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Author Topic:   New Montauk 170

fishin8tor posted 08-16-2005 11:33 PM ET (US)
Just wanted to say thank you to everyone on this website for all the information on BW. Because of this, I will pick up my first BW Montauk 170, with a 90 hp 4 stroke, fish package, swim step, front pad, 28 gallon gas tank, 15 gallon livewell and bimini top. I paid $23,500. Probably not the greatest deal, but it's a great boat and I think it's worth it. My two last purchases will be a new fish finder and a front mount trolling motor. Please post if you have any input on these items. Thanks
WT posted 08-17-2005 01:21 AM ET (US)
$23,500 seems like a great price to me.
I paid $21,774 for my 2004 Montauk which includes 90 hp 4 stroke, 24 gallon Pate tank, fishing package and swim platform. I think the bimini would have added another $900 and the live well another $450.
Did you get the 90 hp EFI?
Looks like Boston Whaler prices are pretty flat.
fishin8tor posted 08-17-2005 02:36 AM ET (US)
Yeah, I have been waiting for the EFI engine for 3 years. I won't buy another engine without it because I think it makes the engines last a lot longer. I pick up the boat tomorrow. Got any tips on first maintenance and set up?
bsmotril posted 08-17-2005 10:24 AM ET (US)
Is the livewell now a factory option on the Montauk? Or is it an add in unit?
BillS
jmontani posted 08-17-2005 02:17 PM ET (US)
Fishin8tor,
Congrats on the new boat! Whas that a 2006 or a 2005 model that you are getting?
After several delays with Pate, it looks like I should have my '05 Montauk by the end of next week. The tank has taken 3 weeks! The rest of the boat is done - bow cushion, fishing package, swim ladder, SS prop, dual bateries, and Furuno LS4100 Finder.
If you tank is through Pate, I hope that you will not need to wait as long as I did. If you do, take the boat and use it with the standard tanks through Labor Day and then have the dealer put the other tank in. Hold back the tank cost with the dealer. This will also give you a little "break-in" time to make sure that everything else is in order. If not, they can fix any items when they are putting in the tank. My motor needed a little fine tuning when the SS prop was put on. After talking with Merc they told me that this was not uncommon.
Good Luck!
Jack

jmontani posted 08-17-2005 04:49 PM ET (US)
Love the typo I had!
Sorry,
Should be Was, not Whas - as in whaaass-uuuuppp.
So much for all that fancy book learn'n I had.
whalerdude posted 08-17-2005 07:10 PM ET (US)
That is a very good deal.
I checked two dealers and they are not budging much on the price. It seems like list everywhere to me.
I am buying from the dealer that is closest to my house so I feel this will give me some comfort if something goes wrong.
I paid $25,000 not including tax for a 2006 with 90HP EFI 4 stroke.
Cushion set in front
Coolerseat/rod holders
Clarion stereo
Console cover
RPS cover
Swim ladder
Trailer
I get mine friday. I am looking forward to the pre-delivery water test. I can't wait to see my new boat.
Waiting for Pate C24 which I ordered last week.
fishin8tor posted 08-18-2005 02:13 AM ET (US)
I picked up my 170 today at Schock Boats and they do a great job of going over the entire boat. They threw in the coast guard kit, raw water spray, and anchor. Great guys down there.
To answer those questions:
The livewell is not a factory option, but it's pretty nice and they did the install for me.
It's a 2005 model with a tempo 28 gallon tank. Yeah, I know Pate is much better, but hey, he threw it in for free so I couldn't argue. The bimini top is from a local manufacturer in Newport Beach and the sales guy said doesn't have the problems the factory units have. He strongly recommended I get this one instead of the factory option.
Can't wait to hit the water.
whalerdude posted 08-26-2005 09:05 PM ET (US)
I put over 200 miles on my boat last weekend. i just installed my pate 24 gal tank and can't wait to take a real long run down to chicago and back tomorrow.
Fuel economy is great with the efi engine.

