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Author Topic:   Swim Platform on Montauks

flyfisherman posted 05-02-2008 05:37 PM ET (US)

I saw a Montauk the other day with a permanently mounted swim plaform on the stern. Does anybody have any experience with this?
I was told that the stern isn't strong enough for a swim platform but I must've been misinformed.
Is there any particular brand that might be better than others.
Thanks.
GreatBayNH posted 05-03-2008 04:53 AM ET (US)
The swim platform is an option from the factory. I have one. Works fine for me.
Feejer posted 05-03-2008 08:56 AM ET (US)
Who ever told you that has no idea what they are talking about
flyfisherman posted 05-03-2008 09:39 AM ET (US)

Thanks...obviously, I got some bad advice/information.
Let me ask this: If I put on a swim platform, would it interfere with the transducer for the bottom machine? I've got a live bait box mounted on the other side and can't put the transducer there.
Casco Bay Outrage posted 05-03-2008 01:58 PM ET (US)
I think someone is confusing the Montauk with the Montauk 170.
For the classic Montauk, there is no backing wood in certain areas for attachment points so swim ladders are not recommended without taking added steps.
Just because someone says Montauk, you need to clarify...which model.
C B O

GreatBayNH posted 05-03-2008 03:26 PM ET (US)
CBO,
great point.
Flyfisherman,
Assuming you have a 170, I'd say the swim ladder would not be in the way of a transducer if installed on the same side as the ladder. Here is an image of my stern (Montauk 170).
http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i316/srcbell/2008%20Season%20Prep/ Northstar%20F210%20Install/?action=view¤t=image020.jpg
Even if I moved the transducer to port it would clear the lower SS ladder support bracket. That said the newer Montauk's have a swim ladder that doesn't have the SS support brackets like mine so you'd be even better off getting one of those. Your choice.
Hope this helps.
-Seth
flyfisherman posted 05-03-2008 04:12 PM ET (US)

Ours is an 88 model so I'm assuming it's the classic and not the 170.
That being the case, it sounds like they are not recommended?
GreatBayNH posted 05-03-2008 07:53 PM ET (US)
Why did you post your question in the post-classic section?
Casco Bay Outrage posted 05-03-2008 08:36 PM ET (US)
Fly -
I had a 1987, exactly the same as yours and it had a swim ladder.
Photos here: http://picasaweb.google.com/CascoBayOutrage/1987Montauk
Note for this type ladder, the upper strut was through bolted but the platform and strut bolts were lag bolts. It worked okay but was not used much.
If I were to install one on your boat, I would look for one that did not have the lower strut.
Have you considered a over the gunnel type ladder. Lots of members have these instead. Do a search and you can read up on the choices.
C B O
Chuck Tribolet posted 05-03-2008 11:05 PM ET (US)
It depends on the year of the classic Montauk. The early
ones didn't have the wood in the transom there, the later ones
did. My '97ish does. I'm told it can be done on the early
ones by injecting epoxy behind the glass.

Chuck
flyfisherman posted 05-04-2008 12:26 PM ET (US)

