posted 08-30-2004 09:24 AM ET (US)            

I have done some research on this. Integrated radar/plotter/sounder systems seem to be the way of the future. In addition to the Furuno unit that Barney mentioned, Raytheon has the C-series displays, which can display radar, sonar and charts when coupled with the appropriate sensors. Garmin has a new unit that will be radar-capable (3006C/3010C) but this capability is still under development.

I have heard that Raytheon does not provide the capability for route planning on the PC. In my opinion this is a major deficiency. The Garmin unit can display satellite weather info via an XM radio link, which is cool, but Garmin, unlike Raytheon and Furuno, is new to the radar market.

Please keep us updated on how this project goes and post some pics, if possible. Even if I don't get a radar I would like to install a radar arch for hanging lights and to use as a wakeboard tower. I know other members had also expressed an interest on radar arches on the 170 Montauk.

posted 08-30-2004 01:22 PM ET (US)            

This is an incredibly difficult piece of water to navigate: Extreme currents, big ground swell, strong winds, thick fog, major navigation hazards and very heavy recreational and commercial (as in tankers, tugs and freighters) traffic. I gained a healthy respect for this beautiful but dangerous place.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/andygere/Golden%20Gate%20Whalers/IMG_0219.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/andygere/Golden%20Gate%20Whalers/IMG_0231.jpg

As for the original question, I have an older Furuno 1620 16-mile LCD unit, which works quite nicely. It's about 5 or 6 years old, and I recently had to have an electronics board replaced in the dome which was pretty expensive. The tech at Furuno as much as told me that there was a design problem with this particular unit, and many were repaired under warranty. Otherwise, it is a fine unit, and I am amazed at how well it is able to pick up small targets (e.g. fiberglass boats).

My boat has a small T-top, and the radar dome is mounted on top of that. The display hangs down from the bottom of the electronics box that is integral to the T-top. On a Montauk, I think a mast mounted in front of the console, or a very small arch above the console would be the best bet. If you mounted on an arch, the display could hang down below it. I find this location to be excellent, because you can easily glance at the instrument while still keeping an eye on the water ahead.

I never thought I'd really want to have a radar unit, but after owning one and learning to use it, I wouldn't want to be without it in our fog prone waters. There are a lot of unsafe boaters out there, and the radar at least gives you a fighting chance of seeing them before they run into you.

posted 08-31-2004 04:16 AM ET (US)            

I am also a 170 Montauk owner who is interested in a radar arch. I think it would be a very practical addition to my boat for several reasons. Antenna mounting, radar reflector, rod holders, anchoring sign, radar dome, additional electronics enclosure, lights, something to hold on to while standing...

I doubt if we would be able to find one off the shelf for the 170 though.

What I haven't seen mentioned here is that radar also reveals the buoys. I think together with , VHF, GPS and depth registration, a radar is a sensible piece of electronics to have on board if you are boating/fishing in big waters or large, busy rivers.

Erik

posted 08-31-2004 11:38 AM ET (US)            

Funny you mention detecting navigational aids with radar. I am currently taking an electrical engineering class about radar and read on the text that one of the applications was to detect aids to navigation; however, I don’t know how well this works in practice on recreational vessels. Now that I think of it, I remember seeing some big buoys and towers that I’m pretty sure have radar detectors on them. It would be interesting to hear from members that have radar in their boats if they can pick up any of these.

BTW: I remember you mentioning that you wanted an arch in your boat. Karl makes a good point about the weight and the windage. Another consideration would be how to mount so that it doesn’t mess up the fiberglass after a while. I wonder if some kind of pylon in the stern near the splashwell or behind the RPS would work better, even if it’s not as visually appealing as an arch with a nice angle. I’m thinking of something like what is on many police and military boats behind the driver. I’m thinking of making some drawings but haven’t had time.