t
surfkast posted 09-14-2005 04:33 PM ET (US)
fishin8tor-
How do you like your boat so far? I just put a deposit on a 2006 170 Montauk with 90 4S EFI. Same price and dealer as you, though I didn't get the extras you got. Hmm, maybe i had to deal more.
Anyways, have you bought electronics yet? Any recommendations on GPS/FF combo or bait tank? I'm looking at Garmin or Lowrance combos. For bait, I liked the Kodiak 17, but it's too low for the transom. I'm thinking 14 or 22 now.
Any suggestions appreciated.
LHG posted 09-14-2005 05:10 PM ET (US)
Why are all of you ordering this boat with a 90 EFI 4-stroke instead of a 90 2-stroke DFI Optimax? Do you consider 2-stroke DFI technology a dead end?
bigjohn1 posted 09-14-2005 05:35 PM ET (US)
Larry, A note on the OPTIMAX from way out here. I seriously considered it and really wanted one but decided against it as my dealer was not really firm when I asked if they had all the proper computer equipment to service it. I also asked if the mechanics were factory-certified on the Opti and he gave me a luke-warm response. I since have come to believe I made a good choice as I have seen NONE on the island - and I didn't want to be the lone test case for their reliability in this fairly remote environment.
bigjohn1 posted 09-14-2005 05:37 PM ET (US)
fishin8tor: You're going to love the efi. I now have 220 hours on mine (2004 model 115efi) and not one mechanical or electrical problem yet.
swist posted 09-14-2005 06:51 PM ET (US)
"Why are all of you ordering this boat with a 90 EFI 4-stroke instead of a 90 2-stroke DFI Optimax? Do you consider 2-stroke DFI technology a dead end?"
I downsized from a 225 Yamaha on a 24' ProLine to a 17' Montauk w/90 4-stroke. I wasn't about to go to an engine which is apparently *louder* than my old Yamaha. All the data I saw in Powerboat Reports says go - apparently the injection pump is really loud. No thank you.
And while all DFI technologies are different, I do know a Yamaha tech who says that they are very fussy about maintenance and do require skilled techs and special equipment to service. I'll buy a DFI engine after they've been around 10 years and people understand them....
fishin8tor posted 09-15-2005 07:15 PM ET (US)
Surfkast,
I got the bait tank made by a local guy but I forgot the brand name. It's 15 gallons and works great!! They hooked up a real slow pump on the transom and also hooked up a raw water washdown with it. It flows over the transom well and never leaves any water on the deck. I am still looking at GPS/fishfinders and like the Eagle seachapm 1000 at Boatersworld for $499. I found the Standard Horizon VHF that only requires a small hole for the mic in the console and the body is stored inside the console. I like less cutting of the console. Schock boats has treated me great and I know you'll love the boat.
fishin8tor posted 09-15-2005 07:22 PM ET (US)
LHG,
Why are all of you ordering this boat with a 90 EFI 4-stroke instead of a 90 2-stroke DFI Optimax? Do you consider 2-stroke DFI technology a dead end?
Out in CA the DFI is not even offered, the dealer only carries the 4 strk. Also, I have heard the optimax 90 is not as smooth as the 4 stroke and I do alot of trolling so that is important to me. Lastly, I think 4 strokes will last longer than 2 stroke DFI. Just my opinion, but EFI 4 stroke engines are proven and work well. Just look at any IO. My 2 cents.
surfkast posted 09-15-2005 10:42 PM ET (US)
Yeah, I don't think you can buy new 2 strokes in CA anymore. The guy at the boat store said all the people with older Montauks are going to have a problem when they have to repower as the old hulls weren't made for the weight.
Thanks for all the info. I'm going to pick up the 170 Montauk this weekend! Will let you know how it goes
bigjohn1 posted 09-16-2005 12:14 AM ET (US)
Now I'm really lost. You mean to tell me that if I live in CA and order a new 170 MONTAUK from the factory, I cannot opt for the factory 90hp OPTIMAX DFI? I am skeptical.
