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Author Topic:   1998 OR-20 need advise

boxers posted 10-23-2003 11:14 PM ET (US)
I was cleaning up our boat this past weekend and noticed a problem. The starboard in-floor fish locker was back flowing water from the drain hole into the locker. The fish lockers have two drain plugs one in the bottom which drains directly through the hull(in my case on to the ground as the boat sits on the trailer). I keep the plugs in the through hull drains whenever the boat is in the water. The second drain plug is towards the stern and I assumed it drained into the bilge area. The second drain hole is smaller so I have always left the plug out. This is where I noticed the water re-entering the fish locker. Behind the fish locker is a storage area. I removed the inspection plate and sure enough it was full of water. Hopefully this area is supposed to drain to the bilge? Are we blocked? Any suggestions?
BarryGreen posted 10-24-2003 07:42 AM ET (US)
I have the same boat, with thru-hulls down through the hull that are normally plugged with the usual removable plugs. However, my aft drains from the in-deck wells are plumbed into a pump that drains out through a thru-hull above the waterline on the starboard transom. These aft drains in the deck-well are a flat plastic grate about 2 1/2" in diameter, and won't accept any sort of plug. The "deck-well" pump is controlled from a switch on the console just as the bilge pump is. I believe this was intended to be a way to circulate water through these deck wells to keep your catch healthy, and may have been an option.
If you pull out the horizontal hatch in the engine well and look forward towards the aft end of the fuel tank, do you see hoses from the aft end of each well that feed into a fairly large pump? Do you have a thru-hull on the starboard transom (not to be confused with the bilge pump drain that is on the starboard side just forward of the transom)?
I'm interested because I have leak somewhere aft that I have been unable to find so far. Sitting at the dock over a period of time it causes the areas under the inspection plates as well as the bilge to slowly fill, and if I have the bilge pump off (master battery switch off) will eventually cause the stern to flood. Not good for the Bennett trim tab pump.....
Barry

Swellmonster posted 10-24-2003 07:57 AM ET (US)
Same boat for me too.
The rear hole in the lockers open up to the bilge. If you open the bilge pump cover in the engine well, what do you see? Is your bilge full? You should be able to run a garden hose in your floor well with your lower hole plugged and the water should go down into the bilge. Bilge pump pump overboard?
wayne baker posted 10-24-2003 08:07 PM ET (US)
I have a 1997 20 outrage with in floor fish boxes. The rear drain on the boxes run to a pump just as Barry described. My boat has the fishing package option. This may be why some are equipted with pumps and others are not.
boxers posted 10-25-2003 11:13 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the help guys. I have a live well on the other side so I think our model has the fishing package. The boat is 300 miles away so on our next trip down to the coast I will run the pumps-there are two in the bilge area-this hope fully move the water out of that area. I will look for the waterlines as suggested too(and check their connections). I'm new to this boat and haven't quite figured it all out yet. It seems reasonable that the water would fill the fish lockers and could be pumped away BUT I didn't figure on the aft compartment filling with water! Since the starboard aft compartment is higher than the bilge area I'm not sure why the water should remain there? Possably the hose is loose and water which normally exits via the pump is getting into an area which was to remain dry. This is significant because the scuppers are back by the rear opening of the fish locker so any water entering via the scuppers could potentially travel into the fish locker and enter the small drain hole. No problem if the hoses to the pump are intact. But the problems Barry and I have experienced could be from a leak in the hose or its connections. My bilge is dry the compartment above it is not so this may explain the phenomenon.
Swellmonster posted 10-26-2003 02:49 PM ET (US)
This is getting fun. I have the fish package, the 500 gal rule livewell pump on the port side underneath the lil coverplate in the livewell. A bilge pump down below, in the rear center with a separate float switch next to it.
phatwhaler posted 10-27-2003 06:18 PM ET (US)
I have a the same boat with the fish package. My fish boxes are configured as follows.
