Longevity of Outboard Motors; Freedom From Repair

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jimh posted 10-24-2010 12:12 PM ET (US)
Please give me your opinion on how many hours of operation for an outboard motor would represent above normal longevity.
Also, how many hours of operation without any repair or unschedule service must elapse before an outboard motor is considered to be above normal in freedom from repair or reliable service.
contender posted 10-24-2010 12:31 PM ET (US)
Hard question to answer, salt or fresh water. And I think the only true way to judge this would be to purchase two boats, rigged the same with the same engine, and used side by side for a period of time. The only difference would be how the owner takes care of it. But then again you are talking about something that is a combination of electrical and mechanical that are subject to parts breaks and malfunction with out the owner doing anything wrong. Example; back in 1980 I purchased a brand new Harley Davidson Motorcycle (Fat Bob) so did my friend same bike same day (different colors). We took our 1st trip across the country, His bike, headlight went out, brain boxed failed,(had to tow him for over 100 miles) inter primary bearing went, and then leaked oil. I had no problems with my bike just put gas and changed the oil... Luck of the draw, bad luck I do not know, still was a great trip and we did it again the next year...So how long should a boat engine last, I think an owner should expect 3500 hr of use with small repairs Water pumps, plugs, oil changes and throw in an electrical repair or two. Time is also a factor meaning how many hrs. per year do you put on your boat...
jimh posted 10-24-2010 07:07 PM ET (US)
If 3,500-hours of use is considered a normal outcome for the lifespan of an outboard motor, and normal boating use is only 50-hours per year, then outboard motors are expected to last 70-years, and during those 70-years the only repairs would be perhaps some small electrical items. OK, that is quite optimistic. I don't think many current readers will be around in 70-years to see if that standard of longevity is obtained.
jharrell posted 10-24-2010 07:28 PM ET (US)
To make an informed opinion on above normal longevity one would have to know what normal longevity is for an outboard. The closest thing I can find on outboard reliability stats is JD Power findings on "Problems per 100 motors". [Changed TOPIC to impute some sort of special endorsement from me about J.D. Power results. See my reply below--jimh]
[J.D. Power findings on reliablity] updated in 2009 here: http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/news/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2009023 and include the following reliability statistics for outboards:
"The study finds that the average number of problems has steadily declined for both DI and EFI outboard engine types since 2005. In 2009, DI engines average 73 PP100, compared with 87 PP100 in 2005. Additionally, EFI outboard engines perform notably better in 2009 with 51 PP100, compared with 73 PP100 in 2005."
Of course it does not break down by brand, they only do this for owner satisfaction, which is somewhat more subjective.
[Changed TOPIC to make conclusions about cause of reliability. This is a fine topic but here we are just looking for an opinion about reliability. We can have another discussion about what elements of design of engines engenders reliability--jimh]
For me I would say there is not enough information available to consider any brand to have above normal freedom from repair or reliable service. They all seem to have improved in reliability over the years, and all have quite good reliability.
contender posted 10-24-2010 08:00 PM ET (US)
Jim: Hours on a outboard depends on were you live, down in South Fla a hard core boater could do 300-500 hrs a year no problem and maybe more (year round boating). I can understand up north your boating season is probably 4-5 months and you live mostly on lakes (except east and west coast) so a 2-3 hour run to your fishing hole is very uncommon...
jimh posted 10-24-2010 09:04 PM ET (US)
If average use is 500-hours per year, then 3,500-hours would be accumulated in just seven years. So now we have a range of the longevity of an outboard from 7 to 70-years.
jimh posted 10-24-2010 09:39 PM ET (US)
[For some reason my recent topics all seem to be dragged off into new discussions. I would like to keep this one very simple. Accordingly, I have removed some sidebar topics.--jimh]
I do respect the data collected by J. D. Power--it is some of only data available to the public on engine satisfaction--but I am more interested in people's opinions. Opinions of informed boaters who are participating here are more interesting to me.