As for the dealer not offering OPTIMAX, these boats are factory-rigged....what gives?
surfkast posted 09-16-2005 12:29 AM ET (US)
I'm sure others know more about the regs than me, but I did find this link:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/marine/facts.pdf

bigjohn1 posted 09-16-2005 08:40 AM ET (US)
I read that along with some other web resources on the topic. NEW traditional 2-strokes are no longer allowed to be sold there but it does not apply to DFI 2-strokes which are loads cleaner than "regular" 2-strokes. I could swear someone posted on this forum in the past 6 months or so stating they had just taken delivery (in California) of a new 170 with a 90 Optimax.
Does anyone have a different interpretation of this California 2-stroke thing?
LHG posted 09-16-2005 02:14 PM ET (US)
There is a lot of misinformation here.
EPA 2006 basically means, anywhere in the US, including CA, that an engine must be C.A.R.B. 2-star rated, which is the same as the EPA 2006 rating. All known 2-stroke DFI's and 4 strokes meet this regulations. In addition, Yamaha and Johnson can still sell a few old 2-strokes, maybe 2 or 3% of total sales, since the EPA regs are an average. Mercury just decided it wasn't worth the hassle to keep the EFI's in their line up any longer, so for 2006 Mercury only sells Optimax and 4-strokes.
Then, ONLY IN CALIFORNIA, as of Jan 1, 2008, all 2-stroke DFI's and 4-strokes must be 3 star rated. Unless changes are made to the engines, this will exclude all Yamaha HPDI's and the Optimax 150, 175, and 200, but all other 2-strokes will still qualify, if they are still being made.
There are rumors circulating here that the Verado and other 4-strokes are so good, and so incredibly reliable, that Mercury will be discontinuing recreational Optimax production, making them only for the performance (XS) and racing divisions. As mentioned, this could just be an internet rumor.
So yes, theoretically, Whaler can sell a 170 rigged with an Optimax 90 indefinitely in CA, since it is a 3-star engine.
jimh posted 09-16-2005 10:16 PM ET (US)
Within the Mercury brand offerings, the strong buyer preference seen here for the four-stroke motor (even though it is a Yamaha hybrid) seems to me to me more evidence that the OptiMax is not a viable option. News or rumor that Mercury will cease offering the OptiMax would make sense if you based your judgment on what has been proffered here by actual buyers.
bigjohn1 posted 09-17-2005 08:59 AM ET (US)
Thanks Larry for clearing that up. I was only going by what I thought I heard but didn't know the straight scoop for sure. I know its been discussed here before but I didn't pay very close attention to it then.
swist posted 09-17-2005 09:42 AM ET (US)
Up until a year or so ago, I would have said it was a crap-shoot whether DFI or 4-strokes would win out. It seemed clear to me that there had to be a "winner", at least within a given manufacturer's product line, as engineering, building, and supporting too many different technologies is probably not a good business model.
I think we might be seeing the beginning of a decision being made.... I'm very interested in outboard technology and follow lots of forums/news/sites .... I think the earlier post has a feel for it... the engines are too complicated and too fussy for a marine environment. We won't really know that for sure until enough time has passed to fairly judge against the other technologies, but it's starting to lean towards 4-strokes, IMHO.
bigjohn1 posted 09-18-2005 07:29 AM ET (US)
Good points made but if customer satisfaction alone is an indicator, it would seem that both of the DFI technologies (E-tec and Opti) are solidly "in". I read the Hull Truth quite a bit and the Opti owners over there swear by their engines and the very same thing can be said for E-tec owners.
