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Author Topic:   FLO-TORQ II v. FLO-TORQ III

wldrns1 posted 04-23-2009 10:08 PM ET (US)
The [Mercury] 60 [likely a 60-HP FOURSTROKE and used on a Boston Whaler 150 SPORT] came equiped with a VENGEANCE propeller stamped "48-17314 14P." I believe [there is] some prop rattle [when underway in forward gear] at low [engine speeds]. Very smooth and quiet above 1,000-RPM.
The [Mercury] manual states stainless propellers should have Flo-Torq III hubs. I find a Flo-Torq II installed. What should the original equipment be?
I'm also told a Flo-Torq III can only be obtained as a new propeller. Yikes! I see III kits on the Mercury site, so [there is] confusion there, as well. Looks like I could drive out the FLO-TORQ II and install the FLO-TORQ III. I didn't try removing the existing drive sleeve.
Can I simply install a FLO-TORQ III hub with my current prop?
Will it help reduce the rattle?
For now I just greased the prop shaft and reassembled. Torqued to 55 ft-lb, per manual. I did note some hardened black grease on the backside of the forward thrust washer. The bevel was a little scratched as well. No burned. The prop nut came off a little easier than expected, too. I'll water test this weekend to see if it's a little quieter.
Looking at an aluminum spare. Again lots of conflicting input. Don't mind taking some RPM's off the top as [the wide open engine speed is] just over 6,000-RPM now. Part number suggestions? Should an aluminum propeller be fitted with a Flo-Torq III, as well?
Thanks for the help. Great Board!
Joe

jimh posted 04-23-2009 11:43 PM ET (US)
I doubt that an aluminum propeller will need a special hub fitting to suppress rattle. Aluminum propeller are much lighter than steel propellers. They probably won't exhibit any rattle.
The FLO-TORQ II and FLO-TORQ III distinction is too complex for me to help. I think you'll get good advice when one of our resident propeller experts jumps in.
L H G posted 04-23-2009 11:53 PM ET (US)
Assuming the 60 is a BigFoot, it would use the 4-1/4" gearcase used on the Merc 75-115's, and the Flo-Torq III is used for those propellers when rattle becaomes a problem.
jimh posted 04-24-2009 12:10 AM ET (US)
Here is a link to a good presentation of all the various FLO-TORQ hub kits that are available:
http://www.mercurypartsexpress.com/us/hub-kits-c213.html
Note that there are four variants of the FLO-TORQ II hub kit. Their prices range from $50 to $150, so there must be some substantial difference among them.
Only one FLO-TORQ III hub kit is listed.
Also, a FLO-TORQ IV hub kit is listed.
Again, too complex for me to unravel.
Tom W Clark posted 04-24-2009 12:20 AM ET (US)
The distinction between the Flo-Torq II and the Flo-Torq III is very simple: The Flo-Torq II uses a single piece Delrin drive sleeve while the Flo-Torq III uses a two piece, spring loaded drive sleeve to act as a shock absorber, both for shift clunk as well as prop rattle.
You can buy a Flo-Torq III hub kits by itself. You do not need to buy a new propeller to get one.
A Flo-Torq III hub kits can be installed in ANY square bore propeller of any size from any manufacturer. That does not mean it would be wise or beneficial to do so, but there is no physical limitation that prevents it.
I would not expect a Flo-Torq III hub kit would be needed with any aluminum propeller on a Mercury 60 FourStroke but you could try one if you like and see how it does. Who knows?

Tom W Clark posted 04-24-2009 12:35 AM ET (US)
The Flo-Torq IV is very similar to the Flo-Torq III but has larger diameter titanium rods that act as the springs. The larger diameter rods increase the spring rater and handle for torque, thus the Flo-Torq II is used on the 40-115 HP motors and the Flo-Torq IV hubs are used on the 135 HP and up motors.
In reality the Flo-Torq II can be used on motors up to 150 HP I have found but may provide a little too much resilience for heavy propellers.
For the record, a Flo-Torq I (or Flo-Torq, as it was originally known) hub is nothing but a square bore propeller with a special square rubber pressed-in hub.
Any Flo-Torq prop can converted back to a conventional press-in rubber hub by having a prop shop install the appropriate Mercury Flo-Torq I hub.
