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Author Topic:   1999 outrage 21?? Can't seem to find it

skislats posted 07-29-2009 09:05 PM ET (US)

I am doing my usual obsessive research because I am considering adding an outrage to the fleet to smooth out that Lake Erie chop. My 79 Montauk never lets me down but I get a heck of a work out some days....I value your experienced comments......thanks
skislats posted 07-29-2009 09:08 PM ET (US)
What I am looking for is the dry weight (no motor)
dnh posted 07-29-2009 10:57 PM ET (US)
Unless you already bought the boat, do not buy it.
The good 21 was made from 1993-1998. In 1999 Brunswick redesigned the boat. Reduced the cleat size in half. Got rid of a bow locker. Got rid of the cooler seat. Put in a Euro transom, both literally and figuratively cutting corners.
Its an ugly beast compared to the earlier model.
diveorfish posted 07-30-2009 12:31 PM ET (US)
The state weight of a 2001 23 outrage is 3,375lbs. the 21 Outrage is a very similar design so just 2 feet shorter. With that said, a good guess should put the hull weight at around 2900-3000 lbs.
No offense to dnh, but I have a different opinion regarding the 98’ plus Outrage 21 though.
It is more boat than a pre 98’. It does have a very large bow anchor locker as well as a large bow storage area. It has a larger console that accommodates a porta-potty. It has higher freeboard. There is a seat in front of the console and the cooler was moved under the leaning post (which was a much preferable option)
I prefer the euro transoms and so do most other folks because most center consoles have them. Euro transoms keep the back of the boat dryer and make it way easier to get on and off the boat.
I’m not sure how big a cleat has to be on a 21 foot boat, but the cleats on the 98’ plus outrage are more than adequate to tie a thick line to.
skislats posted 07-30-2009 12:48 PM ET (US)

No, I did not buy one. I am patiently searching. I do agree that the newer ones seem to look just like everything else. The reason I asked about the dry weight is that from year to year as the designs changed, there seemed to be dramatic weight changes in the hulls. An example is the outrage 19. It would probably be obvious if I saw them side by side. Ya want to believe that changes are usually for the better but we all know how that deal works. I have a really sweet montauk and when I step into an outrage, I want to make sure it is the right one.
Anyone else have any Outrage chatter that I can chew on??
Thanks,
Dave
Perry posted 07-30-2009 01:29 PM ET (US)

quote:
I prefer the euro transoms and so do most other folks because most center consoles have them.
What??
muskrat posted 07-30-2009 09:38 PM ET (US)
I used my 1981 montauk exclusively on western lake Erie for ten years that boat had amazing abilities in cross and following seas but when I had to point her up wind in a northeaster ouch! I know what you mean by a workout. For the sake of the wife and two small children I sold her last year (many tears)and baught the 190 nantucket/outrage this boat loves taking on those steep lake Erie whitecaps. Dry weight on the 190 is 2050 which is 750 more than the old montauk dry weight on the new 220 outrage is 3100. I really miss the old montauk but Im learning to love the new boat if you have the room and money to keep your montauk and pick up a bigger outrage than your lucky and Im jealous. good luck on your boat hunt.
muskrat posted 07-30-2009 09:45 PM ET (US)
Also I wish whaler would quit it with the euro transom. waste of deck space and I dont like the look.
skislats posted 07-31-2009 12:46 PM ET (US)
The plan is to let go of my 68 13' which is now serving as my small (compared to Erie) lake cottage boat and keep the montauk for the cottage. I once had 3 whalers at the same time and everyone, including my wife, thought I was nuts. So I have learned that my life will be easier with a deliberate logical plan.
Well that's good info to know that the Nantucket manages Lake Erie well. I always chuckle when the Bass tourney guys show up with their bass boats on windy days. They are always supprised. Anyway,the weight is much less that the newer 22. What motor do you have on the Nantucket?
thanks
skislats posted 07-31-2009 12:47 PM ET (US)
The plan is to let go of my 68 13' which is now serving as my small (compared to Erie) lake cottage boat and keep the montauk for the cottage. I once had 3 whalers at the same time and everyone, including my wife, thought I was nuts. So I have learned that my life will be easier with a deliberate logical plan.
