Lubricants or Solvents to Unseize a Seized Outboard

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Author Topic:   Lubricants or Solvents to Unseize a Seized Outboard

fina posted 01-28-2010 10:49 PM ET (US)
I last ran [a Tohatsu 60-HP outboard] motor about 5 months ago. My mechanic just went to witerize [the Tohatsu 60-HP motor] and found that it was seized. The two bottom spark plugs had rust all around the inside.
He told me to try filling each cylinder with kerosene to begin trying to unseize the engine. Any other suggestions?
R T M posted 01-29-2010 06:52 AM ET (US)
Did your mechanic say how he thinks the water got in the bottom two cylinders. With old motors that haven`t been run in years I found that squirting a liberal amount of Blaster into the cylinders with the motor ar a horizontal position with the plugs pointed up, letting it sit for a day and then taking a wooden dowel about 6-8 inches long and thick enough to just fit into the spark plug hole and hitting the dowel with a hammer, will most times free the pistons up and the motor will turn freely. Don`t know if this method will work on rusted cylinder walls though.
Did he find the motor was stuck by turning the flywheel by hand or by using the electric starter?
rich/Binkie
wezie posted 01-29-2010 08:32 AM ET (US)
Have you removed the head??
Seems that rust around the inside of the plugs, would lead to the thought that there is rust inside the cylinders.
If so, there is rust/damage already; and moving the pistons will only score the cylinders more.
Might be time to open it up and see what is really in there. Might find some parts of Hoffa.
Putting lube into the cylinders may work. I think of this as a last resort for a smaller engine or an engine of low value.
Good Luck!
fina posted 01-29-2010 09:32 AM ET (US)
he thinks it was either a blown gasket when we last ran it or water in the gas.
his idea was to use kerosene to free it up. He found it was seized by trying to turn the flywheel.
The motor was last run in June on fresh water ear muffs.
weekendwarrior posted 01-29-2010 10:55 AM ET (US)
If the motor isn't real valuable to you the the method of soaking the inside with lube and trying to free it might work to get it going. But as mentioned above, if the cylinders and/or bearings are rusty then that will not be good for their longevity. The motor is frozen so you know there is rust somewhere. The safest method is to take it apart, check the bearings for rust and run a honing stone over any rusty cylinders to clean them up. Bottle brush home is easier to get a good result if you're not experienced with a hone tool. If it's not too bad then maybe that is enough to get you back up and running without too much damage. If the cylinders are pitted then boring may be the best solution, hopefully yours aren't that bad. Good luck and keep us informed.
fina posted 01-29-2010 02:54 PM ET (US)
It's a 1997 60HP and was in nice condition.
How much damage can take place over 6 months if it was fresh water?
deepwater posted 01-29-2010 05:35 PM ET (US)
Use Marvel Mystery Oil,,Let it set over night and use a heat gun to warm the whole head,,Rock the flywheel back and forth untill its loose than turn over by hand slowley,,If you feel any sticky spots rock the wheel back and forth over the sticky spot,,Just be easy about it
fina posted 01-30-2010 03:57 PM ET (US)
Deepwater
Do you think Marvel is betterv than kerosene?
I'm going to do it today or tomorrow so let me know
thx
deepwater posted 01-30-2010 08:32 PM ET (US)
Yes I do ,,I can only go on what I have read and I have used it for 40+ years in everything and its never let me down
fina posted 02-01-2010 04:56 PM ET (US)
I poured Marvel in the bottom and middle cylinders.
The bottom held the oil so far but the middle did not. The oil leaked right out through the lower unit.
What should I do next?
deepwater posted 02-01-2010 07:27 PM ET (US)
That cylinder could be on an exhaust stroke so its open ,,try and turn the flywheel with the plugs out gently by hand and if it turns put a large box wrench on it and run it around several times
deepwater posted 02-01-2010 07:29 PM ET (US)
And stand off to the side while turning or you could get a chest full of blood red marvel oil
fina posted 02-01-2010 11:03 PM ET (US)
I'll let it soak in for a couple of days.