L H G posted 04-24-2009 12:50 AM ET (US)
That's an interesting thought, Tom. I wonder if a rubber Flo-Torq original hub would handle a Rev-4 any better than the IV does?
bloller posted 04-24-2009 03:29 PM ET (US)
A Flo Torq II equipped aluminum prop exhibited significant prop rattle on my Bigfoot 60. Of course there was no shift clunk since it was an aluminum but I would still recommend a Flor Torq III for an aluminum prop to help reduce the prop rattle.
I have not tried a Flo Torq III on an aluminum prop but since it worked so well at reducing prop rattle on my stainless then I would think it would do the same on an aluminum
wldrns1 posted 04-24-2009 09:41 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the replies.
Still undetermined: was the 2008 60 Bigfoot on the 150 Sport supossed to be equipped with a Flo-Torq III? The outboard owner's manual [states the FLO-TORQ III is recommended].
I intend to change the hub on my VENGEANCE to the FLO-TORQ III. While instructions may be included with the kit, what is the best way to drive out the old drive sleeve and then install the new drive sleeve?
It's what you don't know yet assume that can hurt you!
Joe
bloller posted 04-25-2009 10:27 AM ET (US)
If you have 2008 60 Bigfoot then it might have the redesigned gearcase which I thought made the Flo Torq III unneccesary. But either way the Flo Torq III is a good addition to any prop especially a stainless steel one.
Use a small rubber mallet to tap out the old drive sleeve and seat the new drive sleeve. I don't have a rubber mallet so I just use a hammer with some padding between the two. Tighten the nut to 100lb/ft. You will notice some fore and aft movement off the prop on the shaft especially after running it. This is perfectly normal and discussed in the installation instructions.
wldrns1 posted 04-25-2009 08:36 PM ET (US)
It was a great day here in Central New York. Over 80 degrees and I just had to go for a spin. After removing the prop, greasing and retorqing the prop nut I heard some improvement reducing the rattle but nowhere near gone.
The production month of my engine is Feb 08. It may not be equipped with the 'correction/upgrade' to stop the rattle. I'll purchase a Flo-Torq III and install it next week. Hopefully that will be the end of it. If nothing else the clanking is very annoying especially when at the ramp. I'll post the install results.
Thanks to everyone for the clarifications. Most helpful.
wldrns1 posted 05-10-2009 09:18 PM ET (US)
I installed the Flo-Torq III Hub Kit in my original equipment Vengeance SS and have to say...wonderfully quiet! The upgrade from the Flo-Torq II to the III was worth every penny. Thanks to everyone for the assistance.
kitebuz posted 06-18-2009 04:49 PM ET (US)
Can a Flo-Torq I hub be pressed out, and replaced with a Flo-Torq II or III hub?
Tom W Clark posted 06-18-2009 05:22 PM ET (US)
Yes.
kitebuz posted 06-18-2009 05:32 PM ET (US)
Is it fairly easy - as in doing it at home, or would a prop shop or machine shop have to do it?
I ask b/c I've been looking for a set of Laser II props, and most of them have been the A40 w/ the FT-I & have Evinrudes.
Tom W Clark posted 06-18-2009 05:45 PM ET (US)
An A40 hub is not a Flo-Torq I hub.
kitebuz posted 06-18-2009 05:50 PM ET (US)
Can you confirm what it is?
I am looking at 48-16990 20P - that I can get to fit on '89 Evinrude 120's.
How about the A45 as well?
Tom W Clark posted 06-19-2009 11:04 AM ET (US)
A 48-16990A40 20P would be an older Quicksilver Laser II with a pressed in rubber hub and the old large square vent holes.
A 48-16990A45 20P wold be a newer Flo-Torq Mercury Laser II with the PVS vent holes.
Neither is going to fit an Evinrude 120.
To put a Laser II on an OMC intermediate gearcase motor, you need to switch over to the Quicksilver branded Lightspeed model and buy the "small labyrinth" version made especially for the OMC/BRP motors.
kitebuz posted 06-19-2009 11:23 AM ET (US)
I really appreciate the detail, as I have my finger on the trigger to get some, and you will be saving me some time & headache. I thought the Lightspeed was pretty much the same as the Laser II.
I was under the impression that the FTII hub # 835266 Q1 does the trick for the smaller V4 gear case. Does it not fit in a Laser II prop?
I realize the A40 is pressed in, & was incorrectly assuming that made it an FT I. I thought I had read somewhere (that I can't find now) that you could press out the hub on the A40 & replace it w/ a Flo-Torq II. I was trying to confirm or deny it, since I've learned long ago not to trust a foggy memory...
I've emailed Merc a couple times, and they are unable to give any detail.
