noticed

If you are considering dual/triple displays and want to truly network them so that non NMEA2000 data is interchangeable then previously you had to buy the NAVICO NEP-1 NAVICO EXPANSION PORT for around $160 which allows up to 4 units to be networked.

However if you opt for the LOWRANCE LSS-1 STRUCTURESCAN SOUNDER for around $580 this allows up to 3 HDS units to be networked.

This makes the Structurescan even better value for multi display setups

Regards
Steve

RB89BW posted 01-10-2010 10:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for RB89BW  Send Email to RB89BW     
OK so I get that don’t go gauge-less and I agree the stock transducers that comes with the lowrance HDS-10 and structure scan should be fine for what I do.
I also did pick up on the fact that there would be a savings with the StrutureScan set up being I want to also interface the LWX-1 SIRIUS® Satellite.
Which creates more questions.
Which gauges would you recommend for my E-Tec Lowrance , BRP or other?
Will they interface with nema 2000 ?
I understand that the StrutureScan modular requires a 12 volt power source will that interface with nema 2000?
By the way as reference I am the guy who showed up at last years Manhattan Rendezvou with the stripe bass on board.
RB
SJUAE posted 01-11-2010 01:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
RB

You must fit one 3" BRP gauge and buzzer that displays engine warning info to comply with your warranty

You have a choice of 4 types

http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/Accessories/Category.htm?category=Gauges& popup=true

Only the digital ones (eg I-Command) are NMEA 2000 and cost ~$100 more than the others.

Personally I would get the I-Command and depending on your preferences and how many sensors/probes you install to convert old analogue data from (eg Fuel tank, Trim Tabs, Oil Tank, water pressure)to digital.

If you want them displayed separately to your I-Command gauge or HDS-10 will determine what additional gauges you prefer/require.

The NMEA 2000 backbone has its own independent power source. Your HDS-10, LWX-1 SIRIUS and StrutureScan will also have independent power sources.

The StrutureScan is a Lowrance proprietary network device and not a NMEA 2000 device; however it will network across multiple HDS units only, via the StrutureScan port expander box that you will also connect your LWX-1 SIRIUS too.

Regards
Steve

RB89BW posted 01-17-2010 10:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for RB89BW  Send Email to RB89BW     
Quote\ “The HDS built in GPS is 16 channel and the newer external LGC-4000 is also 16 channel with faster update times and is suppose to be more sensitive with a small foot print/size.”

I can not get a straight answer on this one. Do you guys feel it is cost effect to add the LGC-4000 to a HDS-10 unit or is it over kill? Mind you that my unit sits on top of my console with out a T-top but does have some stainless arch around it. I have heard from other HDS-10 users that there unit seems to update well without the external antenna.I already have nema 2000. But if I don’t have to spend the extra $$$ that is fine by me.
RB

SJUAE posted 01-18-2010 06:49 AM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
RB89BW

I don't think you will have any real problems with your internal antenna and you always have the option to add the LGC-4000 later or try your existing.

I also note after further reading your will need broard band and structure scan transducer to get the downscan display (not to be confused with sidescan).

According to the manual the transducers should not be placed more than 1ft apart for this feature.

Regards
Steve

Jefecinco posted 01-18-2010 09:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for Jefecinco  Send Email to Jefecinco     
RB,

The LGC4000 is not an antenna. It is a complete GPS receiver which requires a separate switched 12 volt power connection. The HDS-10 you described in your initial post has a built in GPS receiver. I believe the built in receiver is electronically identical to the LGC4000. If a redundant GPS receiver is desired the LGC4000 would be a good choice.

