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Author Topic:   190 MONTAUK: Value of Verado Option

Whalerdog posted 07-25-2007 10:28 PM ET (US)
I am going on a test ride in a 190 Montauk with a 115 Mercury. Is buying an 2008 with a 135 Verado for [an estimated] $6,000 more worth it? Not looking to go super fast which I have done in the past offshore racing. Is the punch much different? I would guess 3-MPH to 4-MPH faster with a 135. I am afraid anything I try will feel abnormal after racing for years. Main purpose for boat is taking a ride and finding some chop to play with. Still remember riding in a 13 Whaler in the 1960's and thinking it would not make it over the next wave. Looking for a little fun in the rough. What waves will a 190 Montauk handle crusing at 40 MPH? I have seen my share of rough water racing and love it. [Should the] stock prop [be] good or [should I] get a different one for better performance?. I will get a spare in any case. [Seeks] suggestions. I will usually run it with one or two people around Long Island. Thanks!
Is the new 115 a new Mercury design and not a Yamaha as I am told?
jimh posted 07-25-2007 11:50 PM ET (US)
For information on the Mercury "FourStroke" 115 search on the term "Veradito."
highanddry posted 07-26-2007 03:55 AM ET (US)
Your not going to be running 40 MPH in a Montauk 190 with a 115 engine. Not only that, even if you could you will do so only in light chop. It is not possible to run that fast in any 19 foot boat in 2 plus foot chop or larger. It will beat the crap out of you. It won't be much different if you move to the Outrage 190, a little more speed is avaialble in good water but when you hit the rough stuff you will find yourself backing off quickly. This is not a condemnation of either boat, simply a fact that all similar sized boats will suffer from. The Outrage 190 and I imagine the Montauck 190 are rated for Class II conditions, large open bodies of water, open bays, near (off)shore crusing.
Jordi posted 07-26-2007 08:25 AM ET (US)
highanddry,
Class 2 for the 190 what is the rating of the other Outrages?
jimh posted 07-26-2007 10:00 AM ET (US)
Boston Whaler tests and selects the propeller on their boat and motor combinations from the extensive line of Mercury propellers available, so there is no reason to think that you ought to immediately replace the propeller. The only reason to get a different propeller might be if your use of the boat was far from normal, that is, much heavier loads or some other change from the typical usage for which the factory propeller was selected. Cruising around with one or two people sounds to me like very normal use, so the propeller ought to be satisfactory for that type of operation.
nemored posted 07-26-2007 01:01 PM ET (US)
Hydry is wrong on the Montauk 19's speed (again). The boat will do 40mph with the Merc 115 on flat water. I know, I have gone that fast serveral times with two people and a full tank. Check out the Whaler performance test, they confirm it too. Hydry is dead on that you will not be doing that in any chop.
Both the Outrage and Montauk 19's draw 12' of water but their hulls are different shaped. The Montauk (flat hull) does not need as much power to move it at the speed speed as an Outrage. Look at the bottom of the hulls some time.
highanddry posted 07-26-2007 02:25 PM ET (US)
A 150 horse Outrage 190 will run 45 MPH fully loaded, at least mine will with the Mirage Plus. I am now using a Rev 4 which dropped a couple of miles per hour but accelerates like I lit an afterburner. I will stick with what I said concerning the water conditions, you can go out in some mighty rough stuff but your not going to be running 40 MPH. Your going to be slogging it out just above planning speed where the extra punch and and acceleration of maxed out horsepower are important to sea handling. The four blade prop really hooks up but when I get tabs I may go back to the Mirage Plus.
Boston Whaler has the manuals on line, read them if you like. I don't know if they have sea class ratings on all of their boats or that it is even a significant rating to be concerned with.
I am certain that both the Montauk 190 nad oUtrage 190 should be capable of similar seas. The Montauk has a little less freeboard but both boats have self bailing deck scuppers and notched out transom to dump water and plenty of reserve bouyancy and flotation.
Peter posted 07-26-2007 03:58 PM ET (US)
The 25 inch Verado 135/150/175 weighs in at something close to 525 lbs. Last time I checked, a 190 Montauk has a maximum transom weight specification of 410 lbs.