Well that's good info to know that the Nantucket manages Lake Erie well. I always chuckle when the Bass tourney guys show up with their bass boats on windy days. They are always supprised. Anyway,the weight is much less that the newer 22. What motor do you have on the Nantucket?
thanks
muskrat posted 07-31-2009 08:57 PM ET (US)
skislats I have a merc 115 4-stroke which gets me 5.5 mpg which is 1.5 miles more than I was getting on my montauk with a 90hp johnson. However I would recommend more hp on this boat as with more than 3 adults aboard it is very slow to plane. I miss the nimble power of my old montauk but my new to me nantucket is amazing with 8ft beam self bailing cockpit and built in 60 gal fuel tank. This is my first 4-stroke and it is winning me over quickly no mixing oil no choke smooth and quiet I will upgrade to more horsepower but not for a while as this boat was already over the planned budget and even mentioning the idea may endanger my marriage. One thing you should note the outrage has allot more bilge area and water does find its way in there even with the self bailing deck if your out in the rain all day. Oddly the rear cup holders drain into the bilge but with two bilge pumps one auto one manual its not really an issue but I prefer the montauks 1 gallon bilge but I guess running all controlls and wiring through the 4 inch pipe was a pain. Boy I talk to much. good luck.
dnh posted 08-02-2009 03:08 AM ET (US)
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/015952.html
Here is a side by side comparison.
Moose posted 08-02-2009 11:37 AM ET (US)
Skislats,
That 21 Outrage would be a great choice for Lake Erie. It is more boat than most 21 footers. Tons of storage, lockable electronics box, a large bow locker, in-deck fishboxes, head, 125 gallon gas tank, it can handle up to 250 HP, the cooler seat was an option and has been on most I've seen. Diveorfish was right on with the weight, according to the 2000 product catalog the 21 is 3,000 lbs. I could not find my 1999 catalog, but believe those two model years were identical.
It is a beautifully designed and thought out boat. The transom, as diveorfish stated, is nice & dry. The boarding ladder and boarding area is very easy to use compared to some of the older designs.
I have the 'little brother' of this boat, the 2000 18 Outrage. The dealer I bought from had both in stock, and I spent many winter Saturdays climbing all over both of them and become very impressed with the 21. In the end I pulled up short on the price difference...
The cleats are not half size. They are full and normal sized, good quality and there are seven of them (one inside the bow locker). Many Whalers out there only have four. It would be cartoonish to put cleats on that boat that were twice as large.
Good luck with the shopping,
Moose

dnh posted 08-05-2009 06:06 AM ET (US)
Here is the Whaler website material for the 1999 21 Outrage.
The picture works if you click on it.
http://web.archive.org/web/19990202110602/www.whaler.com/recreation/ outrage/outrage.21.html
I would note that Whaler (actually Brunswick) still sells the 1998 21 Outrage as a 21 Justice. Exact same boat (extra glass, etc. notwithstanding). They do not use the 1999 21 Outrage hull. Here is a link:
http://www.brunswickcgp.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view& id=44&Itemid=86
I am sure it is a good boat, but I have literally done a side by side comparison and think the 1993-1998 hull is better.
Everyone has their own opinions, and I am sure you will be happy with whatever you find.
Moose posted 08-05-2009 09:20 AM ET (US)
Skislats,
Here is an updated 1999 website page regarding the 21 Outrage. It does appear to be the identical boat/hull as the 2000 regarding weight, horsepower, etc., as I suspected in my first posting.
http://web.archive.org/web/20000310072035/www.whaler.com/Boats/ outrage21.html
The link provided in the previous posting shows what I believe to be a very inaccurate weight and a lower HP rating. My 2000 18 Outrage would weight more (2,500 1bs. vs. 2,300 lbs.) and have a higher HP rating (200 vs 175) than the 21 if that previous link was correct. If you click photo on either of the two links they show the same exact model.
And, one more correction. The hull from the 1999 21 is in fact still very much in use and has been since it's introduction, a very long and successful production run. Whaler has used it for the 210 Ventura, part of their mainstream consumer product line up.
http://www.whaler.com/boats/boat-210ventura/
Good luck,
Moose
dnh posted 08-07-2009 12:56 PM ET (US)
Well whatever you do don't get a Ventura instead of an Outrage!
dnh posted 08-07-2009 12:56 PM ET (US)
Well whatever you do don't get a Ventura instead of an Outrage!

