posted 05-27-2015 05:24 PM ET (US)     

I am replacing the bilge pump which sits in the sump of [a Boston Whaler 170 MONTAUK] boat. The electrical connections are subject to complete immersion in water--saltwater in my case. The factory connectors appear to be some sort of barrel crimp connector with a sleeve that is sealed on both ends, whether by heat or some kind of compound I'm not sure.

The original connectors lasted the 11 years I have owned the boat where it was primarily moored in salt water, and used the pump to keep the boat dry, so whatever Boston Whaler did, they did it right; it is the pump that failed, not the connectors.

posted 05-28-2015 08:50 AM ET (US)         

Also, the plural of Honda is Hondas, not Honda's.

posted 05-28-2015 11:54 PM ET (US)            

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Also, the plural of Honda is Hondas, not Honda's.

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posted 05-29-2015 02:56 PM ET (US)         

This site ceases to be useful.

Connector is VERY common parlance for a device not intended to be disconnected, and surely you understood what I meant from your years with dealing with boat electrical, and probably bilge pumps in particular.

Pointing me to a low-end motorcycle site where they can't spell Hondas is not useful.

Telling me to solder and cover with shrink wrap is not useful as surely you know this is not ideal for water, particularly saltwater, incursion.

Tom Hemphill provided me with the name of the "connector" and I found them online. Thank you Tom.

posted 06-02-2015 09:22 AM ET (US)            

quote:

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If you are not going to contribute positively to these threads, then at least let others do so.

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I suppose you consider your recent posting to be a positive contribution:

quote:

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Also, the plural of Honda is Hondas, not Honda's.

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How does that represent some sort of cogent contribution to the discussion of electrical wiring and butt splices?

posted 06-03-2015 06:20 AM ET (US)            

It is my observation, after running a forum for more than 15-years and running a website for more than 20-years, that a website that tries to collect information about itself is inherently not very useful. That is why I generally do not try to collect information about the website itself.

posted 06-04-2015 03:00 PM ET (US)            

Please refer to the links here for easy explanations of what the parts are called:
http://www.ancorproducts.com/en/products/terminals

Parts that connect one wire to another without the ability to disconnect are called CONNECTORS and parts that can be connected and disconnected are called DISCONNECTS or SNAP PLUGS. Anything that is crimped to the end of a wire and connected to something other than another wire is generally called a TERMINAL.

Please point us to a reference that proves what YOU are saying.

posted 06-04-2015 05:54 PM ET (US)         

First directing me to some 2nd rate motorcycle website (and I used the Honda plural to give some indication of the quality of that site).

Then sarcastic commentary, and nitpicking over commonly-understood nomenclature:

"I would not call a butt-splice a "connector." Connectors usually are devices that can be connected or disconnected. A butt splice is not a connector in that sense because it is a permanent, one-time use device. Is that what you are trying to replace? You can get them many places. To pay the most for them, go to a ship's store. I'd probaby just twist the conductors together, solder them, and cover the joint with heat shrink."

It was a simple question, using commonly-understood language. I fail to see what merited the above response.

posted 06-04-2015 07:18 PM ET (US)            

Also, a quick google search will show about 2.3x the number of results for the term "butt connector" vs. "butt splice".

posted 06-05-2015 09:40 AM ET (US)            

There is a very long thread asking for advice about connectors to use with navigation lamps. In that lengthy thread, no one suggested using a butt-splice. If a butt-splice were considered by most readers to be "a connector", you would have expected that after dozens of suggestions for a connector for a navigation lamp, someone would have suggested a butt-splice. It would be the least expensive and smallest connector. Yet, no one did that. That is because no one understood that a "connector" could be something that was a one-time, permanent wiring device. Everyone one understood that when a recommendation was sought for "a connector" the butt-splice crimp-on device was not included in the realm of connectors.

posted 06-05-2015 09:55 AM ET (US)            

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As I stated before, the ONLY reason this Honda plural thing came up at all was because of Jimh's unhelpful reply to my original query.

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You are being completely disingenuous. My reply was only "unhelpful" because it did not identify the device you were seeking, but it certainly was helpful in eliminating a type of connector.

