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Author Topic:   Raising The Engine

Jarhead posted 07-08-2003 05:12 PM ET (US)
I've read, with great interest, about the benefits of raising an engine a hole or two. Seems like everyone is in agreement [no small feat with this group :)] on this point.
I've owned my 160 Dauntless for about three months now and have no real problem with the engine mounted on the first set of holes. However it does steer on the hard side trimed in and if I trim out to where it steers better I do have some porpoising.
So today I called the dealership where I purchased my Whaler and told them my problem and what I wanted to do [raise the engine one set of holes]. To my surprise he said "sure thing, bring it in and we'll take care of it". No charge BTW..
Sorry about the long winded no real benefit post but I just had to share my good fortune news :)

prxmid posted 07-08-2003 05:29 PM ET (US)
I've also thought of raising the engine. Considering that anything over 100hp is 200+ unwieldy pounds, Is there a way to raise the engine with out taking it to the dealership?
Jarhead posted 07-08-2003 07:09 PM ET (US)
prxmid...
Go to Classic Whaler Performance forun. Click on Porpoising 160 Dauntless, scroll down to a post by Marlin [near the bottom].
He wrote a very good, easy to follow, tutorial on moving the engine.
Good luck...
jimh posted 07-08-2003 10:58 PM ET (US)
Or just click this hyperlink:
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/001796.html
Pointers are much more useful if they can be given as URIs. On some websites that is hard to do, but not here.
prxmid posted 07-09-2003 02:19 PM ET (US)
Thanks, pretty creative way of doing it. Not sure I'm that brave yet
JohnJ80 posted 07-10-2003 10:20 PM ET (US)
It is no big deal to pick the motor up. I thought it was going to be tough, but my wife and I did it in about 30 minutes - easily with no strain. Here is what you need:
- piece of wood to fit under skeg of motor on the ground.
- wheel chocks for trailer.
- trailer
- stern tie down straps to hold boat to trailer.
- 3/4" open end wrench
- 3/4" deep socket and socket ratchet handle (or two 3/4" open end wrenches)
- Silicon
- floor jack.
- phillips screwdriver
- knife
1. put the boat on the trailer and strap it down. Remove trailer from car and lay tongue on the ground. Position jack under trailer tongue at some point that is convenient.
2. block the wheels so the trailer can't move fore or aft.
3. put the motor all the way down.
4. slightly jack tongue so that skeg is on the board and there is slight tension.
5. Unbolt two top bolts (the ones in the holes on each side of motor) and remove.
6. loosen but do not remove two lower sliding bolts. For most whalers these bolts are blind and you will need to remove the cover over them that is screwed down with phillips head screws and siliconed.
7. Have someone keep motor straight up - it may want to move one way or the other off of vertical.
8. Jack tongue up slowly until you get to the next hole or whatever hole you want. When you are there, reinsert bolts in the top.
9. Tighten them all down as tight as you can get them. Clean off old silicon from cover plate, liberally apply more Si and replace.
10. Check bolts after operation to verify that they are tight.
Some like to put Si in each of the four bolts. I don't because there wasn't any in there and when the bolts came out they and the wood were bone dry. I think if you get it tight it is not a problem and the Si can just make it messier - but others have different opinions on this.
j

JohnJ80 posted 07-10-2003 10:21 PM ET (US)
Oh, forgot to add that I did this on my D15 with a motor that weighs 324 lbs - no problem.
j
Stonacek posted 07-16-2003 11:40 PM ET (US)
It is reassuring to see so many consistent comments on this subject over the last year. I have a 2001 Dauntless, with the notch in the transom, that planes like a dog. 90%of the time though, when it's just me and the dog, it's no big deal. Other 10% is disappointing. Plan had been to get a new prop, then possibly add fin, then adjust motor. Basis this post, sounds like recommended order is motor height, fin, prop. Question however is this....consensus seems to be 1-1.5 inches above lowest point of transom, with no notch this is pretty straightforward. However with the notch, can folks comment on what engine heigh seems to work the best and what is position of anti cav plate relative to transom height at "the notch" level. (not lowest point but probably getting mostly flat water).
