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Author Topic:   New Whaler without Mercury Engine
Fbray posted 06-05-2003 10:34 AM ET (US)   Profile for Fbray   Send Email to Fbray  
Can you still purchase a new whaler without the mercury engine? A friend wants to purchase a whaler with a honda. I have a 2002 22 foot Dauntless with a 225 Honda (works great) but I was told by someone that the factory will no longer ship a boat to a dealer without a mercury engine installed. Is this true?
FYI: My Daunltees was made in 2002 but has the 2001 design. That was fine with me as I preferred it to the newer design but I figure that I got this version because I ordered it without the engine.
Thanks
bsmotril posted 06-05-2003 12:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for bsmotril  Send Email to bsmotril     
Meeks Marine in Houston TX had several leftover 2001-2002 22 Dauntlesses with Hondas and Yamahas. At least they did a few months back. BiGGG discounts also.
BillS
Bigshot posted 06-05-2003 02:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
As far as I know no more unrigged hulls for 03 EXCEPT the CPD division. A 19' guardian is only $24k unrigged....ouch!
lhg posted 06-05-2003 03:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
But Nick, YOU could get one for less than that! Add a 150 HP engine for 7500, black, white or gray, and you're at the same price as a new Nantucket. Makes sense to me.
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 06-05-2003 04:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for TRAFFICLAWYER    
My 03 255 Conquest shipped with a Merc which the dealer removed and replaced with the motors of my choice, Yamaha twin 200's. hpdi
When you purchase a boat new you can get anything you desire, last year at the ft. lauderdale show a number of dealers stated they would repower with any power I wanted. So don't get sucked into purchasing a new boat unless you're getting exactly what you want which is by the way one of the compelling reasons some folks don't buy Whalers anymore, lack of choice.
lhg posted 06-05-2003 07:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
I hear that sales of Century boats have plummeted since they made the Yamaha engines mandatory with the boat. No other brands are allowed on Centurys, no consumer choice.

For me, I can't imagine why anyone would want a Whaler with anything BUT a Mercury!

hugehugo posted 06-05-2003 07:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for hugehugo  Send Email to hugehugo     
Insist on the Honda or buy an unrigged Grady. It is all about reliability.
Dick posted 06-05-2003 09:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
I have yet to hear of any problems with the Merc 4 strokes.
I find it amusing that people want to hang a Yamaha 4 stroke on a Whaler but not a black Yamaha with Merc decals.
The main objection I have with Honda is the lack of dealers who can provide service.

The Grady is a nice boat but they will sink, a Whaler won't.

Dick

jaccoserv posted 06-05-2003 09:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for jaccoserv  Send Email to jaccoserv     
lhg,

Do you know what the $24k includes? If it's possible to get a 19 Guardian and 150 Merc for $31,500 loaded like a Nantucket, one would be foolish not to. Now if the $24,000 doesn't include rails, seating, console, lights... in other words a bare hull, than we're not comparing apples to apples here.

I love the idea of buying a brand new/out of print Whaler and it seems like a great idea, I just don't know of anyone who has done it. I see prices here all day long and see posts about how people are going to get a CPD boat, has anyone done it?

jaccoserv posted 06-05-2003 10:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for jaccoserv  Send Email to jaccoserv     
....Or a trailer
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 06-05-2003 10:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for TRAFFICLAWYER    
Dick:

Let me tell you whats really amusing.

Why Merc would place a quality product like the OEM F225 on a quality boat like the Whaler and have cheesy,old fashioned 70's style crapola mercury analog guages for this engine rather than the yamaha digital gauges with the fuel management package is beyond reason. Must have been the same morons working for Mercury that designed the the Opticarp.

Aldog posted 06-05-2003 10:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for Aldog  Send Email to Aldog     
My local Sea Ray/ Whaler dealer will not only not talk about any other power but will be brash and let you walk away to buy something else.

Won't even price just a hull.

