Moisture Build Up with Flush Mounted Electronics

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Author Topic:   Moisture Build Up with Flush Mounted Electronics

alfred posted 05-06-2008 10:18 AM ET (US)
Is moisture build-up a [concern] if you flush mount electronics to the dashboard of a 190 Outrage?
bigjohn1 posted 05-08-2008 09:00 AM ET (US)
There are a couple of factors which will effect this none of which are inherent to the Outrage or any other boat for that matter. In no particular order they are:
1. Is everything sealed well on that console?
2. Do you use a strong stream of water pointed directly at things on the console during cleanup and wash down?
3. Is the boat stowed away in a musty garage or storage building after use?
4. Is the humidity level high where the boat is kept?
5. Is the outside of the console towel dried after wash down?
You see where I'm going with this....there are many factors which can affect this. In a very humid climate, one of the best ways to mitigate moisture in a small boat console is to place a small plug-in style blower fan inside the console and leave it on for the night after you wash down the boat. The next morning, your console interior will be dry as a bone.
Sal A posted 05-08-2008 09:12 AM ET (US)
My 190 Nantucket's console interior was always moist. I wiped it down, and I used those hanging moisture-absorbing bags.
Feejer posted 05-08-2008 10:24 AM ET (US)
I think you'll feel better in you can take your electronics with you at the end of the day. With that being said I had a Garmin 2010C plotter on my Sea Hunt. I went through three because of fogging [problems] with the screen. Currently on my Montauk I have a Garmin 498C which gets taken off the boat. I also have a Standard Horizon PS2000 VHF which has the guts mounted in the console. The mic gets unplugged and taken home.
alfred posted 05-09-2008 01:23 AM ET (US)
[Uunspecified device] will be outside, so I guess [fogging] will be a [concern]. Such a waste of dash space if I surface mount the electronics.
swist posted 05-09-2008 07:54 AM ET (US)
This is a fact of life in many locations - and it's not just real humid areas, like the Southeast - running or mooring in real cold water can cause lots of condensation. Most marine electronics promise to be somewhat resilient to this, but as others have said, it isn't necessarily so.
It also points out how the console wiring, which you can't remove from the boat every night, needs to be really first class to protect it from constant condensation.
Perry posted 05-09-2008 12:38 PM ET (US)
Like Sal, I also hang Damp-Rid moisture absorbers in the console of my 190. I have no problem with my flush mounted electronics now.
Feejer posted 05-09-2008 03:49 PM ET (US)
There is always this to consider: If you flush mount [electronic devices] and [electronic devices] crap out [you are] going to have a nice big hole in your console until you get [electronic devices] back. Worse yet, the unit dies three years down the road and you buy a new unit that does not fit the same [cut out in the console].
alfred posted 05-09-2008 09:19 PM ET (US)
I guess having a [console] cover over makes [the problem of condensation] worse in a wet winter.
alfred posted 05-09-2008 09:19 PM ET (US)
Perry our winters are similar, just at different times of the year.
jimh posted 05-09-2008 10:21 PM ET (US)
The ability of marine electronics to resist water intrusion would not seem to depend on how they are mounted. If anything, a flush mounted device might be more likely to resist water intrusion because only half of it is exposed to water, and the back half which usually has connector is protected from most water.
As far as water entering the interior of the console, if the flush mounted electronics are well sealed, they will not affect water entering the interior of console.
highanddry posted 05-10-2008 12:13 AM ET (US)
Do not understand your question.
I flush mounted my Humminbird side scanner and have [no problems related to moisture]. I modified the bracket such that I can reach into the console and disconnect the wire bundle (on a single plug) and then snap the unit from the bracket removing it for indoor storage. Is that what you want to do? Store the electronics indoors?
I have a foam seal around my Humminbird and it does not leak into the console. I mounted my radio flush with clear GE-III sealant. It can be removed for repair or replacement but I do not remove it--if it get's stolen, that is why I have insurance.
I love my stuff flush mounted on our Nantucket.
Perry posted 05-10-2008 01:43 AM ET (US)

quote:
The ability of marine electronics to resist water intrusion would not seem to depend on how they are mounted.
Jim, my flush mounted electronics (Navman3100 fuel in particular) would would get moisture in the display because the rear of the unit was always exposed to the damp air inside my console. The electronics not flush mounted like my VHF radio do not have moisture intrusion problems because they never get wet. The wind screen keeps spray from the ocean away and my T-Top keeps rain water off.