Whalerdog posted 07-26-2007 06:01 PM ET (US)
I have a qoute on a 115 vs a 135 Verado and it is near 7,000 more for an 08 / 135 vs 07 / 115. I will get a test ride on a 115 on Sat or Sun. I had a demo of the 115 on a 18' Laguna and it did about 38 with three people. Not sure how much more the motor is costing in the equation vs the 07/08 boat difference. Thanks for the replies.
porchmonkeycontrol posted 07-26-2007 11:21 PM ET (US)
whalerdog, with your background,knowing that you want to have fun and eat chop @40 mph, perhaps a new whaler is simply not the right boat for your application. A beautiful classic 13 whaler can be bought to cherish the unforgettable memories.when you step up to the 40K plus category today, the "not super fast" description is a highly relative and debatable term,for no new whalers are truly considered fast even at max hp rating any more.fast is honest 50, not 41- 45 mph. most competitive super premium center consoles in the premium price category(yes,the whaler fits this category even if you save 8k with the training wheel motor) are capable of hitting close or better than 50..not at all knocking a whaler, but a true 24 degree deep v with 200+ bolted on the back would seem more to fit an offshore racer's style. just because you have the power dosn't mean you have to use it.alot of people here don't seem to understand that and think that if you want a big motor your a "south florida speed demon" and that is simply not the case,I agree with high and dry attitude of power for I am a well seasoned 25 year veteran captain of trolling in the gulfstream and could tell countless stories of rapidly changing sea condions and cover ground quickly to dodge storm stories.
If a whaler is your choice the saltier outrage with 150 hp will make the better "chop eater" but if considering the montauk,the verado will be worth the extra 8k just for the midrange punch and cruise.I simply am one of those that was taught many years ago there is no such thing as having too much power on a boat.just because it's there,doesn't mean you have to use it.If racing truly ran thru your viens,you simply won't be happy with a 115 on the big montauk,regardless of $$$ savings...
highanddry posted 07-27-2007 02:06 PM ET (US)
I don't think your looking at the right boat or even the right size boat. Our Nantucket(Outrage) 190 can run easily at 35 MPH in significant chop, the engine is hardly working at that speed with a lot of throttle left. However, if your planning on going 40 MPH in anything more than "chop" is your plan then a 19 foot boat just is not going to cut it.
I have noticed in those times we were out in what most people would at least call rough we were not the only boat backing down or deciding to stay in and many were much larger than us. I was running out ot the canyon area out of destin in some pretty good waves and keeping pace with a 24 foot Regulator. I noted he did not care to go faster but at the same time he waqs running smooth and we were getting pounded. OK, why was I in a hurry. Because I wanted to get to a dive spot first and I knew the local diveshops were both headed that way in their charter boats so I passed both of them and then kept the throttle down long enough to ensure I could get their and anchor up ahead of them. It was a long run out and we got there about 10 minutes ahead of them, I passed them right out of the inlet. I might be about an inch shorter than I used to be--lol--just kidding it was not that bad. Oh, the regulaotr, he could I am sure have run 40 plus MPH and still be no worse a ride than we were getting that day. After a bit he looked over at me and I cut in behind him and let him bust the water for me, he waved and we waved back---thanks whoever you were.
lurkynot posted 07-28-2007 12:49 PM ET (US)
There has been more than enough talk in blogs and at the local Mercury dealers in my local area about the availability of hardware/software and trained techs for the Verado power plants. Just because someone sells them does not mean they can service them. I am not at all saying they are at fault either. As a dealer you have to take so much stock to stay in the pipeline of product. I am sure Mercury is doing all they can to remedy this if in fact is it an issue. That would definately weigh in to my decision when choosing an outboard. There are after all some very capable 2 strokkes in Mercury's lineup that are proven.
Whalerdog posted 07-28-2007 10:46 PM ET (US)
http://shielsmasonry.com/P75skater.jpg
http://shielsmasonry.com/photofinish.jpg
http://shielsmasonry.com/pocono821longbank.jpg
racing ran deep in my veins.
The 36' outboard boat did about 112 mph and the inboard did 145 mph but was too short for it's class. That was my fiends boat. I ran with various people if I didn't have a boat at the moment if one was being built or it was a off year I always hitched a ride.