Thanks guys...
Hey CBO...those are great pictures. Do I see a transducer under your ladder? I'm worried about that because I have a bait box mounted to the port stern. I'll have to put the ladder on the starboard stern where I have my transducer mounted.
So...so more questions come to mind.
Do they make swim platforms where the grab rail thing is on the right side for starboard situations?
I have my stern light on the starboard side. By law, can I move it to the port side so it's not in the way when using the ladder?
Thanks guys.
Casco Bay Outrage posted 05-04-2008 05:59 PM ET (US)
Fly -
If you take a close look at this platform, it appears you can unbolt the strut and reverse it to mount on starboard side.
This is the lowest price I found for this style in a quick search.
http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,30440.html
On moving the light, I do not think there is a Coast Guard or state law specifying which side of the stern the light is on. While most Montauks had the stern light on the stern, port side, my 1991 Outrage 17 has the light on the stern, starboard side.
I would leave the light where it is to stay OEM.
If you need to stay with a teak one, see http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|10391|299235&id=91857 Defender has a good reputation.
While it does not appear the bolt holes line up (for changing the rail/strut), I would just drill them to make it work.
I would do a test fit to see if the lower strut would interfere. I am not sure it would.
Hope this helps.
flyfisherman posted 05-05-2008 02:06 PM ET (US)
Hey CBO...
Thanks for your help and I really mean that. You obviously know a lot more about this stuff than I do.
I read where you thru bolted the ladder (using lag bolts as well) and it did fine. Someone else said you had to take special steps with the classic Montauks. I'm not sure what those steps are but did you do anything special or extra?
Since I'm not real handy, I'll probably take it somewhere so hopefully they would know. However, I do want to be as informed as possible.
Thanks for sending over that link. I like the teak one a lot.
Also, out of curiousity, on moving the lights...what does to stay "EOM" mean? AS I say, just curious.
Tohsgib posted 05-05-2008 02:48 PM ET (US)
Do NOT mount a swim platform on a 1988 17' unless you have it done by a dealer or somebody familiar with the lack of wood in the transom. I have owned 3 Montauks that had aftermarket platforms on them and ALL if them had major issues with either water intrusion and/or bolts ripping out. Secondly if you catch some air and land stern heavy you can literally rip it right out which could cause you to lose control besides the damage to the boat. I highly recommend you look at a Windline folding 3 or 4 step SS hook type ladder that will fit in the console. Boater's world has them at $99. Others will say theirs have been fine, just telling you what I have experienced...not pretty.
flyfisherman posted 05-05-2008 06:45 PM ET (US)

Wow...now you've scared me!
Even with a thru hull mount you still had these problems?
Casco Bay Outrage posted 05-06-2008 09:33 AM ET (US)
I would second Nick's point, go with an over gunnel model. No muss, no fuss.
My boat had one when I bought it and I had to re-fasten it correctly. The lower lags either corroded or broke. A big pain.
Adding a ladder correctly could cost $500 for a yard to do correctly. That is a lot for a ladder. Add the cost of the ladder.
OEM - Original Equipment Manufacturer (how the boat was made originally)
If there is one thing I have learned from the CW family, it is, keep it simple.
C B O
Tohsgib posted 05-06-2008 11:46 AM ET (US)
You can't thru-bolt the lower bolts due to the fact they are in the lower hull foam under the deck. These are the ones that rip out and these are the ones below the waterline. The tops are easy to thru-bolt. Question is do you really need a platform or just want one? If you are older or handicaped I can understand the need for a swim platform, if not just get a ladder. PS many platforms are too wide for a 17 and the engine might hit which is also another consideration.
flyfisherman posted 05-06-2008 06:33 PM ET (US)
Quite honestly, I want one more than I need one.
Thanks for your insights and I think I'll leave this alone. I think you guys just saved me a ton of grie
GreatBayNH posted 05-06-2008 07:22 PM ET (US)
I agree. I have one and hardly use it. I'm in salt water 99% of the time and the tempature doesn't get much higher than 60 degrees in the summer.
GreatBayNH posted 05-06-2008 07:23 PM ET (US)
make that "temperature". Spell check!
flyfisherman posted 05-07-2008 07:21 AM ET (US)

