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Author Topic:   Montauk 170 offshore Pole Holders

Hawaiian Whaler posted 02-22-2007 10:09 PM ET (US)
Hi. I bought my 1st Whaler a few months ago & have been following this website for a little longer than that. I have a 2003 Montauk 170 & sometimes use it to troll for off shore fish Like wahoo, Mahimahi, & tuna. the pole holders I am currently using are mounted to the rails but I need something stronger for the bigger fish. Has Anyone seen what kind of set up might be good, without modifiaction to the gunnals?

HawaiianWhaler posted 02-23-2007 09:22 AM ET (US)
Your rail mount rod holders should be plenty strong enough for any ono, mahimahi, otaru, shibi-ko, or natagi, and even the occasional marlin and ahi. I've caught them all from the rod holders mounted to the rails of my old Katama and also from the rod holders in the old teak reversible pilot seat. Had safety lines on all reels just in case, but never ever had a problem. Used to run 14/0 to the outriggers from the RPS and 12/0 "corners" from the rails. Good luck, go hanapaa.
mikeyairtime posted 02-23-2007 01:21 PM ET (US)
The rails are probably the strongest place because there's no wood behind the gunnels. The rails should hold the 35 ponds of strike drage on a 130 so you can even fish big blues on those rails. People have been doing it for years.
swist posted 02-23-2007 04:05 PM ET (US)
Agree with the replies, jsut make sure you get top quality rail mounted holders (all stainless steel), and mount them solidly. You may want to mount them closer to a stanchion rather than mid way if you are worried about the railing flexing.
Hawaiian Whaler posted 02-23-2007 04:23 PM ET (US)
Thank you all for the insight. I wasn't to sure if the rails could handle it but it sounds like it should. Does anyone have any ideas about mounting outrggers one this boat?
wywhaler posted 02-24-2007 08:20 PM ET (US)
Although I haven't seen nor heard of it lately, BW used to have a set-up that bolted to the top center intersection of the center console handrail. It was sort of a rectangular deal (12" X 5" X 2" approx.) with rounded corners and I believe it was stainless steel. It had holes for outriggers and provided a way to get the outriggers up and out of the way while providing a way to skip your baits. Also both riggers could be attended to at the same time while driving the boat.
I don't know if they are offered anymore but a picture might help you put one together on your own.
Ron
bigjohn1 posted 02-24-2007 11:08 PM ET (US)
Hawaiian Whaler, I fish for all the species you mention from a 2005 170 Montauk. I run a four-line spread utilizing two Tiagra 50W's from the flatline position on 80lb all roller rods. I also run two smaller Penn International 30lb setups which go to outriggers.
Here is what I recommend for you:
1. Purchase THREE sets of CE SMith ss rail-mount rod holders. Two of those sets should be the adjustable type and one set will need to be fixed mount. Use the two adjustable sets for holding rods and the fixed mount set for holding 12' outriggers.
2. Use these rod holders for a few outings and get a feel for exactly what angle you want the adjustable holders to be at. Once you know the perfect angle, take those two adjuatble sets off and have them tack-welded so the position they are in permanent. You want to do this because even though CE Smith makes a very high quality rod holder, running 80 or 130lb class gear from them can still bust them because of the strike drag you must set when Marlin fishing. The strike drag I use on those Tiagras is 26lbs and that puts a huge amount of stress on the adjustament screw for the CE Smith adjustable holders. Our Marlin here in Guam are smaller (in general) than Hawaii so I can get away with 50W's vice 80's or 130's.
3. For outriggers, I bought a set of Killwell's which is out of New Zealand. They are good but there are plenty of other good brands. I would stay with 12' though as the longer and heavier ones seem to me that they would place too much stress on the rear rails overall.
I run Tuna and Mahi jets and bubblers from the outriggers and run all my large Ono and Marlin rigs from the flatline positions. One more thing - use short lengths of heavy mono to attach Aftco flatline release clips to the aftmost portion of the rear rail.
If you really want to take the 170 Montauk to "next level" in offshore big game hunting, that would involve running a 2x12 Mahogany plank across the gunnels in the rear and glassing that wood in. This would allow you to easily run bent butts from Lee's 15 degree swivel base rod holders mounted right in the wood plank. Good luck!
Hawaiian Whaler posted 02-25-2007 01:03 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the tips guys. I am new to fishing from my own boat & have mostly been spearfishing my whole life. i'll look into your suggestions & see what may work for me. Bigjohn1, good tip on welding the pole holders. even the weight of the rods & reels would work mine lose. I also am running flat line's from the corners. do you feel that the flat line set up has any effect on the lures action since we are pulling more line in the water?
bigjohn1 posted 02-25-2007 03:22 AM ET (US)
No doubt some lures will be effected by running at the flatline position in the wake of a 170 Montauk. Basically, if you run any bait appropriate for Wahoo or Marlin back there, you'll be fine and they will run true. Its when you try and run many Tuna lures where you will find the biggest challenges. In my case, once I added outriggers my catch ratio went WAY up and I'm sure your experience will be the same. I am familiar with your waters, the species, and the various techniques used in Hawaii. Adding outriggers is expensive but well worth it in the end for a fisherman.
