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hilob posted 02-11-2007 02:30 AM ET (US)   Profile for hilob   Send Email to hilob  
Hello All,

Well today I purchased my first [Boston Whaler] 2007 190 Outrage with the 150 Verado. No turning back now! Dealer took me and my two friends out for a sea [trial]. The 45 minute demonstraton surpassed my exceptations by far. I grew up commercial fishing in Hawaii in the early 1980's, when two-strokes were the norm. Went away to college, started my career, and now am back home in Hawaii to settle down. Boy, since then technology has sure changed. The Verado's response is incredible. It's as smooth as having a automobile gas pedal at your finger-tips. We ran out past the channel head buoys in small 3-foot wind chop; the Outrage ate it up. No one got wet; very impressed. I backed down slowly into the small chops, got minor splashes, but nothing major. I went WOT for about 10-15 seconds twice, and I must say it was scary fast. I definately think this boat wouldn't have any trouble coming home with three [Ahi tuna] and crew. One thing that I need to address is the bow angle. Seems like the boat runs stern heavy at low RPM, then as expected planes off at about 3,700-RPM. I plan to install trim tabs in the future, but for now I'm going to try the Doel-fin product. Has anyone done the same? ETA to Kona will be Feb. 20th, look out onos...


Jordi posted 02-11-2007 07:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for Jordi  Send Email to Jordi     
Congratulations on your new boat. I have the same boat with the Opti 135 which is about 80 pound lighter than the Verado 150. It took me some time to get used to the boat coming from a Montauk 170. The boat is heavy and there is no such thing as slow starts. Learn to plane quickly and back off the throttle to reach desired RPM's. I get my best MPG at 3500 RPM's going roughly 26 MPH, this is a very comfortable cruising speed under almost all conditions. When the weather is really rough 2800-3000 RPM's will get you home safe. I avoid RPM's between 2100-2700 when possible for this range is costly to rum MPG wise versus the 3500-3700 RPM ranges. Once you have mastered the RPM's perhaps you can reconsider the Doel-fin product or trim tabs. I personally do not think the Doel-fin will help you much. I too considered trim tabs before I learned the ride characteristics of my boat and decided I did not need them. Many folks love the trim tabs, especially in rough seas. I avoid RPM's between 2100-2700 when possible for this range is costly to rum MPG wise versus the 3500-3700 RPM range.
Yiddil posted 02-11-2007 09:39 AM ET (US)     Profile for Yiddil  Send Email to Yiddil     
Congrates on your Boat!...they dont come any better...mines a 2004 "Das BOat") YOU will love her more each day you use here. I have a 115 carb on mine ..there was no Verado when I got her....

You say she is stern heavy at low RPMs....very interested in understanding this..motor is quite heavy I heard...but once she is up on plane....shes gone:))

I dont ahve trim tabs either...I expect I never will because my engine is much lighter than the verado....

Enjoy her:) shes the best thing you have done today:))

kingfish posted 02-11-2007 09:59 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
DoelFins are a very inexpensive and painless first step if you are wanting to get up on plane at a lower speed and to hold plane at a lower speed *as long as* your motor is raised for optimum performance (AV plate 1/2" to 1-1/2" above "keel" line.) Otherwise, the fins may detrimentally affect top end speed and possibly performance. Trim tabs would probably be the ultimate solution, and will also allow lateral trimming to offset eccentric loads, wind lean, etc. But they will cost a lot more.

I like Lenco tabs because they don't require space for a hydraulic pump, which space in an Outrage is at a premium.


Livingwater posted 02-11-2007 10:39 AM ET (US)     Profile for Livingwater  Send Email to Livingwater     
Welcome to the Whaler family and Congrat's on your new boat!

Check with your dealer to MAKE CERTAIN that installing the fin on your awesome Verado will not void the warranty.

I have a 190 Nantucket with the 150 Optimax and have found that the bow is extremely light. I was looking into installing the "SE Sport 300" but read somewhere that another owner's warranty was void because they installed a hydorfoil fin on their lower unit.

jimh posted 02-11-2007 11:10 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
You are really going to install a $30 piece of plastic on a $20,000 Mercury Verado "propulsion system" in order to make it work better?

I have to see pictures of this. Please email them to me immediately after bolting on the plastic wings to the Verado.

kingfish posted 02-11-2007 11:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
You are really going to install a $30 piece of plastic on a $20,000 Mercury Verado "propulsion system" in order to make it work better?

