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Author Topic:   Yamaha updates their F150

Marko888 posted 11-04-2014 02:37 PM ET (US)
[This article had no content except a] hyperlink [to a PDF document from Yamaha apparently intended for dealers and customers that highlights some features of a new engine they have announced.]
jimh posted 11-04-2014 03:24 PM ET (US)
What changes were made by Yamaha in their F150 outboard in this October, 2014 update?
masbama posted 11-04-2014 07:07 PM ET (US)
Certainly not the weight.
msirof2001 posted 11-04-2014 08:29 PM ET (US)
I have the 4-stroke 4cyl 200 version of this engine on my 1995 Outrage 21. I am unbelievably happy with this setup.
I saw in another forum, I think, where someone in the Seattle area posted that he had a Outrage 19 mid 1990's and was looking to re-power to the 200 that I have. But I think the 19 is limited to 150hp. This would be a great option.
My Outrage 21 has a 300 max HP rating. But 489lbs x 2 would be way too heavy. C Bennett at Whaler said one shouldn't go over about 700lbs on the Outrage 21 (1993-1997) transom. If I had wanted to go larger than the F200 XB, I probably would have gone with the F300 XCA. But here after 100 hours since last March, I'm thrilled with the F200 XB. This 150 looks great.
leadsled posted 11-05-2014 05:53 AM ET (US)
The warranty is 3 for recreational, 1 year for commercial and get this! 3 years for Government. Those Government stunt pilots get 3 years! At least the Commercial guys know they are going to have to pay if they wreck the engine.
saumon posted 11-05-2014 06:12 AM ET (US)
It must be a typo. 3 months for governmental use would be considered generous...
Peter posted 11-06-2014 05:20 AM ET (US)
I'm surprised that Yamaha didn't build the 150 on their 2.8L 4-cylinder block/platform that they use for the F175 and F200 to save manufacturing costs.
jimh posted 11-06-2014 08:27 AM ET (US)
The engine under discussion is apparently the Yamaha F150B.
What were the F150 and F150A? How did they differ? When were they introduced?
I need some context to this discussion. Thanks if you can help.
jimh posted 11-06-2014 12:18 PM ET (US)
msirof2001 writes:

quote:
I have the 4-stroke 4cyl 200 version of this engine...
Peter writes:

quote:
I'm surprised that Yamaha didn't build the 150 on their 2.8L 4-cylinder block/platform that they use for the F175 and F200...
These two remarks seem to be contradictory. Is the engine under discussion, the Yamaha F150B announced last month, a de-tuned version of the 200, as msirof2001 suggests? Or, as Peter suggests, the Yamaha F150B is not based on the 200-HP engine, but is a new design? I am getting very confused.
onlyawhaler posted 11-06-2014 12:58 PM ET (US)
I pulled and compared the same date from four outdoor and fishing websites in the UK. Apparently, [the engine is] starting there for some reason and not here. Nothing is on the US Yamaha website that I can see.
These are the changes to the Yamaha F150B
Unique features of the Yamaha F150B include:
--hard chrome-plated piston rings and molybdenum-coated pistons offer low abrasion characteristics for prolonged use at a constant rpm – typical of commercial use
--updated ECM (Engine Control Module) and fuel injectors – both designed to give the benefit of increased low to mid range torque
--an hour-meter is standard
--counter rotation versions available for twin-engine fitments
--Yamaha LAN wiring system
--Yamaha Digital Network Gauge system (DNG)
--Yamaha wide range Trim and Tilt
--freshwater flushing point
--Yamaha Diagnostic System allows laptop access to ECM data

msirof2001 posted 11-06-2014 07:45 PM ET (US)
I see they are somewhat different. For example, slightly different displacement, different compression ratio. But I would say the new F150 is a lot closer to mine than the old F150. [Here a long listing of specifications for an engine that is not the new Yamaha F150B engine was posted.]
jimh posted 11-06-2014 08:32 PM ET (US)
You guys are still confusing me. Is this new, just announced (but only in Europe) version of the Yamaha 150-HP engine just a detuned version of their present 200-HP engine? Or is it a new engine block, new design?
On the warranty to a government user being three-years and not three-months, maybe that is for European governments and not for our Department of Homeland Security rough riders.
jimh posted 11-06-2014 08:40 PM ET (US)