Your comment about a misspelled word on that website was completely off-topic. The spelling of Honda in the plural was not in anyway related to or important in the process of identifying the type of connector you were trying to describe. Your comment seemed to me to be completely off-topic and of no help at all in identifying the connector you were seeking. Yet, you accuse me of offering unhelpful advice--really? That is rather inconsistent.

Swist insists that it is not helpful for me to point to a website having many images of connectors that fit his vague description--"The factory connectors appear to be some sort of barrel crimp connector with a sleeve"--but it is supposed to be helpful for Swist to comment on spelling--"the plural of Honda is Hondas, not Honda's." Swift made no reference in his initial comment that he was commenting about the spelling of a word on another website. The words "Honda" or "Honda's" or "Hondas" were never part of this discussion until Swift introduced them. And that is supposed to be more "helpful" than discussing electrical connectors.

posted 06-05-2015 11:18 AM ET (US)         

Thanks to all who have made this site an enjoyable part standard part of my boating experience.

I'm sure I will see many of you on the other boating and Whaler sites.

posted 06-05-2015 11:49 AM ET (US)            

Electrical pumps designed to be used in a submerged location on a boat sump are available with electrical leads that are long enough to permit the splice of the leads to the electrical circuit operating the pump to be made far above any level that water might rise. The best practice in replacement of this original pump is to choose a replacement pump with longer electrical leads. It is often an option when purchasing an electrical sump or bilge pump to get the pump with long electrical leads attached to it. These leads can be three-feet long or longer. A vertical rise from the pump of three feet ought to be sufficient to place the electrical splice to the boat's pump circuit far above the level that water could rise to, unless the boat has sunk to its gunwales.

posted 06-05-2015 11:58 AM ET (US)            

An electrical "connector":

--save the threaded caps from two tubes of tooth paste which have an inside diameter of about 3/16-inch;

--wash the caps carefully in hot water to remove any trace of toothpaste residue;

--strip the two conductors of their insulation for about 0.75-inch;

--twist the two conductors together

--thread on to the connected conductors a toothpaste cap; tighten moderately;

--obtain a source of silicon sealant such as the common electrical product RTV silicon;

--instill into the bottom of the tooth paste caps sufficient RTV or suitable sealant to completely seal the connection; let the RTV cover the bare conductors and about 3/8-inch of the wire insulation

--wait a day or two for the RTV to dry thoroughly.

According to the new standard suggested in this discussion, we have a waterproof electrical "connector."

posted 06-05-2015 12:14 PM ET (US)            

Swist points to a website as a means of illustrating the type of connector he wants to buy. On that website there is a misspelling. If I operated by the same logic as Swist, I should have chastised him for being unhelpful and offered a correction to the spelling of the word found on the website he pointed to.

This is another complete inconsistency in Swist's behavior here. If I give a pointer to a website which contains a misspelled word, I am being unhelpful and it renders the entire website as being no longer useful. Yet, Swist does the exact same thing he has accused me. How ironic.

Using Swist's own reasoning, I must declare that his replies were unhelpful, that I found them not useful, and the website he mentions is "2nd rate." Note that "2nd rate" is itself a misspeliing, and in this case, done by Swift himself. This is again ironic, because Swift sets a standard for websites presented by others to which he cannot adhere with his own writing.

P.S. The misspelling was exactly the same mistake pointed out by Swist himself: the inappropriate use of an apostrophe in forming a plural. This makes it doubly ironic:

--Swist points to a website with a spelling error, and

--the spelling error is precisely the same error he has found so objectionable.

posted 06-05-2015 01:08 PM ET (US)            

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Real men admit when they are wrong.

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I am glad to recite the following errors I made in this discussions:

--I erred when I failed to realize that Swist lacked familiarity with the extremely common term "butt-splice";

--I erred when I made an incorrect guess at what connect connector Swist was trying to describe;

--I erred when I did not immediately recognize that Swist was changing the topic of discussion to begin a lesson on how to form the plurals of proper nouns because somewhere, if you scrolled far down the long page of connectors and their illustrations that I referenced as a way to assist Swist in identifying the connector, there was a word, a proper noun, and the form used to create a plural of that proper noun, as means to refer to the products of that company, not the company itself, was formed in a manner or style that Swist objected to.

