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Author Topic:   2003 vs 2001 Ventura 21

stlawrence posted 09-17-2002 03:35 PM ET (US)
Anybody know if there are any significant differences between the 2001 and 2003 21 foot Venturas? Let me specify - enough of a difference to justify about $10k difference in price? Found a left-over 2001 with a 225 Optimax, and it looks good.
diveorfish posted 09-17-2002 04:03 PM ET (US)
I don't know for sure but the specs look the same except that the 2003 offers a big 4 stroke as an option. The pictures look the same also, for what that's worth.
I would go for the 2001 and try for an even bigger discount because the boat is 2 model years old now. They want to sell that boat so make them want you to buy it.
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 09-18-2002 06:05 PM ET (US)
I have a 21' 2001 Ventura, nicest product I have ever purchased (boat). Fully equipped with 200 HPDI Yamaha power and dual tandem
aluminum its worth at least $45K. Some others on trader and yachtworls are 41 to 48K with opti power! I believe there are NO significant differences. I suggest you get trim tabs the boat runs to starboard and its heavy, I get 36 mph at 4300 rpms.
Anything else you want to know just ask, I have had this boat since 5/01 and will be purchasing a 31' Jupiter next year! I need something to safely and comfortably cruise the bahamas.
Andy posted 09-18-2002 07:19 PM ET (US)
Whaler Enthusiasts;
I am looking to speak to someone who owns a 290 outrage or 295 conquest. I am looking into buying one, but have some questions to ask. I am concerned about the shape of the hull at the stern. Because of the indention of the hull under the water line, supposedly reverse thrust is lost and manuvering in reverse or turning into the wind can be a problem. Can someone give some valid information based on experience?
stlawrence posted 09-19-2002 08:22 AM ET (US)
Thanks, Trafficlawyer. If you don't mind, I would like to ask you some questions about the Ventura. We are looking for a boat for the St Lawrence Seaway, which is cold, cold, cold. I would prefer an Outrage, but frankly, the Outrage just doesn't give enough weather protection, I don't think. Is that your feeling, also? Do you have full canvas for the Ventura, including wx canvas? How has it worked for you? Is the 200 enough power to pull an adult on skis? Have you any complaints about it? And finally, the big question, if you don't mind my asking - what is the best deal one can expect on a Ventura, expressed in percent off MSRP? (I wouldn't ask how much you paid - that would be rude - but what is reasonable to expect - 15% off? 20% off? More? Again, thanks.
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 09-19-2002 12:38 PM ET (US)
stlawrence;
My boat has a full wx set,complete enclosure
this came from Whaler, keeps you dry no problems. My boat could pull a skier with the 200 yamaha at 4700 rpm i do about 35 mph.
I'm propped wrong.
I dont know what I paid since this boat was the product of numerous trade ins over the years. I value it conservativly at $45K, there are a few on trader and yacht world for $41 to 48K. Needs trim tabs, boat runs a bit to starboard, prop torque. Great all around product.
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 09-19-2002 12:41 PM ET (US)
stlawrence;
if your bringing the family, this is more of an around family boat, more comforatble than the outrage, transom door and full transom seat,get the back to back portside seating, your wife will much prefer this product over the outrage.
jimh posted 09-19-2002 01:18 PM ET (US)
Ironic that just last evening I was reading an article in the latest issue of BOATING that talked about buying new boats that were a model year or two out of date.
The author stressed that a boat having sat on a dealer's showroom for several years without selling was evidence of an unpopular model. He cautions buyers that such boats should be purchased with an eye to the difficulty the buyer may have when he decides to sell, and that accordingly the author recommends getting a substantial discount from the new price.