Tom W Clark posted 06-19-2009 12:07 PM ET (US)
Let me try to explain.
Yes, the Lightspeed is the same as the Laser II with a few minor differences.
For pitches of 20", 22" and 24" there are two models each of the LIghtspeed, one specifically of OMC/BRP and the other for all the rest. Let's look at the 13-1/4" x 20" size you are interested in.
Lightspeed part #QS5120X is the equivalent of the 48-16990 20P Laser II. Neither of these props will fit an OMC, not because they do not use the same Flo-Torq HUBs, but because there will be an interference problem between the propeller casting itself and the gear case.
On OMC/BRP intermediate gearcase motors, the inside diameter of the bullet which the propeller slips into is slightly smaller by a few hundredths of an inch. The Mercury props are machined with a very close tolerance and they will not fit.
So Mercury makes a few extra models under the Quicksilver brand to accommodate the OMC/BRP motors.
The Lightspeed QS5140H is one of them. It is the same 13-1/4" x 20" as the other Lightspeed and the Laser II but the forward end of the hub is machined down just a little bit more to fit the OMC/BRP gearcases.
The only other notable difference between the Laser II and the Lightspeed is that the Lightspeed uses the old style square vent holes instead of the PVS vent holes.
kitebuz posted 06-19-2009 12:32 PM ET (US)
Wow! great detail - thank you very much, Tom. That is the first I have heard about the front of the hub being an issue.
I guess that further narrows my search down.
Are there any other props you would recommend for these motors mounted on a bracketed Formula 233 center console?
I currently have aluminum Michigan Wheel 13 x 19p props, and I am experiencing alot of slip (@ 20% at 4500rpm cruise). At wot, I am getting 5400rpm and 41mph (16%). The other day w/ a slightly heavy load (80g fuel, 4 adults, 4 kids), I was seeing 22% slip (5,000rpms, 35mph). My engines are at about the right height with the inside part of the cav plate just getting splashed while on plane & level.
Someone else recommended the Turbo 18p prop, but I am not familiar with them.
Sorry for derailing this thread - I can start a new one, or pm you if you prefer.
Tom W Clark posted 06-19-2009 12:41 PM ET (US)
Start a new thread to discuss.
kitebuz posted 06-19-2009 01:08 PM ET (US)
Thanks & done.

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Author	Topic: FLO-TORQ II v. FLO-TORQ III
wldrns1	posted 04-23-2009 10:08 PM ET (US) The [Mercury] 60 [likely a 60-HP FOURSTROKE and used on a Boston Whaler 150 SPORT] came equiped with a VENGEANCE propeller stamped "48-17314 14P." I believe [there is] some prop rattle [when underway in forward gear] at low [engine speeds]. Very smooth and quiet above 1,000-RPM. The [Mercury] manual states stainless propellers should have Flo-Torq III hubs. I find a Flo-Torq II installed. What should the original equipment be? I'm also told a Flo-Torq III can only be obtained as a new propeller. Yikes! I see III kits on the Mercury site, so [there is] confusion there, as well. Looks like I could drive out the FLO-TORQ II and install the FLO-TORQ III. I didn't try removing the existing drive sleeve. Can I simply install a FLO-TORQ III hub with my current prop? Will it help reduce the rattle? For now I just greased the prop shaft and reassembled. Torqued to 55 ft-lb, per manual. I did note some hardened black grease on the backside of the forward thrust washer. The bevel was a little scratched as well. No burned. The prop nut came off a little easier than expected, too. I'll water test this weekend to see if it's a little quieter. Looking at an aluminum spare. Again lots of conflicting input. Don't mind taking some RPM's off the top as [the wide open engine speed is] just over 6,000-RPM now. Part number suggestions? Should an aluminum propeller be fitted with a Flo-Torq III, as well? Thanks for the help. Great Board! Joe
jimh	posted 04-23-2009 11:43 PM ET (US) I doubt that an aluminum propeller will need a special hub fitting to suppress rattle. Aluminum propeller are much lighter than steel propellers. They probably won't exhibit any rattle. The FLO-TORQ II and FLO-TORQ III distinction is too complex for me to help. I think you'll get good advice when one of our resident propeller experts jumps in.
