posted 01-29-2005 07:42 PM ET (US)        

Although not a true Whaler, it still has the Bob Dougherty classic look and ride. If Boston Whaler still had an OUTRAGE 18 in production I would have probably gone that route.

The rig came with a single axle trailer and disc brakes. I had no problem towing up hills and being stuck in bumper to bumper traffic as well as cruising at 62 mph going down the highway with my little four-cylinder Toyota T100.

I have to sell my 1987 Montauk now to make room for parking.

posted 01-29-2005 10:01 PM ET (US)            

MSRP for new 185 with standard options is $39,000

Johnston Marin (L.A.) offered it to me at $30,000 new with an average galvanized trailer. No extras.

A friend found one for me and I jumped on it.

2002 with 210 hours, 115-HP EFI Yamaha, just serviced ($400), hydraulic steering, full bimini, new cover, 550 RMS fishfinder, leaning post, raw and freshwater pumps, built in two-scoop live well, custom installed lifting rings. DKM trailer with disc brakes, single axle. The best trailer I have ever seen. The brakes made the difference in being able to tow with safety margin. (The boat was launched from a hoist and the trailer was never dipped in saltwater at Sir Frances Yacht Harbor). Estimated Well over $6,000 for these add ons.

The owner was meticulous. Kept every receipt that was spent along with all of the service reciepts. Boat was used regularly for fishing Duxbury and Golden Gate areas.

posted 01-29-2005 10:52 PM ET (US)            

For your info I had the Outrage 18 and the Edgewater 185 side by side today at the hoist. The Outrage console is further back. More room in the front but less room in the back especially with this Outrage that still had the full backseat along the splashwell. The Edgwater has more room from the back of the console even with the built-in live well which is located dead center along the splashwell. The Edgewater has more freeboard with a substantial casting deck with high freeboard along with the rail. The Whaler has much more room from the front of the console.

The biggest difference though is the center of gravity in the placement of the console. Whaler CG is further back, Edgwater CG further forward. What was Bob Dougherty thinking? Would love to have him give his two cents in comparing the two.

On the sea trial today in San Francisco Bay, we had to find the Bay sightseeing cruisers to try to pound in their wakes.
The Edgewater never pounded, stayed dry, and keep laid back down into the swells gently and cut through the windchop just as expected. 4400 RPM at 25-knots with three people and 3/4 tank full of gas was a nice steady cruising speed.

posted 01-31-2005 12:36 PM ET (US)            

Are edgewaters made with the same "uni bond" foam sandwich construction? I like that 15 footer. Are the edgewaters light like the older classics?

posted 01-31-2005 10:44 PM ET (US)            

Instead of two this skins sandwich with foam.

The edgewater outer skin is made up of thick fiberglass woving and fabric like a regularly made boat, then an enternal
skeleton ...like a backbone..is also laid down like the way they build skyscrapers..with longitudinal and 90 degree cross members that are designed and cut out with cnc machines.

Then they have a special patent that allows this skeleton to be bonded to the transom and outer hull and decks...And everything is shot through and through with their patented
dense foam material.

So, if you will, you have a whaler with a thick outer hull and an internal skeleton on top of and unibody foamed in one piece structure.

the transom area is particularly overengineered with special triaxial woving and manmade composites. No wood in the transom

And then to make sure..that there is no deterioration. There is no wood anywhere else.

all hardware are 318 stainless and through bolted with stainless or phenolic backing plates.

The bottom line.... the ride is absolutely solid, no shudders, vibrations, squeals. The hull does what you ask of if and more.

That's why when it first came out. It won so many awards by the boating industry for its unique way of building a boat.

posted 01-31-2005 10:55 PM ET (US)            

for the 185 center console

1750 with an empty tank of gas.

more freeboard than the outrage 18. 7 foot 6 inch on the beam compard to 8 foot for the outrage.

Major differences between the two for fishing.

Built in well designed and efficient live well. hardly takes up any space. On the Whaler you will have to put a portable live well. and do a bunch of ingenious plumbing.

Edgwater has a sump which allows for a through hull fitting
for below the waterline intake for the live wells and the raw water hoses. Industrial grade pumps that provide lots of water pressure for both.

Not a bilge in the classic sense. Most of the space is filled in. Its kind of like on the montauk where you can pop the plug and not worry about sinking.

right at the bow there is a big locker. anchors, bumpers, etc can be stored there. Lots of other lockers, not including the console which is like a 55 gallon emmpty garbage can of space.

Leaning post with beefy rod holders.

Console if forward leaving a huge amount of space in the aft section for fishing.

Bob Dougherty outdid himself with this design.

The 18 footer is the one that he and his son focused on to come out with first.

needless to say ..they knew what the competition was that they had to compete with.

posted 01-31-2005 11:06 PM ET (US)            

This is misleading. I don't like the verb "shot through." It implies something that is not taking place.

In an Edgewater the foam shape is molded first, then the boat is laminated to the cured foam. The two are pre-molded to fit together. This is the opposite of the approach used by Whaler.

Whaler molds the boat first, then pours in the foam. The foam is molded by the void between the boat half-molds.

The Edgewater technique claims these advantages:

--no voids in foam because it can be inspected before use; Whaler method uses a "blind" foaming;

--no poor bonds between foam and laminate because the joining is done after molding; again Whaler method uses a "blind" approach to the bonding.

posted 01-31-2005 11:22 PM ET (US)            

you are right...the way they try to describe it...

