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Author Topic:   Evinrude Ficht, EMM Overtemp Code 25

offshore825 posted 07-28-2007 06:55 PM ET (US)
Hello all. I have a 2000, 200hp Evinrude Ficht with low hours. The engine has new plugs, new fuel filters (x2), new batteries, and I just did the lower unit fluid. Also, full fuel and full oil. In addition, I recently did a compression test as part of the survey prior to purchasing the boat earlier this month.
My first time out on the boat resulted in a check engine light and the boat entering the S.L.O.W mode after about 2 hour of running at a wide range of speeds between idle and 3500 RPM. After about 10 seconds in SLOW, the light went off and the boat functioned as normal only to again 20 minutes later end up at this condition. I stopped and let the engine cool for about a hour and left for home -15 minutes after this cool down period and again the check engine light / SLOW is on and continues to frequently come on and then off again even at RPMs as low as 1500, resulting in having to idle all the way home. Note that the Check Engine light finally did come on and stay on which allowed me to get a code, this code being code 25, EMM Over temperature.
Looking at past discussions, I assumed that I had a blockage in the EMM cooling line. However, by disconnecting the water output on the EMM, I can easily blow air through. In addition, by disconnecting at the water evaporator the water hose between the EMM and the water evaporator, I can easily blow air through the EMM and out this hose, however cannot blow air through the EMM with the water evaporator connected. I also using a long rod was able to poke down through the EMM water pipe and there appear to be no obstructions.
The water coming out back of the engine comes out very fast and in a continuous stream. The temperature of this water when the check engine comes warm to the touch, but not real hot.
With my little engine experience I’m stuck at this point. Should I be able to blow air through the emm and through the water evaporator with ease (as right now I cannot.) Perhaps the water evaporator is plugged up?
If the water is coming out of the back of the engine, would this indicate that I have good water flow through the EMM, or is irrelevant?
Could this be a sensor failure? I would not think so just based on the fact that the longer on the water, the more frequent the check engine comes on.
Overall this issue has kept me stuck at the dock and the summer is passing by quickly - any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Sal DiMercurio posted 07-28-2007 07:47 PM ET (US)
I have the exact same engine, year & hp.
Code 25 is EMM above expected range.
If you can blow or get a wire through the EMM with no restrictions, the Emm is not getting "water to it".
The water coming out of the pee hole just tells you the water pump is pumping, it has nothing to do with the EMM even though the EMM is connected to the pisser.
The water coming out of the pisser, comes "STRAIGHT FROM" the water pump, "BEFORE" the water go's into the engine, not afterwards, so that water should be the temp of the river or lake or whatever water your on, not the temp of the engine.
Your EMM water hose also connects to the pisser [ "T" connection ] , so you wouldn't know if the water went through the EMM, or just came straight from the water pump.
If all the passages "PAST" [ after ] the vapor seperator are clear, & your able to blow through them, or run a wire or thick weed eater string through them, than I would suspect your vapor seperator is clogged or broken.
Try starting the engine & letting it idle for a bit to give the vapor seperator a chance to send water to the EMM, & after a few minutes, disconnect the bottom hose [ water exit hose ] on the EMM to see if any water at all is going through the EMM.
The water intake is at the top of the EMM, & the exit is at the bottom.
You could also remove the water hose from the exit end of the EMM & put a portable hose on the exit end of the EMM & hold it off to the side, so water [ if it's pumping any through ] dosen't go on to the plugs or injectors.
It sometimes takes 1/2 minute or so before water go's through the vapor seperator, & through the EMM, so don't start the engine thinking water will instantly be going through the EMM.
When my EMM got clogged up & no water was going through it, the engine completely shut down, with no lights or gauges working, absolutely nothing worked, not even the trim gauge until the EMM cooled down, & than it would shut off again in about 3 minutes.
I was able to run a 10" - 12" long 1/4" drill bit down the EMM passage & clear the obstruction.
2 years later the EMM went south on me & I had DFI industries rebuild it for just under $700.
Just a word of caution, that engine & mine were prone to lower unit gears being either to hard or to soft, & many, many lower units went south causing lots of gear damage.
