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  170 MONTAUK: Auxiliary Motor Directly On Transom

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Author Topic:   170 MONTAUK: Auxiliary Motor Directly On Transom
fisherman posted 05-14-2007 11:01 PM ET (US)   Profile for fisherman   Send Email to fisherman  
See the REFERENCE article at

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/170Auxiliary.html

Please use this thread for follow up comments or questions.

Divedog posted 05-21-2007 01:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for Divedog  Send Email to Divedog     
Why did you decide on a direct connection instead of using a bracket?
fisherman posted 05-21-2007 09:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for fisherman  Send Email to fisherman     
Hi Divedog:

To get away from those back-breaking knuckle-busting brackets. Easier access for starting etc., plus the fact it looks a lot better and has no bolt holes into the back portion of the star-board stern seat.

Ray

bobeson posted 05-29-2007 11:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for bobeson  Send Email to bobeson     
Thanks for the great write-up! I tried putting a kicker on my 170 a few years ago, and the results were terrible. I let my dealer pick out and install the mounting bracket, and it ended up being so bad that I was relieved when the kicker was stolen off the boat a couple of weeks later. The only reasonable-looking installation I have seen on a 170 so far was a pretty over-the-top huge bracket, and I wouldn't be too interested in going down that road either. I think if I do put another kicker on my boat I will probably do something along the lines of what you did here, assuming the kicker has an appropriate shaft length for mounting like this. I'll be interested to see your final throttle and steering linkage setup, along with closeups of the finished mounting point - the final photo is a little too far away to make out the details.
jimh posted 05-30-2007 02:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
As Ray mentions in the article, once the weather warms up in Ontario, he will complete the refinishing of the hull laminate in the cut-out area. We'll add more photographs and text to show how that was done, too. Many thanks to Ray for this excellently photographed article. It can be hard to take all the pictures needed while you are performing a modification. I think Ray did a great job of documenting his work.
mikeyairtime posted 05-30-2007 10:40 AM ET (US)     Profile for mikeyairtime    
Very nice.
andygere posted 05-30-2007 06:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
Nice work on the installation Ray. It must have taken a bit of nerve to cut into your boat, but the clean, functional installation surely made it worthwhile. My old classic Montauk had a bracket mounted kicker, and I regularly cursed that bracket, and would have torn it off and clamped the motor directly, but it was a 15" shaft motor that would have needed to be extended. I always thought the ability to clamp a kicker directly to the transom was one of the key design features of the old Whalers. Perhaps the engineers at Whaler will see your slick installation and modify the molds for the new Montauks.
fisherman posted 05-30-2007 07:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for fisherman  Send Email to fisherman     
Mikeyairtime & Andygere
Thank you gentleman for the compliments.
When I made the first two hacksaw cuts my nerves were in pretty good shape and, I said to myself onwards for "he who hesitates is lost". However, when I gripped the grinder and clicked it on.....my heart jumped up to my throat. But, once I got over the intial shock the rest went rather smoothly.
One thing for certain, make sure your wife is NOT AROUND. When I informed her of my intentions, her response was, " forget about it, are you crazy, that's a new expensive boat and you won't be purchasing another one" However, I'm happy to say she is very pleased with the end result.
Ray
timsr posted 05-31-2007 03:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for timsr  Send Email to timsr     
Do you intend on running a seperate fuel line from one of the tanks to the aux motor and is there enough room to do that in the existing channel.

Thanks

erik selis posted 05-31-2007 05:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for erik selis  Send Email to erik selis     
Very nice, informative and clear article. I just may try it on my own 170 Montauk when I mount my auxiliary motor.
I plan on mounting a 8-hp Mercury, 2-cylinder 4-stroke. I think this would also work well for this engine. I'm pretty sure it would make starting and steering much easier.
Thanks for the effort and time in documenting your work. It's what makes this site what it is. The best !