and make mine "grief" in my post above.
I have to remember that spell check is my friend (G).
Thanks again to everyone in this thread. I was ready to do the swim platform thing and I think you guys saved me from myself.
swist posted 05-07-2008 08:49 AM ET (US)
My 2005 Montauk came with a slim platform. Which I rarely use. I would also observe that after 3 years there are rust stains running from under the mounting points - I have to clean these up continuously. I had the same problem with my last two boats, which also had swim 1/2-platforms. Don't they bolt these things on with SS hardware, particularly Whaler?
Nauti Tauk posted 05-07-2008 05:10 PM ET (US)
I agree that unless you have kids or do alot of swimming from the boat while anchored, a swim platform is a waste...but I have one and here's why. My wife and I are 50 something and love to fish and cruise. If, heaven frobid ,I go overboard while fighting a fish or tending a downrigger or am at the stern getting rid of some coffee, how do I get back aboard? Wife can drive the boat up stream from me and let it drift to me but she can't help me aboard. This is why I have a swim platform. As far as getting some serious air and tearing it off the back of the boat, I'd like to think my skills as a captain would negate that situation as much as possible.(hope I worded that properly Jim.)
Tohsgib posted 05-08-2008 01:06 PM ET (US)
Depends on how much fun you want to have. Nothing is better than geting the prop 4' off the water and landing smooth....ah the good ole days in Barnegat Inlet.
I agree that swim platforms are a great thing. I have owned them on MANY boats. There is just a problem with them on pre 1993ish 16-17' hulls. If I was buying a new 170 and they offered it as an option or ??, SURE I would get one, ladders are a pain and dogs can't climb up them well.
Chuck Tribolet posted 05-09-2008 08:21 PM ET (US)
Adm. Linda can get back on my Montauk over the side without
using any upper body strength. I need to get one of my UW
video buddies to shoot some video of it. It's a bit creative.

Chuck
Casco Bay Outrage posted 05-13-2008 01:04 PM ET (US)
With the engine off, I tilt the engine up a bit then step on the top of the anti-cavitation plate then put my other knee on the transom. Not hard at all.
sapple posted 05-13-2008 09:27 PM ET (US)
I think of a swim ladder as an option (like a anchor) that allows you to realize the full capabilities of the boat. It can also be a piece of safety equipment to allow someone to easily and safely get back on board if they end up in the water for whatever reason.
flyfisherman posted 05-14-2008 11:13 AM ET (US)

I've got the classic Montauk not the 170 so I'm a little hesitant to put one on that model from what I've read on here (actually...I'm scared to death (G) ).

If I ever have a spare $600.00 or so and can afford to have it done right...then so be it. Right now it's a luxury that I can live without...at least our two daughters get out of college!
andygere posted 05-14-2008 12:23 PM ET (US)
Here's a tip for emergency board after a MOB incident:
Have the swimmer get to the stern of the boat, and (with the outboard OFF) put both feet on the anti-cav plate and hug the mid section. Now tilt the motor up using the power tilt, and even an exhausted swimmer can be brought back aboard. I tried this one time at anchor just to see if it works and it does.
flyfisherman posted 05-14-2008 04:06 PM ET (US)

Great Idea...and a lot cheaper than $600.00 or so for a ladder properly installed.
Do you have any idea how much weight can you safely put on that using the trim motor?
Tohsgib posted 05-15-2008 12:03 PM ET (US)
Engine will handle any weight you have for the most part. Would not make it a daily habit though as they can slip and cut themselves on the prop or weaken/bend the cav plate, etc.
Ridge Runner posted 05-15-2008 02:01 PM ET (US)
This type of ladder should not pull out:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26451& viewitem=&item=140231465683&_trksid=p3907.m29
You have the two upper supports thru-bolted, one of the lower supports lagged into the engine plywood, and the other into the side plywood. Just ruff up the gelcoat where the two lower supports are attached, coat the lag bolts with 3M's 5200, and coat the support bases with 5200.
Ridge Runner posted 05-15-2008 02:04 PM ET (US)
Also no bolts are below the waterline.
flyfisherman posted 05-16-2008 07:34 AM ET (US)

Thanks so much for that information.
Do you think it would be safe on the classic Montauk? Guys on here have recounted some nightmares trying to put a platform on the older Montauk's.
That's a little "pricier" than some other models I've seen but, if it's safe for the boat and will do the job, I'd rather spend a little more and have it done right.
Thanks for your feedback.
Ridge Runner posted 05-16-2008 11:06 AM ET (US)
I have no affiliation with this ebay seller, but I have had two friends purchase this ladder for a 17 classic and helped them install it. This ladder is custom made for the 17 Montauk, and is very different than any commercial ladder that I have seen. Notice that this ladder mounts much higher on the transom then most, what this fabricator has done is mount a standard three step telescoping ladder on a custom made platform, fyi the telescoping ladder is the same that B/W uses on the Conquest. Because you mount the platform higher, all the mounting bolts are above the waterline, so no worrying about water intrusion into the lower mounting bolts, and it has four mounting points unlike most commercial units that have three, and each mounting points uses two bolts, so eight bolts hold this in place. The top two mounting points are thru-bolted, the right side is lagged into the engine mounting plywood, and the left side is going into the plywood that many people mount a trolling motor bracket through. Just make sure that your installer beds everything extremely well with 3M’s 5200.
flyfisherman posted 05-16-2008 12:04 PM ET (US)

