posted 04-24-2004 11:10 PM ET (US)            

How is the trailer plug wired into the vehicle harness, factory or DIY?

With all of the modern day electronics some vehicles require special adapters for trailer lights. It's been some years since I have done any trailer wiring but I seem to remember that Chrysler/Jeep was one of them.

Wouldn't be a bad idea to check with your Jeep dealer on the set up as well.

posted 04-25-2004 09:57 AM ET (US)            

I have towed mine with a ford F250 and a new jeep in the last week..so its time to tow it to work and find out what is wrong..it blew fuses in both riggs.

If ya really wana be dumb-founded...compare the ez loader used on the 2003 mt to the karavan used on the 2004....
inspect the area of the trailer axel....you will notice that there is additional frame rail over the axel in the ez loader...not the karavan....thus there becomes a radical positive arch when towing over rough terrain over time......definition on rough terrain...I live in mountains...curving roads...but asphault. anyway will advise what I found with electrical..I suspect "short to ground....in area of swing away tongue"

posted 04-25-2004 10:19 AM ET (US)            

For many hours after dunking the lights, it will blow the F250's fuse for the trailer connector tail light power. The trailer connector left and right turn signal/brake lines are not fused in the truck, so they continue to work, and I was able to make it home in the dark with the flashers going after running out of spare fuses.

I've ohmmed it out the following day, wiggling and tugging on the wires and can't find a short anywhere.

I suspect it's the cheap Wesbar lights, so I'm replacing the entire trailer wiring with an LED setup from Overton before this season.

posted 05-03-2004 10:34 AM ET (US)            

I am towing the montauk 170 with an Jeep Liberty Renegade

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/search_results.pl?make=Jeep&model=Liberty

it seems that all the lighting is idividually wired...each light has its own fuse...the circuit that the trailer running lights taps into is regulated with a 15 amp fuse thus the load is too much for it...and it blows..
I too, went to a 20 and it seems to be working..

posted 05-04-2004 10:01 AM ET (US)            

Something's wrong if the fuse is blowing, esp if it's blowing
when you pull the plug out. The trailer lights only pull
an amp or two each.

posted 05-04-2004 11:16 PM ET (US)            

The process is not complicated at all - you are simply trying to find where the momentary connection is made between the problem circuit and the ground. Because your lights work fine and the fuse blows when you remove the connector, I suspect the problem is in the connector itself.

Wiring the ground to the trailer should be via one contact in the connector. Some people will attempt to use the hitch as the ground connection - but this is not advised and does not give a good ground.

I would first remove the connector cover/housing and inspect all of the contacts and wiring connections - and particularily the connections on the problem circuit. Check and make sure that nothing (a few strands of wire, a screw that is close to the connector housing, et.al.) on the problem circuit can contact the ground. Should you find something that appears to provide that momentary contact between the problem circuit and the ground - fix it as possible.

Now, if you don't see where the problem is - the rest requires a multimeter - an electrical maintenance meter which can indicate a connection. Since your dad is an electrician, he should have one - and know how to use it. But connect one lead from the multimeter to the ground and the other lead to the problem circuit - toward the battery from the connector. Then wiggle, twist, turn, et.al. the connector until the meter indicates a connection - and then find out - and repair - what is causing that connection.

---- Jerry/Idaho

posted 05-05-2004 05:45 AM ET (US)            

Once my new 2004 170 gets to my dealer, I am seriously considering asking my dealer to turn the trailer over to me for assembly - not sure if they will do this though. My reasoning is that I plan on coating all the nuts and bolts with Lithium grease prior to assembly...I have used many greases in salt water but have found lithium to be the best at resisting corrosion. I will also most likely junk the lighting system that comes with the trailer in favor of an LED like Moe refers to. I will mount mine up on guide posts to totally avoid most of the hassles which come with salt water immersion.

posted 05-05-2004 09:15 AM ET (US)            

--right tail light
--right brake light
--right turn light
--left tail light
--left brake light
--left turn light

posted 05-05-2004 09:47 AM ET (US)            

And I suspect BigJohn's new trailer will arrive at the dealer
assembled. Aren't the current boat/motor/trailer packages
shipped from the factory on the trailer? And I'd just replace
bolts with lubricated stainless.

posted 05-05-2004 12:25 PM ET (US)            

Lots less corrosion than with plated steel nuts and bolts,
which had all turned very rust covered. I've been gradually
replacing the hardware with SS.

posted 05-06-2004 07:31 AM ET (US)            

http://www-5.jeep.com/buildandprice/Startup.jam

notice the amount of lights it has,,,each individual light has its own fuse...each marker,turn,back,driving,overhead,all are individually fused..can ya believe it....there are over 50 fuses in the interior fuse box...6 spares in addition. not counting the underhood fuse box for engine control systems

posted 05-07-2004 01:38 AM ET (US)            

And I'm surprised at 14 ga wiring in a modern car. They've
been put on a diet to meet emmisions and CAFE, and one place
to save weight is wiring.