I cannot admit that I have made an error when I said:

quote:

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An insulated butt splice is not commonly called a connector by anyone familiar with electrical wiring. The bullet connections I referred you to are used in many marine applications. The particular vendor site having an orientation to another market for their application does not in any way exclude their use in boats. Look under the cowling of a Yamaha outboard to find bullet connectors in use.

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I expressed my beliefs and my observations. Let's review them:

--An insulated butt splice is not commonly called a connector by anyone familiar with electrical wiring." I believe this. I have never had a colleague or someone well-versed in electrical wiring and electrical connections refer to a butt-splice by any name other than a butt-splice. Perhaps my exposure is limited and not as worldly as Swist's.

--"The bullet connections I referred you to are used in many marine applications." This is true. I have seen the bullet connectors used in outboard engines made by several manufactures, but particularly in Yamaha engines. I have seen them used in the power cords of electronic devices made by ICOM and others.

--"The particular vendor site having an orientation to another market for their application does not in any way exclude their use in boats." This just seems completely self-evident. Curiously, Swist puts forward a notion that he can only be satisfied with a connector sold exclusively for marine applications, but this is completely contradicted by the actual connector. Insulated butt-splices with heat-shrink sealing are sold everywhere, and sold for many applications.

--"Look under the cowling of a Yamaha outboard to find bullet connectors in use." This is true, at least for the Yamaha outboard engines I have owned.

I cannot "admit" I "was wrong" about any of this. The only possible area of dispute may be the use of the word "connector" as being a descriptor of any means by which two electrical conductors can be joined. As I pointed out above, such a broad interpretation of "connector" leads to some rather unusual choices of "connectors" available. I think of a connector as a device incorporating a connector body, a locking mechanism, a mounting mechanism (either to a cable or a bulkhead) and various electrical contacts or terminals. Connectors can be mated and unmated. This is my point of view. I am not particularly persuaded to change it. Wikipedia seems to agree with me:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Electrical_connector#Types_of_electrical_connectors

posted 06-05-2015 01:28 PM ET (US)            

One important basis for Swift's declaration that my responses were unhelpful and the site was now useless was his citation of what be believed to be an error in the use of an apostrophe to form a plural. Swift prefers that when referring to a lot of vehicles made by Honda, the proper form is "Hondas" and not "Honda's."

The use of apostrophes to form plurals is not really a matter of hard and fast rules, but more a case of style. For many years, apostrophes were used to form plurals. It was once common to see writing like this:

quote:

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In the 1920's there was a spirit of optimism in America.

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Currently, many respected style guides suggest that one ought to write:

quote:

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In the 1920s there was a spirit of optimism in American.

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In the case that Swift has made into a cause celebre, the word Honda is used as a metonymy. The writer was making a figure of speech. He used the brand name HONDA to refer to motorcycle products made by that company. HONDA is a proper noun. The use of proper nouns in metonymy is the topic of an interesting paper. For those who are particularly interested in this fascinating sidebar topic introduced by Swist, I recommend the follow:

http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/markert/Papers/metaphorbook2006.pdf

posted 06-05-2015 04:22 PM ET (US)            

quote:

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Also, a quick google search will show about 2.3x the number of results for the term "butt connector" vs. "butt splice".

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Try this: use GOOGLE search for images. Compare the results for

"butt splice" (my term)
https://www.google.com/search?q=butt+splice&biw=1063&bih=863& source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=ogNyVfW8C8f1oASCrYPQBw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg

and for

"barrel crimp connector" (Swist's term)
https://www.google.com/search?q=butt+splice&biw=1063&bih=863& source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=ogNyVfW8C8f1oASCrYPQBw& ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg#tbm=isch&q=barrel+crimp+connector

Compare which search terms results are closer to what we finally discovered as the connector being sought. Note one of the first results in the search for "barrel crimp connector" is the male portion of a bullet connector--precisely what I pointed to in my reply to Swist.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cycleterminal. com%2Fwpimages%2Fbullet-terminal.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww. cycleterminal.com%2Fbullet-connectors.html&docid=o601m7PP0__3BM& tbnid=rWl4Upx5qyTjZM%3A&w=500&h=362&ei=pwRyVZrxEIWlyQTw0YO4Aw& ved=0CAIQxiAwAA&iact=c