posted 06-19-2005 08:51 PM ET (US)            

With due respect to Jim, I have to disagree that you don't see many 20 year old Makos. Perhaps they're not very common on the Great Lakes, but old Makos are all over the place from Long Island Sound down to the Chesapeake. Along with Gradys and Whalers, they were THE boat to have in the '70s and '80s. I'd bet that in another 20 years, there will be more 40 year old Makos than 20 year old Makos.

posted 06-19-2005 11:55 PM ET (US)            

my second boat was a 1974 19'6" open fish Cari with a 150 evinrude....great looking hull with a great ride...

thing is one day we were out, two couples having drinks and fun, when we were about 1/4 mile from the boat ramp I feel boat getting sluggish, I turn around and it is taking water in!!! I was freaking...we JUST barley made it the dock. I thought we were deffinatly going down and I was going to loose my boat.

Running hard in the "bathtub-like" intercaostal gave it a crack in the side hull wall. Got it fixed and used it for another year but was never confortable enough with her. Lost the lovin' feeling.

Having had a small whaler before I new my next boat would be a whaler...and today it is... a 17 and I love it. The semi-v does not cut through the waves quite as well as a Mako (and I do like Mako's, always have) but the knowledge that I will never sink is unbeatable.

The whaler is a great all-around boat, and theres something special about owning one that you only know once you have had one.

posted 06-20-2005 12:00 AM ET (US)            

If you go to buy a whaler weigh it first. If it is water logged the scale will tell you (so long as you know the weight of the engine and anything else in the boat).

I do beleive that that problem is rare, but I am sure others on this site can expand on that issue...or just do a search.

Good luck with your choice.

posted 06-21-2005 10:42 PM ET (US)            

Aside of gelcoat cracks still solid as a rock!! Original fuel tank and transon.

posted 06-22-2005 07:28 AM ET (US)            

The NEW Makos, the ones that are now owned by BassPro, have a TERRIBLE reputation for fit and finish!!! They are good looking and have a nice design , but unfortunately it stops there. It is WELL documentated that the newer Makos have alot of cosmetic and structeral problems as a result of poor quality control. They look good, but unfortunately , thats about it.

If Whalers really had consistent problems with foam then would they have been in business this long???Moreover how can foam be "bad" in a Whaler but not be "bad" in a Mako???

posted 06-22-2005 08:33 AM ET (US)            

Previous posts by the originator: 0
Replies by the originator: 0
Replies by everybody else: 18 and counting

Draw your own conclusions, I guess...

posted 06-22-2005 10:23 AM ET (US)            

O.K. Poker 13...maybe I responded without enough knowledge...I used to fish on a Mako regularly in the 70's and did not know about today's floatation requirement.

Just did a search on that requirement (see below) and while I am not sure how Mako or others fair...my whaler, with plug pulled, never gets as "wet" as the diagrams for that requirement ALLOW.

Under those rules...you might not go under, but gee it sure looks like engine would be shot and lots of salt water in boat...kind of like losing the boat anyway...and add the cost of towing/recovery.

see http://members.aol.com/spinners/flot2.html
for article with diagrams.
=========================================

Level Flotation
Applies to:

Mono-hull outboard boats (not catamarans, trimarans, or pontoon boats): Mono-hull means that if you can draw a continuous line around the hull at the waterline when the boat is at rest it's a mono-hull. If it makes two or more footprints in the water it's a multi-hull.

Greater than 2 Horsepower:

Less than 20 feet (measured on the center line, including rub rails):

This category includes most outboard motor boats.

Requirements:
The boat has to float when swamped, (that is; full of water), in an upright attitude. See the diagrams in each test for specific requirements.

So how do I know how much flotation to put in the boat?
The amount of flotation is based on three factors.

1. The boat weight: that is the weight of the hull, the deck, the seats, etc. Everything not in the next two categories.

2. The weight of the engines, batteries, full portable fuel tank, and controls. See the table.

3. The weight of the persons. This comes from the persons weight on the capacity label.

Go to form to calculate flotation.