Now that I hang Damp-Rid moisture absorbers inside the console, I don't have a problem with moisture intrusion with my flush mount electronics. My gauges don't get fogged up anymore as well.
jimh posted 05-10-2008 09:04 AM ET (US)
What is the path for the water that enters the inside of the console of the Boston Whaler 190 OUTRAGE? I don't understand how all that moisture gets inside the console in the first place.
alfred posted 05-10-2008 10:03 AM ET (US)
I am hoping to permenantly mount flush mount the electronics, but read some post here about the inside of the console being damp, leading to condensation in the electronic instruments so I am just trying to establish how bad the situation is and if there was a fix.
Sal and Perry thanks for the tip on moisture absorbers.
highanddry posted 05-10-2008 05:01 PM ET (US)
The Boston Whaler Outrage 190 console has a gap at the bottom--look on the back edge-- that will allow water to egress and ingress to the interior. It is not a problem, I have no moisture in my electronics or instruments.
dfmcintyre posted 05-11-2008 06:05 AM ET (US)
Alfred -
One reason for moisture buildup when flush mounting electronics may be as follows:
Buildup of water in the plywood between the outside and inside gelcoats of the panel itself. Current mounting techniques employed by the factory, dealer or owner allow this to happen. This can allow the plywood to absorb moisture. It's happened to a frequent poster on the forum.
The solution is after drilling the hole for the device (or for that matter the engine instruments, throttle mount, compass, etc.) is to apply a coat or two of epoxy to the exposed wood, let dry and mount.
I think that the moisture resistance of the current electronic selection is greater then the typical engine instrumentation.
Regards - Don
alfred posted 05-11-2008 07:45 AM ET (US)
Hey Don thanks for that, I will make sure I seal all edges before I put everything together. I wonder if the factory does that for it's cutouts?
bkloss posted 05-11-2008 10:06 AM ET (US)
I have the outrage 210 and all my electronics are flushmounted and I never have an issue with moisture in the console. I made sure that there is a tight water seal so nothing gets in. I absolutely have no water coming in from the bottom.
As was already stated; wiring connections have to be water and air tight otherwise there will be issues.
Some things you can't avoid. Just yesterday while taking a cruise, my speedometer wasn't registering anything. I went into the console and unplugged and re-plugged the speedo connector into the junction box and it came back to life.
I store my boat on a trailer with a cover but I am more concerned about the sun and heat damage than moisture in my neck of the woods.
Brian
glen e posted 05-11-2008 05:47 PM ET (US)
an interesting conversation a few years ago with a garmin tech (not CR) - flush mounting has to be done correctly. Their research shows some owners torque the unit down not keeping each corner the same so it "twists" the frame...My 2010C developed condensation and with the 3210 I replaced it with, I just put mounted it with a bead of silicone and no bolts...no problems...
highanddry posted 05-11-2008 05:58 PM ET (US)
If you use a foam gasket then there should not be a problem with over torqueing of the case. Simply draw it down to evenly compress the foam gasket. Some units come with a foam gasket for the purpose or make your own. The foam also provides some shock/vibration protection.
glen e posted 05-11-2008 06:57 PM ET (US)
a bead of silicone does this even better as it takes all the possibiitly of over torquing...an xcato blade pops it off any time you want....
dfmcintyre posted 05-11-2008 08:03 PM ET (US)
Alfred -
I'm out on a limb here, but I'd bet that the factory does not seal each cutout.
I'm basing that assumption on my friends boat not having that done.
Regards - Don
alfred posted 05-12-2008 12:14 AM ET (US)
Have to agree with Glen about the silicon. Use to have many dramas with a GPS flush mount unit at one time, the ratchet system kept vibrating loose and I finally siliconed it in and no issues after that. That is how my VHF is now mounted on my 18 at the moment.
Okay Don will check when I can.
swist posted 05-14-2008 10:14 AM ET (US)
You cannot seal a console completely against moisture because you cannot seal it from air intrusion, and humid (and even not-so-humid) air will condense on the inside. Boating in cold water makes it even worse, particularly overnight, when the cold temperature raises the relative humidity inside the console to 100% pretty easily. Opening the door once the day gets warmer will help somewhat to dry it out.