I'll probably take it to my merc dealer to do the adjusting though. Congrats to you brave folks doing it yourself.
Dick posted 07-17-2003 12:00 AM ET (US)
My Whaler rigging sheet is from 1999 but for what it is worth the specs for the 16DA are one hole up for all motors.
If there was no silicone in the mounting holes someone screwed up. Use silicone, LifeCalk or 3M 4200 in any holes drilled in the hull.
Dick
JohnJ80 posted 07-17-2003 06:13 PM ET (US)
If you put on the fin too, I think the 1.5" is fine since the fin will keep a 'lid' on the water over the prop. I noticed that my boat got a lot quieter with the fin in place. Qualitatively, I think it is because the water was 'thicker' - less air mixed in, which has to be good for making the prop bite well. If you don't put a fin on then maybe going one hole less than all the way up would be fine but if you get the v-shaped rooster tails, you will need to go up again anyhow.
If the fin or AV plate is riding right at the interface between water and air, then its in the right place. Located there, I can't see it creating much drag unless the stern goes down - and then it would want to push it back up again.
What you need to do is to make sure that when you are all the way up (or any up) you are still peeing out cooling water.
j
Seawolf posted 07-20-2003 12:47 AM ET (US)
Having just gone through the same drill to tune my 13' Sport, the best sequence for me was raise motor, prop and then lastly fin if necessary.
My boat also wallowed, so I bought a doel-fin and installed it with just one bolt in each side. It vastly improved performance but also used more gas. Then I read the posts about raising the engine, which I did and it further improved performance. The rpm's at wot were at the bottom of the scale so I replaced the propellor, which needed replacing anyway, with an inch less pitch. Still not satisfied because of noise and vibration, I then removed the fins. It ran even better but now it was underpropped without the drag that the fins caused. Next step was to have the prop cupped more (only $15 the best deal in town). Finally, now, the combo is sweet, exactly how I thought it should be. You need to experiment a bit, but it's worthwhile.
To tell the truth, I did a sloppy job of drilling the hole for one of the fins, and it was little loose. That caused some vibration.
JohnJ80 posted 07-20-2003 11:24 AM ET (US)
The 'notch level' has nothing to do with it. It is all about getting the AV plate to the right place with respect to the bottom of the boat. Either way, you have a transom distance that you need to traverse with teh lower unit of the motor. The power is applied at the prop and the amount that the prop is up or down determines the leverage applied to the boat.
So, measure the AV plate to the bottom when the motor is trimmed down. By first set of holes, i am assuming this means all the way down?
Anyhow, it sure sounds like your motor is too low. That is exactly what mine did when it was too low. You are going to have to experiment but I would go at least to one hole from all the way up and maybe all the way up.
Most dealers invariably mount the motors too low (like 90% or so). It is just easier for them since the average boater doesn't have a clue. It is less problem for them since they don't have to take the motor out, check and experiment (every boat is different). They are guaranteed never to have questions about prop blow out (noisy) or to have a cooling water supply problem since they stick the lower unit down so deep. But they do it by sacrificing probably half of the ride quality and about 30% of the performance of the boat. That is just not an acceptable compromise.
Don't let them try to talk you out of it. Remember, you aren't talking to someone that has any real experience at this. Realistically, they just don't know how to do this. If it wasn't a whaler dealer, then for sure they don't know.
also don't be afraid of moving the motor yourself. It is really easy - sounds tougher than it is. I was a little scared of doing it my self the first time, but it is really simple. Literally, no big deal! It will be the easiest way for you to get this right if you can do it right at the launch. Put her in, try it, haul it and try it again.
After you move it the first time, subsequent moves will only take you 15-20 minutes. So, you can get the whole thing right in a couple of hours - and that includes adding the fin, moving the motor and changing a prop. None of this is hard. I'd help you, but I don't know where you are.
the hard steering will very likely be corrected by raising the motor and adding the fin - you have a lot less stuff in the water pushing against the steering gear. If not, you can fiddle with the little moveable skeg on the bottom of the motor.
I am sure you will be shocked at the difference. It will be like a whole new boat. give this a shot and report back so we can see what happened.