L H G	posted 04-23-2009 11:53 PM ET (US) Assuming the 60 is a BigFoot, it would use the 4-1/4" gearcase used on the Merc 75-115's, and the Flo-Torq III is used for those propellers when rattle becaomes a problem.
jimh	posted 04-24-2009 12:10 AM ET (US) Here is a link to a good presentation of all the various FLO-TORQ hub kits that are available: http://www.mercurypartsexpress.com/us/hub-kits-c213.html Note that there are four variants of the FLO-TORQ II hub kit. Their prices range from $50 to $150, so there must be some substantial difference among them. Only one FLO-TORQ III hub kit is listed. Also, a FLO-TORQ IV hub kit is listed. Again, too complex for me to unravel.
Tom W Clark	posted 04-24-2009 12:20 AM ET (US) The distinction between the Flo-Torq II and the Flo-Torq III is very simple: The Flo-Torq II uses a single piece Delrin drive sleeve while the Flo-Torq III uses a two piece, spring loaded drive sleeve to act as a shock absorber, both for shift clunk as well as prop rattle. You can buy a Flo-Torq III hub kits by itself. You do not need to buy a new propeller to get one. A Flo-Torq III hub kits can be installed in ANY square bore propeller of any size from any manufacturer. That does not mean it would be wise or beneficial to do so, but there is no physical limitation that prevents it. I would not expect a Flo-Torq III hub kit would be needed with any aluminum propeller on a Mercury 60 FourStroke but you could try one if you like and see how it does. Who knows?
Tom W Clark	posted 04-24-2009 12:35 AM ET (US) The Flo-Torq IV is very similar to the Flo-Torq III but has larger diameter titanium rods that act as the springs. The larger diameter rods increase the spring rater and handle for torque, thus the Flo-Torq II is used on the 40-115 HP motors and the Flo-Torq IV hubs are used on the 135 HP and up motors. In reality the Flo-Torq II can be used on motors up to 150 HP I have found but may provide a little too much resilience for heavy propellers. For the record, a Flo-Torq I (or Flo-Torq, as it was originally known) hub is nothing but a square bore propeller with a special square rubber pressed-in hub. Any Flo-Torq prop can converted back to a conventional press-in rubber hub by having a prop shop install the appropriate Mercury Flo-Torq I hub.
L H G	posted 04-24-2009 12:50 AM ET (US) That's an interesting thought, Tom. I wonder if a rubber Flo-Torq original hub would handle a Rev-4 any better than the IV does?
bloller	posted 04-24-2009 03:29 PM ET (US) A Flo Torq II equipped aluminum prop exhibited significant prop rattle on my Bigfoot 60. Of course there was no shift clunk since it was an aluminum but I would still recommend a Flor Torq III for an aluminum prop to help reduce the prop rattle. I have not tried a Flo Torq III on an aluminum prop but since it worked so well at reducing prop rattle on my stainless then I would think it would do the same on an aluminum
wldrns1	posted 04-24-2009 09:41 PM ET (US) Thanks for the replies. Still undetermined: was the 2008 60 Bigfoot on the 150 Sport supossed to be equipped with a Flo-Torq III? The outboard owner's manual [states the FLO-TORQ III is recommended]. I intend to change the hub on my VENGEANCE to the FLO-TORQ III. While instructions may be included with the kit, what is the best way to drive out the old drive sleeve and then install the new drive sleeve? It's what you don't know yet assume that can hurt you! Joe
bloller	posted 04-25-2009 10:27 AM ET (US) If you have 2008 60 Bigfoot then it might have the redesigned gearcase which I thought made the Flo Torq III unneccesary. But either way the Flo Torq III is a good addition to any prop especially a stainless steel one. Use a small rubber mallet to tap out the old drive sleeve and seat the new drive sleeve. I don't have a rubber mallet so I just use a hammer with some padding between the two. Tighten the nut to 100lb/ft. You will notice some fore and aft movement off the prop on the shaft especially after running it. This is perfectly normal and discussed in the installation instructions.
wldrns1	posted 04-25-2009 08:36 PM ET (US) It was a great day here in Central New York. Over 80 degrees and I just had to go for a spin. After removing the prop, greasing and retorqing the prop nut I heard some improvement reducing the rattle but nowhere near gone. The production month of my engine is Feb 08. It may not be equipped with the 'correction/upgrade' to stop the rattle. I'll purchase a Flo-Torq III and install it next week. Hopefully that will be the end of it. If nothing else the clanking is very annoying especially when at the ramp. I'll post the install results. Thanks to everyone for the clarifications. Most helpful.
wldrns1	posted 05-10-2009 09:18 PM ET (US) I installed the Flo-Torq III Hub Kit in my original equipment Vengeance SS and have to say...wonderfully quiet! The upgrade from the Flo-Torq II to the III was worth every penny. Thanks to everyone for the assistance.
kitebuz	posted 06-18-2009 04:49 PM ET (US) Can a Flo-Torq I hub be pressed out, and replaced with a Flo-Torq II or III hub?
