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Author Topic:   Adhesives For Bonding KING StarBoard

whalernut207 posted 10-08-2010 09:12 PM ET (US)
I have recently cut out the [cockpit deck] in a 1984 [Boston Whaler MONTAUK]. [S]omeone had screwed different things down over the years and never sealed the holes. [N]eedless to say the floor was rotted out! [I] have replaced the plywood with [KING StarBoard] material, thinking [I] would never have to do this again. [W]hat [I] didn[']t realize is that fiberglass won[']t stick to this stuff very well. [Give me] tips on how to make the fiberglass stick to [KING StarBoard]. My idea was to fiberglass over it to make it waterproof, then use spray-in bedliner instead of gel coat. [A]nyone care to comment? [O]pen to ideas.
Jeff posted 10-08-2010 09:24 PM ET (US)
KING StarBoard will not adhere to resin encapsulated fiberglass period. If you are looking for a rot-proof solution use Nida-cora.
Also, I would highly recommended against the spray-in bedliner unless you are totally and completely not worried about resale. Consider an Awlgrip roll in non-skid instead.
jimh posted 10-08-2010 11:10 PM ET (US)
Material like KING StarBoard is a plastic material that is difficult to bond. You need to use special adhesives. Polyester resin is a poor adhesive to begin with, so it will not be a good adhesive to use to bond to KING StarBoard. Even epoxy, a much better adhesive than polyester resin, will not get much adhesion to KING StarBoard.
Jeff posted 10-08-2010 11:19 PM ET (US)
When I did the 22 Outrage floor 5 years ago I talked extensively to West Systems and they recommended not to bond starboard with their product as it would separate for the starboard. However, after a discussion with another fine member of this board I was made aware of West Systems G/Flex. Apparently it is able to adhere to and Bond with HDPE Plastics though King Starboard is not directly called out.
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/west-system-launches-g-flex-epoxy/
With that said I would still recommend Nida-Core as it will likely bond the best with your resins and it would be a huge weight savings over the Starboard.
http://nida-core.com/english/
whalernut207 posted 10-09-2010 10:46 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the input. [S]ince [I] already have the [KING Starboard] cut and laid in, [I] will likely first try the WEST System epoxy. I will let you know how it goes.
Newtauk1 posted 10-09-2010 07:43 PM ET (US)
I dont think G-flex will work. It is also about $250.00 per 1 gallon of resin and 1 Gallon of hardener.
I would contact the good folks at King Plastics. You may not want to hear this , but I would consider removing the King Starboard and replacing with marine grade plywood. Glass it in then gelcoat of finish with a marine coating. What size area are we talking about?
PeteB88 posted 10-09-2010 09:29 PM ET (US)
Agree w/ Newtauk. Best solution is to use marine plywood (real marine ply, Doug Fir is perfect), sand both sides and the edges of the panel, "break" the edges with sander or hand sanding, coat all surfaces with West Systems marine epoxy, I'd do two coats, Warp or cover both sides with 4 oz fiberglass cloth and roll two or three coats over the glass (until weave disappears and surface is smooth) and you are ready to go. I would probably coat it with marine paint and you are set.
You can always call West technical reps on the phone.
I think your King Starboard is polyethylene - it is impossible to glue anything reliably to Poly E
dfmcintyre posted 10-09-2010 10:21 PM ET (US)
I got curious, and have pulled out some scrap Starboard pieces. Will cut them and treat them per West instructions found here:
http://www.epoxyworks.com/26/index.html (for those interested, got to the article "Gluing with G/Flex, p2)
Will report results. Stay tuned, film at 11.
Don
PeteB88 posted 10-10-2010 03:53 AM ET (US)
meant to say wrap not warp. Saturating end grain and glass on panel faces is probably best.

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Author	Topic: Adhesives For Bonding KING StarBoard
whalernut207	posted 10-08-2010 09:12 PM ET (US) I have recently cut out the [cockpit deck] in a 1984 [Boston Whaler MONTAUK]. [S]omeone had screwed different things down over the years and never sealed the holes. [N]eedless to say the floor was rotted out! [I] have replaced the plywood with [KING StarBoard] material, thinking [I] would never have to do this again. [W]hat [I] didn[']t realize is that fiberglass won[']t stick to this stuff very well. [Give me] tips on how to make the fiberglass stick to [KING StarBoard]. My idea was to fiberglass over it to make it waterproof, then use spray-in bedliner instead of gel coat. [A]nyone care to comment? [O]pen to ideas.
Jeff	posted 10-08-2010 09:24 PM ET (US) KING StarBoard will not adhere to resin encapsulated fiberglass period. If you are looking for a rot-proof solution use Nida-cora. Also, I would highly recommended against the spray-in bedliner unless you are totally and completely not worried about resale. Consider an Awlgrip roll in non-skid instead.
jimh	posted 10-08-2010 11:10 PM ET (US) Material like KING StarBoard is a plastic material that is difficult to bond. You need to use special adhesives. Polyester resin is a poor adhesive to begin with, so it will not be a good adhesive to use to bond to KING StarBoard. Even epoxy, a much better adhesive than polyester resin, will not get much adhesion to KING StarBoard.
Jeff	posted 10-08-2010 11:19 PM ET (US) When I did the 22 Outrage floor 5 years ago I talked extensively to West Systems and they recommended not to bond starboard with their product as it would separate for the starboard. However, after a discussion with another fine member of this board I was made aware of West Systems G/Flex. Apparently it is able to adhere to and Bond with HDPE Plastics though King Starboard is not directly called out. http://www.westsystem.com/ss/west-system-launches-g-flex-epoxy/ With that said I would still recommend Nida-Core as it will likely bond the best with your resins and it would be a huge weight savings over the Starboard. http://nida-core.com/english/
whalernut207	posted 10-09-2010 10:46 AM ET (US) Thanks for the input. [S]ince [I] already have the [KING Starboard] cut and laid in, [I] will likely first try the WEST System epoxy. I will let you know how it goes.
Newtauk1	posted 10-09-2010 07:43 PM ET (US) I dont think G-flex will work. It is also about $250.00 per 1 gallon of resin and 1 Gallon of hardener. I would contact the good folks at King Plastics. You may not want to hear this , but I would consider removing the King Starboard and replacing with marine grade plywood. Glass it in then gelcoat of finish with a marine coating. What size area are we talking about?
PeteB88	posted 10-09-2010 09:29 PM ET (US) Agree w/ Newtauk. Best solution is to use marine plywood (real marine ply, Doug Fir is perfect), sand both sides and the edges of the panel, "break" the edges with sander or hand sanding, coat all surfaces with West Systems marine epoxy, I'd do two coats, Warp or cover both sides with 4 oz fiberglass cloth and roll two or three coats over the glass (until weave disappears and surface is smooth) and you are ready to go. I would probably coat it with marine paint and you are set. You can always call West technical reps on the phone. I think your King Starboard is polyethylene - it is impossible to glue anything reliably to Poly E
dfmcintyre	posted 10-09-2010 10:21 PM ET (US) I got curious, and have pulled out some scrap Starboard pieces. Will cut them and treat them per West instructions found here: http://www.epoxyworks.com/26/index.html (for those interested, got to the article "Gluing with G/Flex, p2) Will report results. Stay tuned, film at 11. Don
PeteB88	posted 10-10-2010 03:53 AM ET (US) meant to say wrap not warp. Saturating end grain and glass on panel faces is probably best.