Having unsold VENTURA models seems to be fairly common. Here is a long-time Whaler dealer with three VENTURA models in inventory, two unsold since 2001.
http://www.mertaughboatworks.com/sales/new/index.html
stlawrence posted 09-19-2002 01:33 PM ET (US)
Interesting, Jimh. I'll tell you, there are some things about the Ventura I don't like, and I'm not surprised they don't sell that well. I think the pilot sits too low, and has too limited visibility. Of course, that limited visibility gives greater wx protection, which is what I'm seeking. Also, the Ventura isn't a great fishing boat, nor a great family runabout. But having said that, I don't see why they are not more popular - they're fully loaded, they seem to be family friendly, and they're solid as a rock. But if they're not moving, how come dealers won't come off the price?
wspellenbe posted 09-19-2002 03:20 PM ET (US)
I am considering a ventura also and see the same thing as far a price. These boats seem way over priced. I am looking for a 1996 1997 Dauntless which looks like the new Ventura. I did get a quote on a 2001 Ventura with the Merc 135 for 26k with no trailer. It had been at the dealer for quite a while. I have seen one just like it at another dealer and they wanted 32k go figure. Even at 26k and no trailer no thanks
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 09-19-2002 04:08 PM ET (US)
wspellenbe,
with a 135 hp, it had to be a 16' ventura.
I'm not going to defend the fishability of the ventura other than to say, I fished this boat heavily off jupiter all summer and it performed flawlessly with gunnel mounted taco outriggers, I can compete with contenders or the like,has fishboxes,live-wells, etc.
As far as seating its confortable, if you want to stand all the time or half ass sit
the outrage may be more suitable, just depends on your needs.
As to Jimh's thoughts, I have found that some types of boats move better in different parts of the country. Geography plays a role in peoples tastes. So, having 2 12' venturas and 1 16' ventura is no indicator of anything.
diveorfish posted 09-19-2002 04:08 PM ET (US)
21 Venturas do sell. Last January I was at the San Francisco boat show and was seriously looking forward to seeing a 21 Ventura. Unfortunately the dealer didn�t bring one to the show, but he did say that he had one back at the shop if I wanted to go see it. Well, the shop was quite a ways away so I opted not to go right then and decided to go the following week. I did in fact go to their shop the following week and did get a detailed look at a 2001 21 Ventura. Just my luck though, the boat had been sold to someone a couple of days before. If I remember correctly, they were asking $45k for it with a trailer and most of the options.
Although I know for a fact that Venturas do sell, they probably don�t sell very quickly because of their competition in the 21 ft. bow rider class. Let�s face it, at first glance, a new 21 Ventura is a 21ft. bow rider, that costs an outrageous $50k. It isn�t sexy or cool looking like many other bow riders and it costs about $20k more to boot. If I was only going to ski or cruise around on a nice lake, I wouldn�t buy one either. I also wouldn�t buy one if I were a hardcore offshore fisherman favoring instead a center console.
With that being said, who would buy one? Well, I would for one. It is a family friendly offshore fishing boat. As a 21ft. bow rider, it has all the amenities of any other 21ft. bow rider plus a head, which is a rare feature in that class. As an offshore fishing boat, it is at least as seaworthy as the 210 Outrage with big fuel capacity as well as a built in livewell. Furthermore, it wouldn�t be anymore inconvenient to fish out of a Ventura than any other duel console type fishing boat. As a side note, if you dive or ski, the Euro transom with swim platform comes in real handy. Personally, I like the 21 Ventura. The only thing you can knock is the price but that can be said of all Whalers.
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 09-19-2002 04:16 PM ET (US)
JimH
"having unsold venturas seems fairly common"
What do you do take inventory or just swag?
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 09-19-2002 04:23 PM ET (US)
diveorfish;
Your right, if you want sexy or cool, than the boxy, unattractive looking whalers would'nt be first choice. But as an offshore general purpose, I think they're perfectly suited. Mind you I'm not defending the dual console concept since I'm buying a 31' Jupiter. Yo.
lhg posted 09-19-2002 04:27 PM ET (US)
One Whaler dealer told me Ventura's are slow sellers. He said he "can't give them away".
jimh posted 09-19-2002 04:32 PM ET (US)
Well, it just happened that I was looking at that website (Mertaugh's) the other day and noticed he had 3 unsold Ventura's. Then stlawrence says his dealer has unsold 2001 stock. Last time I was at the local dealer he had an unsold Ventura from a year or so before. Last boatshow I went to the Whaler dealer had an unsold Ventura with a big price cut. Yes, my sample size is small perhaps, but I do get the impression that they don't fly off the floor like 170-MONTAUKs.