Hawaiian Whaler posted 02-25-2007 03:56 AM ET (US)
bigjohn1,
Thanks for the help. i'll try to let you guys know when I'm done w/my set up & how it's working out. thanks again everyone for the help.
wywhaler posted 03-01-2007 02:31 AM ET (US)
Just got word back from BW customer service on the center console outrigger mount. It was cast aluminum, made by Lee and it was for the Montauk and the Revenge. They sent me a copy of an old option catalog showing the mount with poles in the vertical position. They can't fabricate it at the Whaler factory. I don't understand why it's still not available. It's in the perfect spot for offshore fishing. I'm thinking it wouldn't be to hard to make your own.
Ron
Hawaiian Whaler posted 03-01-2007 03:38 PM ET (US)
wywhaler,
thanks for the research. I like to get alot of ideas for options before I make a desicion, so I appreciate the time. thanks
mmakar posted 03-01-2007 03:45 PM ET (US)
Hawaiian Whaler you might want to look at an alternative to traditional outriggers. I've searched all over for a clean way to run outriggers on my 17 Montauk offshore in Flrodia with little luck. I did however find a company www.flatlineboom.com that makes a mini-outrigger that fits into a standard rod holders. It extends out either 4' or 6' from the boat and has a clip that provides a drop back when you get a hit. Not a traditional outrigger by any means but it is built well and doesn't work bad. Take a look at their website.
bigjohn1 posted 03-01-2007 04:53 PM ET (US)
Not a bad ideas guys but you have to remember the basic functioning of outriggers. Sure, they widen your spread laterally but just as important, they RAISE your outside lines ABOVE the flatlines which (along with lateral spread) helps avoid tangles while turning. Aside from this, you can keep your swivels out of the water when trolling for shy Tuna.
Flatline booms are great for certain purposes but they will not replace outriggers. I personally use them during the windy Wahoo season and leave the outriggers at home then. I will use them to widen a reduced three-line spread
targeted for Wahoo - meaning, we're running very heavy lures close the transom spaced at 30, 60, and 90ft lengths.

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Author	Topic: Montauk 170 offshore Pole Holders
Hawaiian Whaler	posted 02-22-2007 10:09 PM ET (US) Hi. I bought my 1st Whaler a few months ago & have been following this website for a little longer than that. I have a 2003 Montauk 170 & sometimes use it to troll for off shore fish Like wahoo, Mahimahi, & tuna. the pole holders I am currently using are mounted to the rails but I need something stronger for the bigger fish. Has Anyone seen what kind of set up might be good, without modifiaction to the gunnals?
HawaiianWhaler	posted 02-23-2007 09:22 AM ET (US) Your rail mount rod holders should be plenty strong enough for any ono, mahimahi, otaru, shibi-ko, or natagi, and even the occasional marlin and ahi. I've caught them all from the rod holders mounted to the rails of my old Katama and also from the rod holders in the old teak reversible pilot seat. Had safety lines on all reels just in case, but never ever had a problem. Used to run 14/0 to the outriggers from the RPS and 12/0 "corners" from the rails. Good luck, go hanapaa.
mikeyairtime	posted 02-23-2007 01:21 PM ET (US) The rails are probably the strongest place because there's no wood behind the gunnels. The rails should hold the 35 ponds of strike drage on a 130 so you can even fish big blues on those rails. People have been doing it for years.
swist	posted 02-23-2007 04:05 PM ET (US) Agree with the replies, jsut make sure you get top quality rail mounted holders (all stainless steel), and mount them solidly. You may want to mount them closer to a stanchion rather than mid way if you are worried about the railing flexing.
Hawaiian Whaler	posted 02-23-2007 04:23 PM ET (US) Thank you all for the insight. I wasn't to sure if the rails could handle it but it sounds like it should. Does anyone have any ideas about mounting outrggers one this boat?