That's great information Ridge Runner. If I do this, I think I'll print your comments off and take it with me to the dealer.
I've been afraid of doing this but it may be that this is the answer. I know this much...if it can't be done properly then I'd be better off with an over-the-transom deal...but I'd rather have this. That way it's always with me.
Thanks again for your insights.
Tohsgib posted 05-16-2008 02:27 PM ET (US)
Fly...if you REALLY want a swim ladder, then why not just get the type that the plate is mounted to the transom, then you insert the 3 -5 rung ladder into the slot? This is not the cheapest way to go but it is what all dive boats use. Should be REAL easy and SAFE to mount. You then would just hang the ladder from a rail when not in use. Then again it is easier and cheaper to get the windline folding SS ladder for $100 and keep it in the console or under front hatch.
Tohsgib posted 05-16-2008 02:30 PM ET (US)
Here http://www.garelick.com/prodcat.php?subid=AB02
Tohsgib posted 05-16-2008 02:32 PM ET (US)
Ps you can get that E-Bay ladder as well but those will hit the engine when turned hard unless modified severely.
Ridge Runner posted 05-16-2008 02:57 PM ET (US)
Tohsgib,
I've installed two of these ladder's and didn't have a problem with the engine hitting the ladder in a hard turn. One was rigged with a Yamaha 90hp 2 cycle, the other with Mercury 115hp 2 cycle, both had about 3.0" - 3.5" inches of clearance. After mounting them properly, I can tell you there is no way they will rip out, just an fyi..
Tohsgib posted 05-16-2008 11:15 PM ET (US)
Good to know and very cool. I just want everyone to know what they might "encounter". Again Ilove swim pllatforms, just never found one that works...souds like a god alternative, etc.
Ridge Runner posted 05-17-2008 08:32 AM ET (US)
I do agree with you on the Garlick boarding ladder, the problem is where do you put the thing on a small boat so it stays out of the way? My quess is you need the 3 step ladder which is 38" long and 13" wide. I had the 4 step on a 25 footer and it was always in the way. If you can find a place to get it out of the way it does work very well, is high quality and a more cost effective approach.
Rich M posted 05-17-2008 08:24 PM ET (US)
I have the Garlick three step dive ladder on my 170 Montauk. It stores in two very strong clips on the rear port gunnel opposite the stern light. We do a lot of snorkeling and I like it better than a platform.
Tohsgib posted 05-19-2008 01:19 PM ET (US)
I bet you could store it on your side rails. This is #12 why I always recommend the Windline folding SS ladder for $99. Stores in front locker or in console.
Mumbo Jumbo posted 05-20-2008 10:20 AM ET (US)
A vote for the swim platform with ladder. Years back, while on painkillers, I went to the dock at night to check on my Outrage. When stepping from the boat back to the dock, I misjudged and fell into the water were a very strong current took me quickly to the stern. As I went by, I was able to grab the swim platform, flip down the ladder, and climb back into the boat. A ladder stowed in the boat would have been of absolutely no value in that circumstance. Situations involving a violent, steep chop also suggest the use of a strong fixed platform and ladder.
flyfisherman posted 05-21-2008 06:01 PM ET (US)

Mumbo Jumbo,
Thanks for you input. All things considered, I'd rather have a permanent ladder mounted on the stern.
Heck...I've fallen in a few times in a swift tide and I wasn't even on painkillers (only Bud Lite). Plus I worry about permanent storage for over-the-transom mounts as well.
I got really spooked at the beginning of this thread but I'm thinking there might be some hope after all. Heck...I guess enough money and you can do anything.
Problem is...I don't have the money!