As others point out, for a bowrider style boat the hull is quite expensive. Certainly it is a quality boat and every bit a Whaler, it is just that often people seeking bowriders are going to use them in relatively protected water and may not want to pay double the price of similar boats.
There was also a recent boat test of "family boats" which included a VENTURA. The boat came priced out at $ 44,000. A very similar Bayliner boat was under $20,000. I can see how it could be a tough sell to convince a guy with a cottage on a lake that he needs to buy a boat that costs more than twice as much as another which is suitable for the purpose.
I think the boat has strong appeal to women. My wife was insisting we buy a VENTURA for quite a while, but I wanted an OUTRAGE. We settled on a REVENGE.
diveorfish posted 09-19-2002 05:46 PM ET (US)
Trafficlawyer: Bite your tongue, Whalers are beautiful. I should have said �not gaudy� as opposed to �not sexy or cool.� I think you misunderstood me. I really like the 21 Ventura and I also like the dual console. You have nothing to defend. I just can�t believe I misspelled dual in my earlier post.
Also what is a Jupiter?
jimh posted 09-19-2002 06:22 PM ET (US)
One reason a spouse might like a VENTURA (or other dual console designs) is the equality of the seating: the helm seat and the passenger seat are equal. In a center console, the helmsman gets the best seat and everyone else gets a subordinate quality seat. In a VENTURA (and also in a REVENGE) the seats are the same for helm and passenger locations.
David Ratusnik posted 09-19-2002 06:58 PM ET (US)
No jimh, No. The wife sits right up on half the leaning post with her very own foot stool any time she wishes.My center console boat practices gender equity when cruising. She doesn't go fishing so I get the leaning post all to myself. Nice try!!! David
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 09-19-2002 07:56 PM ET (US)
lhg;
I have had three Jupiter/Contender/Intrepid dealers tell me they couldnt give away a whaler with an optimax and/or that the trade value was much lower than if it was powered by honda,yamaha or suzuki.
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 09-19-2002 08:02 PM ET (US)
Jimh;
some validity in your bayliner/whaler analogy,however by that very logic, Why spend $70+K for the new 24 outrage when one can go purchase the trophy? To each their own! Like you say the ventura is from the same womb of quality. However,Your equality or reference to the helm station and the person in the port seat of a ventura somehow subordinate sucks! oops!! lacks your typical creative genius!
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 09-19-2002 08:06 PM ET (US)
Jimh/lhg ;
P.S. lots of 28/29 Conquests sitiing around dealers too, number of dealers have leftovers. Maybe attributable to the upper end price tag? Jimh take a swag!
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 09-19-2002 08:11 PM ET (US)
diveorfish;
OK, I bit my tongue. Jupiter's can be found on www.jupitermarine.com
P.S.
Jimh/lhg;
I hope you realize this is all tongue in cheek! hee,hee!!!!!!!
jimh posted 09-19-2002 09:45 PM ET (US)
trafficlawyer--You misread my remarks. The Ventura seating promotes equality. Both seats are equal.
The typical center console favors the pilot. The passenger either has to sit up front ahead of the console or in the back by the noisy, roaring 2-stroke engine...
jimh posted 09-19-2002 09:48 PM ET (US)
In big center console boats where offshore fishing is the intended use, moving up to (and paying for) Whaler quality can be a good investment--it might save your life.
So a $70,000 Whaler is more marketable against a $30,000 Bayliner for these customers than the VENTURA might be.
jimh posted 09-19-2002 09:50 PM ET (US)
trafficlawyer--You misread my remarks. The Ventura seating promotes equality. Both seats are equal.
The typical center console favors the pilot. The passenger either has to sit up front ahead of the console or in the back by the noisy, roaring 2-stroke engine...