Wouldn't that be an amazing thing? One would expect to have to spend a whole lot more to make a $20,000.00 propulsion system work better. ;-)

To be more precise though, I wouldn't expect DoelFins to make the Verado work better, but I would expect they might make the combination of boat and motor to perform more to some owner's preferences, under some circumstances.


jimh posted 02-11-2007 11:35 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I'd get the boat in the water and run it for a while before taking the drill to a new motor's anti-ventilation plate to install the wings. There are plenty of reports about adding a foil appendage to the outboard's anti-ventilation plate to help generate some stern lift at low speeds for some boats. But I don't think I would have the nerve to drill those holes in a 2007 engine, at least not until I had explored some other remedies.
kingfish posted 02-11-2007 11:46 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Good advice; I agree whole-heartedly with it!
highanddry posted 02-11-2007 01:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for highanddry  Send Email to highanddry     
I have the same thinking, the boat is light in the front. I now have learned to load forward, the extra battery and extra anchor etc helps.

Do not bother with a Deol Fin. You engine is heavier than my Opti and I definitly think you need tabsand should just save your money for something that will increase the performance and utility of your boat and not some cheap piece of plastic that will degrade it by if nothing more the drilling of holes in a 20,000 dollar engine!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW, if you notice, the boat has a fairly stron positive sheer which is not noticeable so much until the boat is in the water, it is not sitting tail low, it just has a high bow. If you look at the boat on the trailer you can see it nad that the gunwale sheer is not parrallel to the keel and this results in the appearnece of sitting stern low in the water--it is normal because it actually is not stern low---it is sitting level.


Perry posted 02-11-2007 01:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for Perry  Send Email to Perry     
I added 10 feet of heavy duty chain to my anchor and put a sand bag in the anchor locker to add some weight to the bow. It rides better now but my motor is 25 lbs lighter than yours. I still would not even think of putting a foil on my motor.
Livingwater posted 02-11-2007 03:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for Livingwater  Send Email to Livingwater     
With my Bimini top deployed the bow rise is really noticeable. Looks like trim tabs would be the prefer way to minimize this. I generally like to cruise arould 20+ knots however my bow would be up instead of "Flat and level on plane".

Anyone have pictures they like to share with us showing the trim tabs installed on their 190 Outrage?

Jordi posted 02-11-2007 06:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jordi  Send Email to Jordi     
Wow...after reading this thread it seems bow rise is a real issue for some....I find the Outrage/Nantucket 190 to be very sensitive to trim position and almost never trim up the engine under any circumstance. Sometimes when the water is ultra flat you can trim up to gain some speed. I am wandering if the issue with bow rise has something to do with trim position? Experiment with trim position and RPM management and I doubt bow rise will be an issue. Bow rise is an issue for me if I start really slooooooowly...once I learned to plane quickly the issue went away.
hilob posted 02-12-2007 01:06 AM ET (US)     Profile for hilob  Send Email to hilob     
Thank you everyone for your comment and insights it great to get make a decision based on a majority. I agree with the chance of voiding the warranty of the motor, won't want to take that chance. My next task will be to research some threads on trim tabs. Thanks again everyone, I appreciate your feedback!
mfclapp posted 02-12-2007 09:17 AM ET (US)     Profile for mfclapp  Send Email to mfclapp     

Go ahead and install a set of Lenco trim tabs and forget the wing.

I went the same way your planning on my 1999 Outrage first but only saw minuscule improvement. Bit the bullet and put on a set of Bennets ( big mistake, pump problems/actuator problem and the last straw when hinge broke ) finally replaced them with a set of 9x12 Lenco's and the bright sunshine of happiness abounds.

Tight Lines

PS: you will not believe the difference!!!

Scott Grey posted 02-12-2007 03:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for Scott Grey  Send Email to Scott Grey     
I have a 190 outrage with the 150 Verado as well. I know the feeling you had when you tested it out. I've had mine just over a month. It was a lot of money but feel it was well spent on the whaler. I assume you got the 3 year extended warranty that is available untill march 31?
Good luck with you new "toy" and enjoy!
Yiddil posted 02-12-2007 04:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for Yiddil  Send Email to Yiddil     
Having had Das BOat since 2004, I have had no issue with bow rise , as I have what I think is a very light engine in the 115 carb. That being said, Last spring I put a s"sunlounge in the bow to extend the bow cusion all the way to the CC...the base of that unit is starboard and heavey!