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Author	Topic: 1999 outrage 21?? Can't seem to find it
skislats	posted 07-29-2009 09:05 PM ET (US) I am doing my usual obsessive research because I am considering adding an outrage to the fleet to smooth out that Lake Erie chop. My 79 Montauk never lets me down but I get a heck of a work out some days....I value your experienced comments......thanks
skislats	posted 07-29-2009 09:08 PM ET (US) What I am looking for is the dry weight (no motor)
dnh	posted 07-29-2009 10:57 PM ET (US) Unless you already bought the boat, do not buy it. The good 21 was made from 1993-1998. In 1999 Brunswick redesigned the boat. Reduced the cleat size in half. Got rid of a bow locker. Got rid of the cooler seat. Put in a Euro transom, both literally and figuratively cutting corners. Its an ugly beast compared to the earlier model.
diveorfish	posted 07-30-2009 12:31 PM ET (US) The state weight of a 2001 23 outrage is 3,375lbs. the 21 Outrage is a very similar design so just 2 feet shorter. With that said, a good guess should put the hull weight at around 2900-3000 lbs. No offense to dnh, but I have a different opinion regarding the 98’ plus Outrage 21 though. It is more boat than a pre 98’. It does have a very large bow anchor locker as well as a large bow storage area. It has a larger console that accommodates a porta-potty. It has higher freeboard. There is a seat in front of the console and the cooler was moved under the leaning post (which was a much preferable option) I prefer the euro transoms and so do most other folks because most center consoles have them. Euro transoms keep the back of the boat dryer and make it way easier to get on and off the boat. I’m not sure how big a cleat has to be on a 21 foot boat, but the cleats on the 98’ plus outrage are more than adequate to tie a thick line to.
skislats	posted 07-30-2009 12:48 PM ET (US) No, I did not buy one. I am patiently searching. I do agree that the newer ones seem to look just like everything else. The reason I asked about the dry weight is that from year to year as the designs changed, there seemed to be dramatic weight changes in the hulls. An example is the outrage 19. It would probably be obvious if I saw them side by side. Ya want to believe that changes are usually for the better but we all know how that deal works. I have a really sweet montauk and when I step into an outrage, I want to make sure it is the right one. Anyone else have any Outrage chatter that I can chew on?? Thanks, Dave
Perry	posted 07-30-2009 01:29 PM ET (US) quote: I prefer the euro transoms and so do most other folks because most center consoles have them. What??
muskrat	posted 07-30-2009 09:38 PM ET (US) I used my 1981 montauk exclusively on western lake Erie for ten years that boat had amazing abilities in cross and following seas but when I had to point her up wind in a northeaster ouch! I know what you mean by a workout. For the sake of the wife and two small children I sold her last year (many tears)and baught the 190 nantucket/outrage this boat loves taking on those steep lake Erie whitecaps. Dry weight on the 190 is 2050 which is 750 more than the old montauk dry weight on the new 220 outrage is 3100. I really miss the old montauk but Im learning to love the new boat if you have the room and money to keep your montauk and pick up a bigger outrage than your lucky and Im jealous. good luck on your boat hunt.
muskrat	posted 07-30-2009 09:45 PM ET (US) Also I wish whaler would quit it with the euro transom. waste of deck space and I dont like the look.