Is there any way to keep oil on that middle cylinder?
deepwater posted 02-02-2010 05:02 AM ET (US)
If that cylinder "is" on an exhaust cycle the majority will run out,,If you get a cheep spray bottle and set it to mist once inserted in the spark plug hole you can get a good bit around the whole cylinder walls,,Until the fly wheel is turned "gently" past the exhaust port it will not hold oil,,Have you tried moving the flywheel at all
fina posted 02-02-2010 02:47 PM ET (US)
I haven't tried moving the flywheel yet. I'll try spraying for a few days and let the other one soak.
I'll try turning it this weekend but first I'll heat the block up somewhat with a heat gun.
Thanks for your advice and please continue.
deepwater posted 02-09-2010 04:27 AM ET (US)
I know the weather has been bad but did ya get a chance to wiggle the fly wheel
fina posted 02-10-2010 07:54 PM ET (US)
not yet. I've been squirting Marvel oil in just about every day.
I'm going to give it one more week. I'll keep you posted.
tom976 posted 02-10-2010 08:22 PM ET (US)
I had a similar problem with a yamaha ox66. I ended up having low compression on the one corroded cylinder. I removed the head and smoothed the walls of the corroded cylinder with a special type of emery cloth (my dad was a machinist so he gave me what to use) Anyhow, I removed all the corrosion and the motor went from 85 psi to 120 (like the rest) and all was well so far.
I got something going on it there to allow it to rust. I might just be worth it to pull the head and see what really is going on it there. You would want to smooth out the cylinders and clean the heck out of the rings so they don't stick.
tom976 posted 02-11-2010 10:35 AM ET (US)
One more thing.... If the plugs are what was in there the last time the motor ran, take a look at them closely. If some are a little oily and dirty they were firing ok. If the look clean and new then they have been steam cleaned by a water leak into the cylinder the last time it was run.
The piston will look sort of unusally new too. Hot steam gets rid of carbon deposites nicely. Also if you pull off the head there wont be any (or very little) carbon deposites inside the the head.
fina posted 04-24-2010 08:06 PM ET (US)
soaking in Marvel oil worked!
I soaked it and kept adding to the cylinders once a week.
Today I put a wrench on the fly wheel and applied gentle pressure and the flywheel moved. I rocked is back and forth and now it spins nicely.
I have it soaking some more. What should my next step be?
tom976 posted 04-24-2010 08:30 PM ET (US)
Put the engine upright and start her up. A compression test might be in order to make sure the numbers are all in the right neighborhood. Just about all engines run great when they are out of the water, once in you'll quickly notice power loss and if things aren't quiet right.
fina posted 04-24-2010 10:47 PM ET (US)
I am not sure if the reason that it seized was due to water in the gas or possibly a head gasket leak.
It had been run last June, and it sat till about this past November and that is when I realized that it was seized.
Do you still recommend running it right away?
dlschutz posted 04-28-2010 08:44 AM ET (US)
Late entry into commentary......
Advice on Marvel is spot on, have used it several times for exact same application. I have an older OMC 20 that was seized solid from inproper storage 8+ years.
Procedure is correct, soak, soak, soak, heat, soak; Wrench on fly wheel, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle...
Generally not a bad idea to remove head, heat and patience... better access to cyl walls, easy to do, easy to inspect, new gasket at same time. Also opportunity to carefully clean up cyl walls (piston at bottom of stroke)keep it clean, don't let tools or small animals drop in.
For anyone with similar issues would advise against hammer and dowel. Not a good alternative to oil, heat and patience... fair chance to crack or break rings causing much more damage. I admit to having done this (head off)with a small OB salt water submerged. Got it loose finaly after torch. Crank, rods and bearings welded together and looked remarkably like underwater salvage of ancient flintlock pistol. Pistons are now ashtrays.
When you get it all cleaned up (acetone and compressed air) give cyl walls VERY light film of oil and hand turn it with plugs out a couple of revs. Make certain there is no mechanical noise or binding.