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Author	Topic: Swim Platform on Montauks
flyfisherman	posted 05-02-2008 05:37 PM ET (US) I saw a Montauk the other day with a permanently mounted swim plaform on the stern. Does anybody have any experience with this? I was told that the stern isn't strong enough for a swim platform but I must've been misinformed. Is there any particular brand that might be better than others. Thanks.
GreatBayNH	posted 05-03-2008 04:53 AM ET (US) The swim platform is an option from the factory. I have one. Works fine for me.
Feejer	posted 05-03-2008 08:56 AM ET (US) Who ever told you that has no idea what they are talking about
flyfisherman	posted 05-03-2008 09:39 AM ET (US) Thanks...obviously, I got some bad advice/information. Let me ask this: If I put on a swim platform, would it interfere with the transducer for the bottom machine? I've got a live bait box mounted on the other side and can't put the transducer there.
Casco Bay Outrage	posted 05-03-2008 01:58 PM ET (US) I think someone is confusing the Montauk with the Montauk 170. For the classic Montauk, there is no backing wood in certain areas for attachment points so swim ladders are not recommended without taking added steps. Just because someone says Montauk, you need to clarify...which model. C B O
GreatBayNH	posted 05-03-2008 03:26 PM ET (US) CBO, great point. Flyfisherman, Assuming you have a 170, I'd say the swim ladder would not be in the way of a transducer if installed on the same side as the ladder. Here is an image of my stern (Montauk 170). http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i316/srcbell/2008%20Season%20Prep/ Northstar%20F210%20Install/?action=view¤t=image020.jpg Even if I moved the transducer to port it would clear the lower SS ladder support bracket. That said the newer Montauk's have a swim ladder that doesn't have the SS support brackets like mine so you'd be even better off getting one of those. Your choice. Hope this helps. -Seth
flyfisherman	posted 05-03-2008 04:12 PM ET (US) Ours is an 88 model so I'm assuming it's the classic and not the 170. That being the case, it sounds like they are not recommended?
GreatBayNH	posted 05-03-2008 07:53 PM ET (US) Why did you post your question in the post-classic section?
Casco Bay Outrage	posted 05-03-2008 08:36 PM ET (US) Fly - I had a 1987, exactly the same as yours and it had a swim ladder. Photos here: http://picasaweb.google.com/CascoBayOutrage/1987Montauk Note for this type ladder, the upper strut was through bolted but the platform and strut bolts were lag bolts. It worked okay but was not used much. If I were to install one on your boat, I would look for one that did not have the lower strut. Have you considered a over the gunnel type ladder. Lots of members have these instead. Do a search and you can read up on the choices. C B O
Chuck Tribolet	posted 05-03-2008 11:05 PM ET (US) It depends on the year of the classic Montauk. The early ones didn't have the wood in the transom there, the later ones did. My '97ish does. I'm told it can be done on the early ones by injecting epoxy behind the glass. Chuck
flyfisherman	posted 05-04-2008 12:26 PM ET (US) Thanks guys... Hey CBO...those are great pictures. Do I see a transducer under your ladder? I'm worried about that because I have a bait box mounted to the port stern. I'll have to put the ladder on the starboard stern where I have my transducer mounted. So...so more questions come to mind. Do they make swim platforms where the grab rail thing is on the right side for starboard situations? I have my stern light on the starboard side. By law, can I move it to the port side so it's not in the way when using the ladder? Thanks guys.
Casco Bay Outrage	posted 05-04-2008 05:59 PM ET (US) Fly - If you take a close look at this platform, it appears you can unbolt the strut and reverse it to mount on starboard side. This is the lowest price I found for this style in a quick search. http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,30440.html On moving the light, I do not think there is a Coast Guard or state law specifying which side of the stern the light is on. While most Montauks had the stern light on the stern, port side, my 1991 Outrage 17 has the light on the stern, starboard side. I would leave the light where it is to stay OEM. If you need to stay with a teak one, see http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1\|10391\|299235&id=91857 Defender has a good reputation. While it does not appear the bolt holes line up (for changing the rail/strut), I would just drill them to make it work. I would do a test fit to see if the lower strut would interfere. I am not sure it would. Hope this helps.