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Author	Topic: 2003 vs 2001 Ventura 21
stlawrence	posted 09-17-2002 03:35 PM ET (US) Anybody know if there are any significant differences between the 2001 and 2003 21 foot Venturas? Let me specify - enough of a difference to justify about $10k difference in price? Found a left-over 2001 with a 225 Optimax, and it looks good.
diveorfish	posted 09-17-2002 04:03 PM ET (US) I don't know for sure but the specs look the same except that the 2003 offers a big 4 stroke as an option. The pictures look the same also, for what that's worth. I would go for the 2001 and try for an even bigger discount because the boat is 2 model years old now. They want to sell that boat so make them want you to buy it.
TRAFFICLAWYER	posted 09-18-2002 06:05 PM ET (US) I have a 21' 2001 Ventura, nicest product I have ever purchased (boat). Fully equipped with 200 HPDI Yamaha power and dual tandem aluminum its worth at least $45K. Some others on trader and yachtworls are 41 to 48K with opti power! I believe there are NO significant differences. I suggest you get trim tabs the boat runs to starboard and its heavy, I get 36 mph at 4300 rpms. Anything else you want to know just ask, I have had this boat since 5/01 and will be purchasing a 31' Jupiter next year! I need something to safely and comfortably cruise the bahamas.
Andy	posted 09-18-2002 07:19 PM ET (US) Whaler Enthusiasts; I am looking to speak to someone who owns a 290 outrage or 295 conquest. I am looking into buying one, but have some questions to ask. I am concerned about the shape of the hull at the stern. Because of the indention of the hull under the water line, supposedly reverse thrust is lost and manuvering in reverse or turning into the wind can be a problem. Can someone give some valid information based on experience?
stlawrence	posted 09-19-2002 08:22 AM ET (US) Thanks, Trafficlawyer. If you don't mind, I would like to ask you some questions about the Ventura. We are looking for a boat for the St Lawrence Seaway, which is cold, cold, cold. I would prefer an Outrage, but frankly, the Outrage just doesn't give enough weather protection, I don't think. Is that your feeling, also? Do you have full canvas for the Ventura, including wx canvas? How has it worked for you? Is the 200 enough power to pull an adult on skis? Have you any complaints about it? And finally, the big question, if you don't mind my asking - what is the best deal one can expect on a Ventura, expressed in percent off MSRP? (I wouldn't ask how much you paid - that would be rude - but what is reasonable to expect - 15% off? 20% off? More? Again, thanks.
TRAFFICLAWYER	posted 09-19-2002 12:38 PM ET (US) stlawrence; My boat has a full wx set,complete enclosure this came from Whaler, keeps you dry no problems. My boat could pull a skier with the 200 yamaha at 4700 rpm i do about 35 mph. I'm propped wrong. I dont know what I paid since this boat was the product of numerous trade ins over the years. I value it conservativly at $45K, there are a few on trader and yacht world for $41 to 48K. Needs trim tabs, boat runs a bit to starboard, prop torque. Great all around product.
TRAFFICLAWYER	posted 09-19-2002 12:41 PM ET (US) stlawrence; if your bringing the family, this is more of an around family boat, more comforatble than the outrage, transom door and full transom seat,get the back to back portside seating, your wife will much prefer this product over the outrage.
jimh	posted 09-19-2002 01:18 PM ET (US) Ironic that just last evening I was reading an article in the latest issue of BOATING that talked about buying new boats that were a model year or two out of date. The author stressed that a boat having sat on a dealer's showroom for several years without selling was evidence of an unpopular model. He cautions buyers that such boats should be purchased with an eye to the difficulty the buyer may have when he decides to sell, and that accordingly the author recommends getting a substantial discount from the new price. Having unsold VENTURA models seems to be fairly common. Here is a long-time Whaler dealer with three VENTURA models in inventory, two unsold since 2001. http://www.mertaughboatworks.com/sales/new/index.html
stlawrence	posted 09-19-2002 01:33 PM ET (US) Interesting, Jimh. I'll tell you, there are some things about the Ventura I don't like, and I'm not surprised they don't sell that well. I think the pilot sits too low, and has too limited visibility. Of course, that limited visibility gives greater wx protection, which is what I'm seeking. Also, the Ventura isn't a great fishing boat, nor a great family runabout. But having said that, I don't see why they are not more popular - they're fully loaded, they seem to be family friendly, and they're solid as a rock. But if they're not moving, how come dealers won't come off the price?