1. I have the same scuppers on the sides of the hull that allow water into the fish boxes.
2. I also have the two drain plugs in the bottom of the fish boxes.
3. On the aft vertical surface of the boxes I have a plastic grate.
4. There are hoses that go from each grate to the pump that pumps the water over the side. Via the starboard thru-hull fitting. Which is one of those cheap Attwood white plastic deals.
5. There are also check valves that are in line between the pump and the grates. One of the valves could be malfunctioning allowing water to get back into the box even after you drain it.
As far as I know the fish package includes the deluxe leaning post. The leaning post has the livewell container with the raw water pump/ washdown pump installed inside it.
I guess that you guy dont't technically have the "fish-package" and or it is configured differently if you don't have the deluxe leaning post. I would just put some drain plugs in there or install a thru-hull in the transom with two hoses carrying the water out the fitting.
A couple of ways that water could be getting into your bilges is
1. Water is seeping through the cover.
2. There is crack in the 5200 that seals that Bilge piece that has the inspection cover installed in it. It's the piece that is bolted between the seats.
phatwhaler out.
boxers posted 10-27-2003 09:26 PM ET (US)
Phatwhaler,
You do indeed have the Phat OR-20. No leaning post here-sounds like a really cool set up. In the options catalog BW shows 3 configurations if memory serves.
1) pedestal seat
2) pedestal mounted leaning post
3) phat deluxe leaning post
If you bought new I am curious what that option cost. If we ever go fishing lets take your OR-20
wayne baker posted 10-29-2003 01:13 PM ET (US)
I thought the deluxe leaning post was an indicator for the fishing package. I have the leaning post with the large baitwell tank as well. I think the scuppers on the side of the hull are designed to drain the water off the deck of the boat not fill the fish boxes with water.The plug in the bottom of the box should be the only way to let water into the space. I know the scuppers on the side let in some water that finds its way over the lip, that the lid rest on.If anyone has been sucessfull if sealing up these fishbox lids I would like to know how. Adding sea water is not a good way to keep ice.

Swellmonster posted 11-07-2003 07:52 AM ET (US)
Did you find anything out yet?
wayne baker posted 11-10-2003 12:14 PM ET (US)
Nope, I must be the only one here with water intrusion problem in the fish box.
boxers posted 11-10-2003 06:39 PM ET (US)
I have not been back to check on the boat. We may go down this weekend-if not for sure on Thanksgiving. I will let you know what we find out thanks for checking.
boxers posted 12-01-2003 08:36 PM ET (US)
Just got back from the beach with a discovery as to why the water was not draining correctly from the starboard compartment behind the fish locker.
When the Yamaha F225 was installed the fuel line was routed through the drain hole...imagine that... from a certified Boston Whaler dealership that has been in business since the 1980s.
The drain hole which connects the bilge area to the adjoining compartment and was completely occluded by the presence of the fuel line. The line was rerouted and the problem solved.
Our 1998 Outrage may not be a classic whaler but it is one nice boat as compared with the Nantucket 190 when you compare features and power. It's rated for 225 HP, has a usable center console(with an enclosed electronics box) and in- floor fish lockers. Just food for thought if your in the market to spend $30K plus for a whaler. The OR-20 is $15k-$25k in the used market and can be upgraded to a large four stroke(OF YOUR CHOOSING) for about the cost of a similarly optioned Nantucket 190 new.
Thanks to all the Outrage 20 guys for your input.
phatwhaler posted 12-02-2003 01:08 PM ET (US)
Boxers,
How does your boat perform with that big engine on the back. I know my boat hates it when I put any additional weight in the back. The max engine weight according to Whaler is 540 Lbs. Do you have trim tabs to help? A pic with her sitting in the water would be fantastic.
Phatwhaler out.
Swellmonster posted 12-06-2003 08:36 AM ET (US)
Yepper! Our 20's are the last of the goodies!
boxers posted 12-07-2003 01:47 AM ET (US)
Swellmonster,
It turns my OR-20 was configured like yours with the water exiting the fish lockers from the rear drain and making its way to the bilge via gravity.