Maybe rather than a sand bag, or dole fin, just load up the bow with a dodger, sun lounge, and a women or two and you will not have thi bow rise may have another kind of rise with all the toys though:)

I hesitate top buy a super heavey weighted engine for the Nantucket for this reason...even though I loved running the Verado. My only test witha verado was a 23 conquest with a much bigger verado, VAAARROOOM!:)

sheikofthesea posted 02-12-2007 04:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for sheikofthesea  Send Email to sheikofthesea     
Hilob same here in that I just got a Montauk 190. Very excited to get her in the water for spring stripers. I have a 115 4Stroke (inventive name)to push around a couple of buddies and lots of fishing equipment. My friend's wife is very pretty, busty and chunky so maybe I will put her up front in my Montaulk 190 and get the Debunker on plane.

BOB KEMMLER JR posted 02-12-2007 05:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for BOB KEMMLER JR    
A 150 Verado is $20K?
Livingwater posted 02-12-2007 10:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for Livingwater  Send Email to Livingwater     
Propulsion for 190 outrage

135 XL OptiMax® Mercury® engine STD
No Charge

115 EXLPT EFI Mercury FourStroke

150 XL OptiMax Mercury engine

135 XL DTS Mercury Verado™ FourStroke

150 XL DTS Mercury Verado FourStroke

It pays to purchase the right outboard as a boat package

jimh posted 02-14-2007 12:26 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Bob--I know the sticker on the Verado is not $20,000, but I am figuring the cost of all the oil changes into the price.
hilob posted 02-14-2007 01:14 AM ET (US)     Profile for hilob  Send Email to hilob     
Hello people-
Just ordered a pair of Lenco TT 9x12I w/ indicator switch. Yes, couldn't see myself drilling hole in a brand new motor. Although the following is Mercury's reply to my e-mail to them.
Re: Hydrofoil

Thank you for your e-mail regarding your 2006 Mercury 150 XL 4 stroke, serial # 1B429175. We appreciate the opportunity to respond to your concerns.

Your warranty will only be voided in the event of a gearcase faillure that cracks the case through one of the drilled holes.

If you have any other questions or concerns please feel free to contact us at 920-929-5040, Monday through Friday, 7:30 am - 4:30 pm, CST.

We hope this information is useful to you,


Mercury Outboard Customer Service

Ref: 2007-XXXXX

Their reply was very prompt. After reading many past threads on this subject, I agree that this would be prudent solution. Not just a bandaid fix. Again I want to thank everyone on this board for their comments and insights.


kingfish posted 02-14-2007 08:49 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     

I appreciate reading the information from Mercury, and I think it was prudent of you to actually check with them. I don't know how the warranty language reads, and I guess I'd probably want to see that too, if I was concerned about drilled holes in the AV plate, before I made the decision to drill them. It really is of little practical use to raise hue and cry about not doing something (drilling AV plate), as some folks are wont to do, simply because it *might* void the warranty. If you didn't boat because it *might* rain, you'd never get on the water. Better to get the best information you can, which you did.

I also find it interesting that almost all the vociferous arguments I've read against the install of DoelFins (or other Hydrofoils) come from people who have never tried them. I'm not talking about those who suggest you try the boat for a while before you change anything, so you can experience its actual performance characteristics for a while first, or those who calmly remind you to read your warranty (always a good idea). I'm talking about those who scream, "Omigod, don't do *that*!", or the sky will fall, or something.

I try pretty assiduously to stay within the boundaries of personal experience, or on occasion the personal experience of someone whom I know and whose judgment and veracity I trust, when I post answers to question such as yours here on CW. That sort of real time first person information is one of the things that I value here on Jimh's site, and I think a lot of others do too. (I *have* used both DoelFin brand of hydrofoils, and trim tabs, on numerous boats, and have found for my purposes that sometimes one works to my liking and sometimes the other. And sometimes neither. I have a good friend whose judgment and boating knowledge I respect, who actually uses both on the same boat!) I have occasionally thought about attempting a survey to record, among those who have negative reactions to the use of Hydrofoils like DoelFins, how many have tried them and how many have not...

Anyway, congratulations on your decision to install the Lencos. I think you will like what they do for your boat's performance, and I hope you will publish your findings here once you get on the water with them.


BOB KEMMLER JR posted 02-14-2007 12:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for BOB KEMMLER JR    
You might have something with adding the oil changes into the price of the motor, as the Verados will probably last forever and be the last outboard you'll ever buy. ;o)
BOB KEMMLER JR posted 02-14-2007 12:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for BOB KEMMLER JR    
hilob-You can add a fin to your cav plate without drilling, "turbo lift" is just one company that offers a fin this way. Hope it's not too late to go this route. I am very leery of drilling any holes in a motor still under warranty. They will look for any excuse to deny warranty.

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