Erik

Barney posted 06-01-2007 09:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barney  Send Email to Barney     
That took guts. Very nice job. Jim
fisherman posted 06-04-2007 05:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for fisherman  Send Email to fisherman     
Timser:
At the moment I've spliced into the 90hp fuel line a short distance from the primer bulb with a 5/16 t-fitting. Do not know yet if it will function properly but will next week when I launch and take additional photo's for the article. Also, I do not know if there is sufficient room in the existing channel. Will let you know if I have to go that route? Hope not?
Erik: Your Merc 8 4stroke should fit into the cut-out but you may have to go a wee bit wider?
Barney: Thanks.
Ray
fisherman posted 06-18-2007 06:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for fisherman  Send Email to fisherman     
Hello All:

Had my 170 out for a watertest last week. All systems worked excellent. The fuel-line splice I made about centre of the main, between the primer bulb and where it enters the cowl of the 90, functions A-1. It does not matter which motor is running or if their both running, neither syphons fuel from the other.
Also, the tie-rod connection works superb in all situations ie. one up the other down.
Further photo's of the entire modification have been sent for posting to Jim Hebert.
Ray

timsr posted 06-20-2007 09:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for timsr  Send Email to timsr     
What type of tie rod did you use. Are you using the primer to prime either engine and did you take a picture of the fuel line connection.

Thanks

Tim

cgaux posted 06-26-2007 04:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for cgaux  Send Email to cgaux     
I wouldn't suggest anyone do this kind of major structural changes to a Boston WHaler in that area for a couple of reasons. Firstly, opening and exposing the foam core to the elements is playing with fire. The tilt mechanism on that motor, in the manual clearly states its not for use while trailering or underway on a boat. There are well designed brackets for this purpose and there are many fabricators that can design and install something that will only require a few holes for mounting bolts. Good luck
Plotman posted 06-26-2007 05:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for Plotman  Send Email to Plotman     
A little bit of catastrophizing never hurt anything, did it. What this author did is no different than putting in a drain tube, which in many cases is much less well sealed than what was done here. Hardly "playing with fire", by any stretch of the imagination.

And then you claim that the motor isn't suitable for use as a kicker because the tilt mechanism isn't really designed to tilt the motor?

Nice first post to the forum. Welcome.

fisherman posted 06-27-2007 09:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for fisherman  Send Email to fisherman     
timsr: check your e-mail.
cgaux: please be advised this modification was just that. There was absolutely nothing major about it. Further, the small area that was exposed you must remember was momentarily, then it was sealed right back as before. I agree the Merc 5hp tilt assembly was not designed for trailering in the up postion. However, it is designed to trailer in the down position. Lastly, the modification " Without Question," is far superior to any fabricated bracket that I have seen thus far for a kicker this size.
Plotman: Well said, Thank You.
Ray
jimh posted 07-12-2007 09:13 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
UPDATE: July 12, 2007

Eight additional pictures have been added to show the final installation after the weather warmed enough to permit the modified section of the hull to be properly finished with matching gel coat resin. The pictures show many details of the installation, including the Trollmaster throttle control.

jimh posted 07-12-2007 09:29 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Ray--In my opinion your modification was very well done, a first-class job. Again, thanks for sending in the photographs, which were of excellent quality and on par with your workmanship on the boat.
erik selis posted 07-12-2007 10:05 AM ET (US)     Profile for erik selis  Send Email to erik selis     
Ray, I am also interested in what type of tie rod you used.

You did a fine job with that project.

Erik

Rich M posted 07-12-2007 10:41 AM ET (US)     Profile for Rich M  Send Email to Rich M     
Very nicely done Ray, a really first class job. Your wonderful reference article convinced me that the job was over my head, I chickened out and had a heavy duty bracket installed instead. It works well although yours is a much better solution. I did choose the same motor though and have been very happy with it in all conditions so far.
andygere posted 07-12-2007 04:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
Now that I've seen the final rigging, I'm even more impressed. The fuel, steering and remote throttle controls are clean and unobtrusive.

Electronic throttle and shift controls should be an option on the specialty "kicker" motors sold these days, such as the Yamaha T-8 and the Mercury 9.9 pro kicker. This eliminates the rat's nest of cables and wiring in the splashwell, and eliminates the need for a dual binnacle control. The aftermarket system looks good, and I'm interested to hear how well it works.

fisherman posted 07-14-2007 04:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for fisherman  Send Email to fisherman     

Andygere. The Trollmaster Pro 11 ( remote throttle control)functions superbly. A great invention, in my opinion.
Ray
AQUANUT posted 08-02-2007 12:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for AQUANUT  Send Email to AQUANUT     
great job!...so far I have done 6 like this...first one was in 2005....I have been the rigger here at a WHALER dealership here in Oregon..I used an black vinyl to seal the rub rail where it was cut..I have installed up to a 9.9hp in this same exact fashion.
regards
Terry
now a salesman,mercury technician/ex rigger.
fishinchips posted 08-07-2007 03:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for fishinchips  Send Email to fishinchips     
very nice. The trollmaster and the removable linkage really helps out alot.