Butch

RB89BW posted 01-18-2010 10:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for RB89BW  Send Email to RB89BW     
Gentleman
OK I think that is good advice I can always add the LGC-4000 additional antenna (receiver) if I need it. Also I am aware that this is a separate unit which requires a 12 volt supply which is interfaced with NEMA 2000 which I have.
Steve I appreciate the heads up on the two transducers being mounted so closely together I just recently learned that and I was a bit surprised with that info.
This year I am totally rewiring my 1990 22 outrage super console and I am gathering all the info first. I also want to get as many pieces of the puzzle together before I begin. In the past I have made the mistake of over buying components of which I am trying to avoid. I am sure I will have more questions.
RB
SJUAE posted 01-18-2010 10:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
Butch

You are correct we should use receiver and not antenna, but this was only in the context of RB89BW question.

However as we have already noted above the units are not the same and the external LGC-4000 updates faster.

The LGC-4000 would not be redundant if poor signal/loss of tracking etc occurs due to location of the HDS base unit.

This is RB89BW concern.

Regards
Steve

RB89BW posted 01-20-2010 10:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for RB89BW  Send Email to RB89BW     
This gets more confusing every day. I can read the difference can someone explain the difference between these 2 units?


140-00
Lowrance HDS-10 Base USA, 10.4" color display, High Def Sonar/GPS Chartplotter w/built-in Inland & Coastal map, internal 16-Ch GPS+WAAS ANT, NMEA 2K & ethernet capability. Includes 83/200Hz Transducer

140-13
Lowrance HDS-10 Insight USA, 10.4" color display, High Def Sonar/GPS Chartplotter w/Superior Inland & Coastal map, internal 16-channel GPS+WAAS ANT, NMEA 2K & ethernet. Includes 83/200Hz Transducer

As always Thanks
RB

makoman310 posted 01-21-2010 05:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for makoman310  Send Email to makoman310     
[T]he [Insight] [HDS] 10 has more detail and coastal mapping than the base model.
RB89BW posted 01-21-2010 08:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for RB89BW  Send Email to RB89BW     
So do you think it is worth the extra money? In the past I have waisted more money on nothing much.
RB
makoman310 posted 01-21-2010 09:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for makoman310  Send Email to makoman310     
[Said he will get answers to questions posed above.]
SJUAE posted 01-27-2010 03:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
This maybe of interest:

Press release 27/1/10 from Lowrance:

LOWRANCE AFFIRMS CONTINUED COMMITMENT FOR DISTRIBUTION AND SUPPORT OF STRUCTURESCAN™ SONAR IMAGING TECHNOLOGY

Side-scanning and DownScan Imaging™ software and module add-on solution for HDS displays offers anglers and boaters a unique full-picture view of the underwater world.

Tulsa, Okla. – Lowrance, a world-leading brand in marine electronics since 1957 and GPS navigational systems since 1992, re-affirmed today that the LSS-1 StructureScan™ sonar imaging module option – compatible with HDS fishfinder/chartplotter multifunction displays – will continue to be sold, distributed and fully supported worldwide.

The announcement is a direct response to today’s patent infringement lawsuit filed against Navico, Inc., by Johnson Outdoors.

Lowrance publicly announced the 2009 availability of LSS-1 StructureScan™ sonar imaging on February 20, 2009, at the Bassmaster® Classic Expo, held in Shreveport, La. Additional details – including the DownScan Imaging™ feature of StructureScan™ sonar imaging for Lowrance HDS displays – were revealed publicly on July 15, 2009, at the International Convention of Sportfishing Trades (ICAST), held in Orlando, Fla.

Following the on-time shipment of LSS-1 StructureScan™ sonar imaging in November 2009, excitement of LSS-1 StructureScan™ sonar imaging continues to grow as media and dealer demonstrations at marine-industry events have revealed the unique “full picture” view and other unique features that this add-on module provides for owners of Lowrance HDS multifunction displays.

The LSS-1 StructureScan™ sonar imaging is based on Navico’s known and reliable sonar technology, yet it also features additional new technology not available from others, in a unique add-on module configuration.

“We are confident,” said Louis Chemi, COO for Navico Americas, “in the uniqueness and value of Lowrance LSS-1 StructureScan™ sonar imaging. We also wish to assure our customers that the worldwide sale and distribution of StructureScan™ sonar imaging will absolutely continue as planned with full Lowrance support for years to come. Navico will vigorously defend the recent legal proceedings initiated by Johnson Outdoors.”