We got to put about 60 hours on the F225 Yamaha this summer and so far the engine is really quiet and more fuel efficient than the 200-2 stroke.
I re-read Wayne's comments and think maybe water comming through the scuppers is pooling in his fish box. Because Swellmonster and I just have drains any sea water entering the boxes immediatly is removed via the rear drains. With the pump system the water remains until the pump is turned on?
Maybe I can take a picture next time were down at the beach so you can see the likes or our setup.
BarryGreen posted 12-07-2003 04:03 PM ET (US)
I agree, Swellmonster. I got some flak when I bought my new '98 OR-20 after the '99's came out. My dealer found it in MD and trailered it to NH, and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. I just can't deal with that Euro-transom. Ruins the whole look, IMHO, and you give up valuable space as well. I'd rather have a boat (especially a Whaler) that looks like a boat, and that's just one of the things that makes the '98 and earlier models keepers.
And yes, those of us with the pump system have to run that pump to clear water out of the deckwells, but the only time you get water in there at all is after a pretty good rain or when you flood them on purpose to keep the catch alive.
boxers posted 12-08-2003 09:29 PM ET (US)
I thought ours (1998 20ft. Outrages) were considered to have the euro transom? Please enlighten me as to the differences. I thought the open rear transome which dominated the pre 1990 outrage designs were the classic transom. They would allow for twin engines. Then came the engine well and side cavities (seats and livewells on either side of the motor). The newest design has the motor behind the stern with a door to get to the motor and pull in fish. Now I'm not entirely sure when the outrage models evolved into the euro transom configuration?
BarryGreen posted 12-09-2003 07:46 AM ET (US)
From my perspective, the Euro-transom "look" is one which, when viewed from the side, presents a styling line that "breaks" at the gunwale a foot or two forward of the stern and then slopes down and aft at about a 45 degree angle to meet the physical transom just above the waterline. The '98 Outrage 20 (or at least mine) has gunwales that go all the way aft in a horizontal line to the stern, and a transom that is essentially vertical.
Do others agree, or is my use of the term "Euro-transom" wrong?
phatwhaler posted 12-09-2003 03:28 PM ET (US)
In jimh's Whaler history page there is a reference to the 18 Ventura being the first Whaler with the Euro transom. This boat wad made from 1998 thru 2002 according to jimh's Specs page. Here is link to a 18 Ventura:
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/7/8/60128378.htm
I think BarryGreen is right with his description.
Now, does the 1996-1998 19/20 Outrage have a euro transom? I don't really think so. My personal opinion is that the classic hulls are a little "saltier" with the open transom, but the our boats are safer and more comfortable with the seats molded in to the quarters. I wonder who designed our boat? Was it an old design of Dougherty, or was it designed by Van Lancker? It was probably one of them because the boat was in production as of 1996, the year that Brunswick bought the company. Probably Van Lancker.
Hope everyone is having a wonderful day,
phatwhaler out.
phatwhaler posted 12-09-2003 03:31 PM ET (US)
One last remark, the 19/20 outrage from 1996-1998 is mysteriously absent from jimh's specs page. This boat is still in production as the 19 Justice if specs are needed.
phatwhaler out.
boxers posted 12-09-2003 08:51 PM ET (US)
Thanks guys
phatwhaler I think you gave a good example of a pretty dramatic styling change that occured with the Ventura 18 as an example (and I believe the Outrage 18 in 1999?) So as Barry pointed out
"styling line that "breaks" at the gunwale a foot or two forward of the stern and then slopes down and aft at about a 45 degree angle to meet the physical transom just above the waterline"

Our 1998 OR-20s by comparison appear old school and represent a more classic look. Barry I can see now why you passed on the 1999 model in favor of 1998. The 2003 "Nantucket" design went back to the old school look-interesting.