What do I use for flotation?
Most people use polyurethane foam. Some use polystyrene foam, that is, styrofoam. Others use air chambers. Air chambers that are integral with the hull are not allowed. They must be separate from the hull. Also, you have to pass the test with the two largest chambers punctured. Foam is a good solution, but some don't want foam in their classic wooden boats. In that case they can use balsa, or build air chambers into the boat. The two main reasons boats fail is not enough foam, and not enough foam to support the engines.

How do I know it works?.
Test it!

The best way to find out if your boat passes is to test it. You can do the test yourself, or have a laboratory do it, or the Coast Guard will do it for you. Call the Coast Guard at 1-800-368-5647 or 1-202-267-0984.

Here's how it's done.
You need to know the following:

The maximum weight capacity (the safe load) your boat will carry.

How much weight in people it will carry

The engine weight:.

Then measure the following reference areas on your boat:

cockpit area. 40% reference area.

Passenger area 70% reference areas.

Two foot reference areas fore and aft.

There are three tests to do.

TEST 1. The first is the level flotation test after an 18 hour soak.

Put your boat in the water. Put ½ the persons weight in the boat (assuming the maximum persons weight is less than 550 pounds. If over 550 pounds, add .125 times persons weight minus 550) in the 40% reference area. The Center of Gravity of all the weights needs to be in the 40% reference area. That doesn't mean all the weights have to be in the 40% area, just the Center of Gravity of all the weights. Pull the plug! Let the boat fill up with water. Leave it that way for 18 hours.

When you come back it should float like this: (Link to diagram)

One end out of the water.

The other end 6 inches or less under water (or out of the water too) measured at the 2 foot reference area.

No more than a 10 degree heel angle. (You can buy a device at a hardware store that measures this).

TEST 2. The second test is the stability test. You need to do this one twice, once on each side of the boat.

Place ½ the weight for persons on one side of the boat. The center of gravity of these weights has to be in the 70% reference area on that side of the boat. You have a lot of lee way here. You can move the weights from front to back, or back to front to get the boat to pass as long as the Center of Gravity is in the 70% area, and 30% of the total passenger weight is in the 70% area.

Take the other ½ of the passenger weight out of the boat.

Leave the engine, batteries, fuel and control weights where they are.

WARNING! Make sure you have some ropes or straps attached to the boat to keep it from rolling over. If you don't have enough flotation to keep it upright, that's what it will do. Then the weights will fall out and go to the bottom of the pool or lake.

When it settles down it should float like this. (See diagram)

One end out of the water.

The other end 12 inches or less under water (or out of the water too) measured at the 2 foot reference area.

No more than a 30 degree heel angle.

Experience has shown that if it goes 30 degrees it will probably roll all the way over.

REPEAT THIS TEST ON THE OTHER SIDE.

TEST 3. The final test is without the passenger weights.

Take all of the passenger weight out of the boat. Let the boat settle

It should float like this: (Link to diagram)

One end out of the water.

The other end 6 inches or less under water (or out of the water too) measured at the 2 foot reference area.

No more than a 10 degree heel angle.

posted 06-27-2005 12:35 AM ET (US)            

Both are great boats in there own arena. I wouldn't own any other 15, and I sure wouldn't own a 17 Whaler to replace my Mako 171!!

West Coast.

posted 06-27-2005 03:42 PM ET (US)            

Two nights in a row we had terrible thunderstorms with heavy downpours and wind and pillars of lightning out on the lake. Each morning, our boat was riding high and dry. Why? Gerald, the dock boy, had spent most of the morning pumping about a foot of water out of each. Had those been 16 foot Whalers, all Gerald would have had to do was step aboard first thing in the morning and pull the plug. A half hour later, after eating a nice warm breakfast, he could have gone around and put the plugs back in and sponged the remaining water out of the back of the boat.

Point is this: those 16' Lunds are required to have level flotation...but pulling the plug doesn't result in less water aboard, it results in more water aboard. That is an important differentiator when you're talking about "unsinkable" construction. There are few competitors out there that have enough reserve bouyancy to do what a Whaler does.