Regards
Steve

Hoosier posted 01-27-2010 04:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for Hoosier  Send Email to Hoosier     
Steve, I got the same email. This could be a very interesting legal case if both sides have to reveal their source code to prove that their product is unique or infringed upon. The really interesting part will be how they trace back the "prior art" since a lot of this stuff was done for the Navy's Office of Naval Research (ONR), Naval Research Laboratory (NRL), and under Navy contract at many universities and was or is classified.
RB89BW posted 01-31-2010 09:42 AM ET (US)     Profile for RB89BW  Send Email to RB89BW     
Well last week I was at the NY Boat show and I have to admit the Lowrance guys were not the best source of info. I have been trying to figure out what is the best way to go with the HDS-10 should I go with the mdl#140-00 Base or the #140-13 Insight? What I am figuring is to save money and buy the Base unit and than go ahead and use those funds and purchase Navionics NavPlanner and than download my own charts? (NavPlanner is compatible with Navionics Silver, Gold+, Platinum and Fish'N Chip marine cartography line-up; as well as HotMaps Platinum and HotMaps Premium lake maps.)
What are your feelings here?

RB
Jefecinco posted 01-31-2010 10:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for Jefecinco  Send Email to Jefecinco     
I find the Lowrance charts included with their GPS units to be extremely accurate and well presented. I believe you'll find they are sufficient for just about any navigational task you'd care to take on.

I'm not conversant with today's state of the art on navigational software but in the past Lowrance has marketed a package for their applications that allowed for trip planning and permitted transfer of way points and tracks via SD cards from the GPS to your PC. I'd be surprised if that did not also meet your requirements.

Butch

SJUAE posted 02-01-2010 02:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
RB89BW

The inbuilt chart options offer excelent value IMO and leaves you with 2 free SD slots on the HDS-10

NavPlanner is for way point routing and allows you to view your chart data from the encryptic SD card etc and do planning at home on your PC.

I don't think you can obtain scaned charts and add them to your HDS if thats what you are thinking or use the inbuilt chart on your HDS from NavPlanner.

I think NavPlanner is also not compatable with windows 7 currently, only XP and Vista.

Regards
Steve

RB89BW posted 02-02-2010 10:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for RB89BW  Send Email to RB89BW     
Steve
“I don't think you can obtain scaned charts”
That is what I was thinking and once again I will follow your advice and go with the HDS-10 Insight.I have never planned a route and really don’t think I ever will.
This brings up another question. Will I be able to down load the waypoints from my 27c that I saved on my multimedia card to the HDS-10? And how can I tell if in-fact that the down load from the 27c to the multimedia card was successful? I have tried to down load the card to my computer with no luck and the Lowrance guys at the NY Boat show where not able to do it. So how might I be sure all the info is there before I sell my 27c?
RB
SJUAE posted 02-03-2010 03:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
RB89BW

I'm also not familar with this procedure as I have no requirement but my understanding is

The waypoints are stored on the chart plotter memory and can be copied to any suitable formated card (Not your map card)like any saved screen shot

This data is not encrypted and should be readable as a text deliminated file on any pc/mac that has a card reader.

The structure of the data on the file may well be complex if it's a multiple route.

So the proof of copying is simple that the file existist on the card.

You should not need Navplanner to copy/move waypoints/routes etc but it is capable of creating new ones.

Regards
Steve

RB89BW posted 02-04-2010 03:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for RB89BW  Send Email to RB89BW     
Went down to Fred Chall marine today and Chuck was a great source of info. He was able to determine that I would not be able to transfer the info using the card I have and I need to get a “HD” card so I am going to do that. He will than be able to check that card. He also showed me the difference between Insight and Basic and there was a mark difference in the Insight unit.
FYI if you buy a Lowrance HD unit before March 1 you can get the Sirius modular for only $99.00.
RB

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