Mine cost $4,000 to replace.
My guess to fix your problem is, replace the vapor seperator, but that is just my guess.
You might concider bringing the boat to a Bombardier tech & see if they can test the vapor seperator to see if that is the problem.
Sal
Sal DiMercurio posted 07-28-2007 07:49 PM ET (US)
Sorry, that code 25 is,....EMM above temp range, not above range as I left out temp on the above post.
Sorry.
Sal
an86carrera posted 07-29-2007 01:03 AM ET (US)
offshore825, SalA,
DFI rocks, most honest guys I've dealt with.
Send EMM to them, they upgrade current limiters and flash the lastest software. Piece of mind, if it is a low hour engine of that vintage they can be great engines, 800 hrs here very happy, BUY the software!
Sal could be right I have never had that problem.
Good Luck,
Len
Peter posted 07-29-2007 07:53 AM ET (US)
I didn't realize there were two threads for this topic. The one in the Performance section is likely to be deleted or merged into this one. Here is some advice that I provided in the parallel thread:
A clogged cooling passage in the vapor separator cannister (its not a "water evaporator") will cause a Code 25 because its cooled in series with the EMM. Most likely this is your problem.
Here is how I have "backflushed" the vapor separator to clear it when the motor has pulled in some silt causing a clog (Check engine lite - Code 25). Take the left (port side) lower engine pan off (4 screws) to provide better access to the vapor separator. Disconnect both cooling hoses from the vapor separator. Also, disconnect the end of the cooling hose that is attached to the motor leg at the brass barbed fitting. You will use this hose to introduce water to each of the vapor separator fittings.
Now take the pointed end of a nylon tie strap that is about the same with as the inside diameter of the vapor separator fittings and poke around in the fittings of the vapor separator to dislodge anything that might be obstructing water flow at the fittings. Then with the motor tilted up, connect the lower hose to the lower fitting and pour water into the hose. Then move the hose to the upper fitting and do the same. Repeat this several times and then try poking the nylon tie strap again. At some point, if you are lucky and clear the obstruction, water should easily dribble out of the upper fitting when you pour water into the hose connected to the lower fitting. When the cooling passage is clear, it will not be difficult to blow air through the hose connected to either of the fittings (less effort than blowing up a fresh balloon).
Additional comment:
Based on Seahorse comment in the other thread, I want to be clear that when I say "blow air through" that is using your mouth NOT an air compressor.
offshore825 posted 07-29-2007 10:30 AM ET (US)
Sal, Len, Peter,
Thank you for your quick response and the knowledge that you bring forth in this forum. I will further inspect the vapor separator cooling lines today and will let you know how I make out one way or another. I appreciate the help. Thanks.
Sal DiMercurio posted 07-29-2007 10:44 AM ET (US)
Peter, your right.
I also didn't see the thread on the performance page until after I posted.
At least were on the same track.
By the way, my engine is at 1600 hours now, & running absolutly beautiful,....knock on wood,....probably shouldn't have mentioned it.
Run "Carbon Gaurd" in every tank full of fuel, & Regular intevals of "Engine Tuner" at 50 hours.......don't forget to wax the hood, lower coweling, & leg, seems to run much better when you do.
Sal
offshore825 posted 07-30-2007 05:51 AM ET (US)
All -
Yesterday I was able to unplug the vapor separator and the engine ran great. My gut feel is to replace the vapor separator altogether however as of today the boat runs well. Thank you for all of your help!
Peter posted 07-30-2007 08:18 AM ET (US)
Good to hear that it worked. I would not replace the vapor separator unless you have a persistent clog that cannot be cleared.
If you are not doing so, it would be prudent to flush your cooling system with the hose through the flush port after each use. I use T-H Marine's quick connect/disconned adapter to make it convenient. See www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details. cgi?pdesc=T_H_Marine_Quick_Flush_For_OMC&r=view&i=27421&aID= .
offshore825 posted 08-02-2007 08:04 PM ET (US)
Peter,
Thanks for your recommendation. Regarding this process, how long should you flush the engine? Trimmed up or down? Running or off? I apologize for the extent of my questions, however I am rather new to outboard engines in general.