So, when's old Leonardo coming back?

posted 06-28-2005 07:41 PM ET (US)            

I almost bought a Mako 17 when I was boat shopping. It had the better center console, fishing setup, etc than my whaler did. After seeking advice on the MAKO FORUM, the administrator set me straight that the Mako was not unibond construction (foam sandwitch) like the whaler. Nice guy to be honest. I then opted for the whaler and I'm happy. The Mako had better storage, and fishing setup, but I think safety goes much farther.

No troll here, but there are numerous accounts of Mako boats sinking out at sea for various reasons. Not that the Mako will sink faster than a seaswirl, sea ray, or, anything else, I just happened to have read about several Makos that sank. Furthermore, many Mako owners have struggled with rebuilding transoms and fuel tanks (like the outrage 18, and yes whalers have transom problems too) more than I see happening on this website.

Perhaps I'm a fear monger, but I like NOT SINKING in a whaler. That is my biased reason for choosing used whaler over used mako.

Good luck with your search.

posted 09-23-2006 12:18 PM ET (US)            

Whalers are fine boats but the unsinkable thing is a myth. Perhaps it is so in a flat calm lake but on the ocean in the real world the unsinkable legend is a marketing gimick.

posted 09-23-2006 02:33 PM ET (US)            

Another detail I should mention about my incident. I managed to keep the motor running and with my 90hp at full throttle I was going backwards because the tide was strong and the boat was so heavy with water that the motor couldn't push the weight against the tide. It sounds unbelievable but it is true, we were actually loosing ground. I was barely able to keep the boat from rolling over in the 3 foot seas. I had two things that saved me that day.....The tide actually pulled us into safer water and a nearby boat saw and was able to assist.

It wasn't even very rough that day it was just wind against tide creating standing 3 foot waves in a 100 yard stretch of the inlet that you have to cross to get in from the ocean. My incident also shows how poor the squared off bow, bathtub design of those whalers is. A 17 foot V hulled boat would never have done what that whaler did.

posted 09-23-2006 03:11 PM ET (US)            

Please enjoy your Mako. Its a nice boat.

posted 09-23-2006 03:31 PM ET (US)            

Any small boat can become swamped and unmanageable in rough water. A Whaler should, however, not actually sink to the bottom of the sea but rather stay on the surface and give you something to which you can cling and which will be more visible to rescuers than your small self bobbing around alone in the water. This, to many of us, seems to be a desirable advantage.

posted 09-23-2006 10:52 PM ET (US)            

You said:

quote:

---

I should know, I sank a whaler.

---

posted 09-24-2006 10:10 AM ET (US)            

Poker13, a "swamped" BW can be driven back up out of the water and will then self bail --most other brands when "swamped" cannot, they renmain swamped until rescued. A submerged engine is not going to do much for you. If the engine does not remain above the water and the boat cannot maintain headway then it is not unsinkable. This is why you are wrong.

This guy is living in fantacy land. If nothing else my experience shows that a 17 whaler cannot recover on its own once it is swamped. Whaler does a great job of marketing their "unsinkability" by showing pictures in test tanks or flat calm conditions of its boats swamped with people in them. The truth is any manufacurer out there could show you the same pictures of their boats. But who boats in test tanks or flat calm conditions?????

A 17 Whaler is not, let me repeat this, IS NOT SELF BAILING!!!!!! The 17 whaler has its deck drain below the water line and relies on a bildge bump to clear water from the deck. A self bailing boat by its very definition has its deck above the water line and has scuppers above the water line to clear water from the deck. A 17 Mako is a self bailing boat. A 17 Mauntauk is NOT!!!!

