Re-designing the Reversible Pilot Seat (RPS)

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Author Topic:   Re-designing the Reversible Pilot Seat (RPS)

Legobusier posted 06-24-2004 02:07 PM ET (US)
I'm planning on building a new teak RPS for my 1987 Montauk and will likely be following the original design for the most part. What I would like to gather from you guys is what modifications (if any) you would make if given the task of re-designing the Montauk RPS.
I know many people think the seat is too low, and I agree, but other than that, what would you change? I'm most interested in design ideas for the seatback/swing arm portion.
I particularly like the addition of a "leaning post" top to this one and may incorporate that into my custom job:
http://www.covingtonhendrix.com/rpsmods.jpg
Any other modifications suggested?
Thanks,
Chris
elaelap posted 06-25-2004 08:45 PM ET (US)
Hey Chris,
I just finished reassembling my RPS after taking the whole damn Chinese puzzle apart, sanding, SeaFin-ing, replacing the cushion (via Lois Hall, of course), cleaning up the legs, refitting, and calling Tom Clark for help in remembering how to get it all back together again. An earlier owner of my 'new' '88 Outrage 18 had the fine old idea of slapping dark stain all over the punky, chalky, unfinished teak, so the sanding and refinishing was loads of fun...somehow more like an excavation project than just a light surface buffing prior to oiling.
Anyway...working that close with the thing for a couple of weeks made me appreciate the cleverness and strength of its design, and while I'm anything but a purist or restorationist, I don't know whether I'd mess about with its basic design very much. For example, at first I didn't like the big clunky handles on top of the teak back; now I appreciate them very much indeed as convenient handholds useful for moving about the deck at sea as well as handles to move the reversable seatback fore and aft. I also like the simple elegance of the two rod holders, one on either side of the handles. I notice in your photo link that both the handles and the rod holders are by necessity gone, and I really don't know whether that leaning post cushion would make up for their loss, at least for me.
Another factor that I might consider before altering the design of the RPS is the possible effect on an eventual sale of the boat. It might be that no matter how well constructed and attractive the redesigned RPS turned out, many prospective buyers would be put off by a deviation from the classic design, especially if one were seeking top dollar for an otherwise classically restored Whaler in prime condition.
Just some thoughts, Chris. I hate to be a stick-in-the-mud traditionalist--my personality is usually just the opposite--and I'm sure your design will be great. Go for it, my friend, and show the gloomy nay-sayers like me how wrong we are.
Tony
Legobusier posted 06-25-2004 09:31 PM ET (US)
Dear Nobody,
:)
Thanks for the thoughs and the laugh Tony. You're probably correct, and I'm sure your opinion is not unique on this matter - it's obviously a well thought out design - after all it's certainly stood the test of time.
As for the resale issue, I agree as well - except for the fact that I have NO seatback ata ll right now, so anything is an improvment. If I were to put the "leaning post" portion on the seat as in the photo, I think I would make it removable so it could be restored to it's original condition. I believe the one in the photo could be easily removed as well.
Anyhow, thanks for the comments.
Chris
Chuck Tribolet posted 06-25-2004 09:46 PM ET (US)
If by "leaning post" you mean padding the top of the seat back
so you can sit on it: DO IT. I've got a to do item to track
down some one who can upholster a piece to go on the top,
but I need to drill the piece to patch the existing handle
holes (handles came off a long time ago).

Chuck
Owen Schultz posted 06-25-2004 10:27 PM ET (US)
Did you ever see the picture on this site of the guy who mounted the nice wooden drawer under his RPS? Man that was sweet. I saved the picture for my renovation. I'll email it to you.
Legobusier posted 06-25-2004 10:32 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the photos Owen. I had not seen that one. Looks like a nice mod - raised up the seat too I see. Good one to consider.
Chris
Clark Roberts posted 06-26-2004 06:55 AM ET (US)
Lego, consider designing a "hard" stop for the seat back when using it as a leaning post! By this I mean something for the seat back to bottom-out on other than the seat cushion which eventually compresses and upholstry will suffer. Go for it! Clark.. SCN
jimp posted 06-26-2004 07:42 AM ET (US)
I just ordered a new teak back for the RPS as the white enclapsulated RPS seat on my brother's 1986 Montauk just had the bottom and lower sides rot out (spongy and I put my finger thru the bottom). The RPS needs some drain holes along the aft bottom joint to let water drain out. The white plastic prevented the teak from breathing and drying "naturally" and kept the water inside the lower part of the RPS. Years ago, I added 4 holes to my old 1982 Montauk years to drain the water.