flyfisherman	posted 05-05-2008 02:06 PM ET (US) Hey CBO... Thanks for your help and I really mean that. You obviously know a lot more about this stuff than I do. I read where you thru bolted the ladder (using lag bolts as well) and it did fine. Someone else said you had to take special steps with the classic Montauks. I'm not sure what those steps are but did you do anything special or extra? Since I'm not real handy, I'll probably take it somewhere so hopefully they would know. However, I do want to be as informed as possible. Thanks for sending over that link. I like the teak one a lot. Also, out of curiousity, on moving the lights...what does to stay "EOM" mean? AS I say, just curious.
Tohsgib	posted 05-05-2008 02:48 PM ET (US) Do NOT mount a swim platform on a 1988 17' unless you have it done by a dealer or somebody familiar with the lack of wood in the transom. I have owned 3 Montauks that had aftermarket platforms on them and ALL if them had major issues with either water intrusion and/or bolts ripping out. Secondly if you catch some air and land stern heavy you can literally rip it right out which could cause you to lose control besides the damage to the boat. I highly recommend you look at a Windline folding 3 or 4 step SS hook type ladder that will fit in the console. Boater's world has them at $99. Others will say theirs have been fine, just telling you what I have experienced...not pretty.
flyfisherman	posted 05-05-2008 06:45 PM ET (US) Wow...now you've scared me! Even with a thru hull mount you still had these problems?
Casco Bay Outrage	posted 05-06-2008 09:33 AM ET (US) I would second Nick's point, go with an over gunnel model. No muss, no fuss. My boat had one when I bought it and I had to re-fasten it correctly. The lower lags either corroded or broke. A big pain. Adding a ladder correctly could cost $500 for a yard to do correctly. That is a lot for a ladder. Add the cost of the ladder. OEM - Original Equipment Manufacturer (how the boat was made originally) If there is one thing I have learned from the CW family, it is, keep it simple. C B O
Tohsgib	posted 05-06-2008 11:46 AM ET (US) You can't thru-bolt the lower bolts due to the fact they are in the lower hull foam under the deck. These are the ones that rip out and these are the ones below the waterline. The tops are easy to thru-bolt. Question is do you really need a platform or just want one? If you are older or handicaped I can understand the need for a swim platform, if not just get a ladder. PS many platforms are too wide for a 17 and the engine might hit which is also another consideration.
flyfisherman	posted 05-06-2008 06:33 PM ET (US) Quite honestly, I want one more than I need one. Thanks for your insights and I think I'll leave this alone. I think you guys just saved me a ton of grie
GreatBayNH	posted 05-06-2008 07:22 PM ET (US) I agree. I have one and hardly use it. I'm in salt water 99% of the time and the tempature doesn't get much higher than 60 degrees in the summer.
GreatBayNH	posted 05-06-2008 07:23 PM ET (US) make that "temperature". Spell check!
flyfisherman	posted 05-07-2008 07:21 AM ET (US) and make mine "grief" in my post above. I have to remember that spell check is my friend (G). Thanks again to everyone in this thread. I was ready to do the swim platform thing and I think you guys saved me from myself.
swist	posted 05-07-2008 08:49 AM ET (US) My 2005 Montauk came with a slim platform. Which I rarely use. I would also observe that after 3 years there are rust stains running from under the mounting points - I have to clean these up continuously. I had the same problem with my last two boats, which also had swim 1/2-platforms. Don't they bolt these things on with SS hardware, particularly Whaler?