Whaler_Jack posted 09-19-2005 10:32 PM ET (US)
Hey! This is great forum!! I bought my 2004 Montauk 170 last Oct., have about 60hrs on it. Paid roughly $25,500 out the door.. which include the 90 4 stroke, Pate 27 gal. tank, garmin 178c GPS, Factory Bimini, Fishing Package, I owned an 83' Montauk several years ago and Whaler really made some nice changes to this one. Not sure if the quality is the same but, it appears to be...time will tell. Thus far I love the boat. Great to fish the shallow bays along the Texas Coast...I've even ventured out 15-20 miles in the Gulf. (on those calm days), it make a great lake boat too!! Jack

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Author	Topic: New Montauk 170
fishin8tor	posted 08-16-2005 11:33 PM ET (US) Just wanted to say thank you to everyone on this website for all the information on BW. Because of this, I will pick up my first BW Montauk 170, with a 90 hp 4 stroke, fish package, swim step, front pad, 28 gallon gas tank, 15 gallon livewell and bimini top. I paid $23,500. Probably not the greatest deal, but it's a great boat and I think it's worth it. My two last purchases will be a new fish finder and a front mount trolling motor. Please post if you have any input on these items. Thanks
WT	posted 08-17-2005 01:21 AM ET (US) $23,500 seems like a great price to me. I paid $21,774 for my 2004 Montauk which includes 90 hp 4 stroke, 24 gallon Pate tank, fishing package and swim platform. I think the bimini would have added another $900 and the live well another $450. Did you get the 90 hp EFI? Looks like Boston Whaler prices are pretty flat.
fishin8tor	posted 08-17-2005 02:36 AM ET (US) Yeah, I have been waiting for the EFI engine for 3 years. I won't buy another engine without it because I think it makes the engines last a lot longer. I pick up the boat tomorrow. Got any tips on first maintenance and set up?
bsmotril	posted 08-17-2005 10:24 AM ET (US) Is the livewell now a factory option on the Montauk? Or is it an add in unit? BillS
jmontani	posted 08-17-2005 02:17 PM ET (US) Fishin8tor, Congrats on the new boat! Whas that a 2006 or a 2005 model that you are getting? After several delays with Pate, it looks like I should have my '05 Montauk by the end of next week. The tank has taken 3 weeks! The rest of the boat is done - bow cushion, fishing package, swim ladder, SS prop, dual bateries, and Furuno LS4100 Finder. If you tank is through Pate, I hope that you will not need to wait as long as I did. If you do, take the boat and use it with the standard tanks through Labor Day and then have the dealer put the other tank in. Hold back the tank cost with the dealer. This will also give you a little "break-in" time to make sure that everything else is in order. If not, they can fix any items when they are putting in the tank. My motor needed a little fine tuning when the SS prop was put on. After talking with Merc they told me that this was not uncommon. Good Luck! Jack
jmontani	posted 08-17-2005 04:49 PM ET (US) Love the typo I had! Sorry, Should be Was, not Whas - as in whaaass-uuuuppp. So much for all that fancy book learn'n I had.
whalerdude	posted 08-17-2005 07:10 PM ET (US) That is a very good deal. I checked two dealers and they are not budging much on the price. It seems like list everywhere to me. I am buying from the dealer that is closest to my house so I feel this will give me some comfort if something goes wrong. I paid $25,000 not including tax for a 2006 with 90HP EFI 4 stroke. Cushion set in front Coolerseat/rod holders Clarion stereo Console cover RPS cover Swim ladder Trailer I get mine friday. I am looking forward to the pre-delivery water test. I can't wait to see my new boat. Waiting for Pate C24 which I ordered last week.
fishin8tor	posted 08-18-2005 02:13 AM ET (US) I picked up my 170 today at Schock Boats and they do a great job of going over the entire boat. They threw in the coast guard kit, raw water spray, and anchor. Great guys down there. To answer those questions: The livewell is not a factory option, but it's pretty nice and they did the install for me. It's a 2005 model with a tempo 28 gallon tank. Yeah, I know Pate is much better, but hey, he threw it in for free so I couldn't argue. The bimini top is from a local manufacturer in Newport Beach and the sales guy said doesn't have the problems the factory units have. He strongly recommended I get this one instead of the factory option. Can't wait to hit the water.
whalerdude	posted 08-26-2005 09:05 PM ET (US) I put over 200 miles on my boat last weekend. i just installed my pate 24 gal tank and can't wait to take a real long run down to chicago and back tomorrow. Fuel economy is great with the efi engine. t
surfkast	posted 09-14-2005 04:33 PM ET (US) fishin8tor- How do you like your boat so far? I just put a deposit on a 2006 170 Montauk with 90 4S EFI. Same price and dealer as you, though I didn't get the extras you got. Hmm, maybe i had to deal more. Anyways, have you bought electronics yet? Any recommendations on GPS/FF combo or bait tank? I'm looking at Garmin or Lowrance combos. For bait, I liked the Kodiak 17, but it's too low for the transom. I'm thinking 14 or 22 now. Any suggestions appreciated.