Tom W Clark	posted 06-18-2009 05:22 PM ET (US) Yes.
kitebuz	posted 06-18-2009 05:32 PM ET (US) Is it fairly easy - as in doing it at home, or would a prop shop or machine shop have to do it? I ask b/c I've been looking for a set of Laser II props, and most of them have been the A40 w/ the FT-I & have Evinrudes.
Tom W Clark	posted 06-18-2009 05:45 PM ET (US) An A40 hub is not a Flo-Torq I hub.
kitebuz	posted 06-18-2009 05:50 PM ET (US) Can you confirm what it is? I am looking at 48-16990 20P - that I can get to fit on '89 Evinrude 120's. How about the A45 as well?
Tom W Clark	posted 06-19-2009 11:04 AM ET (US) A 48-16990A40 20P would be an older Quicksilver Laser II with a pressed in rubber hub and the old large square vent holes. A 48-16990A45 20P wold be a newer Flo-Torq Mercury Laser II with the PVS vent holes. Neither is going to fit an Evinrude 120. To put a Laser II on an OMC intermediate gearcase motor, you need to switch over to the Quicksilver branded Lightspeed model and buy the "small labyrinth" version made especially for the OMC/BRP motors.
kitebuz	posted 06-19-2009 11:23 AM ET (US) I really appreciate the detail, as I have my finger on the trigger to get some, and you will be saving me some time & headache. I thought the Lightspeed was pretty much the same as the Laser II. I was under the impression that the FTII hub # 835266 Q1 does the trick for the smaller V4 gear case. Does it not fit in a Laser II prop? I realize the A40 is pressed in, & was incorrectly assuming that made it an FT I. I thought I had read somewhere (that I can't find now) that you could press out the hub on the A40 & replace it w/ a Flo-Torq II. I was trying to confirm or deny it, since I've learned long ago not to trust a foggy memory... I've emailed Merc a couple times, and they are unable to give any detail.
Tom W Clark	posted 06-19-2009 12:07 PM ET (US) Let me try to explain. Yes, the Lightspeed is the same as the Laser II with a few minor differences. For pitches of 20", 22" and 24" there are two models each of the LIghtspeed, one specifically of OMC/BRP and the other for all the rest. Let's look at the 13-1/4" x 20" size you are interested in. Lightspeed part #QS5120X is the equivalent of the 48-16990 20P Laser II. Neither of these props will fit an OMC, not because they do not use the same Flo-Torq HUBs, but because there will be an interference problem between the propeller casting itself and the gear case. On OMC/BRP intermediate gearcase motors, the inside diameter of the bullet which the propeller slips into is slightly smaller by a few hundredths of an inch. The Mercury props are machined with a very close tolerance and they will not fit. So Mercury makes a few extra models under the Quicksilver brand to accommodate the OMC/BRP motors. The Lightspeed QS5140H is one of them. It is the same 13-1/4" x 20" as the other Lightspeed and the Laser II but the forward end of the hub is machined down just a little bit more to fit the OMC/BRP gearcases. The only other notable difference between the Laser II and the Lightspeed is that the Lightspeed uses the old style square vent holes instead of the PVS vent holes.
kitebuz	posted 06-19-2009 12:32 PM ET (US) Wow! great detail - thank you very much, Tom. That is the first I have heard about the front of the hub being an issue. I guess that further narrows my search down. Are there any other props you would recommend for these motors mounted on a bracketed Formula 233 center console? I currently have aluminum Michigan Wheel 13 x 19p props, and I am experiencing alot of slip (@ 20% at 4500rpm cruise). At wot, I am getting 5400rpm and 41mph (16%). The other day w/ a slightly heavy load (80g fuel, 4 adults, 4 kids), I was seeing 22% slip (5,000rpms, 35mph). My engines are at about the right height with the inside part of the cav plate just getting splashed while on plane & level. Someone else recommended the Turbo 18p prop, but I am not familiar with them. Sorry for derailing this thread - I can start a new one, or pm you if you prefer.
Tom W Clark	posted 06-19-2009 12:41 PM ET (US) Start a new thread to discuss.
kitebuz	posted 06-19-2009 01:08 PM ET (US) Thanks & done.