To All,
I talked to an engine tech at an Evinrude dealer today to see what work has been done to my engine to date under the prior owner (if any) as I’ve read about people having problems with this particular engine regarding fuel leaks. See http://my.boatus.com/consumer/200225hpfichtfires.asp. However, the tech denies knowing of any issue as described in this article citing that people either love this engine or hate it, however he mentioned that a lot of people are replacing their fuel return fitting as with the higher ethanol content in today’s gas, as I understand it, this part is failing and thus leaking fuel on the engine.
Anyone with a ficht have this problem or hear of this? According to the dealer, the only work done to my engine today that was recorded was the “PDS Strap” which I have no idea what that is but it doesn’t exactly sound related to the fuel system.
Thanks.
Peter posted 08-03-2007 07:46 AM ET (US)
5 minutes is probably enough but I generally just leave the motors flushing while I'm washing the boat down.
They could be flushing for as long as 30 minutes.
The 2000 model year Ficht 200/225s were involved in a recall campaign to fix fuel leakage problems. You might consider calling BRP's customer support services at 847-689-7090 to see whether they have information about whether your motor had the necessary upgrades performed. When you call you will need to be able to tell them the serial number and model number of your motor so they can look it up on their system.
seahorse posted 08-03-2007 08:00 AM ET (US)
Offshore,
The PDS strap fix was the recall that Peter just commented about. I consisted of stronger bolts and heavy duty "hold downs" to keep the injectors from coming loose.
The engine history the dealer told you about is only what was recorded with the factory during the warranty period. It does not tell what was done to the motor by other dealers, itinerant mechanics, do-it-yourselfers, etc. over the years.
Luckalee posted 09-02-2010 08:26 PM ET (US)
If your 200 is like my 115 the schader fuel pressure test fitting can pop right out of the fitting and cause fuel under pressure to spray the inside of the cowling. Mine did! , you can replace it with a line that has a plugged fitting.
Peter posted 09-03-2010 12:26 PM ET (US)
Advice: Anybody that has a Ficht that still has the schrader valve fuel pressure test port and are in a location where E10 fuel is used should strongly consider having that replaced because there is a high likelihood that it will eventually fail.

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Author	Topic: Evinrude Ficht, EMM Overtemp Code 25
offshore825	posted 07-28-2007 06:55 PM ET (US) Hello all. I have a 2000, 200hp Evinrude Ficht with low hours. The engine has new plugs, new fuel filters (x2), new batteries, and I just did the lower unit fluid. Also, full fuel and full oil. In addition, I recently did a compression test as part of the survey prior to purchasing the boat earlier this month. My first time out on the boat resulted in a check engine light and the boat entering the S.L.O.W mode after about 2 hour of running at a wide range of speeds between idle and 3500 RPM. After about 10 seconds in SLOW, the light went off and the boat functioned as normal only to again 20 minutes later end up at this condition. I stopped and let the engine cool for about a hour and left for home -15 minutes after this cool down period and again the check engine light / SLOW is on and continues to frequently come on and then off again even at RPMs as low as 1500, resulting in having to idle all the way home. Note that the Check Engine light finally did come on and stay on which allowed me to get a code, this code being code 25, EMM Over temperature. Looking at past discussions, I assumed that I had a blockage in the EMM cooling line. However, by disconnecting the water output on the EMM, I can easily blow air through. In addition, by disconnecting at the water evaporator the water hose between the EMM and the water evaporator, I can easily blow air through the EMM and out this hose, however cannot blow air through the EMM with the water evaporator connected. I also using a long rod was able to poke down through the EMM water pipe and there appear to be no obstructions. The water coming out back of the engine comes out very fast and in a continuous stream. The temperature of this water when the check engine comes warm to the touch, but not real hot. With my little engine experience I’m stuck at this point. Should I be able to blow air through the emm and through the water evaporator with ease (as right now I cannot.) Perhaps the water evaporator is plugged up? If the water is coming out of the back of the engine, would this indicate that I have good water flow through the EMM, or is irrelevant? Could this be a sensor failure? I would not think so just based on the fact that the longer on the water, the more frequent the check engine comes on. Overall this issue has kept me stuck at the dock and the summer is passing by quickly - any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 