JimP
striper swiper posted 06-26-2004 07:42 AM ET (US)
My thought for my RPS is to leave it in the back position and build a padded wedge that rests on the seat and voila a leaning post! As long as my fat gut doesnt get in the way of the wheel, it should work.Striper.
Phil Tyson posted 06-26-2004 10:57 AM ET (US)
Chris -
I like the idea of adding a leaning post addition to the top. Keeping in mind the originality, what you could do is install the handles and the rod holders as it is designed.
For the leaning cushion, fabricate it so that the section inserts into the rod holders with recesses for the handles.
While I know that is alot more work, it will give you a original RPS and a leaning cushion that can be removed.
I am considering building a leaning post top but am waiting till after I raise the RPS.
I agree with others that those handles are great. I use them everytime I go aft.
greyg8r posted 06-26-2004 06:11 PM ET (US)
I'm with Clark. I like the idea of a physical "stop" for the seatback other than the cushion, but it doesn't look easy (and probably isn't otherwise BW would have done it themselves.)
What about drink holders? I think the top is wide enough that you could have indentations for beer, er, sodas.
Richard
erik selis posted 06-27-2004 08:59 AM ET (US)
I am currently working on an RPS for my buddies 19-foot Outrage. I recently received the legs from Tom Clark (via the forum here)as well as the drawing of the pivot arms. The other drawings I got from Joe Kriz' s website.
We are planning to raise the whole RPS about 2 inches by using a brown coloured nylon similar to the colour of the legs. The nylon will be machined to have the same profile as the leg cross-section at the bottom so it will seem to be one with the legs.
The idea of raising the legs is first: making it more comfortable to sit behind the wheel and secondly, to fit a 72-quart cooler underneath. I have found stainless steel roller guides (one on each side) where the cooler will be mounted on. We will be using some kind of locking devise to keep the cooler in place while travelling. If we need to get into the cooler all we need to do is unlock the guides and slide out the cooler.
I personally think that the space under the RPS can be used for storage in this way and if the job is done right then it won't have any influence on the value of the boat.
When finished I will post some pictures,
Erik
jimfar posted 07-01-2004 02:40 PM ET (US)
I raised my RPS and put a drawer underneath the seat. It also gives me easy access to the fill cap on my Pate 28 gal tank. I sure like the seat up higher both for standing (it offers support to my thighs) and seated.
Check out my photos:
http://www.farriscabinets.com/whaler.htm
erik selis posted 07-01-2004 05:00 PM ET (US)
Jimfar, you have made some very nice modifications to your boat. Great stuff.
Erik

jimh posted 07-02-2004 09:10 AM ET (US)
On boats with internal fuel tanks, raising the RPS allows a cooler to be located beneath it.
Owen Schultz posted 07-03-2004 01:07 AM ET (US)
jimfar, you are the guy I was referring to that built the drawer under the RPS seat. Do you have any plans drawn for that drawer? I would like to build one or have one built for my Newport.
whalerajm posted 07-03-2004 11:06 PM ET (US)
I just finished raising my RPS on my 1975 Montauk to accomodate bigger gas tank...and raise seat higher...defimitely more comfortable...
Check it out:
ttp://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/whalerajm
But I have to hand it to Jimfar, Risers with the larger tank and a drawer to boot...Awesome!
I was feeling good about my project until I saw this...For my next project I think I'd like to hire Jimfar.
Whalerdan posted 07-07-2004 03:10 PM ET (US)

What are the PVC tubes sticking out the top for?
whalerajm posted 07-07-2004 09:28 PM ET (US)
WHALERDAN,
The PVC pipe extemsion in the pole holders are really quite functional ...
When I remove the PVC crossbar, the vertical PVC pipes extend the height of the pole holders giving me more clearance below the lines when walking/working in back of boat while trolling.
With the crossbar they make a good handhold while standing, especially while underway.
The bungee "wrap-around holds crossbar down so it doesn't pull up easily when you pull up on it.
I also hang a boom box/cd player from a bungee on the crossbar...that way the boom box never gets knocked around or breaks loose.
I've used it to hang foul weather gear when the weather clears for a while.
With the cross bar out it's agreat place for a long handled net to get it up and out of the way...
I could go on...it's a nice custom "feature" with unlimited uses.