J

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Author	Topic: Raising The Engine
Jarhead	posted 07-08-2003 05:12 PM ET (US) I've read, with great interest, about the benefits of raising an engine a hole or two. Seems like everyone is in agreement [no small feat with this group :)] on this point. I've owned my 160 Dauntless for about three months now and have no real problem with the engine mounted on the first set of holes. However it does steer on the hard side trimed in and if I trim out to where it steers better I do have some porpoising. So today I called the dealership where I purchased my Whaler and told them my problem and what I wanted to do [raise the engine one set of holes]. To my surprise he said "sure thing, bring it in and we'll take care of it". No charge BTW.. Sorry about the long winded no real benefit post but I just had to share my good fortune news :)
prxmid	posted 07-08-2003 05:29 PM ET (US) I've also thought of raising the engine. Considering that anything over 100hp is 200+ unwieldy pounds, Is there a way to raise the engine with out taking it to the dealership?
Jarhead	posted 07-08-2003 07:09 PM ET (US) prxmid... Go to Classic Whaler Performance forun. Click on Porpoising 160 Dauntless, scroll down to a post by Marlin [near the bottom]. He wrote a very good, easy to follow, tutorial on moving the engine. Good luck...
jimh	posted 07-08-2003 10:58 PM ET (US) Or just click this hyperlink: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/001796.html Pointers are much more useful if they can be given as URIs. On some websites that is hard to do, but not here.
prxmid	posted 07-09-2003 02:19 PM ET (US) Thanks, pretty creative way of doing it. Not sure I'm that brave yet
JohnJ80	posted 07-10-2003 10:20 PM ET (US) It is no big deal to pick the motor up. I thought it was going to be tough, but my wife and I did it in about 30 minutes - easily with no strain. Here is what you need: - piece of wood to fit under skeg of motor on the ground. - wheel chocks for trailer. - trailer - stern tie down straps to hold boat to trailer. - 3/4" open end wrench - 3/4" deep socket and socket ratchet handle (or two 3/4" open end wrenches) - Silicon - floor jack. - phillips screwdriver - knife 1. put the boat on the trailer and strap it down. Remove trailer from car and lay tongue on the ground. Position jack under trailer tongue at some point that is convenient. 2. block the wheels so the trailer can't move fore or aft. 3. put the motor all the way down. 4. slightly jack tongue so that skeg is on the board and there is slight tension. 5. Unbolt two top bolts (the ones in the holes on each side of motor) and remove. 6. loosen but do not remove two lower sliding bolts. For most whalers these bolts are blind and you will need to remove the cover over them that is screwed down with phillips head screws and siliconed. 7. Have someone keep motor straight up - it may want to move one way or the other off of vertical. 8. Jack tongue up slowly until you get to the next hole or whatever hole you want. When you are there, reinsert bolts in the top. 9. Tighten them all down as tight as you can get them. Clean off old silicon from cover plate, liberally apply more Si and replace. 10. Check bolts after operation to verify that they are tight. Some like to put Si in each of the four bolts. I don't because there wasn't any in there and when the bolts came out they and the wood were bone dry. I think if you get it tight it is not a problem and the Si can just make it messier - but others have different opinions on this. j
JohnJ80	posted 07-10-2003 10:21 PM ET (US) Oh, forgot to add that I did this on my D15 with a motor that weighs 324 lbs - no problem. j
Stonacek	posted 07-16-2003 11:40 PM ET (US) It is reassuring to see so many consistent comments on this subject over the last year. I have a 2001 Dauntless, with the notch in the transom, that planes like a dog. 90%of the time though, when it's just me and the dog, it's no big deal. Other 10% is disappointing. Plan had been to get a new prop, then possibly add fin, then adjust motor. Basis this post, sounds like recommended order is motor height, fin, prop. Question however is this....consensus seems to be 1-1.5 inches above lowest point of transom, with no notch this is pretty straightforward. However with the notch, can folks comment on what engine heigh seems to work the best and what is position of anti cav plate relative to transom height at "the notch" level. (not lowest point but probably getting mostly flat water). I'll probably take it to my merc dealer to do the adjusting though. Congrats to you brave folks doing it yourself.
