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Author Topic:   Tongue weight of 190 Outrage on factory trailer?
alfred posted 08-11-2008 09:56 AM ET (US)   Profile for alfred   Send Email to alfred  
Does anyone know what the tongue weight of the 190 Outrage on a factory trailer is?
bluewaterpirate posted 08-11-2008 10:07 AM ET (US)     Profile for bluewaterpirate  Send Email to bluewaterpirate     
If the factory set it up properly it should be 6 - 8 % of the total weight of the trailer and boat.


alfred posted 08-11-2008 10:26 AM ET (US)     Profile for alfred  Send Email to alfred     
I understand the formula, but am hoping to get the actual numbers. Is it safe to take it that all the trailers would have been setup properly?
bluewaterpirate posted 08-11-2008 11:32 AM ET (US)     Profile for bluewaterpirate  Send Email to bluewaterpirate     
It's easy enough to have it checked by you dealer. I know my purchasing dealer actually put the scales on mine and raised the tongue with a fork lift to verify the weight was correct. The dealer here buys all his Whaler's without trailers and then gives the owner the option to choose a trailer from one of three manufactuers.


AtoZ posted 08-11-2008 01:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for AtoZ  Send Email to AtoZ     
You can set the tongue on a bathroom scale to check. No, I wouldn't count on all the trailers being set up the same. You may have a different configuration of batteries and location plus any of your personal gear.
Chuck Tribolet posted 08-11-2008 08:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
And gas quantity.


alfred posted 08-12-2008 05:00 AM ET (US)     Profile for alfred  Send Email to alfred     
Right, or should it be Wrong?

Just did the bath scale test and it nearly blew out the scales! Scales goes up to 290lbs and with the tongue on, it went completely round and well past! So I know that the tongue weight is more then 300lbs at a minimum. Suspected it was heavy when the shippers called yesterday and asked if I had a really big tow vehicle!!

Hitched the trailer on and the back of the car went way down, but didn't bottom out, so I towed her home real slow with no drama, but something has to be done.

I guess the first option would be to weigh her and then move the axle forward till the 5-10% mark is achieved, but my question is

"Could it already be right and could it really weigh that much?"

I did the test after taking everything off the boat and with the fuel tanks completely filled.

Looking at the hull on the trailer, I noticed that the bunks come past the transom by about 4-5 inches, so I should be able to move the winch post back by 4-5 inches, so that there none of the bunk sticking out to hit the transducer or anything.

What do you guys suggest?

alfred posted 08-12-2008 05:48 AM ET (US)     Profile for alfred  Send Email to alfred     
Hmmm... Just did the rough calculation and looks like it might be right! The whole set up will weigh in the ball park of 3500lbs.
erik selis posted 08-12-2008 06:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for erik selis  Send Email to erik selis     
Good thing you checked the weight for yourself Alfred. I trusted the company that sold me the trailer for my 170 Montauk without checking for myself. They told me the tongue weight was 154 lbs, as specified by the car manufacturer (at the time). In fact the real tongue weight was 300 lbs. Lucky for me I had reinforced shock absorbers under the car. The bad thing is that I didn't realize how much weight was there. This definitely caused premature wear on the bearings of my car. An expensive part to replace.
I now own a different tow vehicle and had everything adjusted to specifications while I watched and checked.


bluewaterpirate posted 08-12-2008 08:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for bluewaterpirate  Send Email to bluewaterpirate     
The top your boat/trailer (assuming you have a tandum axle) could weight is 4500 - 4600 lbs. I made some assumptions in reagards to the these figures:

Outrage 190 2050 lbs
Verado 150 510 lbs
Gas 60 gals 405 lbs
Misc wieght 400 lbs
Trailer 2 ax 1200 lbs

total weight 4565 lbs

4565 x 7 % = 319.55 lbs

Your tongue weight would appear to be correct. To find out the real weight of your boat fully loaded take it to a trauck stop and weight it on their scales.


alfred posted 08-12-2008 09:04 AM ET (US)     Profile for alfred  Send Email to alfred     
The trailer I have is a standard single axle Boston Whaler Karavan trailer with disc brakes. Think it is 655lbs, so that make it

Outrage 190 2050 lbs
Verado 150 530 lbs (vs the 510 you posted)
Gas 60 gals 405 lbs
Misc weight 400 lbs
Trailer 655 lbs
Spar wheel 70lbs?

total weight 4110 lbs

4110x7% = 287.7 lbs

At the moment it is going way past the 290 lb mark, so I might have a little play to try to lighten it and see if it is still behaving on the road.

Should I move the axle forward or move the winch post back?