Tohsgib posted 10-24-2010 11:54 PM ET (US)
"If 3,500-hours of use is considered a normal outcome for the lifespan of an outboard motor, and normal boating use is only 50-hours per year, then outboard motors are expected to last 70-years, and during those 70-years the only repairs would be perhaps some small electrical items. OK, that is quite optimistic. I don't think many current readers will be around in 70-years to see if that standard of longevity is obtained." That is one of the most asinine paragraphs I have read in years Jim. There are PLENTY of cars from 1940 that are still running and considered dependable....obviously....MEDIC!
L H G posted 10-25-2010 01:43 AM ET (US)
I think "Blue Water Pirate" just reported 3750 trouble free hours on a Boston Whaler rigged 225 Optimax.
For years, I have found my boating habits produce about 300 hours per year, sometimes more. I have a pair of Mercury 200 EFI's, purchased new 13 years ago. They now have over 2500 hours on each (I have hour meters), 1/2 fresh, 1/2 salt, with no service except the following: in 3rd year, a power trim motor failed, and was replaced under the 5 year extended warranty. The other engine had a rectifier go bad at about 8 years, about a $150 repair. That's it, nada. For routine service, I replace impellers every 300 hours, gear oil about every 150.
Plugs only as needed, and they last a long time, no gaping required. I use Mercury QuickClean every 4th tank.
Last winter I had them checked out. Head gaskets good, fuel injectors good, and compression perfect, like new (on Pennzoil/Walmart oil no less!). Mechanic said I'm good for another ten years. We'll see.
power2boat posted 10-25-2010 02:01 AM ET (US)
CONTENDER is right.Depends on where you live and how much time your motor is used.It is easy to put 500 hours on outboards if used in the warmer climates per season.
Also consider private or charter.Commercial operators can put 1000 to 2000/month per season.
My Suzuki dealer has striped down and rebuilt a 4 stroke after 6000 hours.
pcrussell50 posted 10-25-2010 02:29 AM ET (US)
You guys are just finding creative ways around the incontrovertible fact that kalbus and I already know... V4 crossflow... baby! Smoky, gas guzzling, sloppy* and old. BUT: simple as children's wood blocks, reliable as an anvil, and nothing can touch it in power-to-weight ratio.
:)
*"sloppy" came from kalbus in the ETEC durability thread
-Peter
jimh posted 10-25-2010 05:17 AM ET (US)
I'll interpret that as meaning for the OMC V4 longevity would be "forever."
captbone posted 10-25-2010 08:34 AM ET (US)
I dont think the longevity can be broken down into hours of use like we do with miles on a car.
I think of it more in terms of years regardless of how many hours you put on the vessel (within reason and recreational use). As pointed out the average use per year is very low and it would take decades for the engine to wear out. I would rather put 100 hours a year on my engine instead of 10 hours. The running of marine engines helps longevity instead of sitting in a saltwater environment.
As a consumer I expect 4-5 years of troublefree ownership of a new product. I expect a durable good to last 8-10 years before the cost of maintaining that product makes it not worth keeping. I do expect to do routine maintaince during these periods.
pcrussell50 posted 10-25-2010 09:49 AM ET (US)
Whoops. When I painted CWW member "kalbus" as a v4 crossflow fan, I meant to invoke CWW member, "adlert". I hate to create more work for you Jim, but if our posts were editable, I would fix it myself.
-Peter
Jefecinco posted 10-25-2010 10:01 AM ET (US)
I don't believe 3,500 hours is too far off the mark. A local bait shop and launch ramp owner also commercially fishes or trawls for shrimp which is the preferred bait in our area.
His preference is four stroke Yamaha engines. I was discussing reliability with him while he was repairing a lower unit last year. Actually I was teasing him about how his super-duper reliable Yamaha seemed to have let him down. He said he puts over 500 hours a year on his engines and that they are very hard hours pulling trawls for the most part. He also said he has learned to replace his engines at about seven or eight year intervals as they begin to develop problems if used in hard service for longer periods. This gentleman does not lavish care on his engines. Annual oil and filter changes are about what he does. Anything else gets attention when required.