wspellenbe	posted 09-19-2002 03:20 PM ET (US) I am considering a ventura also and see the same thing as far a price. These boats seem way over priced. I am looking for a 1996 1997 Dauntless which looks like the new Ventura. I did get a quote on a 2001 Ventura with the Merc 135 for 26k with no trailer. It had been at the dealer for quite a while. I have seen one just like it at another dealer and they wanted 32k go figure. Even at 26k and no trailer no thanks
TRAFFICLAWYER	posted 09-19-2002 04:08 PM ET (US) wspellenbe, with a 135 hp, it had to be a 16' ventura. I'm not going to defend the fishability of the ventura other than to say, I fished this boat heavily off jupiter all summer and it performed flawlessly with gunnel mounted taco outriggers, I can compete with contenders or the like,has fishboxes,live-wells, etc. As far as seating its confortable, if you want to stand all the time or half ass sit the outrage may be more suitable, just depends on your needs. As to Jimh's thoughts, I have found that some types of boats move better in different parts of the country. Geography plays a role in peoples tastes. So, having 2 12' venturas and 1 16' ventura is no indicator of anything.
diveorfish	posted 09-19-2002 04:08 PM ET (US) 21 Venturas do sell. Last January I was at the San Francisco boat show and was seriously looking forward to seeing a 21 Ventura. Unfortunately the dealer didn�t bring one to the show, but he did say that he had one back at the shop if I wanted to go see it. Well, the shop was quite a ways away so I opted not to go right then and decided to go the following week. I did in fact go to their shop the following week and did get a detailed look at a 2001 21 Ventura. Just my luck though, the boat had been sold to someone a couple of days before. If I remember correctly, they were asking $45k for it with a trailer and most of the options. Although I know for a fact that Venturas do sell, they probably don�t sell very quickly because of their competition in the 21 ft. bow rider class. Let�s face it, at first glance, a new 21 Ventura is a 21ft. bow rider, that costs an outrageous $50k. It isn�t sexy or cool looking like many other bow riders and it costs about $20k more to boot. If I was only going to ski or cruise around on a nice lake, I wouldn�t buy one either. I also wouldn�t buy one if I were a hardcore offshore fisherman favoring instead a center console. With that being said, who would buy one? Well, I would for one. It is a family friendly offshore fishing boat. As a 21ft. bow rider, it has all the amenities of any other 21ft. bow rider plus a head, which is a rare feature in that class. As an offshore fishing boat, it is at least as seaworthy as the 210 Outrage with big fuel capacity as well as a built in livewell. Furthermore, it wouldn�t be anymore inconvenient to fish out of a Ventura than any other duel console type fishing boat. As a side note, if you dive or ski, the Euro transom with swim platform comes in real handy. Personally, I like the 21 Ventura. The only thing you can knock is the price but that can be said of all Whalers.
TRAFFICLAWYER	posted 09-19-2002 04:16 PM ET (US) JimH "having unsold venturas seems fairly common" What do you do take inventory or just swag?
TRAFFICLAWYER	posted 09-19-2002 04:23 PM ET (US) diveorfish; Your right, if you want sexy or cool, than the boxy, unattractive looking whalers would'nt be first choice. But as an offshore general purpose, I think they're perfectly suited. Mind you I'm not defending the dual console concept since I'm buying a 31' Jupiter. Yo.
lhg	posted 09-19-2002 04:27 PM ET (US) One Whaler dealer told me Ventura's are slow sellers. He said he "can't give them away".