Here is a statistic I would like to see on Whalers. How many whalers have filled with water because the whaler was in its slip when it rained and the bildge pump that it relies 100% on to clear water from the deck failed and the boat filled with water because it could not self bail. I have whaler friends who have had this happen to them multiple times.

posted 09-24-2006 12:08 PM ET (US)            

Regardless, I know a Montauk will handle a 3 footer if trimmed properly(bow up). If you just go plowing into whatever comes your way you will eventually have trouble no matter what boat you're in. Bashing a boat that has a long history of proven performance because you handled one poorly doesn't make it a bad boat. The fact is, your experience points to the boatman, rather than the boat, as the failure.

posted 09-24-2006 08:27 PM ET (US)            

As a matter of a fact, on my second time out, it was like "Victory at Sea," i.e., the tide going out, the wind blowing in, and boat lined up behind me. The problem was that I didn't have much of a choice at that point but to go out of the inlet before I was able to turn back around and come back in. It was quite an experience for a person new to boating but I used my head...i.e., I took my time, kept my eyes and ears open, got the bow up and made it back in one piece.

Funny thing is that the boat itself had absolutely no problem with the conditions, even though it's only a 15' rig. It was me that sweating it out, not the BW. I have been out in larger waves and have not had one come over the bow.................yet.

posted 09-25-2006 08:18 PM ET (US)            

Sorry to piss on your parade here guys but I thought you needed an opposing viewpoint on the comparison between the 17 Mako and the 17 BW from someone who has owned both and has had a bad experience with the BW.

posted 09-25-2006 09:20 PM ET (US)            

Roy

posted 09-25-2006 09:32 PM ET (US)            

You said:

"I stuffed the bow accidently into the wave ahead and the boat scooped enough water that we were instantly up to our shins in water"

You know you have an open bow with about 3 feet of freeboard heading into those incoming tide closely packed swells created by the narrow inlet and the tide.

The proper way to navigate that inlet would have been to slow to 5 or 6 knots, put the trim up allowing the bow to gain a height of approximatly 5 feet and let the waves hit the albeit small V on the front of the hull. As a skipper you never should have allowed the bow to fall below the swell height. You yourself claim you made a mistake, which I am sure you did trying to keep the bow down which caused the accident. The only cause of that accident was operator error sorry to say. You can complain all you want that wouldn't have been necessary with a deep V hull, but you were driving an open bow Whaler that called for a different driving style to navigate that inlet. If it were a seamanship examination test, you failed.

Just be glad you and your crew were able to get out of it because of the excellent flotation properties of the Boston Whaler.

posted 07-22-2007 02:52 PM ET (US)            

I am happy to say that I am still making mistakes and learning from them. The world is full of people who know so much they can't learn a thing. BTW, I have had lots of experienced employees I could not teach a thing, and got rid of them.

This guy also had a few things to learn, he said his Igloo floated away, if it had been strapped down it would have provided added floatation. He had water up to his shins
and thought he was going to sink? You need to know more about physics and keep your wits about you. I have reread the entire thread and feel he didn't learn much.

You can take on water or swamp an open bow boat but you have a better chance to overcome the problem in a Whaler
and learning how to operate the boat correctly is a definite plus. Boston Whalers as a whole are safe boats that will give you a better chance to learn from and be able to fish another day.

posted 07-30-2007 06:12 PM ET (US)            

quote:

---

Here is a statistic I would like to see on Whalers. How many whalers have filled with water because the whaler was in its slip when it rained and the bildge pump that it relies 100% on to clear water from the deck failed and the boat filled with water because it could not self bail. I have whaler friends who have had this happen to them multiple times.

---

Here's a photo of one: http://home.earthlink.net/~andygere/sitebuildercontent/ sitebuilderpictures/namequoitberth.jpg

I NEVER put the plugs in, and she floats just fine, no water on the deck in the harbor or at sea. If you pull the plug on a 17 foot Whaler, a few inches of water will come into the stern and no more, no matter how much it rains. The water won't creep as far as the pilot seat. Perhaps if fisher224's friends were using a {b]bilge[/b] pump, the water would have been pumped out.

By the way, I think I've solved the mystery of fisher224's confusion: He never had a Whaler. I did an exhaustive search of my Whaler catalog collection, and conclude that Boston Whaler never made a mauntauk or a Secconnet model.

posted 07-31-2007 11:18 AM ET (US)         

quote:

---

A 17 Whaler is not, let me repeat this, IS NOT SELF BAILING!!!!!! The 17 whaler has its deck drain below the water line and relies on a bildge bump to clear water from the deck. A self bailing boat by its very definition has its deck above the water line and has scuppers above the water line to clear water from the deck. A 17 Mako is a self bailing boat. A 17 Mauntauk is NOT!!!!