07-28-2007 07:47 PM ET (US) I have the exact same engine, year & hp. Code 25 is EMM above expected range. If you can blow or get a wire through the EMM with no restrictions, the Emm is not getting "water to it". The water coming out of the pee hole just tells you the water pump is pumping, it has nothing to do with the EMM even though the EMM is connected to the pisser. The water coming out of the pisser, comes "STRAIGHT FROM" the water pump, "BEFORE" the water go's into the engine, not afterwards, so that water should be the temp of the river or lake or whatever water your on, not the temp of the engine. Your EMM water hose also connects to the pisser [ "T" connection ] , so you wouldn't know if the water went through the EMM, or just came straight from the water pump. If all the passages "PAST" [ after ] the vapor seperator are clear, & your able to blow through them, or run a wire or thick weed eater string through them, than I would suspect your vapor seperator is clogged or broken. Try starting the engine & letting it idle for a bit to give the vapor seperator a chance to send water to the EMM, & after a few minutes, disconnect the bottom hose [ water exit hose ] on the EMM to see if any water at all is going through the EMM. The water intake is at the top of the EMM, & the exit is at the bottom. You could also remove the water hose from the exit end of the EMM & put a portable hose on the exit end of the EMM & hold it off to the side, so water [ if it's pumping any through ] dosen't go on to the plugs or injectors. It sometimes takes 1/2 minute or so before water go's through the vapor seperator, & through the EMM, so don't start the engine thinking water will instantly be going through the EMM. When my EMM got clogged up & no water was going through it, the engine completely shut down, with no lights or gauges working, absolutely nothing worked, not even the trim gauge until the EMM cooled down, & than it would shut off again in about 3 minutes. I was able to run a 10" - 12" long 1/4" drill bit down the EMM passage & clear the obstruction. 2 years later the EMM went south on me & I had DFI industries rebuild it for just under $700. Just a word of caution, that engine & mine were prone to lower unit gears being either to hard or to soft, & many, many lower units went south causing lots of gear damage. Mine cost $4,000 to replace. My guess to fix your problem is, replace the vapor seperator, but that is just my guess. You might concider bringing the boat to a Bombardier tech & see if they can test the vapor seperator to see if that is the problem. Sal
Sal DiMercurio	posted 07-28-2007 07:49 PM ET (US) Sorry, that code 25 is,....EMM above temp range, not above range as I left out temp on the above post. Sorry. Sal
an86carrera	posted 07-29-2007 01:03 AM ET (US) offshore825, SalA, DFI rocks, most honest guys I've dealt with. Send EMM to them, they upgrade current limiters and flash the lastest software. Piece of mind, if it is a low hour engine of that vintage they can be great engines, 800 hrs here very happy, BUY the software! Sal could be right I have never had that problem. Good Luck, Len
Peter	posted 07-29-2007 07:53 AM ET (US) I didn't realize there were two threads for this topic. The one in the Performance section is likely to be deleted or merged into this one. Here is some advice that I provided in the parallel thread: A clogged cooling passage in the vapor separator cannister (its not a "water evaporator") will cause a Code 25 because its cooled in series with the EMM. Most likely this is your problem. Here is how I have "backflushed" the vapor separator to clear it when the motor has pulled in some silt causing a clog (Check engine lite - Code 25). Take the left (port side) lower engine pan off (4 screws) to provide better access to the vapor separator. Disconnect both cooling hoses from the vapor separator. Also, disconnect the end of the cooling hose that is attached to the motor leg at the brass barbed fitting. You will use this hose to introduce water to each of the vapor separator fittings. Now take the pointed end of a nylon tie strap that is about the same with as the inside diameter of the vapor separator fittings and poke around in the fittings of the vapor separator to dislodge anything that might be obstructing water flow at the fittings. Then with the motor tilted up, connect the lower hose to the lower fitting and pour water into the hose. Then move the hose to the upper fitting and do the same. Repeat this several times and then try poking the nylon tie strap again. At some point, if you are lucky and clear the obstruction, water should easily dribble out of the upper fitting when you pour water into the hose connected to the lower fitting. When the cooling passage is clear, it will not be difficult to blow air through the hose connected to either of the fittings (less effort than blowing up a fresh balloon). Additional comment: Based on Seahorse comment in the other thread, I want to be clear that when I say "blow air through" that is using your mouth NOT an air compressor.