LHG	posted 09-14-2005 05:10 PM ET (US) Why are all of you ordering this boat with a 90 EFI 4-stroke instead of a 90 2-stroke DFI Optimax? Do you consider 2-stroke DFI technology a dead end?
bigjohn1	posted 09-14-2005 05:35 PM ET (US) Larry, A note on the OPTIMAX from way out here. I seriously considered it and really wanted one but decided against it as my dealer was not really firm when I asked if they had all the proper computer equipment to service it. I also asked if the mechanics were factory-certified on the Opti and he gave me a luke-warm response. I since have come to believe I made a good choice as I have seen NONE on the island - and I didn't want to be the lone test case for their reliability in this fairly remote environment.
bigjohn1	posted 09-14-2005 05:37 PM ET (US) fishin8tor: You're going to love the efi. I now have 220 hours on mine (2004 model 115efi) and not one mechanical or electrical problem yet.
swist	posted 09-14-2005 06:51 PM ET (US) "Why are all of you ordering this boat with a 90 EFI 4-stroke instead of a 90 2-stroke DFI Optimax? Do you consider 2-stroke DFI technology a dead end?" I downsized from a 225 Yamaha on a 24' ProLine to a 17' Montauk w/90 4-stroke. I wasn't about to go to an engine which is apparently louder than my old Yamaha. All the data I saw in Powerboat Reports says go - apparently the injection pump is really loud. No thank you. And while all DFI technologies are different, I do know a Yamaha tech who says that they are very fussy about maintenance and do require skilled techs and special equipment to service. I'll buy a DFI engine after they've been around 10 years and people understand them....
fishin8tor	posted 09-15-2005 07:15 PM ET (US) Surfkast, I got the bait tank made by a local guy but I forgot the brand name. It's 15 gallons and works great!! They hooked up a real slow pump on the transom and also hooked up a raw water washdown with it. It flows over the transom well and never leaves any water on the deck. I am still looking at GPS/fishfinders and like the Eagle seachapm 1000 at Boatersworld for $499. I found the Standard Horizon VHF that only requires a small hole for the mic in the console and the body is stored inside the console. I like less cutting of the console. Schock boats has treated me great and I know you'll love the boat.
fishin8tor	posted 09-15-2005 07:22 PM ET (US) LHG, Why are all of you ordering this boat with a 90 EFI 4-stroke instead of a 90 2-stroke DFI Optimax? Do you consider 2-stroke DFI technology a dead end? Out in CA the DFI is not even offered, the dealer only carries the 4 strk. Also, I have heard the optimax 90 is not as smooth as the 4 stroke and I do alot of trolling so that is important to me. Lastly, I think 4 strokes will last longer than 2 stroke DFI. Just my opinion, but EFI 4 stroke engines are proven and work well. Just look at any IO. My 2 cents.
surfkast	posted 09-15-2005 10:42 PM ET (US) Yeah, I don't think you can buy new 2 strokes in CA anymore. The guy at the boat store said all the people with older Montauks are going to have a problem when they have to repower as the old hulls weren't made for the weight. Thanks for all the info. I'm going to pick up the 170 Montauk this weekend! Will let you know how it goes
bigjohn1	posted 09-16-2005 12:14 AM ET (US) Now I'm really lost. You mean to tell me that if I live in CA and order a new 170 MONTAUK from the factory, I cannot opt for the factory 90hp OPTIMAX DFI? I am skeptical. As for the dealer not offering OPTIMAX, these boats are factory-rigged....what gives?
surfkast	posted 09-16-2005 12:29 AM ET (US) I'm sure others know more about the regs than me, but I did find this link: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/marine/facts.pdf
bigjohn1	posted 09-16-2005 08:40 AM ET (US) I read that along with some other web resources on the topic. NEW traditional 2-strokes are no longer allowed to be sold there but it does not apply to DFI 2-strokes which are loads cleaner than "regular" 2-strokes. I could swear someone posted on this forum in the past 6 months or so stating they had just taken delivery (in California) of a new 170 with a 90 Optimax. Does anyone have a different interpretation of this California 2-stroke thing?