Here is a statistic I would like to see on Whalers. How many whalers have filled with water because the whaler was in its slip when it rained and the bildge pump that it relies 100% on to clear water from the deck failed and the boat filled with water because it could not self bail. I have whaler friends who have had this happen to them multiple times.

---

posted 08-04-2007 07:59 PM ET (US)            

-The Coast Guard uses Boston Whalers for their armed, TPSBs (transportable port security boats), that not only serve stateside, but also get tossed into the back of military air transporters to go off and patrol some of the baddest, most hostile waters in the world.

Here's a link that shows some cool, fairly recent photos of Whalers serving proudly in Iraq:
http://www.uscg.mil/reservist/mag2003/MayJun03/OpIraqFreedom.htm

-The U.S. Navy's SBUs (Special Boat Units) use only Boston Boston Whaler boats for their PBL class (patrol boat - light) of boats. It's these Boston-Whaler boats that are responsible for getting SEAL team members to, and from, the hot zones safely, even when taking huge amounts of hostile fire.

-The Marines conducted tests on Whaler hulls to see how much they could take. After 1000 rounds of .50 caliber ammo sprayed from bow to stern and everywhere in between, the hulls still sat nice and high in the water with no problems.

Folks may be able to debate about the ride and comfort of various brands of boats, but when talking about hull construction, and strength, I think the military answers that question for us ;-)

posted 12-05-2009 09:20 AM ET (US)            

A Boston Whaler boat:

--is good for kids to learn boating
--has a rough ride
--has floatation features no longer needed due to the invention of inflatable boats
--is over priced
--has poor lines
--has overall such poor performance that one would be better off abandoning it for the water for survival.

posted 12-19-2009 04:38 PM ET (US)            

The Montauk is not self bailing and does rely on a bilge pump. I understand the plug can be pulled and water will drain. But he is correct in his description that this may not be enough in an emergency situation in a NJ inlet; even if the situation may have occurred due to operator error.

I run the NJ inlets Fisher mentioned all the time with our 180 Dauntless, which has scuppers. I attempted to return through Corson's inlet after conditions suddenly deteriorated. Unfortunately it was wind against tide heading towards low tide. The inlet is not marked with bouys and my GPS broke that day while on the water. (you can see where this is going)

The channel is narrow and the waves were stacked making it invisible. I headed in slowly and missed the channel by 30- 40 yards. Easy to do without the gps.

My depthfinder showed the water getting too shallow, and I attempted to make a lateral move to find the channel.

I took a wave over the port stern. My tackle box was underwater initially due to the lead sinkers. I have a 150 Verado which I immediately hit to full throttle. There was so much water that even at full throttle the boat barely moved initially. If not for the tell-tale I would have thought the motor stalled.

The boat eventually shed the water and we found the channel a made it inside.

I had my young son with me and I will tell you it is a panic situation. For anyone who has never experienced it, the situation seems surreal while it is occcurring and in no way would I have been able to pull a plug or wait on a bilge pump. (the next set of waves would have surely clobbered me)

I retrospect I am not sure how I kept my cool.

posted 12-30-2009 07:13 PM ET (US)         

When I was a kid we used to run in Jones inlet on LI, that is, before they built the jetty, in similar conditions in a 15 ft. plywood runabout with a 30 Johnson and stuff the bow on purpose. The boat had a long 5' mahogany fore (front) deck and a 12" high wrap around plastic windshield. When we did this some green water would come over the windshield, but not enough to cause a problem. never felt any sense of danger, and the chicks loved it.

posted 12-30-2009 08:05 PM ET (US)            

I notice the flat portion of our smirk (the part parallel to the water) acts as a mechanical stop to stuffing the bow. As it hits the water it stops the the downward motion of the bow. This may contribute to a bang now and then in rough seas, but it also makes a small boat such as ours very seaworthy.

posted 12-31-2009 08:21 AM ET (US)            

quote:

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All boats are well made and meet Coast Guard Specs

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