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Author Topic:   1999 Mercury 60-HP 2-stroke

wetdogsoup posted 01-31-2004 10:35 PM ET (US)
Went on vacation to the FL Keys this month.... had a good time (not good enough to wake up with a tattoo). Instead of the normal t-shirt souvenir, wound up driving back to NC with a [1999 DAUNTLESS 15] in tow. Sure a Whaler doesn't say on the back "Sloppy Joe's - Ernest fell off his barstool here"; but then again, you don't get arm pit stains when you sweat in it while fishin.
A few problems:
Boat was used infrequently and then left with old gas in the tank under covered storage w/o fresh water cleaning (lack of cleaning is my guess - since lots of rust stains on hull and interior from all the s/s fittings and railings weeping).
1) The first engine maintenance performed was to change gas and add Techron (thanks lhg) to help clean out carbs. Then new gas lines, plugs, and fuel filter.
She still starts and runs decently at speed, but idles very rough (@ 800 rpm) and 1/4 of the time cuts out when shifing into gear.
2) Changed lower unit oil (dirty but no water intrusion or filings) and new impeller and seals. The water pump had a good amount of tan colored scale buildup which was removed before reassembly. Even with the new impeller, she only 'tinkles' at idle and produces merely a steady stream when underway. I expected more of a "drove the length Florida without taking a leak and now that I'm in Georgia I'd better stop before I bust a nut" issuance.
3) She does like to porpoise, but I've been following John's threads on the subject and will start by raising the motor from the lowest mounting holes up two.
Any suggestions on items 1 and 2 would be greatly appreciated.
don

jimh posted 02-01-2004 01:13 AM ET (US)
Disconnect the hose feeding the nozzle on the confidence stream outlet and see if there is more flow. It may be just a build up in the nozzle itself that is impeding more volume of water.
Clark Roberts posted 02-01-2004 07:12 AM ET (US)
Wetdog, suggest you remove carbs for a thorough cleaning and set idle/air needle valve at 1 1/2 turns on reassembly. Then with boat in water (tied to dock) adjust each of the three idle/air valves (turn ccw until engine starts to vibrate or cough then turn back cw until same... select a midpoint). Now set idle speed to about 700rpm and this should take care of that rough idle. Happy Whalin'... Clark
PS> a shop manual would be a great help as it describes above in greater detail and also will come in handy later on!
wetdogsoup posted 02-01-2004 10:04 AM ET (US)
Thanks gents,
Jim, I reckon your referring to the rubber hose that exits the engine block and heads to the 'pee' hole in the motor casing - I'll give that a shot.
Thanks Clark for the carb adjustment details. I've got a service manual on order. When it (and outside temps above 40 d) arrives, I look forward to tinkering with the carbs. If Dad could see me now! All those forced saturday afternoons of helping him tune the old MG finally paying off.
dfw
thesarras posted 02-28-2004 05:28 PM ET (US)
Wetdogsoup,
How did your water stream troubleshooting work out? I have a 1998 Merc 60HP as well exhibiting the same "trickle stream" of water....not as strong as it was two years ago.
The motor has 349 hours, mostly salt. I took it to a dealer today, most have said Merc recommends changing the water pump and thermostat after 300 hours. The only reference in my motor manual was to change the impeller at 300 hours. I did that, but truthfully impeller did not look bad and that dealer did not recommend changing water pump to me.
Anyone able to confirm that Merc recommends these changeouts after 300 hours?
Clark Roberts posted 02-28-2004 11:16 PM ET (US)
Thesarras, are you putting us on? 349 hrs in mostly saltwater and you don't think it's time to change impeller? Your dealer takes the impeller out (you say it didn't look bad so it must have been removed) and doesn't change it just for good measure!? I change water pump impellers every two years and others may recommend something different. Why don't you call Mercury Marine and ask what they recommend?
thesarras posted 02-29-2004 06:55 AM ET (US)
Clark Roberts, you misread my post....I DID change out the impeller at 300 hours, as Mercury manual recommends. What dealers are now recommending is change out of thermostat and waterpump, too. Two dealerships have told me this at boat show, including the rep at Merc engine display, but I wonder if it is a put on for service dollars.
My father has a 1984 Evinrude on his 84 Montauk and he never had to change out anything, including the impeller. Just does routine winterization maintenance. Never has had a problem.
I will check the outlet hose for simple blockage.