If anyone ever wants to copy it, I would recommend removeableble pins to lock it in place at base and all joints.

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Author	Topic: Re-designing the Reversible Pilot Seat (RPS)
Legobusier	posted 06-24-2004 02:07 PM ET (US) I'm planning on building a new teak RPS for my 1987 Montauk and will likely be following the original design for the most part. What I would like to gather from you guys is what modifications (if any) you would make if given the task of re-designing the Montauk RPS. I know many people think the seat is too low, and I agree, but other than that, what would you change? I'm most interested in design ideas for the seatback/swing arm portion. I particularly like the addition of a "leaning post" top to this one and may incorporate that into my custom job: http://www.covingtonhendrix.com/rpsmods.jpg Any other modifications suggested? Thanks, Chris
elaelap	posted 06-25-2004 08:45 PM ET (US) Hey Chris, I just finished reassembling my RPS after taking the whole damn Chinese puzzle apart, sanding, SeaFin-ing, replacing the cushion (via Lois Hall, of course), cleaning up the legs, refitting, and calling Tom Clark for help in remembering how to get it all back together again. An earlier owner of my 'new' '88 Outrage 18 had the fine old idea of slapping dark stain all over the punky, chalky, unfinished teak, so the sanding and refinishing was loads of fun...somehow more like an excavation project than just a light surface buffing prior to oiling. Anyway...working that close with the thing for a couple of weeks made me appreciate the cleverness and strength of its design, and while I'm anything but a purist or restorationist, I don't know whether I'd mess about with its basic design very much. For example, at first I didn't like the big clunky handles on top of the teak back; now I appreciate them very much indeed as convenient handholds useful for moving about the deck at sea as well as handles to move the reversable seatback fore and aft. I also like the simple elegance of the two rod holders, one on either side of the handles. I notice in your photo link that both the handles and the rod holders are by necessity gone, and I really don't know whether that leaning post cushion would make up for their loss, at least for me. Another factor that I might consider before altering the design of the RPS is the possible effect on an eventual sale of the boat. It might be that no matter how well constructed and attractive the redesigned RPS turned out, many prospective buyers would be put off by a deviation from the classic design, especially if one were seeking top dollar for an otherwise classically restored Whaler in prime condition. Just some thoughts, Chris. I hate to be a stick-in-the-mud traditionalist--my personality is usually just the opposite--and I'm sure your design will be great. Go for it, my friend, and show the gloomy nay-sayers like me how wrong we are. Tony
Legobusier	posted 06-25-2004 09:31 PM ET (US) Dear Nobody, :) Thanks for the thoughs and the laugh Tony. You're probably correct, and I'm sure your opinion is not unique on this matter - it's obviously a well thought out design - after all it's certainly stood the test of time. As for the resale issue, I agree as well - except for the fact that I have NO seatback ata ll right now, so anything is an improvment. If I were to put the "leaning post" portion on the seat as in the photo, I think I would make it removable so it could be restored to it's original condition. I believe the one in the photo could be easily removed as well. Anyhow, thanks for the comments. Chris
Chuck Tribolet	posted 06-25-2004 09:46 PM ET (US) If by "leaning post" you mean padding the top of the seat back so you can sit on it: DO IT. I've got a to do item to track down some one who can upholster a piece to go on the top, but I need to drill the piece to patch the existing handle holes (handles came off a long time ago). Chuck
Owen Schultz	posted 06-25-2004 10:27 PM ET (US) Did you ever see the picture on this site of the guy who mounted the nice wooden drawer under his RPS? Man that was sweet. I saved the picture for my renovation. I'll email it to you.
Legobusier	posted 06-25-2004 10:32 PM ET (US) Thanks for the photos Owen. I had not seen that one. Looks like a nice mod - raised up the seat too I see. Good one to consider. Chris
Clark Roberts	posted 06-26-2004 06:55 AM ET (US) Lego, consider designing a "hard" stop for the seat back when using it as a leaning post! By this I mean something for the seat back to bottom-out on other than the seat cushion which eventually compresses and upholstry will suffer. Go for it! Clark.. SCN
jimp	posted 06-26-2004 07:42 AM ET (US) I just ordered a new teak back for the RPS as the white enclapsulated RPS seat on my brother's 1986 Montauk just had the bottom and lower sides rot out (spongy and I put my finger thru the bottom). The RPS needs some drain holes along the aft bottom joint to let water drain out. The white plastic prevented the teak from breathing and drying "naturally" and kept the water inside the lower part of the RPS. Years ago, I added 4 holes to my old 1982 Montauk years to drain the water. JimP
striper swiper	posted 06-26-2004 07:42 AM ET (US) My thought for my RPS is to leave it in the back position and build a padded wedge that rests on the seat and voila a leaning post! As long as my fat gut doesnt get in the way of the wheel, it should work.Striper.