quote:
Unique features of the Yamaha F150B include...
--Yamaha Diagnostic System allows laptop access to ECM data
This seems quite unusual. If use of the Yamaha diagnostic system is unique to this new F150B model, that means no other Yamaha engines have this feature. Can that be right? I am not familiar with the Yamaha diagnostic software, but it certainly seems odd that only one engine in the Yamaha line of outboard engines would have this feature. Actually, none of the features listed seems particularly unique. Many outboard engines are available in counter-rotation models. Maybe the copy writer doesn't understand the meaning of "unique."
Peter posted 11-06-2014 09:50 PM ET (US)
The Yamaha F150B is built on the 2.7L (2670cc to be exact) block with a 94mm bore and a 96.2mm stroke. The F175 and F200B are built on a 2.8L (2785cc to be exact) block with a 96mm bore and a 96.2mm stroke. The F200B has a variable cam timing system, the F150B and F175 do not.
My guess is that if they built the F150B with the same bore as the F175/F200B, there would be even less performance differentiation between the F150 and the F175/F200B than the small amount of performance differentiation that exists now.
Maybe they will make an F135?
martyn1075 posted 11-06-2014 11:57 PM ET (US)
The variable timing is the really the big thing here. I would agree I'm a bit confused on why they didn't use the 2.8L. Could a 2.7 really achieve noticably better fuel mileage? Perhaps they had problems fitting the 2.8 engine into the cowling. It does appear to have the new design cowling much like the new F200.
jimh posted 11-07-2014 04:23 AM ET (US)
Peter--Thanks for clearing up some of the confusion.
It sounds like the new F150B is really a sort of under-bored version of the 200-HP engine without the variable valve timing. Is that a fair description?
Peter posted 11-07-2014 07:21 AM ET (US)
I look at it the other way. Given that the 2.7L F150 existed long before the F175 and F200B models and the new F150B continues to use the same displacement as well as bore and stroke as the prior version, I see the F175 and F200B are merely over-bored F150s with the F200B having, in addition to the increased bore, the variable cam timing to squeeze out a little more performance.
Given the opportunity to make a 150 to 200 HP 4-stroke motor with one displacement which would save costs and may also allow use of the same propeller shaft driving gear ratio (1.86:1 instead of 2:1) which would also save costs, I wonder why Yamaha chose not to do so. It seems contrary to what others do in this segment. See for example, Suzuki which uses the same displacement for its 3 offerings in the in-line 4 cylinder 150 to 200 HP segment. Or Honda which has three models (115 to 150 HP) using its largest displacement (2.4L) in-line 4-cylinder platform.
onlyawhaler posted 11-07-2014 11:29 AM ET (US)
Good Point on the displacement Peter.
I would have thought why not make this on the 175/200 block? Just detune it a bit and save the costs of having 2 blocks.
The Yamaha F150 is a big seller for Yamaha and seems to have a stellar reputation. It will probably continue to outsell the F200 as it fits so many applications. Why change such a good thing.
Here are a few more updates. These comments come from the Outdoor Wire website
"Demand is as high as it's ever been for the F150 for three reasons: performance, reliability and customer satisfaction," said Ben Speciale, President, Yamaha Marine Group. "The advanced-technology, DOHC 2.7-liter block is a time-tested platform that has been proven again and again. With these updates, the F150 will continue to be a Yamaha staple in our product line."
The new F150B has an eight-tooth "dog clutch," which replaces the previous six-tooth version for smoother, trouble-free shifting and excellent reliability. The new F150 also has internal machining and metallurgical improvements that include stronger, better valve guides and valve seats.
The F150B now has Yamaha's variable trolling RPM switch (VTS), which allows anglers to adjust the trolling speed in 50-RPM increments from 650 to 900 RPM using a Yamaha Command Link® gauge. The result is an overall better fishing experience for anglers.
For quieter operation, the F150B includes the necessary hardware to accept Yamaha Reliance® Series SDS™ propellers. Yamaha's exclusive Shift Dampener System greatly reduces the noise associated with shifting gears and offers smooth, quiet operation.
Sterling
Onlyawhaler

msirof2001 posted 11-07-2014 12:08 PM ET (US)
Looks like the F150B has less of a compression ratio than the F200XB. My 200 is over 10:1. Therefore, I have to get 89 octane fuel, or above. With approx 9:1, I'm thinking you could use 87 octane. Where my boat is, the fuel docks have 87 and 91 so I use the 91. Definitely more costly but I don't want to take a chance with 87.
On another note, I saw the 150B accepts the SDS props. I have a Yamaha Reliance Series SDS prop on my F200XB. This prop is noticeably different. The grind-n-clunk into gear is gone with the SDS. That's a plus.