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Author	Topic: 1998 OR-20 need advise
boxers	posted 10-23-2003 11:14 PM ET (US) I was cleaning up our boat this past weekend and noticed a problem. The starboard in-floor fish locker was back flowing water from the drain hole into the locker. The fish lockers have two drain plugs one in the bottom which drains directly through the hull(in my case on to the ground as the boat sits on the trailer). I keep the plugs in the through hull drains whenever the boat is in the water. The second drain plug is towards the stern and I assumed it drained into the bilge area. The second drain hole is smaller so I have always left the plug out. This is where I noticed the water re-entering the fish locker. Behind the fish locker is a storage area. I removed the inspection plate and sure enough it was full of water. Hopefully this area is supposed to drain to the bilge? Are we blocked? Any suggestions?
BarryGreen	posted 10-24-2003 07:42 AM ET (US) I have the same boat, with thru-hulls down through the hull that are normally plugged with the usual removable plugs. However, my aft drains from the in-deck wells are plumbed into a pump that drains out through a thru-hull above the waterline on the starboard transom. These aft drains in the deck-well are a flat plastic grate about 2 1/2" in diameter, and won't accept any sort of plug. The "deck-well" pump is controlled from a switch on the console just as the bilge pump is. I believe this was intended to be a way to circulate water through these deck wells to keep your catch healthy, and may have been an option. If you pull out the horizontal hatch in the engine well and look forward towards the aft end of the fuel tank, do you see hoses from the aft end of each well that feed into a fairly large pump? Do you have a thru-hull on the starboard transom (not to be confused with the bilge pump drain that is on the starboard side just forward of the transom)? I'm interested because I have leak somewhere aft that I have been unable to find so far. Sitting at the dock over a period of time it causes the areas under the inspection plates as well as the bilge to slowly fill, and if I have the bilge pump off (master battery switch off) will eventually cause the stern to flood. Not good for the Bennett trim tab pump..... Barry
Swellmonster	posted 10-24-2003 07:57 AM ET (US) Same boat for me too. The rear hole in the lockers open up to the bilge. If you open the bilge pump cover in the engine well, what do you see? Is your bilge full? You should be able to run a garden hose in your floor well with your lower hole plugged and the water should go down into the bilge. Bilge pump pump overboard?
wayne baker	posted 10-24-2003 08:07 PM ET (US) I have a 1997 20 outrage with in floor fish boxes. The rear drain on the boxes run to a pump just as Barry described. My boat has the fishing package option. This may be why some are equipted with pumps and others are not.
boxers	posted 10-25-2003 11:13 AM ET (US) Thanks for the help guys. I have a live well on the other side so I think our model has the fishing package. The boat is 300 miles away so on our next trip down to the coast I will run the pumps-there are two in the bilge area-this hope fully move the water out of that area. I will look for the waterlines as suggested too(and check their connections). I'm new to this boat and haven't quite figured it all out yet. It seems reasonable that the water would fill the fish lockers and could be pumped away BUT I didn't figure on the aft compartment filling with water! Since the starboard aft compartment is higher than the bilge area I'm not sure why the water should remain there? Possably the hose is loose and water which normally exits via the pump is getting into an area which was to remain dry. This is significant because the scuppers are back by the rear opening of the fish locker so any water entering via the scuppers could potentially travel into the fish locker and enter the small drain hole. No problem if the hoses to the pump are intact. But the problems Barry and I have experienced could be from a leak in the hose or its connections. My bilge is dry the compartment above it is not so this may explain the phenomenon.
