posted 03-31-2011 08:33 AM ET (US)        

At tall fuel docks the removal of the fuel filler cap can be awkward. The cap must be removed by leaning outboard over the windshield and working from above. There is always a risk of losing the cap. (The retainer chain on mine is broken.)

Once the cap is off and secured onboard, the fuel hose nozzle has to be lowered down to the filler, which often results in a drop or two of gasoline spilling.

To other REVENGE owners whose fuel filler is located outboard on Port, I would like to ask:

--Do you find fueling at a tall fuel dock to be difficult?

--Do you have any ideas how to improve access to the fuel fill?

--Would relocating the filler to somewhere else be practical and would it improve fueling?

posted 03-31-2011 01:55 PM ET (US)            

From reading your travel logs, I thought you liked going to fuel docks because you almost never fill up.

posted 03-31-2011 06:28 PM ET (US)            

You could also probably move the fill to the gunwale aft of the cabin superstructure, or to a fitting on top of the cabin superstructure. Both would require a longer filler hose and extensive fiberglass/gel coat patching for the existing hole.

I just inspected my fill hoses for my 25 and it looks like I'll have to replace them this spring - on the 18, this was a pretty easy job, but I haven't investigated the labor needed to do it on the 25. Hopefully it isn't too much more difficult...just two instead of the one.

I'll be interested to see if you come up with a solution or end up sticking with the existing setup.

posted 03-31-2011 09:53 PM ET (US)            

All the fuel docks in Washington and British Columbia I have ever used are floating fuel docks. I presume this is because of our tidal range but even fuel dock on the lakes around here are on floats.

That said, your dilemma is peculiar to the Revenge 20 and Revenge 22. The Revenge 25s have the fuel fill at the forward end of the gunwale board where it is easily accessible from the cockpit.

Even when I am fueling at a gas station, I typically will sit on a cooler seat that I pull up to the port sod of the cockpit and can hold the nozzle inboard to more easily fit the shape of the filler hose.

The only place I can think of relocating the fill on a Revenge 22 Walk-Through is the aft side of the cabin/deck molding that supports the windshield.

posted 04-01-2011 10:40 PM ET (US)            

I did not realize the REVENGE 25 had a different fuel fill location than the 22 and 20. Thanks for that information.

I raised this question because my fuel filler hoses are getting older. They're in their 19th season. I was thinking of replacing the filler hose, and, as long as I am going to be getting into the fuel filler hose system, I thought it might be interesting to see if there were any better location.

posted 04-01-2011 11:44 PM ET (US)            

If I were a canal cruiser and knew every fuel dock on the 20-miles of local water I kept going over and over, I could probably work out some better fuel management strategy. But if I am heading out with less than a full tank from some remote spot, I usually add some fuel, if available. However, in some spots the fuel is very expensive--I've paid almost $6-per-gallon--so in those cases I only buy the minimum amount necessary to give a reasonable cushion or reserve.

I also tow our boat hundreds and sometimes thousands of miles to get to where I am going to launch, so I don't tow it around with a full tank. Call me crazy, but driving with a full tank of gasoline in the boat just does not make sense to me. I try to hold that down to just a short haul right before launching

I also track fuel use closely, and report it in detail in the narratives. This may confuse you, too, as often people don't mention their fuel stops, fuel volumes, and fuel prices the way I do.

So perhaps all of these factors mislead you into thinking I have a special fondness for fueling. I don't.

One part of fueling that I to tend to avoid is filling the filler hose to the brim or overflowing. I do not like to leave any fuel sitting in the filler hose. I have learned that the filler hose is often a bit soft with age and letting gasoline sit in it for long periods is not a good idea--it will permeate the hose. Even a few drops of gasoline into the fuel tank cavity will leave a gasoline smell for days.

I also like to manage the fuel so that when hauling out at the end of a trip I don't have a lot of extra fuel in the tank. Again, this is to avoid putting the boat on the trailer and the highway with a heavy load of gasoline in the boat.

For the past two seasons I have been using quite a bit less fuel thanks to the improvement in fuel economy from a modern engine. With a 77-gallon tank and an average MPG of about 2.6 the boat now has a range of 200-miles at cruising speed, and if I slow down to displacement speed, the fuel economy can soar to more than 5-MPG. That means a "fill-up" gives a range of over 350-miles and 70-hours of running.

Someday maybe I will have a place with a dock and in my later years I can just go around in circles over the same route I went the weekend before, and I can get better at knowing when to buy fuel. But until then I will just keep boating the way I do and buying fuel as I go, and as I think appropriate. So far I have not run out of fuel while underway, and I generally have been able to avoid driving home 500-miles on the highway with a full tank of gasoline on the boat.

posted 04-02-2011 11:11 AM ET (US)            

The fuel tank vent plumbing would stay the same.

posted 04-03-2011 12:53 AM ET (US)            

I boat a lot also.

Do you fill your car up when you go to the gas station?

I could only justify not filling my tank if I was going to trailer a long ways. Then I would float the cap before launching.

If I was going out in the boonies, I would want to know where the fuel docks are before I went. Then, you are still at risk because the next fuel dock might be unable to dispense fuel.

Fuel left puddled in the filler hose is only a problem if you fill up after you are all done boating. If you are spending the night at the fuel dock, you might have some issues.

Time is money, the fuel dock takes time and increases your chance at getting whacked or blown up by another boater. Multiple sources of fuel, especially seasonal marine fuel, increases your chance of purchasing old or contaminated fuel. Sure I can save a 100 bucks if the fuel is 2 bucks cheaper somewhere else. I am not a trailer guy so that does not work well for me.