jimh	posted 09-19-2002 04:32 PM ET (US) Well, it just happened that I was looking at that website (Mertaugh's) the other day and noticed he had 3 unsold Ventura's. Then stlawrence says his dealer has unsold 2001 stock. Last time I was at the local dealer he had an unsold Ventura from a year or so before. Last boatshow I went to the Whaler dealer had an unsold Ventura with a big price cut. Yes, my sample size is small perhaps, but I do get the impression that they don't fly off the floor like 170-MONTAUKs. As others point out, for a bowrider style boat the hull is quite expensive. Certainly it is a quality boat and every bit a Whaler, it is just that often people seeking bowriders are going to use them in relatively protected water and may not want to pay double the price of similar boats. There was also a recent boat test of "family boats" which included a VENTURA. The boat came priced out at $ 44,000. A very similar Bayliner boat was under $20,000. I can see how it could be a tough sell to convince a guy with a cottage on a lake that he needs to buy a boat that costs more than twice as much as another which is suitable for the purpose. I think the boat has strong appeal to women. My wife was insisting we buy a VENTURA for quite a while, but I wanted an OUTRAGE. We settled on a REVENGE.
diveorfish	posted 09-19-2002 05:46 PM ET (US) Trafficlawyer: Bite your tongue, Whalers are beautiful. I should have said �not gaudy� as opposed to �not sexy or cool.� I think you misunderstood me. I really like the 21 Ventura and I also like the dual console. You have nothing to defend. I just can�t believe I misspelled dual in my earlier post. Also what is a Jupiter?
jimh	posted 09-19-2002 06:22 PM ET (US) One reason a spouse might like a VENTURA (or other dual console designs) is the equality of the seating: the helm seat and the passenger seat are equal. In a center console, the helmsman gets the best seat and everyone else gets a subordinate quality seat. In a VENTURA (and also in a REVENGE) the seats are the same for helm and passenger locations.
David Ratusnik	posted 09-19-2002 06:58 PM ET (US) No jimh, No. The wife sits right up on half the leaning post with her very own foot stool any time she wishes.My center console boat practices gender equity when cruising. She doesn't go fishing so I get the leaning post all to myself. Nice try!!! David
TRAFFICLAWYER	posted 09-19-2002 07:56 PM ET (US) lhg; I have had three Jupiter/Contender/Intrepid dealers tell me they couldnt give away a whaler with an optimax and/or that the trade value was much lower than if it was powered by honda,yamaha or suzuki.
TRAFFICLAWYER	posted 09-19-2002 08:02 PM ET (US) Jimh; some validity in your bayliner/whaler analogy,however by that very logic, Why spend $70+K for the new 24 outrage when one can go purchase the trophy? To each their own! Like you say the ventura is from the same womb of quality. However,Your equality or reference to the helm station and the person in the port seat of a ventura somehow subordinate sucks! oops!! lacks your typical creative genius!
TRAFFICLAWYER	posted 09-19-2002 08:06 PM ET (US) Jimh/lhg ; P.S. lots of 28/29 Conquests sitiing around dealers too, number of dealers have leftovers. Maybe attributable to the upper end price tag? Jimh take a swag!
TRAFFICLAWYER	posted 09-19-2002 08:11 PM ET (US) diveorfish; OK, I bit my tongue. Jupiter's can be found on www.jupitermarine.com P.S. Jimh/lhg; I hope you realize this is all tongue in cheek! hee,hee!!!!!!!
jimh	posted 09-19-2002 09:45 PM ET (US) trafficlawyer--You misread my remarks. The Ventura seating promotes equality. Both seats are equal. The typical center console favors the pilot. The passenger either has to sit up front ahead of the console or in the back by the noisy, roaring 2-stroke engine...
jimh	posted 09-19-2002 09:48 PM ET (US) In big center console boats where offshore fishing is the intended use, moving up to (and paying for) Whaler quality can be a good investment--it might save your life. So a $70,000 Whaler is more marketable against a $30,000 Bayliner for these customers than the VENTURA might be.
jimh	posted 09-19-2002 09:50 PM ET (US) trafficlawyer--You misread my remarks. The Ventura seating promotes equality. Both seats are equal. The typical center console favors the pilot. The passenger either has to sit up front ahead of the console or in the back by the noisy, roaring 2-stroke engine...