Swellmonster	posted 10-26-2003 02:49 PM ET (US) This is getting fun. I have the fish package, the 500 gal rule livewell pump on the port side underneath the lil coverplate in the livewell. A bilge pump down below, in the rear center with a separate float switch next to it.
phatwhaler	posted 10-27-2003 06:18 PM ET (US) I have a the same boat with the fish package. My fish boxes are configured as follows. 1. I have the same scuppers on the sides of the hull that allow water into the fish boxes. 2. I also have the two drain plugs in the bottom of the fish boxes. 3. On the aft vertical surface of the boxes I have a plastic grate. 4. There are hoses that go from each grate to the pump that pumps the water over the side. Via the starboard thru-hull fitting. Which is one of those cheap Attwood white plastic deals. 5. There are also check valves that are in line between the pump and the grates. One of the valves could be malfunctioning allowing water to get back into the box even after you drain it. As far as I know the fish package includes the deluxe leaning post. The leaning post has the livewell container with the raw water pump/ washdown pump installed inside it. I guess that you guy dont't technically have the "fish-package" and or it is configured differently if you don't have the deluxe leaning post. I would just put some drain plugs in there or install a thru-hull in the transom with two hoses carrying the water out the fitting. A couple of ways that water could be getting into your bilges is 1. Water is seeping through the cover. 2. There is crack in the 5200 that seals that Bilge piece that has the inspection cover installed in it. It's the piece that is bolted between the seats. phatwhaler out.
boxers	posted 10-27-2003 09:26 PM ET (US) Phatwhaler, You do indeed have the Phat OR-20. No leaning post here-sounds like a really cool set up. In the options catalog BW shows 3 configurations if memory serves. 1) pedestal seat 2) pedestal mounted leaning post 3) phat deluxe leaning post If you bought new I am curious what that option cost. If we ever go fishing lets take your OR-20
wayne baker	posted 10-29-2003 01:13 PM ET (US) I thought the deluxe leaning post was an indicator for the fishing package. I have the leaning post with the large baitwell tank as well. I think the scuppers on the side of the hull are designed to drain the water off the deck of the boat not fill the fish boxes with water.The plug in the bottom of the box should be the only way to let water into the space. I know the scuppers on the side let in some water that finds its way over the lip, that the lid rest on.If anyone has been sucessfull if sealing up these fishbox lids I would like to know how. Adding sea water is not a good way to keep ice.
Swellmonster	posted 11-07-2003 07:52 AM ET (US) Did you find anything out yet?
wayne baker	posted 11-10-2003 12:14 PM ET (US) Nope, I must be the only one here with water intrusion problem in the fish box.
boxers	posted 11-10-2003 06:39 PM ET (US) I have not been back to check on the boat. We may go down this weekend-if not for sure on Thanksgiving. I will let you know what we find out thanks for checking.
boxers	posted 12-01-2003 08:36 PM ET (US) Just got back from the beach with a discovery as to why the water was not draining correctly from the starboard compartment behind the fish locker. When the Yamaha F225 was installed the fuel line was routed through the drain hole...imagine that... from a certified Boston Whaler dealership that has been in business since the 1980s. The drain hole which connects the bilge area to the adjoining compartment and was completely occluded by the presence of the fuel line. The line was rerouted and the problem solved. Our 1998 Outrage may not be a classic whaler but it is one nice boat as compared with the Nantucket 190 when you compare features and power. It's rated for 225 HP, has a usable center console(with an enclosed electronics box) and in- floor fish lockers. Just food for thought if your in the market to spend $30K plus for a whaler. The OR-20 is $15k-$25k in the used market and can be upgraded to a large four stroke(OF YOUR CHOOSING) for about the cost of a similarly optioned Nantucket 190 new. Thanks to all the Outrage 20 guys for your input.
phatwhaler	posted 12-02-2003 01:08 PM ET (US) Boxers, How does your boat perform with that big engine on the back. I know my boat hates it when I put any additional weight in the back. The max engine weight according to Whaler is 540 Lbs. Do you have trim tabs to help? A pic with her sitting in the water would be fantastic. Phatwhaler out.