Check compression next before you attempt to run it. Cyls within 12psi or so?
Light it up, It will likely fire right up, run it in for a couple of min.(vary rpm, never, never full throttle out of the water EVEN with muffs)....
You should be good to go.
In closing, winterize and fog it yourself. No one can/will do a better job than the guy who owns it...
Good luck, I hope your results are sucessful.... Dave

Bensjoy posted 04-28-2010 07:54 PM ET (US)
I saw an advertisement in the March/April BoatUS Magazine for a product called "Engine Release" which was formulated to dissolve corrosion and free up seized pistons. Their website is: www.enginerelease.com
Tohsgib posted 04-29-2010 11:18 AM ET (US)
Fina if it rusted that bad, the crank might have rust on it as well. I would run it ASAP but not on muffs. Just get a strong mixture of oil/gas into her, run for 10-15 seconds and shut it down. You won't hurt the engine without water. Might take some life off the waterpump but who cares....you need oil on those crank bearings NOW.
dlschutz posted 04-29-2010 12:47 PM ET (US)
I agree with Tohsgib on that point although don't understand why you wouldn't run water through it...
In order to lube internals and help polish off any rust I'd suggest you double up on oil in fuel mix... I'd rather have an oily carb or injector than a frozen or scortched bearing........
Dave
Tohsgib posted 04-29-2010 02:09 PM ET (US)
Because the water will just get back inside the engine if run on muffs. Until you find out what was the cause, don't ingest more H2O. I doubt it was water in fuel because you would have water in your carbs and in all 3 cyls. It has to be a head gasket/water jacket gasket, or something major which I doubt because it is in 2 cyls, not 1.
dlschutz posted 04-29-2010 03:49 PM ET (US)
I vote head gasket/warped or cracked head, possibly broken or stripped head bolt(s)..... Compression check would rule this out. I doubt it was water in fuel from hygroscopic absorbtion.
Can't really think of any other reasonable explanation: its either through induction or the combustion chamber, or......... the block could be cracked?
Dave

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Author	Topic: Lubricants or Solvents to Unseize a Seized Outboard
fina	posted 01-28-2010 10:49 PM ET (US) I last ran [a Tohatsu 60-HP outboard] motor about 5 months ago. My mechanic just went to witerize [the Tohatsu 60-HP motor] and found that it was seized. The two bottom spark plugs had rust all around the inside. He told me to try filling each cylinder with kerosene to begin trying to unseize the engine. Any other suggestions?
R T M	posted 01-29-2010 06:52 AM ET (US) Did your mechanic say how he thinks the water got in the bottom two cylinders. With old motors that haven`t been run in years I found that squirting a liberal amount of Blaster into the cylinders with the motor ar a horizontal position with the plugs pointed up, letting it sit for a day and then taking a wooden dowel about 6-8 inches long and thick enough to just fit into the spark plug hole and hitting the dowel with a hammer, will most times free the pistons up and the motor will turn freely. Don`t know if this method will work on rusted cylinder walls though. Did he find the motor was stuck by turning the flywheel by hand or by using the electric starter? rich/Binkie
wezie	posted 01-29-2010 08:32 AM ET (US) Have you removed the head?? Seems that rust around the inside of the plugs, would lead to the thought that there is rust inside the cylinders. If so, there is rust/damage already; and moving the pistons will only score the cylinders more. Might be time to open it up and see what is really in there. Might find some parts of Hoffa. Putting lube into the cylinders may work. I think of this as a last resort for a smaller engine or an engine of low value. Good Luck!
fina	posted 01-29-2010 09:32 AM ET (US) he thinks it was either a blown gasket when we last ran it or water in the gas. his idea was to use kerosene to free it up. He found it was seized by trying to turn the flywheel. The motor was last run in June on fresh water ear muffs.