Clark Roberts posted 02-29-2004 07:17 AM ET (US)
Thesarras, sorry, I did misread! One advantage of changing water pump impeller is that all the bolts and splines (drive and shift shaft) get loosened and greased in the process ... good to grease prop shaft at same time. As to the thermostat, it should be inspected from time to time and especially if engine runs hot at idle and replaced if it's corroded or stuck (sticking). You can thermostat in a pot of water and bring to a boil and watch to verify opening. Your engine has a thermostat by-pass (spring loaded poppet valve) located adjacent to thermostat and in same housing which opens under pressure at any rpm above about 1200-1500 so thermostat is "out of the loop" at planing speeds. Happy Whalin'... Clark... Spruce Creek Navy
PS>the thermostat (and bypass valve) are located high on block on port side and very easy to remove and inspect. Make note of how the spring and poppet valve come apart and reassemble same way... very simple and easy to do. Once you take a look there will be no more mystery
divefan posted 02-29-2004 10:03 AM ET (US)
I had a 6HP Johnson on a 10' Zodiac many years ago. It had the exact same symptoms as you describe in #1. No one could ever find the problem. One day I got disgusted and just started going through it myself. Low and behold there was a small kink in the fuel line just where it entered the unit. It was impossible to see unless you were just doing a wholesale tear down of the complete system. It wasn't enough to stop it from running or starting on most days. It was just enough to cause a bad start on some occasions, a rough idle, and a cut out as you described now and then. That's where I would look if you have done all the normal maintenance first and it still hasn't helped.
I agree with jimh on the pee hole deal. I had the same problem. Had a small piece of sea shell caught in the hole on the unit end not in the hose. So everytime I would blow out the hose thinking it would clear the problem it persisted. Until I looked where jimh is saying.
Good luck.
jimh posted 02-29-2004 10:17 AM ET (US)
Nota Bene: thesarras--I deleted your duplicate article on this exact topic, and now append my comments from that thread below:
I am somewhat surprised that this small engine has a thermostat. I was not aware that the smaller outboards usually had one--I thought they ran on raw water cooling all the time. However I am not much of an outboard mechanic.
I would check that the diminution in flow is not due to a simple blockage in the nozzle at the outlet. This is quite common.
wetdogsoup posted 02-29-2004 11:38 AM ET (US)
thesarras,
Changing the impeller helped, but it wasn't until I unscrewed the plastic 90 deg hose fitting from the engine block and ran her on the hose that the seashells blew out from inside the block. Pees like a champ!
Thanks divefan, I'll take a close look at the fuel lines for signs of crimping. In the process of decarbing and devarnishing - mixed 1 can Berryman's b12 and 1/2 gal of gas. Ran most of it thru yesterday and then shut off motor to leave some in carbs and cylinders overnight. Hopefully will purr like kitten this afternoon after purging system.
As for the thermostat, I see it's location in the service manual. At least in the manual, it looks very easy to access and remove for checking.
dfw

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Author	Topic: 1999 Mercury 60-HP 2-stroke
wetdogsoup	posted 01-31-2004 10:35 PM ET (US) Went on vacation to the FL Keys this month.... had a good time (not good enough to wake up with a tattoo). Instead of the normal t-shirt souvenir, wound up driving back to NC with a [1999 DAUNTLESS 15] in tow. Sure a Whaler doesn't say on the back "Sloppy Joe's - Ernest fell off his barstool here"; but then again, you don't get arm pit stains when you sweat in it while fishin. A few problems: Boat was used infrequently and then left with old gas in the tank under covered storage w/o fresh water cleaning (lack of cleaning is my guess - since lots of rust stains on hull and interior from all the s/s fittings and railings weeping). 1) The first engine maintenance performed was to change gas and add Techron (thanks lhg) to help clean out carbs. Then new gas lines, plugs, and fuel filter. She still starts and runs decently at speed, but idles very rough (@ 800 rpm) and 1/4 of the time cuts out when shifing into gear. 2) Changed lower unit oil (dirty but no water intrusion or filings) and new impeller and seals. The water pump had a good amount of tan colored scale buildup which was removed before reassembly. Even with the new impeller, she only 'tinkles' at idle and produces merely a steady stream when underway. I expected more of a "drove the length Florida without taking a leak and now that I'm in Georgia I'd better stop before I bust a nut" issuance. 3) She does like to porpoise, but I've been following John's threads on the subject and will start by raising the motor from the lowest mounting holes up two. Any suggestions on items 1 and 2 would be greatly appreciated. don
jimh	posted 02-01-2004 01:13 AM ET (US) Disconnect the hose feeding the nozzle on the confidence stream outlet and see if there is more flow. It may be just a build up in the nozzle itself that is impeding more volume of water.