I tried those moisture-removing bags and found that they became saturated so fast in this climate (Maine) that I would have to replace them constantly.

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Author	Topic: Moisture Build Up with Flush Mounted Electronics
alfred	posted 05-06-2008 10:18 AM ET (US) Is moisture build-up a [concern] if you flush mount electronics to the dashboard of a 190 Outrage?
bigjohn1	posted 05-08-2008 09:00 AM ET (US) There are a couple of factors which will effect this none of which are inherent to the Outrage or any other boat for that matter. In no particular order they are: 1. Is everything sealed well on that console? 2. Do you use a strong stream of water pointed directly at things on the console during cleanup and wash down? 3. Is the boat stowed away in a musty garage or storage building after use? 4. Is the humidity level high where the boat is kept? 5. Is the outside of the console towel dried after wash down? You see where I'm going with this....there are many factors which can affect this. In a very humid climate, one of the best ways to mitigate moisture in a small boat console is to place a small plug-in style blower fan inside the console and leave it on for the night after you wash down the boat. The next morning, your console interior will be dry as a bone.
Sal A	posted 05-08-2008 09:12 AM ET (US) My 190 Nantucket's console interior was always moist. I wiped it down, and I used those hanging moisture-absorbing bags.
Feejer	posted 05-08-2008 10:24 AM ET (US) I think you'll feel better in you can take your electronics with you at the end of the day. With that being said I had a Garmin 2010C plotter on my Sea Hunt. I went through three because of fogging [problems] with the screen. Currently on my Montauk I have a Garmin 498C which gets taken off the boat. I also have a Standard Horizon PS2000 VHF which has the guts mounted in the console. The mic gets unplugged and taken home.
alfred	posted 05-09-2008 01:23 AM ET (US) [Uunspecified device] will be outside, so I guess [fogging] will be a [concern]. Such a waste of dash space if I surface mount the electronics.
swist	posted 05-09-2008 07:54 AM ET (US) This is a fact of life in many locations - and it's not just real humid areas, like the Southeast - running or mooring in real cold water can cause lots of condensation. Most marine electronics promise to be somewhat resilient to this, but as others have said, it isn't necessarily so. It also points out how the console wiring, which you can't remove from the boat every night, needs to be really first class to protect it from constant condensation.
Perry	posted 05-09-2008 12:38 PM ET (US) Like Sal, I also hang Damp-Rid moisture absorbers in the console of my 190. I have no problem with my flush mounted electronics now.
Feejer	posted 05-09-2008 03:49 PM ET (US) There is always this to consider: If you flush mount [electronic devices] and [electronic devices] crap out [you are] going to have a nice big hole in your console until you get [electronic devices] back. Worse yet, the unit dies three years down the road and you buy a new unit that does not fit the same [cut out in the console].
alfred	posted 05-09-2008 09:19 PM ET (US) I guess having a [console] cover over makes [the problem of condensation] worse in a wet winter.
alfred	posted 05-09-2008 09:19 PM ET (US) Perry our winters are similar, just at different times of the year.
jimh	posted 05-09-2008 10:21 PM ET (US) The ability of marine electronics to resist water intrusion would not seem to depend on how they are mounted. If anything, a flush mounted device might be more likely to resist water intrusion because only half of it is exposed to water, and the back half which usually has connector is protected from most water. As far as water entering the interior of the console, if the flush mounted electronics are well sealed, they will not affect water entering the interior of console.
highanddry	posted 05-10-2008 12:13 AM ET (US) Do not understand your question. I flush mounted my Humminbird side scanner and have [no problems related to moisture]. I modified the bracket such that I can reach into the console and disconnect the wire bundle (on a single plug) and then snap the unit from the bracket removing it for indoor storage. Is that what you want to do? Store the electronics indoors? I have a foam seal around my Humminbird and it does not leak into the console. I mounted my radio flush with clear GE-III sealant. It can be removed for repair or replacement but I do not remove it--if it get's stolen, that is why I have insurance. I love my stuff flush mounted on our Nantucket.