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Author	Topic: Yamaha updates their F150
Marko888	posted 11-04-2014 02:37 PM ET (US) [This article had no content except a] hyperlink [to a PDF document from Yamaha apparently intended for dealers and customers that highlights some features of a new engine they have announced.]
jimh	posted 11-04-2014 03:24 PM ET (US) What changes were made by Yamaha in their F150 outboard in this October, 2014 update?
masbama	posted 11-04-2014 07:07 PM ET (US) Certainly not the weight.
msirof2001	posted 11-04-2014 08:29 PM ET (US) I have the 4-stroke 4cyl 200 version of this engine on my 1995 Outrage 21. I am unbelievably happy with this setup. I saw in another forum, I think, where someone in the Seattle area posted that he had a Outrage 19 mid 1990's and was looking to re-power to the 200 that I have. But I think the 19 is limited to 150hp. This would be a great option. My Outrage 21 has a 300 max HP rating. But 489lbs x 2 would be way too heavy. C Bennett at Whaler said one shouldn't go over about 700lbs on the Outrage 21 (1993-1997) transom. If I had wanted to go larger than the F200 XB, I probably would have gone with the F300 XCA. But here after 100 hours since last March, I'm thrilled with the F200 XB. This 150 looks great.
leadsled	posted 11-05-2014 05:53 AM ET (US) The warranty is 3 for recreational, 1 year for commercial and get this! 3 years for Government. Those Government stunt pilots get 3 years! At least the Commercial guys know they are going to have to pay if they wreck the engine.
saumon	posted 11-05-2014 06:12 AM ET (US) It must be a typo. 3 months for governmental use would be considered generous...
Peter	posted 11-06-2014 05:20 AM ET (US) I'm surprised that Yamaha didn't build the 150 on their 2.8L 4-cylinder block/platform that they use for the F175 and F200 to save manufacturing costs.
jimh	posted 11-06-2014 08:27 AM ET (US) The engine under discussion is apparently the Yamaha F150B. What were the F150 and F150A? How did they differ? When were they introduced? I need some context to this discussion. Thanks if you can help.
jimh	posted 11-06-2014 12:18 PM ET (US) msirof2001 writes: quote: I have the 4-stroke 4cyl 200 version of this engine... Peter writes: quote: I'm surprised that Yamaha didn't build the 150 on their 2.8L 4-cylinder block/platform that they use for the F175 and F200... These two remarks seem to be contradictory. Is the engine under discussion, the Yamaha F150B announced last month, a de-tuned version of the 200, as msirof2001 suggests? Or, as Peter suggests, the Yamaha F150B is not based on the 200-HP engine, but is a new design? I am getting very confused.
onlyawhaler	posted 11-06-2014 12:58 PM ET (US) I pulled and compared the same date from four outdoor and fishing websites in the UK. Apparently, [the engine is] starting there for some reason and not here. Nothing is on the US Yamaha website that I can see. These are the changes to the Yamaha F150B Unique features of the Yamaha F150B include: --hard chrome-plated piston rings and molybdenum-coated pistons offer low abrasion characteristics for prolonged use at a constant rpm – typical of commercial use --updated ECM (Engine Control Module) and fuel injectors – both designed to give the benefit of increased low to mid range torque --an hour-meter is standard --counter rotation versions available for twin-engine fitments --Yamaha LAN wiring system --Yamaha Digital Network Gauge system (DNG) --Yamaha wide range Trim and Tilt --freshwater flushing point --Yamaha Diagnostic System allows laptop access to ECM data
msirof2001	posted 11-06-2014 07:45 PM ET (US) I see they are somewhat different. For example, slightly different displacement, different compression ratio. But I would say the new F150 is a lot closer to mine than the old F150. [Here a long listing of specifications for an engine that is not the new Yamaha F150B engine was posted.]
jimh	posted 11-06-2014 08:32 PM ET (US) You guys are still confusing me. Is this new, just announced (but only in Europe) version of the Yamaha 150-HP engine just a detuned version of their present 200-HP engine? Or is it a new engine block, new design? On the warranty to a government user being three-years and not three-months, maybe that is for European governments and not for our Department of Homeland Security rough riders.
jimh	posted 11-06-2014 08:40 PM ET (US) quote: Unique features of the Yamaha F150B include... --Yamaha Diagnostic System allows laptop access to ECM data This seems quite unusual. If use of the Yamaha diagnostic system is unique to this new F150B model, that means no other Yamaha engines have this feature. Can that be right? I am not familiar with the Yamaha diagnostic software, but it certainly seems odd that only one engine in the Yamaha line of outboard engines would have this feature. Actually, none of the features listed seems particularly unique. Many outboard engines are available in counter-rotation models. Maybe the copy writer doesn't understand the meaning of "unique."
