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Author Topic:   Trailer Size

Bill the Novice posted 07-07-2008 07:26 AM ET (US)
I purchased an Outrage 24 that was on a solid 30-foot TechSun trailer. I totaled the trailer. In buying a new one, is there really advantage to having an oversize trailer other than my truck wheels never have to get wet? One HUGE disadvantage was parking. One thing the trailer did that I never liked was sorta buck up and down the trailer-hitch - it is nervewracking and I can't help but think it may have had something to do with my hydroplaning the other day (bad wreck with bad damage to truck and boat). Any advice is welcome. Thank you.
fishgutz posted 07-07-2008 10:09 AM ET (US)
Often "bucking" occurs when the tow vehicle and trailer aren't level or in a straight line when looking from the side. If the tongue is low or too high when you accelerate the hitch has a tendency to move up or down first befor actually moving forward. This takes a nanosecond but you feel it as bucking. If everything is in line no up or down action will happen.
Does this make sense? Kind of like if you pulled your boat with a rope. You'd have to take the sag out of the rope first before moving. Only with a rigid vehicle and trailer the hitch area just moves up and down.
This can be remedied by having a hitch with either a drop or a rise in it. Basically raising or lowering the ball. If you have a "Trailering Guide" which is included with all new trailers, it will explain it there.
Also try this:
http://www.sherline.com/lmbook.htm
In the part about The Tow Vehicle.
I think if your trailer is too long this will be accentuated.
Casco Bay Outrage posted 07-07-2008 12:17 PM ET (US)
Bill -
If the length over all (LOA) of the destroyed trailer was 30', it does not appear to be too large/long.
Assuming the model Outrage you state is 24', the winch post takes up 1'. And then the forward section where the hitch is. If an I-beam trailer, they tend to have a bit longer length to get to hitch since they are bent I beams
Fishgutz is right, the setup on the boat/trailer was not right.
With a 24' boat, you are talking a long trailer and parking will be a challenge.
Keeping your rig out of the water is a very good thing.
Concerning a new trailer, tell us where you are (geographically) and we can give you recommendations.
Regardless of what trailer you get, when hooked up, the tongue weight should be 8-10% of the total weight and the frame of the trailer should be level. Setup is key.

Jerry Townsend posted 07-07-2008 12:59 PM ET (US)
The connection between the tow vehicle and the trailer is rigid and therefore, a slight angle from level is not going to make all that much difference.
Frankly, the big problem in this case was the hydroplaning - which is dependent to the depth of water on the road, the depth of the tread on the tires, the weight of the tow vehicle, the weight of the total trailer - and the speed. And the hydroplaning problems are compounded on roads with a lot of traffic.
In short - a vehicle with nearly bald tires in a heavy rain storm or traversing a dip with a lot of water - and traveling at a high speed - will hydroplane.
Bill - in setting up a trailer - there is a lot of information in the reference section to help you.
Bill the Novice posted 07-07-2008 07:45 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the advice guys. The boat/trailer bucked when travelling at full speed (whatever the speed limit was) after hitting a dip or something. It set a "rhythm," if you will. I'd coast (deaccelerate without brakes) and it would stop. The point on the hydroplaning is well taken - I think (I"m not sure) that it began with a brake or acceleration - so new tires will be on the truck (assuming it is not totaled). I'm in the Houston area (specifically Conroe) and I typically launch from anywhere between Galveston and Freeport. I liked the TechSun trailer - more expensive than McClain, but it looks "heavier." I'm happy to report several things about the whaler - 1) no stress cracks anywhere 2) the boat looks like it slid off the trailer (forward?)and tipped/rolled over and the factory t-top stopped the roll. The T-top bent, and cracked the console in the front - but nothing at the floor. Motor - absolutely no damage - so it's worth fixing. Wow - what a boat. Mostly just a bit of "grinding" on the gelcoat on the chimes. The front hull eyebolt was bent by the wrecker, but no stress cracks in the area. Any advise on other manufactorers of trailers are welcome. Thanks for the WONDERFUL advise. It's well taken. Bill
Jerry Townsend posted 07-08-2008 01:30 AM ET (US)
Bill - the "bucking" (or bouncing) was the boat/trailer bouncing at the natural frequency of that "system". And the road conditions can contribute - for example - approaching a stop light/sign with a lot of heavy traffic on that road. Eventually, a "wash-boarding" type of road will develope - which is caused by the natural frequency of the vehicles suspension systems (typically around 15 cps) and the typical speed approaching that stop.