"This super rigied structure is bonded to the transo, hull and deck, then INJECTED with foam to yield a boat that is essentially one piece. RAMCAP bonds the hull and deck to a pre-molded foam shape-adhering the fiberglass to the foam, not the foam to the fiberglass"

If you look at their pictures. You see them INJECTING foam into holes to fill their stringers and beams.

posted 01-31-2005 11:47 PM ET (US)            

Bob Dougherty and his son started a new boat company..
everglades

Not sure if post 2002 models are made the same under Dougherty
tenure there....

The designs are the same...workup and building practices, quality control, etc...they change with management.

Hopefully they don't mess up a fine record.

What do you think about Whalers being owned now by the same company that owns bayliners and trophy boats. Are they indepent of each other. Will brunswick corp be more interested in quality and tradition or the all mighty
profit margin and cutting corners to sell at a more competitive price? The new montauks don't have the same clean lines and subtle curves as the old classics. Everyone complains about the console. Do you think Bob Dougherty would have made the new montauk in this fashion?

Only time and the likes of people on this forum will eak out the truth. Real world experience on the water is the bottom line.

posted 02-01-2005 09:37 AM ET (US)            

The process I was mentioning was developed by Dougherty and is called RAMCAP™. See the EVERGLADES BY DOUGHERTY website for more information:

http://www.evergladesboats.com/ramcap.html

posted 02-01-2005 02:52 PM ET (US)            

I have the original brochure for my 2002. The quote is directly copied from my brochure. Also, in the brochure there are pictures of the workers injecting foam into what looks to me like the skeleton stringers beams. You can see the foam oozing out of holes and you can see the huge hose that they are pumping the stuff out of.

posted 02-01-2005 02:57 PM ET (US)            

So,

Let me say thanks again for all of the input in the purchase of my boat. Like I said, if they still made the outrage like the old classic I would have bought it .....but having to gamble on a used rig and the potential of adding 10,000 for a
repower was too much of a risk for me.

posted 02-01-2005 03:41 PM ET (US)            

First of all let me congratulate you with your new boat. I'm sure it will be a very fine boat indeed. I do have a couple of thoughts that I would like to share with you though.

After going to the Amsterdam boat show in 2002 I was very disappointed with the Edgewater boats that were presented at their section there. I liked their looks and features. Knowing Mr. Dougherty designed them gave me high expectations. I don't know about other Whaler owners but every time I check out a boat I always bang the side of the boat with my fist and automatically compare the feel and sound to a Whaler. Like with most other boats the Edgewater sounded very hollow above the waterline. It felt and sounded no where near as dense and strong as a Whaler. The new boats may be stronger and completely filled with foam but not the ones I saw. At the time I was disappointed because I was expecting the Edgewaters to be like Boston Whalers, not only for the way I thought they were built but also because of the price. There was virtually no price difference for similar boats.

One more thought I would like to share.

You stated: "The new Montauks don't have the same clean lines and subtle curves as the old classics. Everyone complains about the console. Do you think Bob Dougherty would have made the new Montauk in this fashion?"

True, there are some issues Whaler could have improved on the 170 Montauk, like the console height. However the new Legend series and especially the 170 Montauk, have inherited the significant features of their classic parents. You can see that the 170 Montauk is a Whaler from miles away when out on the water. I don't know if Bob Dougherty had anything to do with that...however his genes may still be present.

posted 02-01-2005 05:10 PM ET (US)            

It's not the same. there are trade-offs. the freeboard areas are not the same

No foam in there. I know what you mean about bangin on the sides of the hull. The finish on the montauk is the best and there are many subtle curves that you appreciate. I see the same in the older classic outrages. Like i said if they sold that guardian 19 at a competitive price for the people and not for governmental contract where they can charge lots more; I would probably prefer a 2 year old guardian hull vs a 2 year old edgwater.

I might have also bought a used nantucket but at the time when this particular deal came about. there weren't any deals on them either. So, I had to make a decision. .After the way it performed on the sea trial, It was clearly a solid offshore ride and performed in a manner that I wanted out of a hull.

We'll see how it holds up over time and how other edgewater owners
feel about their boats. Time on the water will expose and forge the truth out of these hulls. I can't wait to see how it holds up on some tuna runs this year.

posted 02-02-2005 12:58 PM ET (US)            

Sorry guys if I offended you or touched a nerve. please excues the sloppy use of words.

I still have my montauk. My friend has the 170. I simply meant to say that I prefer the lines and many subtle touches in the montauk. It looks better to me. Same with the outrage I vs. the outrage II. Not to say that any of these aren't great boats..i would expect that they all have that great whaler ride.

posted 02-02-2005 07:55 PM ET (US)            

Now with Everglades it looks like every boat
in their lineup is similiar to Ramcap.I don't
think they use a single piece of foam for
the hull,I believe there is multiple pieces
that are glassed into the base of the hull.
The sides seem to be single walled solid glass.

Speaking of Everglades I seen their new offshore
model at this past weekend boat show in St.Pete.
It looks to be one well thought out offshore boat.
With twin 250 Yamaha 4-strokes the price was set
at 135,000.