Nauti Tauk	posted 05-07-2008 05:10 PM ET (US) I agree that unless you have kids or do alot of swimming from the boat while anchored, a swim platform is a waste...but I have one and here's why. My wife and I are 50 something and love to fish and cruise. If, heaven frobid ,I go overboard while fighting a fish or tending a downrigger or am at the stern getting rid of some coffee, how do I get back aboard? Wife can drive the boat up stream from me and let it drift to me but she can't help me aboard. This is why I have a swim platform. As far as getting some serious air and tearing it off the back of the boat, I'd like to think my skills as a captain would negate that situation as much as possible.(hope I worded that properly Jim.)
Tohsgib	posted 05-08-2008 01:06 PM ET (US) Depends on how much fun you want to have. Nothing is better than geting the prop 4' off the water and landing smooth....ah the good ole days in Barnegat Inlet. I agree that swim platforms are a great thing. I have owned them on MANY boats. There is just a problem with them on pre 1993ish 16-17' hulls. If I was buying a new 170 and they offered it as an option or ??, SURE I would get one, ladders are a pain and dogs can't climb up them well.
Chuck Tribolet	posted 05-09-2008 08:21 PM ET (US) Adm. Linda can get back on my Montauk over the side without using any upper body strength. I need to get one of my UW video buddies to shoot some video of it. It's a bit creative. Chuck
Casco Bay Outrage	posted 05-13-2008 01:04 PM ET (US) With the engine off, I tilt the engine up a bit then step on the top of the anti-cavitation plate then put my other knee on the transom. Not hard at all.
sapple	posted 05-13-2008 09:27 PM ET (US) I think of a swim ladder as an option (like a anchor) that allows you to realize the full capabilities of the boat. It can also be a piece of safety equipment to allow someone to easily and safely get back on board if they end up in the water for whatever reason.
flyfisherman	posted 05-14-2008 11:13 AM ET (US) I've got the classic Montauk not the 170 so I'm a little hesitant to put one on that model from what I've read on here (actually...I'm scared to death (G) ). If I ever have a spare $600.00 or so and can afford to have it done right...then so be it. Right now it's a luxury that I can live without...at least our two daughters get out of college!
andygere	posted 05-14-2008 12:23 PM ET (US) Here's a tip for emergency board after a MOB incident: Have the swimmer get to the stern of the boat, and (with the outboard OFF) put both feet on the anti-cav plate and hug the mid section. Now tilt the motor up using the power tilt, and even an exhausted swimmer can be brought back aboard. I tried this one time at anchor just to see if it works and it does.
flyfisherman	posted 05-14-2008 04:06 PM ET (US) Great Idea...and a lot cheaper than $600.00 or so for a ladder properly installed. Do you have any idea how much weight can you safely put on that using the trim motor?
Tohsgib	posted 05-15-2008 12:03 PM ET (US) Engine will handle any weight you have for the most part. Would not make it a daily habit though as they can slip and cut themselves on the prop or weaken/bend the cav plate, etc.
Ridge Runner	posted 05-15-2008 02:01 PM ET (US) This type of ladder should not pull out: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26451& viewitem=&item=140231465683&_trksid=p3907.m29 You have the two upper supports thru-bolted, one of the lower supports lagged into the engine plywood, and the other into the side plywood. Just ruff up the gelcoat where the two lower supports are attached, coat the lag bolts with 3M's 5200, and coat the support bases with 5200.
Ridge Runner	posted 05-15-2008 02:04 PM ET (US) Also no bolts are below the waterline.
flyfisherman	posted 05-16-2008 07:34 AM ET (US) Thanks so much for that information. Do you think it would be safe on the classic Montauk? Guys on here have recounted some nightmares trying to put a platform on the older Montauk's. That's a little "pricier" than some other models I've seen but, if it's safe for the boat and will do the job, I'd rather spend a little more and have it done right. Thanks for your feedback.
Ridge Runner	posted 05-16-2008 11:06 AM ET (US) I have no affiliation with this ebay seller, but I have had two friends purchase this ladder for a 17 classic and helped them install it. This ladder is custom made for the 17 Montauk, and is very different than any commercial ladder that I have seen. Notice that this ladder mounts much higher on the transom then most, what this fabricator has done is mount a standard three step telescoping ladder on a custom made platform, fyi the telescoping ladder is the same that B/W uses on the Conquest. Because you mount the platform higher, all the mounting bolts are above the waterline, so no worrying about water intrusion into the lower mounting bolts, and it has four mounting points unlike most commercial units that have three, and each mounting points uses two bolts, so eight bolts hold this in place. The top two mounting points are thru-bolted, the right side is lagged into the engine mounting plywood, and the left side is going into the plywood that many people mount a trolling motor bracket through. Just make sure that your installer beds everything extremely well with 3M’s 5200.