Decreasing/increasing the tire pressure will change that frequency. Decreasing the tire pressure will decrease the frequency - while increasing will increase the frequency. Shock absorbers will also dampen the oscillations out - but shocks on a boat trailer are not common.
Very glad that your whaler basically survived - and not totalled. ----- Jerry/Idaho
tmann45 posted 07-08-2008 07:11 AM ET (US)
Sounds like you did not have enough weight on the tongue (bucking problem).
Jerry Townsend posted 07-09-2008 01:12 PM ET (US)
Bill - another point - and that is the road conditions could have caused the problem. That is - in road-ways where, for example, heavy trucks (18 wheelers, et al.) use the right hand lane, it is common for that lane to deteriorate, become rough, and take on the natural frequency spacing of the those trucks - a natural frequency of 15 - 20 cps with a vehicle moving at 75 mph. In those cases, change lanes and see if that makes a difference. -- Jerry/Idaho
jimh posted 07-09-2008 09:17 PM ET (US)
Bill--Your fundamental premise is flawed. The truck tires do not have to get wet when launching a boat, even when the trailer is not especially or intentionally made longer than necessary.
deepwater posted 07-10-2008 09:36 AM ET (US)
not knowing how big the truck is ,,the springs and or shocks could be weak (bumper hitch?) or the boat is not setting on the trailer properly,,the size of the trailer leads me to believe its a duel axle so the boat is either too far back lifting the rear of the truck or too far forward lifting the steering wheels of the truck ,,and like you said a dip in the road started you looking like an inch worm ,,everyone above gives good advice but more info is needed

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Author	Topic: Trailer Size
Bill the Novice	posted 07-07-2008 07:26 AM ET (US) I purchased an Outrage 24 that was on a solid 30-foot TechSun trailer. I totaled the trailer. In buying a new one, is there really advantage to having an oversize trailer other than my truck wheels never have to get wet? One HUGE disadvantage was parking. One thing the trailer did that I never liked was sorta buck up and down the trailer-hitch - it is nervewracking and I can't help but think it may have had something to do with my hydroplaning the other day (bad wreck with bad damage to truck and boat). Any advice is welcome. Thank you.
fishgutz	posted 07-07-2008 10:09 AM ET (US) Often "bucking" occurs when the tow vehicle and trailer aren't level or in a straight line when looking from the side. If the tongue is low or too high when you accelerate the hitch has a tendency to move up or down first befor actually moving forward. This takes a nanosecond but you feel it as bucking. If everything is in line no up or down action will happen. Does this make sense? Kind of like if you pulled your boat with a rope. You'd have to take the sag out of the rope first before moving. Only with a rigid vehicle and trailer the hitch area just moves up and down. This can be remedied by having a hitch with either a drop or a rise in it. Basically raising or lowering the ball. If you have a "Trailering Guide" which is included with all new trailers, it will explain it there. Also try this: http://www.sherline.com/lmbook.htm In the part about The Tow Vehicle. I think if your trailer is too long this will be accentuated.
Casco Bay Outrage	posted 07-07-2008 12:17 PM ET (US) Bill - If the length over all (LOA) of the destroyed trailer was 30', it does not appear to be too large/long. Assuming the model Outrage you state is 24', the winch post takes up 1'. And then the forward section where the hitch is. If an I-beam trailer, they tend to have a bit longer length to get to hitch since they are bent I beams Fishgutz is right, the setup on the boat/trailer was not right. With a 24' boat, you are talking a long trailer and parking will be a challenge. Keeping your rig out of the water is a very good thing. Concerning a new trailer, tell us where you are (geographically) and we can give you recommendations. Regardless of what trailer you get, when hooked up, the tongue weight should be 8-10% of the total weight and the frame of the trailer should be level. Setup is key.