I took a ride today in some 2-3 chop although not driving just throttling a bit I was happy with the performance. I am not looking to go wild again. Living on the water and watching boats goes by started eating at me. It was fun to see the boat go. I will take it in some bigger water if I purchase it for amusement. I like the open feeling and it won't take big motor to amuse me. I don't feel the extra 4-mph will be worth 7 grand. It planed off ok with three people and I don't ever see myself with more than 4 on board. Before I started racing I had a 25' Checkmate in 1983 with a single 225 or 200 on it and burned $1050.00 in gas in a month at the cheap prices then. It did 50 mph with the single and 75 with twins when I started racing it the next year. I have seen some rough water racing. One of the worst was in Grand Haven MI. We were running a 32 Skater in steep curling 6' waves at 80-90 mph and staying on top a few friends were not so luck and stuffed the boats taking the cowlings off the motors and sending them to the hospital. It may seem strange that I now want a Whaler.
I was looking for a 16' Chrysler Charger on Ebay and found one. I had a 14' one in 1968. I went to PA to pick it up and knew it would need major work being at least made before 73. The boat was missing rub rails and the floor was like peat moss. Someone tried removing the transom wood and stopped. I doubt I could have loaded it on my car trailer with out it falling apart. Then I got the Whaler idea.
The boat was solid and dry running in every angle of attack of the waves. Once a slight spray and it was warm. Something I can spend 34+ out the door and not have the worry of payments. Guess if I won Lotto I would buy a 40' Skater. I have spend enough on boats. I also road race a Corvette which is another hobby and I do want a new sport bike next year.
This is one of thoughts deals where you want what you wanted when you were a kid like a muscle car. I guess I could go for a 21 Outrage sitting next to the 19 Montauk but it would open a new can of worms as I would be able to punish the boat more before myself. I will sleep on it for a few days to see if I am going Whaling. It seemed simple and easy to maintain. Didn't look at taking the cowl off after reading another thread I hope it is not that bad. I am sure I will take a few over the bow playing.
Thanks for all the tips and info!
Thanks if you got this far into my rambling and I did proof read it sorry for any errors. Hope I am looking at a Whaler in my dock soon he has a deposit.

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Author	Topic: 190 MONTAUK: Value of Verado Option
Whalerdog	posted 07-25-2007 10:28 PM ET (US) I am going on a test ride in a 190 Montauk with a 115 Mercury. Is buying an 2008 with a 135 Verado for [an estimated] $6,000 more worth it? Not looking to go super fast which I have done in the past offshore racing. Is the punch much different? I would guess 3-MPH to 4-MPH faster with a 135. I am afraid anything I try will feel abnormal after racing for years. Main purpose for boat is taking a ride and finding some chop to play with. Still remember riding in a 13 Whaler in the 1960's and thinking it would not make it over the next wave. Looking for a little fun in the rough. What waves will a 190 Montauk handle crusing at 40 MPH? I have seen my share of rough water racing and love it. [Should the] stock prop [be] good or [should I] get a different one for better performance?. I will get a spare in any case. [Seeks] suggestions. I will usually run it with one or two people around Long Island. Thanks! Is the new 115 a new Mercury design and not a Yamaha as I am told?
jimh	posted 07-25-2007 11:50 PM ET (US) For information on the Mercury "FourStroke" 115 search on the term "Veradito."
highanddry	posted 07-26-2007 03:55 AM ET (US) Your not going to be running 40 MPH in a Montauk 190 with a 115 engine. Not only that, even if you could you will do so only in light chop. It is not possible to run that fast in any 19 foot boat in 2 plus foot chop or larger. It will beat the crap out of you. It won't be much different if you move to the Outrage 190, a little more speed is avaialble in good water but when you hit the rough stuff you will find yourself backing off quickly. This is not a condemnation of either boat, simply a fact that all similar sized boats will suffer from. The Outrage 190 and I imagine the Montauck 190 are rated for Class II conditions, large open bodies of water, open bays, near (off)shore crusing.