skislats	posted 07-31-2009 12:46 PM ET (US) The plan is to let go of my 68 13' which is now serving as my small (compared to Erie) lake cottage boat and keep the montauk for the cottage. I once had 3 whalers at the same time and everyone, including my wife, thought I was nuts. So I have learned that my life will be easier with a deliberate logical plan. Well that's good info to know that the Nantucket manages Lake Erie well. I always chuckle when the Bass tourney guys show up with their bass boats on windy days. They are always supprised. Anyway,the weight is much less that the newer 22. What motor do you have on the Nantucket? thanks
skislats	posted 07-31-2009 12:47 PM ET (US) The plan is to let go of my 68 13' which is now serving as my small (compared to Erie) lake cottage boat and keep the montauk for the cottage. I once had 3 whalers at the same time and everyone, including my wife, thought I was nuts. So I have learned that my life will be easier with a deliberate logical plan. Well that's good info to know that the Nantucket manages Lake Erie well. I always chuckle when the Bass tourney guys show up with their bass boats on windy days. They are always supprised. Anyway,the weight is much less that the newer 22. What motor do you have on the Nantucket? thanks
muskrat	posted 07-31-2009 08:57 PM ET (US) skislats I have a merc 115 4-stroke which gets me 5.5 mpg which is 1.5 miles more than I was getting on my montauk with a 90hp johnson. However I would recommend more hp on this boat as with more than 3 adults aboard it is very slow to plane. I miss the nimble power of my old montauk but my new to me nantucket is amazing with 8ft beam self bailing cockpit and built in 60 gal fuel tank. This is my first 4-stroke and it is winning me over quickly no mixing oil no choke smooth and quiet I will upgrade to more horsepower but not for a while as this boat was already over the planned budget and even mentioning the idea may endanger my marriage. One thing you should note the outrage has allot more bilge area and water does find its way in there even with the self bailing deck if your out in the rain all day. Oddly the rear cup holders drain into the bilge but with two bilge pumps one auto one manual its not really an issue but I prefer the montauks 1 gallon bilge but I guess running all controlls and wiring through the 4 inch pipe was a pain. Boy I talk to much. good luck.
dnh	posted 08-02-2009 03:08 AM ET (US) http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/015952.html Here is a side by side comparison.
Moose	posted 08-02-2009 11:37 AM ET (US) Skislats, That 21 Outrage would be a great choice for Lake Erie. It is more boat than most 21 footers. Tons of storage, lockable electronics box, a large bow locker, in-deck fishboxes, head, 125 gallon gas tank, it can handle up to 250 HP, the cooler seat was an option and has been on most I've seen. Diveorfish was right on with the weight, according to the 2000 product catalog the 21 is 3,000 lbs. I could not find my 1999 catalog, but believe those two model years were identical. It is a beautifully designed and thought out boat. The transom, as diveorfish stated, is nice & dry. The boarding ladder and boarding area is very easy to use compared to some of the older designs. I have the 'little brother' of this boat, the 2000 18 Outrage. The dealer I bought from had both in stock, and I spent many winter Saturdays climbing all over both of them and become very impressed with the 21. In the end I pulled up short on the price difference... The cleats are not half size. They are full and normal sized, good quality and there are seven of them (one inside the bow locker). Many Whalers out there only have four. It would be cartoonish to put cleats on that boat that were twice as large. Good luck with the shopping, Moose
dnh	posted 08-05-2009 06:06 AM ET (US) Here is the Whaler website material for the 1999 21 Outrage. The picture works if you click on it. http://web.archive.org/web/19990202110602/www.whaler.com/recreation/ outrage/outrage.21.html I would note that Whaler (actually Brunswick) still sells the 1998 21 Outrage as a 21 Justice. Exact same boat (extra glass, etc. notwithstanding). They do not use the 1999 21 Outrage hull. Here is a link: http://www.brunswickcgp.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view& id=44&Itemid=86 I am sure it is a good boat, but I have literally done a side by side comparison and think the 1993-1998 hull is better. Everyone has their own opinions, and I am sure you will be happy with whatever you find.
Moose	posted 08-05-2009 09:20 AM ET (US) Skislats, Here is an updated 1999 website page regarding the 21 Outrage. It does appear to be the identical boat/hull as the 2000 regarding weight, horsepower, etc., as I suspected in my first posting. http://web.archive.org/web/20000310072035/www.whaler.com/Boats/ outrage21.html The link provided in the previous posting shows what I believe to be a very inaccurate weight and a lower HP rating. My 2000 18 Outrage would weight more (2,500 1bs. vs. 2,300 lbs.) and have a higher HP rating (200 vs 175) than the 21 if that previous link was correct. If you click photo on either of the two links they show the same exact model. And, one more correction. The hull from the 1999 21 is in fact still very much in use and has been since it's introduction, a very long and successful production run. Whaler has used it for the 210 Ventura, part of their mainstream consumer product line up. http://www.whaler.com/boats/boat-210ventura/ Good luck, Moose
dnh	posted 08-07-2009 12:56 PM ET (US) Well whatever you do don't get a Ventura instead of an Outrage!
dnh	posted 08-07-2009 12:56 PM ET (US) Well whatever you do don't get a Ventura instead of an Outrage!