Dick	posted 07-17-2003 12:00 AM ET (US) My Whaler rigging sheet is from 1999 but for what it is worth the specs for the 16DA are one hole up for all motors. If there was no silicone in the mounting holes someone screwed up. Use silicone, LifeCalk or 3M 4200 in any holes drilled in the hull. Dick
JohnJ80	posted 07-17-2003 06:13 PM ET (US) If you put on the fin too, I think the 1.5" is fine since the fin will keep a 'lid' on the water over the prop. I noticed that my boat got a lot quieter with the fin in place. Qualitatively, I think it is because the water was 'thicker' - less air mixed in, which has to be good for making the prop bite well. If you don't put a fin on then maybe going one hole less than all the way up would be fine but if you get the v-shaped rooster tails, you will need to go up again anyhow. If the fin or AV plate is riding right at the interface between water and air, then its in the right place. Located there, I can't see it creating much drag unless the stern goes down - and then it would want to push it back up again. What you need to do is to make sure that when you are all the way up (or any up) you are still peeing out cooling water. j
Seawolf	posted 07-20-2003 12:47 AM ET (US) Having just gone through the same drill to tune my 13' Sport, the best sequence for me was raise motor, prop and then lastly fin if necessary. My boat also wallowed, so I bought a doel-fin and installed it with just one bolt in each side. It vastly improved performance but also used more gas. Then I read the posts about raising the engine, which I did and it further improved performance. The rpm's at wot were at the bottom of the scale so I replaced the propellor, which needed replacing anyway, with an inch less pitch. Still not satisfied because of noise and vibration, I then removed the fins. It ran even better but now it was underpropped without the drag that the fins caused. Next step was to have the prop cupped more (only $15 the best deal in town). Finally, now, the combo is sweet, exactly how I thought it should be. You need to experiment a bit, but it's worthwhile. To tell the truth, I did a sloppy job of drilling the hole for one of the fins, and it was little loose. That caused some vibration.
JohnJ80	posted 07-20-2003 11:24 AM ET (US) The 'notch level' has nothing to do with it. It is all about getting the AV plate to the right place with respect to the bottom of the boat. Either way, you have a transom distance that you need to traverse with teh lower unit of the motor. The power is applied at the prop and the amount that the prop is up or down determines the leverage applied to the boat. So, measure the AV plate to the bottom when the motor is trimmed down. By first set of holes, i am assuming this means all the way down? Anyhow, it sure sounds like your motor is too low. That is exactly what mine did when it was too low. You are going to have to experiment but I would go at least to one hole from all the way up and maybe all the way up. Most dealers invariably mount the motors too low (like 90% or so). It is just easier for them since the average boater doesn't have a clue. It is less problem for them since they don't have to take the motor out, check and experiment (every boat is different). They are guaranteed never to have questions about prop blow out (noisy) or to have a cooling water supply problem since they stick the lower unit down so deep. But they do it by sacrificing probably half of the ride quality and about 30% of the performance of the boat. That is just not an acceptable compromise. Don't let them try to talk you out of it. Remember, you aren't talking to someone that has any real experience at this. Realistically, they just don't know how to do this. If it wasn't a whaler dealer, then for sure they don't know. also don't be afraid of moving the motor yourself. It is really easy - sounds tougher than it is. I was a little scared of doing it my self the first time, but it is really simple. Literally, no big deal! It will be the easiest way for you to get this right if you can do it right at the launch. Put her in, try it, haul it and try it again. After you move it the first time, subsequent moves will only take you 15-20 minutes. So, you can get the whole thing right in a couple of hours - and that includes adding the fin, moving the motor and changing a prop. None of this is hard. I'd help you, but I don't know where you are. the hard steering will very likely be corrected by raising the motor and adding the fin - you have a lot less stuff in the water pushing against the steering gear. If not, you can fiddle with the little moveable skeg on the bottom of the motor. I am sure you will be shocked at the difference. It will be like a whole new boat. give this a shot and report back so we can see what happened. J