TRAFFICLAWYER posted 06-05-2003 10:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for TRAFFICLAWYER    
Aldog:

Walk away, being a searay dealer says enough, probably an ex buy here pay here salesman. Plenty of competent dealers will accomodate your needs. I understand you can purchase a blank hull from the canadian dealers.

Dick posted 06-05-2003 10:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
Trafficlawyer

There is nothing wrong with analog guages They have worked great for years, I believe the Merc smart guages are available at an up charge but I don't have the info here at home to confirm it.

Seems to me that you have had a hard on for Merc for some problems that seem to have been resolved. If not, you have a bitch if they were resolved quit knocking them.

I have managed or worked at Merc dealerships since 1969 and have never had a warranty problem with them. The only reason they are #1 is customer satisfaction.

Dick

TRAFFICLAWYER posted 06-06-2003 08:46 AM ET (US)     Profile for TRAFFICLAWYER    
Dick:
I don't particulary have a 'hard-on' for Merc other than expressing my view that my anecdotal experience with Merc was lousy and I lost money on the product. I feel that the company, engine division, has been a total loser in the high end hp motors with no viable product to offer. Mark my words,one day in the near future all these opticarps will be obsolete, its just not a viable product. Just walk into any high & dry marina and you'll see everything in the way of vendors with yamaha dominating the outboard marketplace. As far as gauges, why anyone would want to plunk down big bucks for a new motor and purchase old fashioned difficult to read gauges is beyond me, but at least when buying a new product you can tell the salesguy you want it powered with honda,susuki or anything else and responsive dealers will provide it. Personally I dont care what anyone's motor choice is, just expressing my response to the poster re: motor choices.
dukhawk posted 06-06-2003 09:37 AM ET (US)     Profile for dukhawk  Send Email to dukhawk     
I just ordered a CPD 17 Guardian w/ a 90 4s Mercury. They'll sell it any way you want. The pricing was ok, but not breathtaking, and once you add the amenities and factor in whatever incremental increase attends the new hull design so you're comparing apples to apples it probably any better a deal than buying a stripped down hull from a dealer (I didn't need a trailer and couldn't get a dealer to order one without a bunch of bells and whistles I'm not interested in). The CPD will sell with or without a motor, and outfitted with a Yamaha if youlike, but the pricing is too high to make it attractive.

Any truth to the 4s Merc 90- is- a -yamaha- in- merc- cowling info?

dfmcintyre posted 06-06-2003 09:40 AM ET (US)     Profile for dfmcintyre  Send Email to dfmcintyre     
Regarding "crapola mercury analog guages", or any analog gauge for that matter, in certain instances an analog is the gauge of choice.

The aircraft industry found that out the hard way, when the engineers tried to go digital and the pilots hated it. It takes too long to interpret 2453rpm vs just being able to _glance_ at a needle and knowing it's in the right position or not.

Sometime tech advances work, sometimes not.... Don't get me started on laser sight systems on pistols.

Don

Jarhead posted 06-06-2003 10:06 AM ET (US)     Profile for Jarhead  Send Email to Jarhead     
Don..

I find the Dot scopes [UltraDot] on pistols works for me.

Tried it once and never looked back. Quick acquision with both eyes open and quick repeat shots.

I apologize for the off topic post...

HAPPYJIM posted 06-06-2003 11:06 AM ET (US)     Profile for HAPPYJIM  Send Email to HAPPYJIM     
Iron sights or nite sights the only way to go.
Nothing to fail or get salt water on when you are out in your Whaler.
Jarhead posted 06-06-2003 12:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jarhead  Send Email to Jarhead     
Your right there HAPPYJIM.

I carry a S&W model 4006 [40 cal. SS semi-auto] on my Whaler.

Oh yeah... No scope. :)

gf posted 06-06-2003 12:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for gf  Send Email to gf     

I see late model Whalers rigged with Yamaha and OMC/Bombardier engines all the time, so I'm not sure how "strict" they are on the only Mercury mantra.