I do travel the same routes a lot, but the fuel docks are few and far between. Fuel consumption changes all the time with current and conditions.

You can "hear" when the fuel tank on the Revenge is getting full if you are paying attention. I fill my remote oil tank at the same time. Usually the kicker tank will be topped off also.

I have a Navman 3100 also so I am not confused by your fuel consumption reporting. Every time I go to the fuel dock and fill up, I know my Navman is still calibrated and reporting correctly. Putting in 20 here, 20 there, how do you really know the gauge is accurate? How do you know the calibration on the pump you purchased fuel from was correct?

John

posted 04-03-2011 07:44 AM ET (US)            

"The biggest problem you would have is deciding what to do with the cutout where the fuel fill is now."

That is a problem. Making the cutout disappear would require very skilled repair work. It would probably be best to leave the filler there and perhaps use it for something else, say a holding tank pump out or a fresh water tank--but then you would be back to square one: a fitting that was difficult to access when the dock height was too high.

I guess the best overall solution is to get fuel dock operators to move to floating docks. This is actually happening in some marinas now that the water level in the Great Lakes is five feet lower than it was when many of the docks were built in the late 1980's.

posted 04-03-2011 09:29 AM ET (US)            

"May have missed something while refueling my boats."

No, I think you missed something reading this thread. The problem occurs when fueling a Boston Whaler REVENGE 22 moored against a fuel dock where the deck height of the fuel dock is about three-feet (or more) higher than the fuel filler on the boat. Unfortunately, this is a fairly common situation around the Great Lakes due to the legacy of very high water in the late 1980's. It is awkward to reach the fuel filler, remove the cap, insert the fuel nozzle, dispense fuel into the filler, remove the nozzle without spilling gasoline, and replace the filler cap. That's the problem. The problem prompted my inquiry about moving the filler.

A more "masterful design" for fuel tank filler location on Boston Whaler boats might be to move the fuel fill right to the tank itself. The filler cap could be part of the tank top surface. A removable deck plate would be located about the filler. To add fuel you would just remove the deck plate, remove the filler cap, and add fuel directly to the tank.

The drawback to the design I propose above would be the pressure put on the filler cap seal by fuel sloshing. I suspect that it is a good practice in fuel tank design for boats to have some vertical standing hose or pipe above the fuel tank to allow fuel to slosh upward into the hose or pipe.

On our S2 sailboat the fuel tank was located below the cockpit deck. The filler was located in the cockpit deck, right above the fuel tank. A very short hose connected the filler to the tank. That was a "masterful design." S2 sailboats are somewhat similar in design philosophy to classic Boston Whaler boats. They are well built and don't have a lot of unnecessary frills. They are designed with utility and purpose. The fuel tank location and fuel filler location are very simple, very well designed features.

In contrast, I do not consider the design of the REVENGE 22 fuel filler location to be masterful. There is a rather long run of hose, including a long horizontal section. There are several reports that the hose in the horizontal section has become soft and allowed fuel to leak into the fuel compartment. There are also reports of an elbow connector, creating additional joints and possibilities for leaks.

The REVENGE fuel filler works fine if you are fueling at a floating dock or from a fixed dock that is not too high, but at a high fuel dock the fuel filler is in a very bad location for access.

posted 04-03-2011 10:05 AM ET (US)            

"You can [hear] when the fuel tank on the Revenge is getting full if you are paying attention."

John--I want to mention two things in this regard:

--I have heard the whistling sound made by the air being pushed up the filler pipe as fuel is filling the tank. The sound has a characteristic of changing pitch as the resonance of the filler hose changes due to fuel beginning to fill upward into the hose, and;

--I do pay attention when adding fuel to my fuel tank to avoid spilling fuel.

posted 04-03-2011 10:28 AM ET (US)            

"How do you know the calibration on the pump you purchased fuel from was correct?"

posted 04-03-2011 01:35 PM ET (US)            

Rumour has it that the Washington Weights and Measures personal have a terrible record for marine inspections. They do not like to haul the 30 pound, five gallon test bucket all the way back up the dock to the tank farm.

From your sketch, it looks like it is difficult to see the pump meter also. I assume you have someone up there reading off gallons and you know what your ullage is.

Tom's location for moving the fill is much safer than a fill right into the fuel tank. Move it there and just leave the original fill as is.

They put drop tubes in tanks and hoses to tanks to limit your access to all the vapors in a partially filled tank. Sloshing pressure on a capped tank is not a problem. Sloshing with an open "right into the tank" access is always a problem.

John

posted 04-03-2011 03:13 PM ET (US)            

I would not want to withdraw the retaining screw from inside the filler inlet unless I had put something behind it to catch it if it falls away from the screwdriver. You could put something really sticky on the screwdriver and hope it would retain the screw as you withdrew it.

Carrying a spare fuel cap is a good idea. I should get one. I think the threads used on the caps are not always universal, and it might be hard to find a replacement. I recall a prior discussion on that topic.

posted 04-04-2011 02:19 PM ET (US)            

contender... I agree this is more or less what I was saying as well by relocating it to the top portion of the Gunnel which likely would be about 2-3 feet inwards from the original location. The connections are on the same side and I would think could be spliced in with proper adaptors and a good technician that works with gas tank systems. I wouldn't worry so much about the filing in the old tank fill hole maybe you could make a fresh water conversion and keep a tank somewhere where the ladder is stored or a pilot seat arrangement and keep the tank under the seat. A little off topic but the first part is relevant.