Think I will try the moving the post first as it is easier.

bluewaterpirate posted 08-12-2008 09:28 AM ET (US)     Profile for bluewaterpirate  Send Email to bluewaterpirate     
Move the axle forward.
jimh posted 08-12-2008 09:43 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
To help calculate the distance needed use the method shown in the REFERENCE section: trailerCalculations.html

highanddry posted 08-12-2008 10:35 AM ET (US)     Profile for highanddry  Send Email to highanddry     
Our OR190 sits with the transon about 1/2 inch forward of the end of the bunks.

The tongue is fairly heavy and it will squat the Liberty down but the Tacoma only settles slightly. It is a heavy boat for it's size.

alfred posted 08-12-2008 10:48 AM ET (US)     Profile for alfred  Send Email to alfred     
I measured and mine sits 4.5 inches in front of the bunk's end! Will try to move the boat back first, to where it is level with the bunk and take it from there.
Jerry Townsend posted 08-12-2008 01:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jerry Townsend  Send Email to Jerry Townsend     
Alfred - careful - as you haven't mentioned the length of your bunks - that is, the placement of the transom relative to the back of the bunks is not necessarily a good measure. That said - having your transom supported by the bunks is good because a lot of the weight is on the transom.

The important thing is to have the center-of-gravity of the boat and normal contents - IN FRONT of your axle - in front by somewhere between 6 and 12 inches. You DON'T !!! want the C/G to be behind the axle - so don't move your boat rearward just based on the position of the transom relative to the bunks. In general, you don't know where the C/G of your outfit is - but typically, it will be a bit in back of the helm.

A bathroom scale is typically not all that accurate - but when you say it went "off-scale" - you don't know how much off-scale. Consider using the reference Jimh made - which includes a technique to use a bathroom scale with a heavy load.

Should your area have farming / trucking / construction / truck weigh stations - operations - they all have accurate and calibrated scales. Those in our area will weigh your outfit for "pennys". ------ Jerry/Idaho

shipskip posted 08-12-2008 03:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for shipskip  Send Email to shipskip     
I am hardly a trailer expert. That being said, am I missing something here, Jerry? Alfred says he has a single axle trailer. He has about 4-5" bunk exposed beyond the transom. Your comment about not moving the boat back past the ends of the bunks seems like good advice. But isn't the center of gravity for purposes of this discussion forward of the axle by definition since there is postive tongue weight? Alfred will know for sure that the center of gravity has shifted aft too far (beyond the axle) if and when when the tongue end flies up in the air! I say move the boat and the winch post aft a bit to lighten the tongue load a little, as per Highanddry. The rest of the scenario can be slightly altered by moving stored items around in the boat.


highanddry posted 08-12-2008 03:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for highanddry  Send Email to highanddry     
Here is the deal, don't do anything just yet, go launch your boat and then when you put it back on the trailer I bet it works out correctly with the transom at the end or just about 1/2 inch forward of the bunk ends. The boat has slid foreward in transit.

After an aggresive braking manuver one day I found our boat had moved forward about that much on the trailer. I think it just got bumped and jostled.

alfred posted 08-12-2008 06:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for alfred  Send Email to alfred     
Will try to splash the boat before the weekend and advise.
Jerry Townsend posted 08-12-2008 08:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jerry Townsend  Send Email to Jerry Townsend     
Skipjack / Craig -- I hesitate to respond - but re-read my response - one does not want to move the boat JUST based on putting the transom over the end of the bunks - move the boat based on getting the desired weight on the tongue - but DO NOT have the boat C/G in back of the axle. Alfred has 4 - 5 inches of bunk projecting beyond the transom - and there is really nothing wrong with that - if the tongue weight is proper - the transom is supported.

highanddry - I'm tempted to take your bet - the farm (if I only had one) - or something like that.

All trailer/boat set-ups are not necessarily the same - because of trailer lengths, axle location, et al.

Now, typically one only has to move the boat a fraction of an inch or, at most, a few inches. If I were doing it - I would use a come-a-long hooked between a tree or other stationary object and the transom lifting eyes, with the tongue on a stand (not hooked up to the tow vehicle) and with someone who can put some weight on the tongue should the boat be moved too far rearward. But some might try to use their tow, or other, vehicle as the means to move the boat rearward.

And a little secret - one can rig a tight cable/chain/non-nylon-rope between the boat and a stationary object - and pulling side-ways on the cable/chain puts a very signifcant force on the boat (in this case).

And when the hitch load is right - move the winch post into tight contact with the boat.