weekendwarrior	posted 01-29-2010 10:55 AM ET (US) If the motor isn't real valuable to you the the method of soaking the inside with lube and trying to free it might work to get it going. But as mentioned above, if the cylinders and/or bearings are rusty then that will not be good for their longevity. The motor is frozen so you know there is rust somewhere. The safest method is to take it apart, check the bearings for rust and run a honing stone over any rusty cylinders to clean them up. Bottle brush home is easier to get a good result if you're not experienced with a hone tool. If it's not too bad then maybe that is enough to get you back up and running without too much damage. If the cylinders are pitted then boring may be the best solution, hopefully yours aren't that bad. Good luck and keep us informed.
fina	posted 01-29-2010 02:54 PM ET (US) It's a 1997 60HP and was in nice condition. How much damage can take place over 6 months if it was fresh water?
deepwater	posted 01-29-2010 05:35 PM ET (US) Use Marvel Mystery Oil,,Let it set over night and use a heat gun to warm the whole head,,Rock the flywheel back and forth untill its loose than turn over by hand slowley,,If you feel any sticky spots rock the wheel back and forth over the sticky spot,,Just be easy about it
fina	posted 01-30-2010 03:57 PM ET (US) Deepwater Do you think Marvel is betterv than kerosene? I'm going to do it today or tomorrow so let me know thx
deepwater	posted 01-30-2010 08:32 PM ET (US) Yes I do ,,I can only go on what I have read and I have used it for 40+ years in everything and its never let me down
fina	posted 02-01-2010 04:56 PM ET (US) I poured Marvel in the bottom and middle cylinders. The bottom held the oil so far but the middle did not. The oil leaked right out through the lower unit. What should I do next?
deepwater	posted 02-01-2010 07:27 PM ET (US) That cylinder could be on an exhaust stroke so its open ,,try and turn the flywheel with the plugs out gently by hand and if it turns put a large box wrench on it and run it around several times
deepwater	posted 02-01-2010 07:29 PM ET (US) And stand off to the side while turning or you could get a chest full of blood red marvel oil
fina	posted 02-01-2010 11:03 PM ET (US) I'll let it soak in for a couple of days. Is there any way to keep oil on that middle cylinder?
deepwater	posted 02-02-2010 05:02 AM ET (US) If that cylinder "is" on an exhaust cycle the majority will run out,,If you get a cheep spray bottle and set it to mist once inserted in the spark plug hole you can get a good bit around the whole cylinder walls,,Until the fly wheel is turned "gently" past the exhaust port it will not hold oil,,Have you tried moving the flywheel at all
fina	posted 02-02-2010 02:47 PM ET (US) I haven't tried moving the flywheel yet. I'll try spraying for a few days and let the other one soak. I'll try turning it this weekend but first I'll heat the block up somewhat with a heat gun. Thanks for your advice and please continue.
deepwater	posted 02-09-2010 04:27 AM ET (US) I know the weather has been bad but did ya get a chance to wiggle the fly wheel
fina	posted 02-10-2010 07:54 PM ET (US) not yet. I've been squirting Marvel oil in just about every day. I'm going to give it one more week. I'll keep you posted.
tom976	posted 02-10-2010 08:22 PM ET (US) I had a similar problem with a yamaha ox66. I ended up having low compression on the one corroded cylinder. I removed the head and smoothed the walls of the corroded cylinder with a special type of emery cloth (my dad was a machinist so he gave me what to use) Anyhow, I removed all the corrosion and the motor went from 85 psi to 120 (like the rest) and all was well so far. I got something going on it there to allow it to rust. I might just be worth it to pull the head and see what really is going on it there. You would want to smooth out the cylinders and clean the heck out of the rings so they don't stick.
tom976	posted 02-11-2010 10:35 AM ET (US) One more thing.... If the plugs are what was in there the last time the motor ran, take a look at them closely. If some are a little oily and dirty they were firing ok. If the look clean and new then they have been steam cleaned by a water leak into the cylinder the last time it was run. The piston will look sort of unusally new too. Hot steam gets rid of carbon deposites nicely. Also if you pull off the head there wont be any (or very little) carbon deposites inside the the head.