offshore825	posted 07-29-2007 10:30 AM ET (US) Sal, Len, Peter, Thank you for your quick response and the knowledge that you bring forth in this forum. I will further inspect the vapor separator cooling lines today and will let you know how I make out one way or another. I appreciate the help. Thanks.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 07-29-2007 10:44 AM ET (US) Peter, your right. I also didn't see the thread on the performance page until after I posted. At least were on the same track. By the way, my engine is at 1600 hours now, & running absolutly beautiful,....knock on wood,....probably shouldn't have mentioned it. Run "Carbon Gaurd" in every tank full of fuel, & Regular intevals of "Engine Tuner" at 50 hours.......don't forget to wax the hood, lower coweling, & leg, seems to run much better when you do. Sal
offshore825	posted 07-30-2007 05:51 AM ET (US) All - Yesterday I was able to unplug the vapor separator and the engine ran great. My gut feel is to replace the vapor separator altogether however as of today the boat runs well. Thank you for all of your help!
Peter	posted 07-30-2007 08:18 AM ET (US) Good to hear that it worked. I would not replace the vapor separator unless you have a persistent clog that cannot be cleared. If you are not doing so, it would be prudent to flush your cooling system with the hose through the flush port after each use. I use T-H Marine's quick connect/disconned adapter to make it convenient. See www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details. cgi?pdesc=T_H_Marine_Quick_Flush_For_OMC&r=view&i=27421&aID= .
offshore825	posted 08-02-2007 08:04 PM ET (US) Peter, Thanks for your recommendation. Regarding this process, how long should you flush the engine? Trimmed up or down? Running or off? I apologize for the extent of my questions, however I am rather new to outboard engines in general. To All, I talked to an engine tech at an Evinrude dealer today to see what work has been done to my engine to date under the prior owner (if any) as I’ve read about people having problems with this particular engine regarding fuel leaks. See http://my.boatus.com/consumer/200225hpfichtfires.asp. However, the tech denies knowing of any issue as described in this article citing that people either love this engine or hate it, however he mentioned that a lot of people are replacing their fuel return fitting as with the higher ethanol content in today’s gas, as I understand it, this part is failing and thus leaking fuel on the engine. Anyone with a ficht have this problem or hear of this? According to the dealer, the only work done to my engine today that was recorded was the “PDS Strap” which I have no idea what that is but it doesn’t exactly sound related to the fuel system. Thanks.
Peter	posted 08-03-2007 07:46 AM ET (US) 5 minutes is probably enough but I generally just leave the motors flushing while I'm washing the boat down. They could be flushing for as long as 30 minutes. The 2000 model year Ficht 200/225s were involved in a recall campaign to fix fuel leakage problems. You might consider calling BRP's customer support services at 847-689-7090 to see whether they have information about whether your motor had the necessary upgrades performed. When you call you will need to be able to tell them the serial number and model number of your motor so they can look it up on their system.
seahorse	posted 08-03-2007 08:00 AM ET (US) Offshore, The PDS strap fix was the recall that Peter just commented about. I consisted of stronger bolts and heavy duty "hold downs" to keep the injectors from coming loose. The engine history the dealer told you about is only what was recorded with the factory during the warranty period. It does not tell what was done to the motor by other dealers, itinerant mechanics, do-it-yourselfers, etc. over the years.
Luckalee	posted 09-02-2010 08:26 PM ET (US) If your 200 is like my 115 the schader fuel pressure test fitting can pop right out of the fitting and cause fuel under pressure to spray the inside of the cowling. Mine did! , you can replace it with a line that has a plugged fitting.
Peter	posted 09-03-2010 12:26 PM ET (US) Advice: Anybody that has a Ficht that still has the schrader valve fuel pressure test port and are in a location where E10 fuel is used should strongly consider having that replaced because there is a high likelihood that it will eventually fail.