And yes, the Yamaha F75/90/100 and F115 are functionally the same engine as the Mercury counterparts.

lhg posted 06-06-2003 02:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
First of all, all of us here should have learned by now, myself included, to not respond to this LAWYER guy. Guess it's time to live up to that. He's just another "dakota" type anarchist, except instead of anti-Conservative with a vengeance, it's anti-Mercury hate mongering, with a vengeance.

Secondly, he doesn't know what he's talking about, as most of these types don't. Regarding the 225 4-stroke, Mercury has actually improved it over the Yamaha model. It is quieter at speed, with a superior hood design, handles the Smart Craft technology which is way ahead of anything Yamaha has, and also handles the Smart Craft related electronic engine controls, which Yamaha does not have. The bottom line is that if you're in the market for one of these 225 4-strokes, you're better off with the Mercury version! Incidentally, Mercury's soon to be released 250 HP supercharged 4-stroke, also with the above technology, and with less cubes, will blow this first generation heavyweight Yamaha 4-stroke engine right out of the water. Let's wait and see how long it takes the Japanese manufacturers to begin the copies of it. They're probably working on the copies already.

Finally, regarding LAWYER'S comments about Mercury not producing good V-6 engines, and about to lose market share to Yamaha, just visit the waters of Southeast FL, from Vero Beach down to Key West, and all you see are Mercurys, single, double, triple, and quadruple installations on the outboard boats. There are thousands of Optimax's, EFI's and Carbs down there, doing perfectly fine, day after day, and holding up the BEST in the salt. Yamahas are the second most noticeable, even though by less than half, with the rest occasionally visible, as the old OMC's gradually die out from old age.

One might also check out the Bass boat markets, and the outboard performance/racing marketplace, where speed and power count. Mercury has dominated both for 40 years now. When you buy HP from Mercury, you get what you pay for and then some. The HP ratings are conservative. With Yamaha, you can get dinged 10% on the HP output, and still pay more! Then there are propellers, another field where Mercury develops the designs, and everybody else copies. Nobody has more varieties of propeller offerings, for more boating applications.

Do we even want to talk about the I/O market, where Mercury has no competition at all? OMC and Yamaha both tried to break into this and gave it up fast.

So it's time to give Mercury, the only US manufacturer left in the business, a break. I believe that all of the engine brands, even the Japanese, and including the old OMC's, basically give good reliable performance, inspite of occasional lemons from all, so take the outboard brand hate mongering & "Opticrap" over to the other boating sites, where this type of comment is more readily accepted.

Regarding analog gauges, there is nothing wrong with them at all. Many prefer them on boats. Just check out the high end auto market. I have yet to see a digital tach read-out on an expensive auto.

Bigshot posted 06-06-2003 02:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
For those who are interested. The 19 Guardian was in White with a Montauk console, steering, and seat(s). No rails but I do not want them on a classic 18. I would have my bud fabricate a low profile rail like on the bigger outrages or SeaCrafts. As with the Montauk, I hate climbing over that rail.

Bare hull Ft Lauderdale marine estimates about $20k. So a 19 Guardian which is built to commercial specs and carries a 175hp rating(but not sure) is way more enticing to me than a Brunswick nantucket.

I AM THE MAN FROM NANTUCKET!

The 17 alert was $7400 for an 03 or $6900 for a 02, both in white. The boat is basically a bare hull with a glass thwart seat, mini side console and steering. Both boats come standard with the lights, front hatch(s), cleats, lifting eyes, etc. No matter bare hull or fitted.

Bigshot posted 06-06-2003 02:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
PS....I HATE digital guages. Had them on my Yammie and on an OMC.....YUK. Fuel guage was always wrong and who cares about a tripmeter. The fuel meter(flowscan) is cool if you get hat EXPENSIVE option but a real flowscan is under $200.