Jordi	posted 07-26-2007 08:25 AM ET (US) highanddry, Class 2 for the 190 what is the rating of the other Outrages?
jimh	posted 07-26-2007 10:00 AM ET (US) Boston Whaler tests and selects the propeller on their boat and motor combinations from the extensive line of Mercury propellers available, so there is no reason to think that you ought to immediately replace the propeller. The only reason to get a different propeller might be if your use of the boat was far from normal, that is, much heavier loads or some other change from the typical usage for which the factory propeller was selected. Cruising around with one or two people sounds to me like very normal use, so the propeller ought to be satisfactory for that type of operation.
nemored	posted 07-26-2007 01:01 PM ET (US) Hydry is wrong on the Montauk 19's speed (again). The boat will do 40mph with the Merc 115 on flat water. I know, I have gone that fast serveral times with two people and a full tank. Check out the Whaler performance test, they confirm it too. Hydry is dead on that you will not be doing that in any chop. Both the Outrage and Montauk 19's draw 12' of water but their hulls are different shaped. The Montauk (flat hull) does not need as much power to move it at the speed speed as an Outrage. Look at the bottom of the hulls some time.
highanddry	posted 07-26-2007 02:25 PM ET (US) A 150 horse Outrage 190 will run 45 MPH fully loaded, at least mine will with the Mirage Plus. I am now using a Rev 4 which dropped a couple of miles per hour but accelerates like I lit an afterburner. I will stick with what I said concerning the water conditions, you can go out in some mighty rough stuff but your not going to be running 40 MPH. Your going to be slogging it out just above planning speed where the extra punch and and acceleration of maxed out horsepower are important to sea handling. The four blade prop really hooks up but when I get tabs I may go back to the Mirage Plus. Boston Whaler has the manuals on line, read them if you like. I don't know if they have sea class ratings on all of their boats or that it is even a significant rating to be concerned with. I am certain that both the Montauk 190 nad oUtrage 190 should be capable of similar seas. The Montauk has a little less freeboard but both boats have self bailing deck scuppers and notched out transom to dump water and plenty of reserve bouyancy and flotation.
Peter	posted 07-26-2007 03:58 PM ET (US) The 25 inch Verado 135/150/175 weighs in at something close to 525 lbs. Last time I checked, a 190 Montauk has a maximum transom weight specification of 410 lbs.
Whalerdog	posted 07-26-2007 06:01 PM ET (US) I have a qoute on a 115 vs a 135 Verado and it is near 7,000 more for an 08 / 135 vs 07 / 115. I will get a test ride on a 115 on Sat or Sun. I had a demo of the 115 on a 18' Laguna and it did about 38 with three people. Not sure how much more the motor is costing in the equation vs the 07/08 boat difference. Thanks for the replies.
porchmonkeycontrol	posted 07-26-2007 11:21 PM ET (US) whalerdog, with your background,knowing that you want to have fun and eat chop @40 mph, perhaps a new whaler is simply not the right boat for your application. A beautiful classic 13 whaler can be bought to cherish the unforgettable memories.when you step up to the 40K plus category today, the "not super fast" description is a highly relative and debatable term,for no new whalers are truly considered fast even at max hp rating any more.fast is honest 50, not 41- 45 mph. most competitive super premium center consoles in the premium price category(yes,the whaler fits this category even if you save 8k with the training wheel motor) are capable of hitting close or better than 50..not at all knocking a whaler, but a true 24 degree deep v with 200+ bolted on the back would seem more to fit an offshore racer's style. just because you have the power dosn't mean you have to use it.alot of people here don't seem to understand that and think that if you want a big motor your a "south florida speed demon" and that is simply not the case,I agree with high and dry attitude of power for I am a well seasoned 25 year veteran captain of trolling in the gulfstream and could tell countless stories of rapidly changing sea condions and cover ground quickly to dodge storm stories. If a whaler is your choice the saltier outrage with 150 hp will make the better "chop eater" but if considering the montauk,the verado will be worth the extra 8k just for the midrange punch and cruise.I simply am one of those that was taught many years ago there is no such thing as having too much power on a boat.just because it's there,doesn't mean you have to use it.If racing truly ran thru your viens,you simply won't be happy with a 115 on the big montauk,regardless of $$$ savings...
