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Author Topic:   Raymarine to support Jeppesen C-Map (again)

David Pendleton posted 11-20-2014 07:06 PM ET (US)
News [about cooperation between Raymarine and Jeppesen over use of C-MAP digital charts on Raymarine chart plotters was announced] here:
http://www.raymarine.com/news/mynews.cfm?story=10869

jimh posted 11-20-2014 09:41 PM ET (US)
With the announcement that RAYMARINE and JEPPESEN are cooperating with use of digital charts on chart plotter products, we see that Jeppesen has now broadened its market for its digital cartography to include chart plotters of these brands:
--NAVICO family, which is Lowrance, Simrad, and B&G;
--Furuno;
--Humminbird;
--Standard-Horizon (and, yes, they do make some chart plotters);
--SI-TEX (and, yes, they still are making chart plotters);
--a lot of smaller chart plotters which are probably private label brands using a common hardware platform made in the Far East and customized a little; and
--Raymarine, the latest cooperating partner.
This gives C-MAP a very wide base of hardware on which it can sell its digital cartography, and now expanded to include Raymarine. The one odd aspect of all this is the format of the storage device is quite variable among all these brands, so you can not in practice have the C-MAP cartography on one chip or memory card and carry it around to all the brands and devices.
The notable exception to this collection of chart plotter brands using C-MAP is GARMIN, which has chosen to make its own charts and sell them bundled with their own hardware.
saumon posted 11-20-2014 09:53 PM ET (US)
Re: Garmin proprietary maps
Not anymore. Navionics maps were announced to be available for Garmin chartplotters in "early 2015" ( http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/003670.html ).
jimh posted 11-20-2014 11:41 PM ET (US)
Interesting information about Garmin, but they're not partnered with C-MAP. Rather they've apparently cast in with the competitor of C-MAP, Navionics.
It seems like most chart plotters are trending toward being cartography agnostic.
Humminbird was also in the same position as Garmin, that is, they were making their own charts and bundling them with their chart plotters. Humminbird (or its parent, Johnson Outdoors) bought two charting companies and took their charts off the market to make them Humminbird exclusive products: DrDepth and Lakemaster. Apparently Humminbird added C-MAP some time recently.
Announcement of C-MAP/Humminbird partnering:
http://ww1.jeppesen.com/company/newsroom/articles.jsp?newsURL=news/ newsroom/2013/Marine_Humminbird_Introduces_Two_Navigation_Systems.jsp
Announcement of DrDepth purchase by Johnson Outdoors
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/003416.html
Announcement of Lakemaster purchase by Johnson Outdoors
http://investor.johnsonoutdoors.com/releasedetail.cfm?releaseid=590559
Hoosier posted 11-21-2014 09:04 AM ET (US)
I really hated to see Lakemaster gobbled up by [Johnson Outdoors], their Michigan chip was fabulous. Not only did it show depth contours for the US waters of the Michigan Great Lakes (except Superior) but it had every two track trail too. Once [Johnson Outdoors] bought them they stopped supporting Lowrance. I ended up getting three Lakemaster chips on eBay, one for each car and one for the fishing boat.
jimh posted 11-25-2014 07:54 AM ET (US)
After Johnson Outdoors bought Lakemaster, and Lowrance chart plotters stopped supporting Lakemaster charts, I wondered what caused that. There seems like two possible situations:
--Lowrance's licensing agreement to use Lakemaster data expired and was not renewed, causing Lowrance to have to remove from their chart plotters the capability to use Lakemaster charts. The lack of a renewed license agreement could be due to either party not wanting to continue; or,
--Lowrance just decided to stop supporting Lakemaster data because it was being provided by a maker of a competing chart plotter.
Also, I wonder in these agreements between makers of chart plotters and makers of electronic cartography who pays whom? For example, in this just announced partnership between Raymarine and Jeppersen C-MAP, is C-MAP paying Raymarine to add support for their charts to the Raymarine chart plotters? Or is Raymarine payiing C-MAP to permit use of C-MAP charts on Raymarine plotters?
saumon posted 11-25-2014 09:19 AM ET (US)
To answer that question, you'll need to find who's making a benefit in that kind of transaction. To me, it seems obvious that the charts makers are the ones who makes money selling their charts and, thus, must pay the chartplotters makers to made their devices compatibles with their charts, because I'm pretty sure there's a larger proportion of consumers that choose their devices first then get the maps that are compatibles than the other way around. So, there's a good possibility that the higher bidder between Navionics and C-Map is allowed to have their maps supported.
I see no reason why a chartplotters makers would pay the charts makers.
jimh posted 11-25-2014 04:16 PM ET (US)
SAUMON remarks about who-pays-whom in the negotiations between chart plotter makers and electronic chart makers:

quote:
I see no reason why...chartplotters makers would pay the charts makers.
I can see one very good reason: a chart plotter is not particularly useful without any electronic charts. A chart plotter maker must deliver some sort of electronic chart with their chart plotter, or risk having very low functional value. On that basis, a maker of chart plotters who did not particularly have the resources to also invent their own electronic charts themselves might be willing to pay a chart maker to enable their charts to be used on a particular chart plotter.