Hard to read in certain sunlight and tougher when backlit at night. they also have to "catch up" when accelerating or decelerating quickly.

TRAFFICLAWYER posted 06-06-2003 04:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for TRAFFICLAWYER    
lhg: Since you're a Mercury employee, I understand fully that you are just a talking head with no objectivity regarding the company or products that directly provides your paycheck. Hopefully you're not sucking up company time while surfing the net. I'm thrilled to hear that Mercury is devloping a four stroke and hopefully it will create some newer reliable technology and maybe the far-east will enter into some joint marketing agreement with Merc and end-users will ultimately benefit. It always seems that any critiqe of Mercury you take personally and your reaction is to demean the customers. You as a representitive of Mercury should be somewhat more concerned about customer relations rather than feebly putting down what you perceive to be negativism. Remember the site is a forum for the exchange of differing viewpoints and you are certainly entitled to yours but when you belittle customers of your employer you do a great diservice to Mercury and it's responsible employees.
lhg posted 06-06-2003 05:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Above diatribe by LAWYER, as un-lawyerlike as it sounds, should be ignored. I have never worked for Mercury, Boston Whaler or Brunswick. I bought my first Boston Whaler in 1968, and my first Mercury outboard in 1970.

During my life I have been a College Professor (Architectural Design), Professional Registered Architect and Licensed Insurance Agent/Broker. I have also assisted JimH with the start-up of the Classic Boston Whaler portion of his CW website.

TRAFFICLAWYER posted 06-06-2003 05:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for TRAFFICLAWYER    
OK, a college professor, Whoa, I'm impressed but I certainly ascribe to that axiom that those that can't do teach. I seem to have a clear recollection during one of our pevious forays your info said Mercury marketing or sales. Let's face it you're going to tout Mercury and I'm going to tout other manufacturers, so what? As a former 'Professor' you can't be that thin-skinned,Or are you? Remember, the name of this web-site is Whaler not Mercury and I am always proud of my Whaler boats,so if you have a problem with Merc bashing, too bad.
lhg posted 06-06-2003 06:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
No, it's not too bad. And you need not be impressed, either.

The point is, this is the new and newer Whaler portion of this website, and a fact of life is that Whaler and Mekrcury are a part of the Brunswick Corp, and 99% of new Whalers have, and will continue to, come with Mercury Outboards. So cricizing Mercury in here, even with false information & heresay, only has the effect of hurting Boston Whaler, their ability to sell new Whalers, and offends owners of these new Whalers. I just don't see where that gets you, except destroying the credibility of everything you say, and maybe some cheap thrill besides. You might as well quit wasting your time with this site, as in reality, with an admitted Mercury bashing agenda, of which you seem to be quite proud, you're not very welcome from my point of view. You're giving attorneys that frequent this site a bad name most don't deserve, if you even are one.
Which I doubt.