Does your trailer have a lot of running lights? That one
tail light circuit is feeding all of the running lights and
both tail lights on the trailer. But it still doesn't seem
like it would get up to 15 amps. Tail light type bulbs are
1/2 to 1.5 amps in the catalog I'm looking at. The running
lights are less.

posted 05-07-2004 11:22 AM ET (US)            

You clearly know what you are doing. My last $.02 are this. Whatever is the cause of your blowing fuses it is putting you at risk. Line losses add resistance and therefore would normally be expected to reduce current. I wouldn't expect the short length of wire in a trailer to be significant. One of your symptoms is that the fuse blows normally upon disconnect and not connect. If you are really pulling over 15A in normal operation that is quite a lot. When you make the connection the fuse is cold and has a higher capability to absorb the surges that occur as you slide the connector together. Upon disconnect it would be warm and therefore have a diminished surge capability. This is unlikely, but possible. I would really take a good look at that connector. The last thought I have is that fuses are designed to portect against overloads and not shorts with resistance that could limit current and yet still get hot enough to do damage local to the defect.

posted 05-08-2004 12:46 AM ET (US)            

Now the other concern, heat dissipation is somewhat more abstract. First, lets establish that the heat that needs to be gotten rid of is the power dissipated in the resistance in the conductors. This is generally referred to as "i-squared-R" losses. In the example above this is (1A)*(1A)*1.2 Ohms = 1.2 Watts. It is somewhat intuitive that the heat will be radiating fairly uniformly along the entire length of the wire, unless the wire has a "bad spot" where the resistance is higher than average. Such as a kink or a place where some of the strands have been severed. The ability of the wire to "shed" the heat caused by the "i-squared-r" loss is impacted by several things. For example, is the wire being run in a bundle of other wires, or is it by itself. What kind of electrical insulation does the wire have surrounding the conductors? What is the ambient temperature? How hot can the wire be allowed to get before the insulation melts? If the wire is bare, how hot can it get before the conductors melt? Note two things: we are not really concerned about length, if everything is uniform. It is application dependant.

I now know why the wire vendors are pretty vague about current capacity, and why many people, including myself often struggle with what wire is best for what application. I still use some reference materials to take my best guess, but I am more sophisticated now. Here is one I dug up tonight that is relevant for primary wiring in cars and boats:

posted 05-11-2004 07:50 AM ET (US)            

Since my 170 will be for 100% salt water use, I sit here and wonder and plan after reading the various posts on what I need to do to ready my new Karavan when the boat comes in at the dealer. I guess its changing all plated nuts/bolts with ss (whichever ones aren't ss to begin with) and changing to an LED light setup. If I "read" the LED thing correctly, I assume I will less likely to have fuse blowing problems with LEDs assuming I have a good ground and tight connections. Although its most likely overkill, I will still most likely mount the LED tail lights up on guide posts to keep them dry.

posted 05-11-2004 10:16 PM ET (US)            

true electricity flows both directions thru a conductor even in dc...with electron flow in one direction thru the center of the conductor and in the opposite direction on the outter, or surface area, of the same conductor;

so what effect would drinking a cup off coffee have on this circuit?

posted 05-12-2004 01:38 AM ET (US)            

X---------Y

if X is the source{ac/dc, your choice}

and Y is the load {light,motor, whatever your choice}

-------- represents a solid core conductor connecting X and Y; if an electron moves from left to right, what is taking its place,,,,answer is another electron from the center of the conductor

example:

--->---->---->---->---->
|
<-------<-------<------ <-- solid piece of wire
^
---->------->------->--'

posted 05-12-2004 07:58 AM ET (US)            

That is a great explanation except for the fact that you are wrong. I think that this subject has been beaten to death, but in the interest of accuracy, I'll try one more time to explain.

Most people think that current flows uniformly throughout a conductor. This is not the case. The definition of a conductor is a material where electrons can move relatively unrestricted. Similar charges (ie the negatively charged electrons that make up what we call an electrical current) repel each other and therefore they "like" to be on the surface of a conductor. In high power and high frequency applications this is called "skin effect" and it has a major impact on efficiency. In your diagram you must complete the electrical path back to the source or nothing will happen. In the case of a boat, the "source" is a battery. Energy is stored chemically within the battery and when a conductor is placed accross the terminals this "stored potential" causes electrons to flow. Note that electrons come from and return to the battery where a chemical reaction takes place until the battery is discharged.