Ken (170 montauk / 22 hydrasport wa)

wywhaler posted 08-09-2007 03:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for wywhaler  Send Email to wywhaler     
Does this type of modification affect the hull warranty?

Ron

fisherman posted 08-09-2007 09:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for fisherman  Send Email to fisherman     
Aquanut - Hi Terry.. Thanks. As I recall, I came across your post last year and attempted to reach you via your then e-mail. The reason was to secure a photo or details from you relative to the modification. Since I had no luck making contact...You now see the results.
Fishinchips - Ken.. Thanks.
Wywhaler - Ron.. I suppose it may if any claim being made was relative to the modification ie; water entry / spider cracking; otherwise no. Why should it.
Since the mod..I've put about 20 hours running time with the kicker at various speed ranges from idle to wot and there is absolutely no signs of any stress in the area.
Ray
wywhaler posted 08-10-2007 12:31 AM ET (US)     Profile for wywhaler  Send Email to wywhaler     
Ray:

Have no idea if it would or wouldn't; that's why I asked. If you remember earlier this year we discussed the kicker situation on CW and I ultimately inquired of BW Customer Service whether or not mounting a CMC PT-35 bracket on the starboard transom would be a problem with the hull warranty. Their answer was that it would not affect the warranty if the bracket was through bolted and sealed with 3M4200.

Taking the PT-35 off and mounting it your way would eliminate about 25 lbs. on the transom. Considering that the PT-35 is hydraulically operated, there's no knuckle busting to remedy. If there was some real advantage to changing over, I might give it a try. If the PT-35 ever go's out I might seal the holes with dowel and epoxy and give it a try.

Ron

Ablewis posted 02-16-2009 09:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ablewis  Send Email to Ablewis     
When I looked at this reference section, I was surprised to see that the two motors are fueled by the same line with a t-fitting. It says, "There has not been a problem with siphoning from the non-running motor" When would you have to worry about the non-running motor creating a siphoning effect? I thought about rigging my auxilery motor in this fashion but was told that it could create a siphoning effect.
fisherman posted 02-17-2009 07:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for fisherman  Send Email to fisherman     
Hi Ablewis:

Under no circumstances does one motor siphon from the other. Makes no difference which scenerio you apply. Both running...one running and the other not has no fuel loss effect on the one not running when you go to start it back up later.
Ray

fishinchips posted 02-24-2009 01:37 AM ET (US)     Profile for fishinchips  Send Email to fishinchips     
If you have a fuel/water seperator. One output of the seperator goes to the main motor. There is another output that you can use for the kicker motor.

Ken

fisherman posted 02-24-2009 01:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for fisherman  Send Email to fisherman     
Thanks Ken,
I plan on installing one this spring if it ever arrives.
Ray
Kencvit posted 03-06-2009 02:28 AM ET (US)     Profile for Kencvit  Send Email to Kencvit     
fisherman, Thats a great installation. I`ve wondered about doing something similar on my 190 nantucket/outrage. You have solved the problems that a bracket presents,
1.cost of bracket 150-500
2.weight of bracket 25-50 pds.
3.inability to use a tie-bar with a bracket as the engines
are off set too much.

Your using a 20" shaft? I think I`d need a 25".
Did you have the tie-bar fabricated? or did you buy it?
Thanks,Ken

fisherman posted 03-11-2009 06:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for fisherman  Send Email to fisherman     
Thanks Ken:

Yes, it is a 20" shaft.
The main rod is a 1 / 2 " NF B7 Threaded.
Rather than repeat everything here, check you e-mail.
Ray

joe wethington posted 08-15-2010 12:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for joe wethington  Send Email to joe wethington     
Ray, geat job. Looks fantastic. Just wondering after 3 years of use how it's holding up. I'm thinking about doing my 170 Montauk.
Thanks,
Joe
fisherman posted 08-21-2010 10:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for fisherman  Send Email to fisherman     
Hi Joe:

It is holding up superbly. Not even a wimper of any cracking in the gelcoat finish. Additionally, the tie rod and fuel connections are functioning excellent as is the Trollmaster remote throttle.
Ray

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