jaccoserv posted 06-06-2003 06:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for jaccoserv  Send Email to jaccoserv     
I don't even want to get involved but I have to say that there is no way that 99% of Whalers HAVE come with Mercurys. 99% DO come with Mercurys now however. I'm going to avoid offering an opinion as to what percent have been rigged with Merc, OMC, Yamaha etc. traditionally as noone has that info.
Jarhead posted 06-06-2003 07:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jarhead  Send Email to Jarhead     
I believe the post reads 99% of "new" Whalers have come with....:)
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 06-06-2003 08:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for TRAFFICLAWYER    
lhg:
I'm taken aback by the animous you harbor toward the legal profession. I recall that you have displayed your negativity toward any lawyer that has come on this site and uttered the least derogatory/negative perceived comment toward the opticarp. I can only attribute this profession bashing as some deficiency on your part. Maybe you were the losing defendant or losing plaintiff, who knows, but to just bash an entire profession due to a difference of opinion,hmmm, I guess stupid is as stupid does. What next plumbers?,electricians?
By the way, at the last Whaler dealer, [you were'nt there putz] meeting, one of the foremost reasons expressed to Mr. Myers as to the loss of market share and customer disatisfaction of Whaler's was the POS MERCURY that comes affixed to the majority of product.
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 06-06-2003 08:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for TRAFFICLAWYER    
And with all due respect, your point of view ranks second to my pups diarehea.
jaccoserv posted 06-07-2003 02:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for jaccoserv  Send Email to jaccoserv     
Jarhead, you are correct, and I was saying that I know that not to be true. The Whaler/Merc. relationship that exists now is relatively young. Up until a few years ago, this was not the case. Until then you could get a "new" Whaler w/ anything you want on the back.
Whalerdan posted 06-07-2003 09:01 AM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerdan  Send Email to Whalerdan     
At the risk of being audited by jimh, and nothing personel to you guys.....
I hate Mercurys and Lawyers.
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 06-07-2003 09:08 AM ET (US)     Profile for TRAFFICLAWYER    
Whalerdan:
Even I don't HATE mercury, but your moronic response is taken under consideration and I also hate plumbers, stems from a clogged potty I once had.
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 06-07-2003 09:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for TRAFFICLAWYER    
Lets get back to the posters point, Whalers are available with the engine choice you desire, I know since I have a 2003 255 Conquest with Yamaha power. All the other mudslingers here just insulting have ZERO experience either purchasing a new Whaler or getting their choice of power, so they're speaking without knowledge.
alkar posted 06-07-2003 09:17 AM ET (US)     Profile for alkar  Send Email to alkar     
Larry, given the pervasive dissatisfaction with lawyers and our legal system, I think few folks would claim to be a lawyer if it were not so. Many lawyers go out of their way to AVOID advertising their profession. It's hard enough to make friends as it is.

Mercury and Yamaha both make wonderful motors. Neither experiences failure at the rate the internet antagonists suggest. I have Hondas on my boat, and I love them, but I'd be delighted with a new pair of Mercurys or Yamahas or Suzukis. As others have observed, almost every manufacturer occasionally builds a lemon. If any of them did it regularly, they'd go the way of the YUGO.

On laser sites: The high quality systems are durable, and they work well for some applications, but they can be a distraction too. I carry a Glock .40 with trijicon sights and a Crimson Trace laser system. The laser is a nice back-up if lighting or orientation make it otherwise difficult to get a good sight-picture - but I keep the automatic laser turned off most of the time.

Sorry for feeding the off-topic post - but at least it's a benign one.

Dick posted 06-07-2003 10:45 AM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
trafficlawyer

Lets talk about that new Conquest.
At the present time no recreational Whaler is shipped from the factory without Mercury power and rigging.
Yes, you can have a different brand of engine if your dealer is willing to make a trade and re-rig and you are willing to shell out more money. Of course the extra money is no problem for a lawyer at the rates they charge.

You may have Yamaha power on your Conquest, if you have one, but I feel that you are the one speaking with zero knowledge. As a lawyer, if you are one, I would think that you would do the research to get correct information.

Dick

TRAFFICLAWYER posted 06-07-2003 12:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for TRAFFICLAWYER    
Dick: If you are a Dick, What the hell are you talking about,anybody buying a new Whaler or for that matter most any boat can get a choice of motors. I doubt you have purchased a new Whaler or for that matter any new boat recently.
Jarhead posted 06-07-2003 02:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jarhead  Send Email to Jarhead     
trafficlawyer..

Your last post made a poor argument. Hope you do better for your clients in court.

Dick stated that a choice of engines was available at an added cost but new Whalers' are shipped with a Merc.

BTW I just bought a new 160 Dauntless with a factory rigged 4c 115 hp. Mercury and that's just fine with me..

Dick posted 06-07-2003 07:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
trafficlawyer

My last new Whaler purchase was in 1999 while I was parts manager at the dealership. If you are interested you can find it listed in the for sale section. Oooops, You wouldn't want it as it has a black engine.