The ONLY point - be careful - don't move the boat too far back - particularily to where the boat C/G is rear of the axle and the lower unit of the engine bangs into the pavement or concrete driveway.

alfred posted 08-12-2008 08:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for alfred  Send Email to alfred     
It's quite clear that the CG is infront of the axle at the moment. The axle is currently set behind the fuel tank. I suspect a slight shift of the boat back will ease up on the tongue weight. I am going to get another scale and see what the weight really is.
shipskip posted 08-12-2008 09:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for shipskip  Send Email to shipskip     
Jerry, your response is well written and well received. No issues on this end. My tongue is hangin'. Thanks.
highanddry posted 08-12-2008 11:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for highanddry  Send Email to highanddry     
This the factory trailer. Boston Whaler did not purposely set that one and only Outrage 190 55 inches ofrward of all the other Outrage 190s on the same trailer. The bunks on this trailer are quite long since they support the hull and there are no keel rollers to help out. The transom on every Outrage 190 I have seen on the factory trailer is set about flush to the end of the bunks or slightly forward. You want the transom over the bunks to help support the boats weight on that very strong transom structure.

The bottom of the Outrage 190 is not flat, it has a rocker by design and this allows it to slip further forward on the trailer if you let the stern rock down, the bow can scoot further forward.

Your trailer could probably use a little fine tuning, the winch post to begin with, not the axle.

alfred posted 08-13-2008 08:22 AM ET (US)     Profile for alfred  Send Email to alfred     
I agree and I will attempt the winch post first after doing a test launch and recovery to see how it settles. Won't happen till next week though as I want to install all the bits first. I am going to try not to rush this one. I want to take my time and do it right!
bluewaterpirate posted 08-13-2008 10:19 AM ET (US)     Profile for bluewaterpirate  Send Email to bluewaterpirate     
Sorry .... I didn't read the orignal post in depth. The first thing I would do is check the winch post to see if it was tighened correctly to the tongue (i.e. the post moved forward in transit from the weight of the boat pushing on it). If not, moving the post back so the transom is located at the end of the bunks should fix your tongue weight issue.


Chuck Tribolet posted 08-13-2008 10:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
You can calculate where the CG is as follows:



CG is the distance from the axle to the CG.
D is the distance from the axle to the tongue.
TW is the tongue weight.
W is the weight of the systems (boat, motor, trailer, gas, etc).


Riverwhaler posted 08-15-2008 11:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for Riverwhaler  Send Email to Riverwhaler     
My Nantucket needed some moving to get it riding right on the single axle trailer. It was best when the transom was flush with the end of the bunks. The bunks support the boat on very flat areas of the bottom of the boat. I do not recommend trying to drag the boat on the trailer. Just reload it until the the end is flush and it should be ok. This boat really needs a tandem setup at the single axle is just barely able to carry all that weight. Add it all up everything including the trailer and check the load rating of the tires.
I sold the trailer and bought a Venture aluminum tandem and really feel much safer. It tows easier and launches easier as the boat sits lower.
JoeyP posted 08-16-2008 11:42 AM ET (US)     Profile for JoeyP  Send Email to JoeyP     
I just put my 190 back on the trailer the other day hitched to a 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee. It was definetly a load on the Jeep as it squatted. I found the transom of the boat about 6" forward of the end of the bunk. I plan on moving the winch post so that the transom is flush with the bunks. Looking at the whole set up, it was very obvious that the boat was too far forward therefore causing excessive weight on the tongue.
Jerry Townsend posted 08-18-2008 01:32 AM ET (US)     Profile for Jerry Townsend  Send Email to Jerry Townsend     
JoeyP - be careful - 6" is a LOT! and you have what? at least 2500 lbs.----- Jerry/Idaho
JoeyP posted 08-22-2008 11:05 AM ET (US)     Profile for JoeyP  Send Email to JoeyP     
Thanks Jerry, I will try it two inches at a time to see wher it sits best.
JoeyP posted 09-06-2008 10:49 AM ET (US)     Profile for JoeyP  Send Email to JoeyP     
Just an update. I moved the winch post about 2" up. Noticed a big difference in how the tongue sat on my Grand Cherokee. It also handled much better on the road. So the boat was definetly too far forward and the tongue weight was too heavy. Also, I could feel the difference when cranking up the trailer stand as it was easier than before. The bunks still stick out past the transom a bit so I may tweek it just a bit more.
alfred posted 09-06-2008 11:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for alfred  Send Email to alfred     
That is good to know. I will move mine back as well once I launch her.
Jerry Townsend posted 09-06-2008 01:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jerry Townsend  Send Email to Jerry Townsend     
Again you guys - be careful - as our boats weigh quite a bit and an inch - or two - can make a big difference. And - typically, the C/G of the boat is just a few inches in-front of the axle. Remember - it doesn't make any difference how far the bunks stick out behind the transom (within reason, of course) - as long as the transom is supported. ------ Jerry/Idaho

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