flyfisherman	posted 05-16-2008 12:04 PM ET (US) That's great information Ridge Runner. If I do this, I think I'll print your comments off and take it with me to the dealer. I've been afraid of doing this but it may be that this is the answer. I know this much...if it can't be done properly then I'd be better off with an over-the-transom deal...but I'd rather have this. That way it's always with me. Thanks again for your insights.
Tohsgib	posted 05-16-2008 02:27 PM ET (US) Fly...if you REALLY want a swim ladder, then why not just get the type that the plate is mounted to the transom, then you insert the 3 -5 rung ladder into the slot? This is not the cheapest way to go but it is what all dive boats use. Should be REAL easy and SAFE to mount. You then would just hang the ladder from a rail when not in use. Then again it is easier and cheaper to get the windline folding SS ladder for $100 and keep it in the console or under front hatch.
Tohsgib	posted 05-16-2008 02:30 PM ET (US) Here http://www.garelick.com/prodcat.php?subid=AB02
Tohsgib	posted 05-16-2008 02:32 PM ET (US) Ps you can get that E-Bay ladder as well but those will hit the engine when turned hard unless modified severely.
Ridge Runner	posted 05-16-2008 02:57 PM ET (US) Tohsgib, I've installed two of these ladder's and didn't have a problem with the engine hitting the ladder in a hard turn. One was rigged with a Yamaha 90hp 2 cycle, the other with Mercury 115hp 2 cycle, both had about 3.0" - 3.5" inches of clearance. After mounting them properly, I can tell you there is no way they will rip out, just an fyi..
Tohsgib	posted 05-16-2008 11:15 PM ET (US) Good to know and very cool. I just want everyone to know what they might "encounter". Again Ilove swim pllatforms, just never found one that works...souds like a god alternative, etc.
Ridge Runner	posted 05-17-2008 08:32 AM ET (US) I do agree with you on the Garlick boarding ladder, the problem is where do you put the thing on a small boat so it stays out of the way? My quess is you need the 3 step ladder which is 38" long and 13" wide. I had the 4 step on a 25 footer and it was always in the way. If you can find a place to get it out of the way it does work very well, is high quality and a more cost effective approach.
Rich M	posted 05-17-2008 08:24 PM ET (US) I have the Garlick three step dive ladder on my 170 Montauk. It stores in two very strong clips on the rear port gunnel opposite the stern light. We do a lot of snorkeling and I like it better than a platform.
Tohsgib	posted 05-19-2008 01:19 PM ET (US) I bet you could store it on your side rails. This is #12 why I always recommend the Windline folding SS ladder for $99. Stores in front locker or in console.
Mumbo Jumbo	posted 05-20-2008 10:20 AM ET (US) A vote for the swim platform with ladder. Years back, while on painkillers, I went to the dock at night to check on my Outrage. When stepping from the boat back to the dock, I misjudged and fell into the water were a very strong current took me quickly to the stern. As I went by, I was able to grab the swim platform, flip down the ladder, and climb back into the boat. A ladder stowed in the boat would have been of absolutely no value in that circumstance. Situations involving a violent, steep chop also suggest the use of a strong fixed platform and ladder.
flyfisherman	posted 05-21-2008 06:01 PM ET (US) Mumbo Jumbo, Thanks for you input. All things considered, I'd rather have a permanent ladder mounted on the stern. Heck...I've fallen in a few times in a swift tide and I wasn't even on painkillers (only Bud Lite). Plus I worry about permanent storage for over-the-transom mounts as well. I got really spooked at the beginning of this thread but I'm thinking there might be some hope after all. Heck...I guess enough money and you can do anything. Problem is...I don't have the money!