fina	posted 04-24-2010 08:06 PM ET (US) soaking in Marvel oil worked! I soaked it and kept adding to the cylinders once a week. Today I put a wrench on the fly wheel and applied gentle pressure and the flywheel moved. I rocked is back and forth and now it spins nicely. I have it soaking some more. What should my next step be?
tom976	posted 04-24-2010 08:30 PM ET (US) Put the engine upright and start her up. A compression test might be in order to make sure the numbers are all in the right neighborhood. Just about all engines run great when they are out of the water, once in you'll quickly notice power loss and if things aren't quiet right.
fina	posted 04-24-2010 10:47 PM ET (US) I am not sure if the reason that it seized was due to water in the gas or possibly a head gasket leak. It had been run last June, and it sat till about this past November and that is when I realized that it was seized. Do you still recommend running it right away?
dlschutz	posted 04-28-2010 08:44 AM ET (US) Late entry into commentary...... Advice on Marvel is spot on, have used it several times for exact same application. I have an older OMC 20 that was seized solid from inproper storage 8+ years. Procedure is correct, soak, soak, soak, heat, soak; Wrench on fly wheel, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle... Generally not a bad idea to remove head, heat and patience... better access to cyl walls, easy to do, easy to inspect, new gasket at same time. Also opportunity to carefully clean up cyl walls (piston at bottom of stroke)keep it clean, don't let tools or small animals drop in. For anyone with similar issues would advise against hammer and dowel. Not a good alternative to oil, heat and patience... fair chance to crack or break rings causing much more damage. I admit to having done this (head off)with a small OB salt water submerged. Got it loose finaly after torch. Crank, rods and bearings welded together and looked remarkably like underwater salvage of ancient flintlock pistol. Pistons are now ashtrays. When you get it all cleaned up (acetone and compressed air) give cyl walls VERY light film of oil and hand turn it with plugs out a couple of revs. Make certain there is no mechanical noise or binding. Check compression next before you attempt to run it. Cyls within 12psi or so? Light it up, It will likely fire right up, run it in for a couple of min.(vary rpm, never, never full throttle out of the water EVEN with muffs).... You should be good to go. In closing, winterize and fog it yourself. No one can/will do a better job than the guy who owns it... Good luck, I hope your results are sucessful.... Dave
Bensjoy	posted 04-28-2010 07:54 PM ET (US) I saw an advertisement in the March/April BoatUS Magazine for a product called "Engine Release" which was formulated to dissolve corrosion and free up seized pistons. Their website is: www.enginerelease.com
Tohsgib	posted 04-29-2010 11:18 AM ET (US) Fina if it rusted that bad, the crank might have rust on it as well. I would run it ASAP but not on muffs. Just get a strong mixture of oil/gas into her, run for 10-15 seconds and shut it down. You won't hurt the engine without water. Might take some life off the waterpump but who cares....you need oil on those crank bearings NOW.
dlschutz	posted 04-29-2010 12:47 PM ET (US) I agree with Tohsgib on that point although don't understand why you wouldn't run water through it... In order to lube internals and help polish off any rust I'd suggest you double up on oil in fuel mix... I'd rather have an oily carb or injector than a frozen or scortched bearing........ Dave
Tohsgib	posted 04-29-2010 02:09 PM ET (US) Because the water will just get back inside the engine if run on muffs. Until you find out what was the cause, don't ingest more H2O. I doubt it was water in fuel because you would have water in your carbs and in all 3 cyls. It has to be a head gasket/water jacket gasket, or something major which I doubt because it is in 2 cyls, not 1.
dlschutz	posted 04-29-2010 03:49 PM ET (US) I vote head gasket/warped or cracked head, possibly broken or stripped head bolt(s)..... Compression check would rule this out. I doubt it was water in fuel from hygroscopic absorbtion. Can't really think of any other reasonable explanation: its either through induction or the combustion chamber, or......... the block could be cracked? Dave