Phil Tyson	posted 06-26-2004 10:57 AM ET (US) Chris - I like the idea of adding a leaning post addition to the top. Keeping in mind the originality, what you could do is install the handles and the rod holders as it is designed. For the leaning cushion, fabricate it so that the section inserts into the rod holders with recesses for the handles. While I know that is alot more work, it will give you a original RPS and a leaning cushion that can be removed. I am considering building a leaning post top but am waiting till after I raise the RPS. I agree with others that those handles are great. I use them everytime I go aft.
greyg8r	posted 06-26-2004 06:11 PM ET (US) I'm with Clark. I like the idea of a physical "stop" for the seatback other than the cushion, but it doesn't look easy (and probably isn't otherwise BW would have done it themselves.) What about drink holders? I think the top is wide enough that you could have indentations for beer, er, sodas. Richard
erik selis	posted 06-27-2004 08:59 AM ET (US) I am currently working on an RPS for my buddies 19-foot Outrage. I recently received the legs from Tom Clark (via the forum here)as well as the drawing of the pivot arms. The other drawings I got from Joe Kriz' s website. We are planning to raise the whole RPS about 2 inches by using a brown coloured nylon similar to the colour of the legs. The nylon will be machined to have the same profile as the leg cross-section at the bottom so it will seem to be one with the legs. The idea of raising the legs is first: making it more comfortable to sit behind the wheel and secondly, to fit a 72-quart cooler underneath. I have found stainless steel roller guides (one on each side) where the cooler will be mounted on. We will be using some kind of locking devise to keep the cooler in place while travelling. If we need to get into the cooler all we need to do is unlock the guides and slide out the cooler. I personally think that the space under the RPS can be used for storage in this way and if the job is done right then it won't have any influence on the value of the boat. When finished I will post some pictures, Erik
jimfar	posted 07-01-2004 02:40 PM ET (US) I raised my RPS and put a drawer underneath the seat. It also gives me easy access to the fill cap on my Pate 28 gal tank. I sure like the seat up higher both for standing (it offers support to my thighs) and seated. Check out my photos: http://www.farriscabinets.com/whaler.htm
erik selis	posted 07-01-2004 05:00 PM ET (US) Jimfar, you have made some very nice modifications to your boat. Great stuff. Erik
jimh	posted 07-02-2004 09:10 AM ET (US) On boats with internal fuel tanks, raising the RPS allows a cooler to be located beneath it.
Owen Schultz	posted 07-03-2004 01:07 AM ET (US) jimfar, you are the guy I was referring to that built the drawer under the RPS seat. Do you have any plans drawn for that drawer? I would like to build one or have one built for my Newport.
whalerajm	posted 07-03-2004 11:06 PM ET (US) I just finished raising my RPS on my 1975 Montauk to accomodate bigger gas tank...and raise seat higher...defimitely more comfortable... Check it out: ttp://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/whalerajm But I have to hand it to Jimfar, Risers with the larger tank and a drawer to boot...Awesome! I was feeling good about my project until I saw this...For my next project I think I'd like to hire Jimfar.
Whalerdan	posted 07-07-2004 03:10 PM ET (US) What are the PVC tubes sticking out the top for?
whalerajm	posted 07-07-2004 09:28 PM ET (US) WHALERDAN, The PVC pipe extemsion in the pole holders are really quite functional ... When I remove the PVC crossbar, the vertical PVC pipes extend the height of the pole holders giving me more clearance below the lines when walking/working in back of boat while trolling. With the crossbar they make a good handhold while standing, especially while underway. The bungee "wrap-around holds crossbar down so it doesn't pull up easily when you pull up on it. I also hang a boom box/cd player from a bungee on the crossbar...that way the boom box never gets knocked around or breaks loose. I've used it to hang foul weather gear when the weather clears for a while. With the cross bar out it's agreat place for a long handled net to get it up and out of the way... I could go on...it's a nice custom "feature" with unlimited uses. If anyone ever wants to copy it, I would recommend removeableble pins to lock it in place at base and all joints.