Peter	posted 11-06-2014 09:50 PM ET (US) The Yamaha F150B is built on the 2.7L (2670cc to be exact) block with a 94mm bore and a 96.2mm stroke. The F175 and F200B are built on a 2.8L (2785cc to be exact) block with a 96mm bore and a 96.2mm stroke. The F200B has a variable cam timing system, the F150B and F175 do not. My guess is that if they built the F150B with the same bore as the F175/F200B, there would be even less performance differentiation between the F150 and the F175/F200B than the small amount of performance differentiation that exists now. Maybe they will make an F135?
martyn1075	posted 11-06-2014 11:57 PM ET (US) The variable timing is the really the big thing here. I would agree I'm a bit confused on why they didn't use the 2.8L. Could a 2.7 really achieve noticably better fuel mileage? Perhaps they had problems fitting the 2.8 engine into the cowling. It does appear to have the new design cowling much like the new F200.
jimh	posted 11-07-2014 04:23 AM ET (US) Peter--Thanks for clearing up some of the confusion. It sounds like the new F150B is really a sort of under-bored version of the 200-HP engine without the variable valve timing. Is that a fair description?
Peter	posted 11-07-2014 07:21 AM ET (US) I look at it the other way. Given that the 2.7L F150 existed long before the F175 and F200B models and the new F150B continues to use the same displacement as well as bore and stroke as the prior version, I see the F175 and F200B are merely over-bored F150s with the F200B having, in addition to the increased bore, the variable cam timing to squeeze out a little more performance. Given the opportunity to make a 150 to 200 HP 4-stroke motor with one displacement which would save costs and may also allow use of the same propeller shaft driving gear ratio (1.86:1 instead of 2:1) which would also save costs, I wonder why Yamaha chose not to do so. It seems contrary to what others do in this segment. See for example, Suzuki which uses the same displacement for its 3 offerings in the in-line 4 cylinder 150 to 200 HP segment. Or Honda which has three models (115 to 150 HP) using its largest displacement (2.4L) in-line 4-cylinder platform.
onlyawhaler	posted 11-07-2014 11:29 AM ET (US) Good Point on the displacement Peter. I would have thought why not make this on the 175/200 block? Just detune it a bit and save the costs of having 2 blocks. The Yamaha F150 is a big seller for Yamaha and seems to have a stellar reputation. It will probably continue to outsell the F200 as it fits so many applications. Why change such a good thing. Here are a few more updates. These comments come from the Outdoor Wire website "Demand is as high as it's ever been for the F150 for three reasons: performance, reliability and customer satisfaction," said Ben Speciale, President, Yamaha Marine Group. "The advanced-technology, DOHC 2.7-liter block is a time-tested platform that has been proven again and again. With these updates, the F150 will continue to be a Yamaha staple in our product line." The new F150B has an eight-tooth "dog clutch," which replaces the previous six-tooth version for smoother, trouble-free shifting and excellent reliability. The new F150 also has internal machining and metallurgical improvements that include stronger, better valve guides and valve seats. The F150B now has Yamaha's variable trolling RPM switch (VTS), which allows anglers to adjust the trolling speed in 50-RPM increments from 650 to 900 RPM using a Yamaha Command Link® gauge. The result is an overall better fishing experience for anglers. For quieter operation, the F150B includes the necessary hardware to accept Yamaha Reliance® Series SDS™ propellers. Yamaha's exclusive Shift Dampener System greatly reduces the noise associated with shifting gears and offers smooth, quiet operation. Sterling Onlyawhaler
msirof2001	posted 11-07-2014 12:08 PM ET (US) Looks like the F150B has less of a compression ratio than the F200XB. My 200 is over 10:1. Therefore, I have to get 89 octane fuel, or above. With approx 9:1, I'm thinking you could use 87 octane. Where my boat is, the fuel docks have 87 and 91 so I use the 91. Definitely more costly but I don't want to take a chance with 87. On another note, I saw the 150B accepts the SDS props. I have a Yamaha Reliance Series SDS prop on my F200XB. This prop is noticeably different. The grind-n-clunk into gear is gone with the SDS. That's a plus.