Perry	posted 05-10-2008 01:43 AM ET (US) quote: The ability of marine electronics to resist water intrusion would not seem to depend on how they are mounted. Jim, my flush mounted electronics (Navman3100 fuel in particular) would would get moisture in the display because the rear of the unit was always exposed to the damp air inside my console. The electronics not flush mounted like my VHF radio do not have moisture intrusion problems because they never get wet. The wind screen keeps spray from the ocean away and my T-Top keeps rain water off. Now that I hang Damp-Rid moisture absorbers inside the console, I don't have a problem with moisture intrusion with my flush mount electronics. My gauges don't get fogged up anymore as well.
jimh	posted 05-10-2008 09:04 AM ET (US) What is the path for the water that enters the inside of the console of the Boston Whaler 190 OUTRAGE? I don't understand how all that moisture gets inside the console in the first place.
alfred	posted 05-10-2008 10:03 AM ET (US) I am hoping to permenantly mount flush mount the electronics, but read some post here about the inside of the console being damp, leading to condensation in the electronic instruments so I am just trying to establish how bad the situation is and if there was a fix. Sal and Perry thanks for the tip on moisture absorbers.
highanddry	posted 05-10-2008 05:01 PM ET (US) The Boston Whaler Outrage 190 console has a gap at the bottom--look on the back edge-- that will allow water to egress and ingress to the interior. It is not a problem, I have no moisture in my electronics or instruments.
dfmcintyre	posted 05-11-2008 06:05 AM ET (US) Alfred - One reason for moisture buildup when flush mounting electronics may be as follows: Buildup of water in the plywood between the outside and inside gelcoats of the panel itself. Current mounting techniques employed by the factory, dealer or owner allow this to happen. This can allow the plywood to absorb moisture. It's happened to a frequent poster on the forum. The solution is after drilling the hole for the device (or for that matter the engine instruments, throttle mount, compass, etc.) is to apply a coat or two of epoxy to the exposed wood, let dry and mount. I think that the moisture resistance of the current electronic selection is greater then the typical engine instrumentation. Regards - Don
alfred	posted 05-11-2008 07:45 AM ET (US) Hey Don thanks for that, I will make sure I seal all edges before I put everything together. I wonder if the factory does that for it's cutouts?
bkloss	posted 05-11-2008 10:06 AM ET (US) I have the outrage 210 and all my electronics are flushmounted and I never have an issue with moisture in the console. I made sure that there is a tight water seal so nothing gets in. I absolutely have no water coming in from the bottom. As was already stated; wiring connections have to be water and air tight otherwise there will be issues. Some things you can't avoid. Just yesterday while taking a cruise, my speedometer wasn't registering anything. I went into the console and unplugged and re-plugged the speedo connector into the junction box and it came back to life. I store my boat on a trailer with a cover but I am more concerned about the sun and heat damage than moisture in my neck of the woods. Brian
glen e	posted 05-11-2008 05:47 PM ET (US) an interesting conversation a few years ago with a garmin tech (not CR) - flush mounting has to be done correctly. Their research shows some owners torque the unit down not keeping each corner the same so it "twists" the frame...My 2010C developed condensation and with the 3210 I replaced it with, I just put mounted it with a bead of silicone and no bolts...no problems...
highanddry	posted 05-11-2008 05:58 PM ET (US) If you use a foam gasket then there should not be a problem with over torqueing of the case. Simply draw it down to evenly compress the foam gasket. Some units come with a foam gasket for the purpose or make your own. The foam also provides some shock/vibration protection.
glen e	posted 05-11-2008 06:57 PM ET (US) a bead of silicone does this even better as it takes all the possibiitly of over torquing...an xcato blade pops it off any time you want....
dfmcintyre	posted 05-11-2008 08:03 PM ET (US) Alfred - I'm out on a limb here, but I'd bet that the factory does not seal each cutout. I'm basing that assumption on my friends boat not having that done. Regards - Don
alfred	posted 05-12-2008 12:14 AM ET (US) Have to agree with Glen about the silicon. Use to have many dramas with a GPS flush mount unit at one time, the ratchet system kept vibrating loose and I finally siliconed it in and no issues after that. That is how my VHF is now mounted on my 18 at the moment. Okay Don will check when I can.
swist	posted 05-14-2008 10:14 AM ET (US) You cannot seal a console completely against moisture because you cannot seal it from air intrusion, and humid (and even not-so-humid) air will condense on the inside. Boating in cold water makes it even worse, particularly overnight, when the cold temperature raises the relative humidity inside the console to 100% pretty easily. Opening the door once the day gets warmer will help somewhat to dry it out. I tried those moisture-removing bags and found that they became saturated so fast in this climate (Maine) that I would have to replace them constantly.