wywhaler	posted 02-24-2007 08:20 PM ET (US) Although I haven't seen nor heard of it lately, BW used to have a set-up that bolted to the top center intersection of the center console handrail. It was sort of a rectangular deal (12" X 5" X 2" approx.) with rounded corners and I believe it was stainless steel. It had holes for outriggers and provided a way to get the outriggers up and out of the way while providing a way to skip your baits. Also both riggers could be attended to at the same time while driving the boat. I don't know if they are offered anymore but a picture might help you put one together on your own. Ron
bigjohn1	posted 02-24-2007 11:08 PM ET (US) Hawaiian Whaler, I fish for all the species you mention from a 2005 170 Montauk. I run a four-line spread utilizing two Tiagra 50W's from the flatline position on 80lb all roller rods. I also run two smaller Penn International 30lb setups which go to outriggers. Here is what I recommend for you: 1. Purchase THREE sets of CE SMith ss rail-mount rod holders. Two of those sets should be the adjustable type and one set will need to be fixed mount. Use the two adjustable sets for holding rods and the fixed mount set for holding 12' outriggers. 2. Use these rod holders for a few outings and get a feel for exactly what angle you want the adjustable holders to be at. Once you know the perfect angle, take those two adjuatble sets off and have them tack-welded so the position they are in permanent. You want to do this because even though CE Smith makes a very high quality rod holder, running 80 or 130lb class gear from them can still bust them because of the strike drag you must set when Marlin fishing. The strike drag I use on those Tiagras is 26lbs and that puts a huge amount of stress on the adjustament screw for the CE Smith adjustable holders. Our Marlin here in Guam are smaller (in general) than Hawaii so I can get away with 50W's vice 80's or 130's. 3. For outriggers, I bought a set of Killwell's which is out of New Zealand. They are good but there are plenty of other good brands. I would stay with 12' though as the longer and heavier ones seem to me that they would place too much stress on the rear rails overall. I run Tuna and Mahi jets and bubblers from the outriggers and run all my large Ono and Marlin rigs from the flatline positions. One more thing - use short lengths of heavy mono to attach Aftco flatline release clips to the aftmost portion of the rear rail. If you really want to take the 170 Montauk to "next level" in offshore big game hunting, that would involve running a 2x12 Mahogany plank across the gunnels in the rear and glassing that wood in. This would allow you to easily run bent butts from Lee's 15 degree swivel base rod holders mounted right in the wood plank. Good luck!
Hawaiian Whaler	posted 02-25-2007 01:03 AM ET (US) Thanks for the tips guys. I am new to fishing from my own boat & have mostly been spearfishing my whole life. i'll look into your suggestions & see what may work for me. Bigjohn1, good tip on welding the pole holders. even the weight of the rods & reels would work mine lose. I also am running flat line's from the corners. do you feel that the flat line set up has any effect on the lures action since we are pulling more line in the water?
bigjohn1	posted 02-25-2007 03:22 AM ET (US) No doubt some lures will be effected by running at the flatline position in the wake of a 170 Montauk. Basically, if you run any bait appropriate for Wahoo or Marlin back there, you'll be fine and they will run true. Its when you try and run many Tuna lures where you will find the biggest challenges. In my case, once I added outriggers my catch ratio went WAY up and I'm sure your experience will be the same. I am familiar with your waters, the species, and the various techniques used in Hawaii. Adding outriggers is expensive but well worth it in the end for a fisherman.
Hawaiian Whaler	posted 02-25-2007 03:56 AM ET (US) bigjohn1, Thanks for the help. i'll try to let you guys know when I'm done w/my set up & how it's working out. thanks again everyone for the help.
wywhaler	posted 03-01-2007 02:31 AM ET (US) Just got word back from BW customer service on the center console outrigger mount. It was cast aluminum, made by Lee and it was for the Montauk and the Revenge. They sent me a copy of an old option catalog showing the mount with poles in the vertical position. They can't fabricate it at the Whaler factory. I don't understand why it's still not available. It's in the perfect spot for offshore fishing. I'm thinking it wouldn't be to hard to make your own. Ron
Hawaiian Whaler	posted 03-01-2007 03:38 PM ET (US) wywhaler, thanks for the research. I like to get alot of ideas for options before I make a desicion, so I appreciate the time. thanks
mmakar	posted 03-01-2007 03:45 PM ET (US) Hawaiian Whaler you might want to look at an alternative to traditional outriggers. I've searched all over for a clean way to run outriggers on my 17 Montauk offshore in Flrodia with little luck. I did however find a company www.flatlineboom.com that makes a mini-outrigger that fits into a standard rod holders. It extends out either 4' or 6' from the boat and has a clip that provides a drop back when you get a hit. Not a traditional outrigger by any means but it is built well and doesn't work bad. Take a look at their website.
bigjohn1	posted 03-01-2007 04:53 PM ET (US) Not a bad ideas guys but you have to remember the basic functioning of outriggers. Sure, they widen your spread laterally but just as important, they RAISE your outside lines ABOVE the flatlines which (along with lateral spread) helps avoid tangles while turning. Aside from this, you can keep your swivels out of the water when trolling for shy Tuna. Flatline booms are great for certain purposes but they will not replace outriggers. I personally use them during the windy Wahoo season and leave the outriggers at home then. I will use them to widen a reduced three-line spread targeted for Wahoo - meaning, we're running very heavy lures close the transom spaced at 30, 60, and 90ft lengths.