Jerry Townsend	posted 07-07-2008 12:59 PM ET (US) The connection between the tow vehicle and the trailer is rigid and therefore, a slight angle from level is not going to make all that much difference. Frankly, the big problem in this case was the hydroplaning - which is dependent to the depth of water on the road, the depth of the tread on the tires, the weight of the tow vehicle, the weight of the total trailer - and the speed. And the hydroplaning problems are compounded on roads with a lot of traffic. In short - a vehicle with nearly bald tires in a heavy rain storm or traversing a dip with a lot of water - and traveling at a high speed - will hydroplane. Bill - in setting up a trailer - there is a lot of information in the reference section to help you.
Bill the Novice	posted 07-07-2008 07:45 PM ET (US) Thanks for the advice guys. The boat/trailer bucked when travelling at full speed (whatever the speed limit was) after hitting a dip or something. It set a "rhythm," if you will. I'd coast (deaccelerate without brakes) and it would stop. The point on the hydroplaning is well taken - I think (I"m not sure) that it began with a brake or acceleration - so new tires will be on the truck (assuming it is not totaled). I'm in the Houston area (specifically Conroe) and I typically launch from anywhere between Galveston and Freeport. I liked the TechSun trailer - more expensive than McClain, but it looks "heavier." I'm happy to report several things about the whaler - 1) no stress cracks anywhere 2) the boat looks like it slid off the trailer (forward?)and tipped/rolled over and the factory t-top stopped the roll. The T-top bent, and cracked the console in the front - but nothing at the floor. Motor - absolutely no damage - so it's worth fixing. Wow - what a boat. Mostly just a bit of "grinding" on the gelcoat on the chimes. The front hull eyebolt was bent by the wrecker, but no stress cracks in the area. Any advise on other manufactorers of trailers are welcome. Thanks for the WONDERFUL advise. It's well taken. Bill
Jerry Townsend	posted 07-08-2008 01:30 AM ET (US) Bill - the "bucking" (or bouncing) was the boat/trailer bouncing at the natural frequency of that "system". And the road conditions can contribute - for example - approaching a stop light/sign with a lot of heavy traffic on that road. Eventually, a "wash-boarding" type of road will develope - which is caused by the natural frequency of the vehicles suspension systems (typically around 15 cps) and the typical speed approaching that stop. Decreasing/increasing the tire pressure will change that frequency. Decreasing the tire pressure will decrease the frequency - while increasing will increase the frequency. Shock absorbers will also dampen the oscillations out - but shocks on a boat trailer are not common. Very glad that your whaler basically survived - and not totalled. ----- Jerry/Idaho
tmann45	posted 07-08-2008 07:11 AM ET (US) Sounds like you did not have enough weight on the tongue (bucking problem).
Jerry Townsend	posted 07-09-2008 01:12 PM ET (US) Bill - another point - and that is the road conditions could have caused the problem. That is - in road-ways where, for example, heavy trucks (18 wheelers, et al.) use the right hand lane, it is common for that lane to deteriorate, become rough, and take on the natural frequency spacing of the those trucks - a natural frequency of 15 - 20 cps with a vehicle moving at 75 mph. In those cases, change lanes and see if that makes a difference. -- Jerry/Idaho
jimh	posted 07-09-2008 09:17 PM ET (US) Bill--Your fundamental premise is flawed. The truck tires do not have to get wet when launching a boat, even when the trailer is not especially or intentionally made longer than necessary.
deepwater	posted 07-10-2008 09:36 AM ET (US) not knowing how big the truck is ,,the springs and or shocks could be weak (bumper hitch?) or the boat is not setting on the trailer properly,,the size of the trailer leads me to believe its a duel axle so the boat is either too far back lifting the rear of the truck or too far forward lifting the steering wheels of the truck ,,and like you said a dip in the road started you looking like an inch worm ,,everyone above gives good advice but more info is needed