Clark Roberts	posted 02-01-2004 07:12 AM ET (US) Wetdog, suggest you remove carbs for a thorough cleaning and set idle/air needle valve at 1 1/2 turns on reassembly. Then with boat in water (tied to dock) adjust each of the three idle/air valves (turn ccw until engine starts to vibrate or cough then turn back cw until same... select a midpoint). Now set idle speed to about 700rpm and this should take care of that rough idle. Happy Whalin'... Clark PS> a shop manual would be a great help as it describes above in greater detail and also will come in handy later on!
wetdogsoup	posted 02-01-2004 10:04 AM ET (US) Thanks gents, Jim, I reckon your referring to the rubber hose that exits the engine block and heads to the 'pee' hole in the motor casing - I'll give that a shot. Thanks Clark for the carb adjustment details. I've got a service manual on order. When it (and outside temps above 40 d) arrives, I look forward to tinkering with the carbs. If Dad could see me now! All those forced saturday afternoons of helping him tune the old MG finally paying off. dfw
thesarras	posted 02-28-2004 05:28 PM ET (US) Wetdogsoup, How did your water stream troubleshooting work out? I have a 1998 Merc 60HP as well exhibiting the same "trickle stream" of water....not as strong as it was two years ago. The motor has 349 hours, mostly salt. I took it to a dealer today, most have said Merc recommends changing the water pump and thermostat after 300 hours. The only reference in my motor manual was to change the impeller at 300 hours. I did that, but truthfully impeller did not look bad and that dealer did not recommend changing water pump to me. Anyone able to confirm that Merc recommends these changeouts after 300 hours?
Clark Roberts	posted 02-28-2004 11:16 PM ET (US) Thesarras, are you putting us on? 349 hrs in mostly saltwater and you don't think it's time to change impeller? Your dealer takes the impeller out (you say it didn't look bad so it must have been removed) and doesn't change it just for good measure!? I change water pump impellers every two years and others may recommend something different. Why don't you call Mercury Marine and ask what they recommend?
thesarras	posted 02-29-2004 06:55 AM ET (US) Clark Roberts, you misread my post....I DID change out the impeller at 300 hours, as Mercury manual recommends. What dealers are now recommending is change out of thermostat and waterpump, too. Two dealerships have told me this at boat show, including the rep at Merc engine display, but I wonder if it is a put on for service dollars. My father has a 1984 Evinrude on his 84 Montauk and he never had to change out anything, including the impeller. Just does routine winterization maintenance. Never has had a problem. I will check the outlet hose for simple blockage.
Clark Roberts	posted 02-29-2004 07:17 AM ET (US) Thesarras, sorry, I did misread! One advantage of changing water pump impeller is that all the bolts and splines (drive and shift shaft) get loosened and greased in the process ... good to grease prop shaft at same time. As to the thermostat, it should be inspected from time to time and especially if engine runs hot at idle and replaced if it's corroded or stuck (sticking). You can thermostat in a pot of water and bring to a boil and watch to verify opening. Your engine has a thermostat by-pass (spring loaded poppet valve) located adjacent to thermostat and in same housing which opens under pressure at any rpm above about 1200-1500 so thermostat is "out of the loop" at planing speeds. Happy Whalin'... Clark... Spruce Creek Navy PS>the thermostat (and bypass valve) are located high on block on port side and very easy to remove and inspect. Make note of how the spring and poppet valve come apart and reassemble same way... very simple and easy to do. Once you take a look there will be no more mystery
divefan	posted 02-29-2004 10:03 AM ET (US) I had a 6HP Johnson on a 10' Zodiac many years ago. It had the exact same symptoms as you describe in #1. No one could ever find the problem. One day I got disgusted and just started going through it myself. Low and behold there was a small kink in the fuel line just where it entered the unit. It was impossible to see unless you were just doing a wholesale tear down of the complete system. It wasn't enough to stop it from running or starting on most days. It was just enough to cause a bad start on some occasions, a rough idle, and a cut out as you described now and then. That's where I would look if you have done all the normal maintenance first and it still hasn't helped. I agree with jimh on the pee hole deal. I had the same problem. Had a small piece of sea shell caught in the hole on the unit end not in the hose. So everytime I would blow out the hose thinking it would clear the problem it persisted. Until I looked where jimh is saying. Good luck.
jimh	posted 02-29-2004 10:17 AM ET (US) Nota Bene: thesarras--I deleted your duplicate article on this exact topic, and now append my comments from that thread below: I am somewhat surprised that this small engine has a thermostat. I was not aware that the smaller outboards usually had one--I thought they ran on raw water cooling all the time. However I am not much of an outboard mechanic. I would check that the diminution in flow is not due to a simple blockage in the nozzle at the outlet. This is quite common.
wetdogsoup	posted 02-29-2004 11:38 AM ET (US) thesarras, Changing the impeller helped, but it wasn't until I unscrewed the plastic 90 deg hose fitting from the engine block and ran her on the hose that the seashells blew out from inside the block. Pees like a champ! Thanks divefan, I'll take a close look at the fuel lines for signs of crimping. In the process of decarbing and devarnishing - mixed 1 can Berryman's b12 and 1/2 gal of gas. Ran most of it thru yesterday and then shut off motor to leave some in carbs and cylinders overnight. Hopefully will purr like kitten this afternoon after purging system. As for the thermostat, I see it's location in the service manual. At least in the manual, it looks very easy to access and remove for checking. dfw