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Author	Topic: Raymarine to support Jeppesen C-Map (again)
David Pendleton	posted 11-20-2014 07:06 PM ET (US) News [about cooperation between Raymarine and Jeppesen over use of C-MAP digital charts on Raymarine chart plotters was announced] here: http://www.raymarine.com/news/mynews.cfm?story=10869
jimh	posted 11-20-2014 09:41 PM ET (US) With the announcement that RAYMARINE and JEPPESEN are cooperating with use of digital charts on chart plotter products, we see that Jeppesen has now broadened its market for its digital cartography to include chart plotters of these brands: --NAVICO family, which is Lowrance, Simrad, and B&G; --Furuno; --Humminbird; --Standard-Horizon (and, yes, they do make some chart plotters); --SI-TEX (and, yes, they still are making chart plotters); --a lot of smaller chart plotters which are probably private label brands using a common hardware platform made in the Far East and customized a little; and --Raymarine, the latest cooperating partner. This gives C-MAP a very wide base of hardware on which it can sell its digital cartography, and now expanded to include Raymarine. The one odd aspect of all this is the format of the storage device is quite variable among all these brands, so you can not in practice have the C-MAP cartography on one chip or memory card and carry it around to all the brands and devices. The notable exception to this collection of chart plotter brands using C-MAP is GARMIN, which has chosen to make its own charts and sell them bundled with their own hardware.
saumon	posted 11-20-2014 09:53 PM ET (US) Re: Garmin proprietary maps Not anymore. Navionics maps were announced to be available for Garmin chartplotters in "early 2015" ( http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/003670.html ).
jimh	posted 11-20-2014 11:41 PM ET (US) Interesting information about Garmin, but they're not partnered with C-MAP. Rather they've apparently cast in with the competitor of C-MAP, Navionics. It seems like most chart plotters are trending toward being cartography agnostic. Humminbird was also in the same position as Garmin, that is, they were making their own charts and bundling them with their chart plotters. Humminbird (or its parent, Johnson Outdoors) bought two charting companies and took their charts off the market to make them Humminbird exclusive products: DrDepth and Lakemaster. Apparently Humminbird added C-MAP some time recently. Announcement of C-MAP/Humminbird partnering: http://ww1.jeppesen.com/company/newsroom/articles.jsp?newsURL=news/ newsroom/2013/Marine_Humminbird_Introduces_Two_Navigation_Systems.jsp Announcement of DrDepth purchase by Johnson Outdoors http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/003416.html Announcement of Lakemaster purchase by Johnson Outdoors http://investor.johnsonoutdoors.com/releasedetail.cfm?releaseid=590559
Hoosier	posted 11-21-2014 09:04 AM ET (US) I really hated to see Lakemaster gobbled up by [Johnson Outdoors], their Michigan chip was fabulous. Not only did it show depth contours for the US waters of the Michigan Great Lakes (except Superior) but it had every two track trail too. Once [Johnson Outdoors] bought them they stopped supporting Lowrance. I ended up getting three Lakemaster chips on eBay, one for each car and one for the fishing boat.
jimh	posted 11-25-2014 07:54 AM ET (US) After Johnson Outdoors bought Lakemaster, and Lowrance chart plotters stopped supporting Lakemaster charts, I wondered what caused that. There seems like two possible situations: --Lowrance's licensing agreement to use Lakemaster data expired and was not renewed, causing Lowrance to have to remove from their chart plotters the capability to use Lakemaster charts. The lack of a renewed license agreement could be due to either party not wanting to continue; or, --Lowrance just decided to stop supporting Lakemaster data because it was being provided by a maker of a competing chart plotter. Also, I wonder in these agreements between makers of chart plotters and makers of electronic cartography who pays whom? For example, in this just announced partnership between Raymarine and Jeppersen C-MAP, is C-MAP paying Raymarine to add support for their charts to the Raymarine chart plotters? Or is Raymarine payiing C-MAP to permit use of C-MAP charts on Raymarine plotters?
saumon	posted 11-25-2014 09:19 AM ET (US) To answer that question, you'll need to find who's making a benefit in that kind of transaction. To me, it seems obvious that the charts makers are the ones who makes money selling their charts and, thus, must pay the chartplotters makers to made their devices compatibles with their charts, because I'm pretty sure there's a larger proportion of consumers that choose their devices first then get the maps that are compatibles than the other way around. So, there's a good possibility that the higher bidder between Navionics and C-Map is allowed to have their maps supported. I see no reason why a chartplotters makers would pay the charts makers.
jimh	posted 11-25-2014 04:16 PM ET (US) SAUMON remarks about who-pays-whom in the negotiations between chart plotter makers and electronic chart makers: quote: I see no reason why...chartplotters makers would pay the charts makers. I can see one very good reason: a chart plotter is not particularly useful without any electronic charts. A chart plotter maker must deliver some sort of electronic chart with their chart plotter, or risk having very low functional value. On that basis, a maker of chart plotters who did not particularly have the resources to also invent their own electronic charts themselves might be willing to pay a chart maker to enable their charts to be used on a particular chart plotter.