posted 02-20-2004 09:02 PM ET (US)            

You can see pictures of my Dauntless at http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/marlinsail/my_photos , and a some reviews of the Dauntless (including one I wrote) at http://www.epinions.com/boat-Boats-All-Boston_Whaler_16__Dauntless .

Bricknj makes a good point, and the 180 Dauntless is a really nice boat with significantly more room. However, it's also above the 3000 pound tow limit of lots of minivans and mid-size cars, and it's something like $8000 more (new).

In the end, no matter which Whaler model you go with, you're going to get a well-built, very safe boat.

posted 02-22-2004 02:11 PM ET (US)            

http://www.engr.udayton.edu/staff/lriggins/Whaler/smallerWhalers.gif

The 150 can comfortbly seat four adults on its 66" wide helm seat and 33" wide console seat. It's shown with a 72qt cooler aft, a 54qt cooler forward, and a bait bucket in the stern for cruising and between the thwart seats for fishing, with two fishing off the bow and two in the stern. The console seat is removable for more standing room. However, with 270 lbs of motor, 30 lbs of safety gear, 200 lbs of fuel (four 6.6 gallon tanks under the helm seat for 120-140 mile range), 200 lbs of coolers and Porta-Potti, that leaves only 700 lbs for four people and their gear. I wouldn't want to take the 150 inshore loaded that heavily. It's fine in 2'-4' chop with only two aboard. There is currently no larger recreational Whaler with thwart seating.

Next up are the center consoles, which trade off seating for fishing all around the boat space.

The 160 Dauntless is the next up in size. The aft quarter seats may seem to make the boat more "family-oriented" but are highly overrated. The Dauntless series are fairly stern-heavy boats, sometimes requiring a motor hydrofoil or trim tabs to resolve problems getting on plane and porpoising. The scuppers in the 160 transom are below water with a four-stroke, sometimes allowing water on the deck, even with the boat unloaded. Seating two adults on these quarter seats compounds these problems, as well as puts the occupants right next to the motor, where they really should wear ear plugs when underway. Because of the way the bow narrows, Whaler provides only a 54qt cooler to provide walking room. It's definitely only wide enough to seat one. The only place left to mount a 72qt cooler, whether fishing or cruising, is up on the bow platform, which renders it unusable for lounging with the pad, or for use as a casting platform. The 160 has a 45 gallon in-floor fuel tank, which isn't as comparitively large as it might seem due to its deeper-V's increased fuel use. This also contributes to the stern-heaviness. The 160 is available with a bait well in the reversible pilot seat (RPS), but the only place to mount a small Porta-Potti requires step-over if walking around the boat. The 160 only has 300 lbs more weight capacity than the 150, but most of that is taken up by 120 lbs heavier motor, and 132 lbs (21 gallons) more fuel, leaving only about 50 lbs additional capacity. It will also be loaded very close to the maximum with four persons and gear, and is best limited to two persons inshore.

The 170 is the next largest. Although the 160 may be 3" beamier than the 170, it loses that gain to thicker gunwales at the base, on top of which the railings are mounted more inboard. The 170's railings are on top of thinner gunwales. Due to the 170's wider bow, the factory can use a 72qt cooler in front of the console, however even this is marginal for seating two people, depending on their size. This could be resolved with a larger (and wider) cooler, but would involve step-over up forward. With a 54qt cooler, a bait bucket, and Porta-Potti in the stern, there is still walk-around space all around the boat, and the bow platform is still usable for lounging or as a casting platform. The primary issue with the 170 is fuel capacity, since the factory provides only two 6.6 gallon tanks under the RPS. Many people install a 27 gallon Pate Plastics on-deck tank (24-25 gallons usable) under the RPS, and this should give a range of 100-120 miles. The 170 has 250 lbs more weight capacity than the 150, and about half of that is taken up by the 120 lbs heavier motor. Although the 170 is much roomier than the 160, I'd still limit it to three persons inshore.

Finally, we move up to the 180 Dauntless, which is smallest I'd recommend for four people inshore. It's shown here with a 72qt cooler carried forward of the factory 54qt cooler when underway with the aft seat in use, and with that cooler on the aft deck while fishing. The aft seat is a bit further forward than the quarter seats on the 160, somewhat lessening the effect of passenger weight on trim, and slightly reducing the noise of the motor. I'm making an assumption about the Port-Potti fitting sideways between the RPS and aft seat. The 180 comes with a bait well in a stern compartment, but is also available with a more convenient bait well in the RPS. It boasts 60 gallons of fuel capacity, which will be handy for the much heavier, deeper-V hull and larger motor. That's 225 lbs more fuel, and with a 150 Opti, 50 lbs more motor than on the 170, however, the 180 has a whopping 950 lbs more weight capacity, with 675 lbs additional weight capacity left after the extra fuel and motor weight. The transom is also 5" deeper than on the 170, which keeps the freeboard up despite the weight and the deeper-V in the stern.