highanddry	posted 07-27-2007 02:06 PM ET (US) I don't think your looking at the right boat or even the right size boat. Our Nantucket(Outrage) 190 can run easily at 35 MPH in significant chop, the engine is hardly working at that speed with a lot of throttle left. However, if your planning on going 40 MPH in anything more than "chop" is your plan then a 19 foot boat just is not going to cut it. I have noticed in those times we were out in what most people would at least call rough we were not the only boat backing down or deciding to stay in and many were much larger than us. I was running out ot the canyon area out of destin in some pretty good waves and keeping pace with a 24 foot Regulator. I noted he did not care to go faster but at the same time he waqs running smooth and we were getting pounded. OK, why was I in a hurry. Because I wanted to get to a dive spot first and I knew the local diveshops were both headed that way in their charter boats so I passed both of them and then kept the throttle down long enough to ensure I could get their and anchor up ahead of them. It was a long run out and we got there about 10 minutes ahead of them, I passed them right out of the inlet. I might be about an inch shorter than I used to be--lol--just kidding it was not that bad. Oh, the regulaotr, he could I am sure have run 40 plus MPH and still be no worse a ride than we were getting that day. After a bit he looked over at me and I cut in behind him and let him bust the water for me, he waved and we waved back---thanks whoever you were.
lurkynot	posted 07-28-2007 12:49 PM ET (US) There has been more than enough talk in blogs and at the local Mercury dealers in my local area about the availability of hardware/software and trained techs for the Verado power plants. Just because someone sells them does not mean they can service them. I am not at all saying they are at fault either. As a dealer you have to take so much stock to stay in the pipeline of product. I am sure Mercury is doing all they can to remedy this if in fact is it an issue. That would definately weigh in to my decision when choosing an outboard. There are after all some very capable 2 strokkes in Mercury's lineup that are proven.
Whalerdog	posted 07-28-2007 10:46 PM ET (US) http://shielsmasonry.com/P75skater.jpg http://shielsmasonry.com/photofinish.jpg http://shielsmasonry.com/pocono821longbank.jpg racing ran deep in my veins. The 36' outboard boat did about 112 mph and the inboard did 145 mph but was too short for it's class. That was my fiends boat. I ran with various people if I didn't have a boat at the moment if one was being built or it was a off year I always hitched a ride. I took a ride today in some 2-3 chop although not driving just throttling a bit I was happy with the performance. I am not looking to go wild again. Living on the water and watching boats goes by started eating at me. It was fun to see the boat go. I will take it in some bigger water if I purchase it for amusement. I like the open feeling and it won't take big motor to amuse me. I don't feel the extra 4-mph will be worth 7 grand. It planed off ok with three people and I don't ever see myself with more than 4 on board. Before I started racing I had a 25' Checkmate in 1983 with a single 225 or 200 on it and burned $1050.00 in gas in a month at the cheap prices then. It did 50 mph with the single and 75 with twins when I started racing it the next year. I have seen some rough water racing. One of the worst was in Grand Haven MI. We were running a 32 Skater in steep curling 6' waves at 80-90 mph and staying on top a few friends were not so luck and stuffed the boats taking the cowlings off the motors and sending them to the hospital. It may seem strange that I now want a Whaler. I was looking for a 16' Chrysler Charger on Ebay and found one. I had a 14' one in 1968. I went to PA to pick it up and knew it would need major work being at least made before 73. The boat was missing rub rails and the floor was like peat moss. Someone tried removing the transom wood and stopped. I doubt I could have loaded it on my car trailer with out it falling apart. Then I got the Whaler idea. The boat was solid and dry running in every angle of attack of the waves. Once a slight spray and it was warm. Something I can spend 34+ out the door and not have the worry of payments. Guess if I won Lotto I would buy a 40' Skater. I have spend enough on boats. I also road race a Corvette which is another hobby and I do want a new sport bike next year. This is one of thoughts deals where you want what you wanted when you were a kid like a muscle car. I guess I could go for a 21 Outrage sitting next to the 19 Montauk but it would open a new can of worms as I would be able to punish the boat more before myself. I will sleep on it for a few days to see if I am going Whaling. It seemed simple and easy to maintain. Didn't look at taking the cowl off after reading another thread I hope it is not that bad. I am sure I will take a few over the bow playing. Thanks for all the tips and info! Thanks if you got this far into my rambling and I did proof read it sorry for any errors. Hope I am looking at a Whaler in my dock soon he has a deposit.