Swellmonster	posted 12-06-2003 08:36 AM ET (US) Yepper! Our 20's are the last of the goodies!
boxers	posted 12-07-2003 01:47 AM ET (US) Swellmonster, It turns my OR-20 was configured like yours with the water exiting the fish lockers from the rear drain and making its way to the bilge via gravity. We got to put about 60 hours on the F225 Yamaha this summer and so far the engine is really quiet and more fuel efficient than the 200-2 stroke. I re-read Wayne's comments and think maybe water comming through the scuppers is pooling in his fish box. Because Swellmonster and I just have drains any sea water entering the boxes immediatly is removed via the rear drains. With the pump system the water remains until the pump is turned on? Maybe I can take a picture next time were down at the beach so you can see the likes or our setup.
BarryGreen	posted 12-07-2003 04:03 PM ET (US) I agree, Swellmonster. I got some flak when I bought my new '98 OR-20 after the '99's came out. My dealer found it in MD and trailered it to NH, and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. I just can't deal with that Euro-transom. Ruins the whole look, IMHO, and you give up valuable space as well. I'd rather have a boat (especially a Whaler) that looks like a boat, and that's just one of the things that makes the '98 and earlier models keepers. And yes, those of us with the pump system have to run that pump to clear water out of the deckwells, but the only time you get water in there at all is after a pretty good rain or when you flood them on purpose to keep the catch alive.
boxers	posted 12-08-2003 09:29 PM ET (US) I thought ours (1998 20ft. Outrages) were considered to have the euro transom? Please enlighten me as to the differences. I thought the open rear transome which dominated the pre 1990 outrage designs were the classic transom. They would allow for twin engines. Then came the engine well and side cavities (seats and livewells on either side of the motor). The newest design has the motor behind the stern with a door to get to the motor and pull in fish. Now I'm not entirely sure when the outrage models evolved into the euro transom configuration?
BarryGreen	posted 12-09-2003 07:46 AM ET (US) From my perspective, the Euro-transom "look" is one which, when viewed from the side, presents a styling line that "breaks" at the gunwale a foot or two forward of the stern and then slopes down and aft at about a 45 degree angle to meet the physical transom just above the waterline. The '98 Outrage 20 (or at least mine) has gunwales that go all the way aft in a horizontal line to the stern, and a transom that is essentially vertical. Do others agree, or is my use of the term "Euro-transom" wrong?
phatwhaler	posted 12-09-2003 03:28 PM ET (US) In jimh's Whaler history page there is a reference to the 18 Ventura being the first Whaler with the Euro transom. This boat wad made from 1998 thru 2002 according to jimh's Specs page. Here is link to a 18 Ventura: http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/7/8/60128378.htm I think BarryGreen is right with his description. Now, does the 1996-1998 19/20 Outrage have a euro transom? I don't really think so. My personal opinion is that the classic hulls are a little "saltier" with the open transom, but the our boats are safer and more comfortable with the seats molded in to the quarters. I wonder who designed our boat? Was it an old design of Dougherty, or was it designed by Van Lancker? It was probably one of them because the boat was in production as of 1996, the year that Brunswick bought the company. Probably Van Lancker. Hope everyone is having a wonderful day, phatwhaler out.
phatwhaler	posted 12-09-2003 03:31 PM ET (US) One last remark, the 19/20 outrage from 1996-1998 is mysteriously absent from jimh's specs page. This boat is still in production as the 19 Justice if specs are needed. phatwhaler out.
boxers	posted 12-09-2003 08:51 PM ET (US) Thanks guys phatwhaler I think you gave a good example of a pretty dramatic styling change that occured with the Ventura 18 as an example (and I believe the Outrage 18 in 1999?) So as Barry pointed out "styling line that "breaks" at the gunwale a foot or two forward of the stern and then slopes down and aft at about a 45 degree angle to meet the physical transom just above the waterline" Our 1998 OR-20s by comparison appear old school and represent a more classic look. Barry I can see now why you passed on the 1999 model in favor of 1998. The 2003 "Nantucket" design went back to the old school look-interesting.