Another option to reduce weight would be a composite arch like on the speedboats from the eighties. (Think “Miami Vice”.) I’ve seen this arrangement on homemade workboats. The only problem is that it may look somewhat out of place in a stout little center console like a 170 Montauk. There’s something about a labyrinth of tubing on a Whaler that gives it a nice utilitarian look.

posted 08-31-2004 01:29 PM ET (US)            

Many buoys over here have a radar reflector mounted on them. All buoys with light signals have radar reflectors. Some even have a radar beacon that transmits a signal. This signal contains information about the buoy. They are called RACON buoys. On charts they are marked with purple circles around them.

A radar arch would be a really nice feature IMO. If well built I don't think the weight would make much difference nor would the wind. I think a bimini top will have more influence from the wind than a radar arch. When I have some time I will also make some drawings and post them here to get some feedback.

Erik

posted 08-31-2004 05:20 PM ET (US)         

It is true that range is restricted on small boats, and that pitching and yawing will not produce the best results. But it is still better than running blind!

I had a custom arch made and installed my antennas and outriggers on it. The VHF radios get better range because of the increased height, it gives me an extra place to hold on when its rough, and I've mounted my outriggers so that are they are completely out of the way. It is fully collapsible, very sturdy, and think something like it would be very functional on a Montauk.

Louie

posted 08-31-2004 05:50 PM ET (US)            

I am a very big fan of radar, and I have been much more pleased with the JRC 1500 than I ever was with my Furuno 1622. I think the larger radar antenna gives it an edge on picking up the weaker echoes in long range.

Regardless of brand, be sure you know how to use your radar well. Some of the first rules of the road are to navigate at a safe speed based on conditions. Just because you have radar doesn't mean you can run fast in any condition. There are false echoes and tuning that you have to deal with based on the weather conditions to get an accurate picture of what is out there.

Also, if you are in an accident, you will have an extra repsonsibility for justifying why you didn't avoid the other boat since you have radar. The main rule of the road on the water is to avoid a collision regardless of the other "rules". If you are not using your radar you can be held negligent by maritime law.

posted 08-31-2004 06:18 PM ET (US)         

The radar should also be aligned to match the boats running angle (at the speed you intend to drive) in near low visibility. This is very critical in a small boat! Make sure the fabricators come on board with an inclinometer to verify the running angles before the tower is made. (This is tough to do on the trailer.) Shims will only adjust so far, and they look tacky.

I would also recommend you know where the microwave beam will be in relation to you and your guests. My boat is setup to operate with people under 6’ anywhere around and aft of the console. People taller than 6’ are asked to stay behind the leaning post when the radar is operational.

Louie

posted 08-31-2004 06:26 PM ET (US)         

I had lots of help from the folks at Whaler CPD and Zodiacs commercial division.

It took me over a year to have it designed and built, but feel it was worth it.

We had it built with anodized aluminum vs powder coat because I don’t like powder coating. I’ve been running a test for over a year now and I’m going to have the cleats, rails, and tower painted with Imron (2 part epoxy) this fall.

posted 09-01-2004 09:25 PM ET (US)            

I've also used my radar to navigate the Intracoastal waterway when my spotlight crapped out on me 30 miles from home. I used a mapping GPS as backup. I could pick up every channel marker at the 1/4 mile range, the can bouys at the 1/2 mile range, and any bouy with a radar reflector out to 1.5 miles. I never tried a further range since I was running blind on that trip.

My radome is mounted on a 1" diameter thick-walled stainless mast using railing fittings and starboard to connect the two. The mast is mounted to the floor of the console and runs up through it using an existing hole in the top of the console for additional support. This worked fine in calmer water (up to a 2 foot chop in an '89 Outrage 18 - sorry about bringing up a classic in this section!) but I added wire cables with turnbuckles connected to the corners of the console for added support (think spreader wires on a long outrigger pole). This holds the unit more stable in MUCH rougher conditions. I cut the mast to be about 6'6" from the floor and I can still raise my bimini if need be...

I don't have a photo of the mast with the wire cables but I can email a picture of the mast using more tubing as struts if you want. I didn't like the tubing struts as they rattled too much for my taste....

posted 09-02-2004 04:05 AM ET (US)            

Thanks,

Erik

posted 09-02-2004 08:25 AM ET (US)            

I would also like to receive the pictures. With your permission I could post them to my pictures page for everyone's benefit.