The difference in the 180 and the 3 smaller Whalers is every bit as much as it appears in the line drawings and more. So I'll agree with bricknj and recommend the 180 from the start.

posted 02-22-2004 02:15 PM ET (US)            

Erik

posted 02-22-2004 04:44 PM ET (US)            

The Ventura 160 shares the hull of the Dauntless 160, and has all the advantages of the Dauntless 160 that you mentioned...but it has real seating for 6 people. Two comfortable captain's seats, the two rear jumpseats, and two bow seats...in addition, there is the cushion over the anchor locker for a couple of youngsters to sit.

For whatever reason, the center console design gets all the attention...but the dual console is more comfortable and has more storage, while being just as seaworthy and rugged.

posted 02-22-2004 07:29 PM ET (US)         

May I ask how you compare the floor plans to scale? When I copy and paste from the Whaler website into Microsoft Picture It, they are all the same size (ie the 22 Dauntless looks exactly the same size as the 190 Nantucket etc).

posted 02-22-2004 08:54 PM ET (US)            

Thanks for the compliments. Glad the images help.

posted 02-22-2004 10:46 PM ET (US)            

My Honda 90 weighs 373 lbs and the scuppers are above water with the boat unloaded. The motor is quiet enough for two people to sit in the rear quarter seats without earplugs. With two people sitting on the cooler seat, the weight is ballanced enough for the boat to plane with six large adults (two in front, two at leaning post and two in rear seats) and a top speed over 35 mph.

The 45 gallon fuel tank is plenty large. I can get over 7 MPG if the conditions are good and that equates to over 300 miles. I generally get 2.5 gallons per hour or 18 hours per tank.

posted 02-23-2004 01:25 PM ET (US)            

http://www.whaler.com/Rec/default.asp?content=boats&family=legend&number=160&type=Ventura

So I suggest you archive that web page and pictures, line drawing, etc on your local computer, if you haven't already, before it disappears. The 160 Ventura line drawing is nowhere to be found on webarchive.

Just for you, I did another comparison with your 160 Ventura in it, next to the 160 Dauntless:

http://www.engr.udayton.edu/staff/lriggins/Whaler/smallerWhalers2.gif

Didn't want you to feel left out! :-)

posted 02-23-2004 02:38 PM ET (US)            

1. There is a large amount of usable dry storage under the pilot seat (new style RPS) that is used to house fuel tanks on both classic and new Montauks. A livewell option for under the seat was available.

2. There is a reasonable amount of storage under the jump seats in the Dauntless for things like fenders, anchors, dock lines, etc.

3. The built in fuel tank is great. Compared to my Classic Montauk, my dad's Dauntless will go a lot longer before it's time to look for the gas dock. Both are powered by carb'ed 2 strokes of similar power.

4. Overall, the Dauntless has a lot more seating. The jumpseats are quite functional, and for children will be down right comfortable.

5. I think a 72 qt. Igloo will fit in front of the console with little or no walk around obstruction.

6. With a 90 h.p. 2-stroke, the deck is dry, no problems with scuppers leaking water back to the deck. Also, there are several threads on upgraded one-way scuppers that seem to have solved this type of problem for other forum members.

7. The big downside: canvas options for the Dauntless 16 are not as good as for the Classic Montauk, especially the availability of a forward shelter/dodger. Also, while the Mills sun top (bimini top) available for the Dauntless is nice and very well made, it does not stow flat in the bow area like the sun top/flying top for the Classic Montauk. The Mills mooring cover for the Dauntless is very nice and worth the money in my opinion.

8. The Dauntless is slower to plane than a Classic Montauk with similar power. It's certainly not what I'd call a problem, but the Montauk is exceptional at getting out of the hole and on plane quickly.

9. The ride of the Dauntless 16 is a bit softer than the Classic Montauk in a chop. Both boats have great stability at rest.

10. The built in boarding ladder on the Dauntless is very handy and out of the way when not in use.

posted 02-23-2004 03:50 PM ET (US)            

Probably, but most women and kids (and even some guys) won't eat food or drink out of cans that have been in a bloody fish cooler. LOL! Besides, that's where I keep the beer :-) So for us, two coolers is a gotta have.

I agree with your comments with respect to the older Montauk. The new 170 is much better all around.

posted 02-25-2004 09:17 AM ET (US)            

I do have to agree with the women perspective thing about seating. My wife saw the 16 Ventura and said, "Wow... look at all the seating!" She really liked it for that reason. However, when she saw the price, she changed her mind and we were back to the 150.