If you would read a post and absorb the contents prior to responding your responces might become intelligent. "Engage brain prior to opening mouth"

As I stated all recreational Whalers are shipped from the factory with Merc controls, Merc rigging and a Merc motor.
Your dealer can then hang any brand of power on it you want if he is willing to put a Merc or two into his inventory and you pay the additional costs.

jimh posted 06-08-2003 01:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
TRAFFICLAWYER, you write:

"At the last Whaler dealer... meeting, one of the foremost reasons expressed to Mr. Myers as to the loss of market share and customer disatisfaction [sic] of Whaler's was the POS MERCURY that comes affixed to the majority of product."

Were you in attendance at this meeting? Or is this hearsay?

jimh posted 06-08-2003 01:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
This discussion about ordering a new Boston Whaler without the Mercury engines reminds me of the scene in the movie Five Easy Pieces where Jack Nicholson's character tries to order an omlette.

See http://www.filmsite.org/five.html for an excerpt from the movie's dialogue.

As the movie demonstrates, there is a way around any rule, if you are willing to pay the extra money.

hooter posted 06-09-2003 10:33 AM ET (US)     Profile for hooter    
None o'you boys and girls has picked up on the fact that this playntraffic poster-child is likely just a' alias for the top-water ghost we kilt over a month ago. Vocabulary, grammar, syntax, creative fantasy and girlish, potty-mouth references ("my pup's diarrhea ...oooh!", all bespeak the same troll. You will recall that dakota ghost occasionally spoke of herself as a lawyer. This hee-shee chick has got more people stuffed inside that crazed head than Joanne Woodward in "Three Faces of Eve". Larry just seems tbe its latest obsession.
Bigshot posted 06-10-2003 12:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
I don't know who or what is behind that name but I will say Larry was correct in saying to Trafficlawyer: "You're giving attorneys that frequent this site a bad name most don't deserve, if you even are one."

Many of my friends are attorneys and notice I said attorney. They do not refer to themselves as Lawyers. After reading this rubbish, I now understand why.

Dick posted 06-11-2003 12:21 AM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
I wish I knew why we let ourselves get suckered in by these trollers. I try not to respond but it seems like I bite the lure at some point.

It should be a pretty good sign that we have a troller when their e-mail address is not posted. Anyone with nothing to hide should have no problem showing their e-mail address.

Dick

BWdaunt18 posted 06-13-2003 03:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for BWdaunt18  Send Email to BWdaunt18     
I bought a new Whaler last year frm Skipper Buds and I did not have the option of power other than Merc. There may be a proprietary relationship.

There is another dealer about 100 miles away, a local independent. He will install any motor desired.

Stopped into Buds this week and Buds no longer sells Whalers.

I stopped into the local Yamaha dealer this week. I currently own an Opti 135 but I might replace it next year with a Yamaha 150 when the Merc warranty is out. I have experienced no problems, but I am concerned about the Merc reliability.

lhg posted 06-13-2003 04:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
If you get a Yamaha 150, get the 150 EFI model (OX66), as to get an HPDI won't give you any different reliability & peace of mind then the Optimax can give.
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 06-13-2003 05:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for TRAFFICLAWYER    
lhg: just never gives up, you've never owned a hpdi or for that matter an optimax so what makes the expert, just cause you're employed by Merc?.
Perry posted 06-13-2003 09:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
Isn't Yamaha coming out with a 150 4 stroke next year?
prm1177 posted 06-16-2003 07:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for prm1177  Send Email to prm1177     
I own a 1998 Optimax 135 and have no problems to report. Nice engine, fuel efficient, with excellent performance.

While I have no experience with the larger DFI motors, prudence dictates looking around the net for postings about problem models. What seems to be the norm is that most manufacturers will occasionally have specific HP models which, in a given year, might be prone to service problems. The Optimax reliability issues seem confined to a limited HP range over a limited number of model years, and not to all motors with the Optimax branding.

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