LHG	posted 09-16-2005 02:14 PM ET (US) There is a lot of misinformation here. EPA 2006 basically means, anywhere in the US, including CA, that an engine must be C.A.R.B. 2-star rated, which is the same as the EPA 2006 rating. All known 2-stroke DFI's and 4 strokes meet this regulations. In addition, Yamaha and Johnson can still sell a few old 2-strokes, maybe 2 or 3% of total sales, since the EPA regs are an average. Mercury just decided it wasn't worth the hassle to keep the EFI's in their line up any longer, so for 2006 Mercury only sells Optimax and 4-strokes. Then, ONLY IN CALIFORNIA, as of Jan 1, 2008, all 2-stroke DFI's and 4-strokes must be 3 star rated. Unless changes are made to the engines, this will exclude all Yamaha HPDI's and the Optimax 150, 175, and 200, but all other 2-strokes will still qualify, if they are still being made. There are rumors circulating here that the Verado and other 4-strokes are so good, and so incredibly reliable, that Mercury will be discontinuing recreational Optimax production, making them only for the performance (XS) and racing divisions. As mentioned, this could just be an internet rumor. So yes, theoretically, Whaler can sell a 170 rigged with an Optimax 90 indefinitely in CA, since it is a 3-star engine.
jimh	posted 09-16-2005 10:16 PM ET (US) Within the Mercury brand offerings, the strong buyer preference seen here for the four-stroke motor (even though it is a Yamaha hybrid) seems to me to me more evidence that the OptiMax is not a viable option. News or rumor that Mercury will cease offering the OptiMax would make sense if you based your judgment on what has been proffered here by actual buyers.
bigjohn1	posted 09-17-2005 08:59 AM ET (US) Thanks Larry for clearing that up. I was only going by what I thought I heard but didn't know the straight scoop for sure. I know its been discussed here before but I didn't pay very close attention to it then.
swist	posted 09-17-2005 09:42 AM ET (US) Up until a year or so ago, I would have said it was a crap-shoot whether DFI or 4-strokes would win out. It seemed clear to me that there had to be a "winner", at least within a given manufacturer's product line, as engineering, building, and supporting too many different technologies is probably not a good business model. I think we might be seeing the beginning of a decision being made.... I'm very interested in outboard technology and follow lots of forums/news/sites .... I think the earlier post has a feel for it... the engines are too complicated and too fussy for a marine environment. We won't really know that for sure until enough time has passed to fairly judge against the other technologies, but it's starting to lean towards 4-strokes, IMHO.
bigjohn1	posted 09-18-2005 07:29 AM ET (US) Good points made but if customer satisfaction alone is an indicator, it would seem that both of the DFI technologies (E-tec and Opti) are solidly "in". I read the Hull Truth quite a bit and the Opti owners over there swear by their engines and the very same thing can be said for E-tec owners.
Whaler_Jack	posted 09-19-2005 10:32 PM ET (US) Hey! This is great forum!! I bought my 2004 Montauk 170 last Oct., have about 60hrs on it. Paid roughly $25,500 out the door.. which include the 90 4 stroke, Pate 27 gal. tank, garmin 178c GPS, Factory Bimini, Fishing Package, I owned an 83' Montauk several years ago and Whaler really made some nice changes to this one. Not sure if the quality is the same but, it appears to be...time will tell. Thus far I love the boat. Great to fish the shallow bays along the Texas Coast...I've even ventured out 15-20 miles in the Gulf. (on those calm days), it make a great lake boat too!! Jack