From that single data source I'll conclude that 5,000 hours would be toward the outer limit of expected longevity from an outboard engine and that 3,500 would be a comfortable number to use for a reasonable life span.
Butch
Peter posted 10-25-2010 10:18 AM ET (US)
3000 hours. Wasn't unusual before the EPA stepped in to see motors with 2500 hours without problems just normal maintenance and infrequent replacement of wear items like a starter motor. The sloppy OMC cross-flow V4 is the poster child for outboard longevity. The basic design dates back to the late 1950s and production of the last interation continued into the mid to late 1990s.
Longevity is not simply about the number operating hours. A motor hanging on a transom of a trailer boat used mostly in fresh water is going to last longer and have the potential for a greater number of operating hours than the same motor hanging on the transom of a boat kept in SALT WATER 24/7/365. Where and how the motor is stored during periods of non-use is as much a factor on longevity as use.
Power to boat weight ratio is also an important factor. High power on the transom from larger displacement allows the motor to turn a higher pitch prop and the powerhead to turn lower RPM. Lower RPM means less friction, lower operating temperature, longer life at the same optimal cruise speed. I'm sure that I could get a pair of V6 150 2-strokes propped correctly to push my Whaler 27 WD along at cruise speeds 26 to 30 MPH (I rarely go much faster than that) but they'd be turning about 4500 RPM and higher to do that versus the 3700 RPM to 4000 RPM that my 225s turn to perform that work. Everything else being equal, the 150s obviously wouldn't last as many operating hours as the 225s to do the same amount of work.
jimh posted 10-25-2010 01:08 PM ET (US)
These are all interesting observations. Please keep them coming.
tedious posted 10-25-2010 01:17 PM ET (US)
Peter, for cars, Consumer Reports used to publish a value for "top gear piston travel per mile" to get at precisely the issue you mention. I have no idea whether they still do.
Tim
Peter posted 10-25-2010 02:49 PM ET (US)
Reciprocating piston aircraft engine manufacturers typically have a time before overhaul (TBO) specification. Not being a pilot, my guess is when the aircraft is flying at cruise altitude, the aircraft engine is probably run at 65 to 75 percent throttle, just like most outboard powered boats and you have some significant time at high throttle settings when climbing to cruise altitude. It seems from a quick survey that TBOs for light aircraft engines (150 to 250 HP) are typically around 1500 hours. I further guess that an aircraft engine probably spends more of its operating time at 65 to 75 percent throttle than a typical outboard motor.
I think that the operation of aircraft engines is more analogous to the operation of outboard motors on boats than operation of automobile engines in cars. Of course outboard motors are not likely to be manufactured to the same standards as aircraft engines so using an aircraft engine TBO is probably not much better than using a car engine to estimate longevity. But if we were to look to the aircraft engine longevity, then an outboard motor's TBO should be at least 1500 to 2000 hours and given that they likely have a lower average duty level, much longer than that.
contender posted 10-25-2010 06:16 PM ET (US)
Jim: What do you consider normal operation/longevity hours for an outboard? How many hours of operation and freedom of repair do you consider to be acceptable.
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones, I purchased a 1985 OMC Evinrude Looper brand new and still using it today. I do not have an hour meter but I know for fact my engine is way over the 3500 hour mark and is 25 years old no problem. I have only had small repairs (water pumps, leaking ram, plugs, lower unit seal, lower unit oil, carb rebuilds) still have the original starter, all electrical boxes/coils etc. and it still runs great.
I lived in the Fla. Keys and South Fla. where having a boat before I could drive and using it as my freedom. My mom would tow the boat to the ramp for me and my brothers around 7am during the summers (in the 60's ) and with 3-6 gallon evinrude steel tanks we would be gone all day. Just be back at the ramp at 6p she would say and be careful. We would do this 2-3 times a week sometimes more. I could not begin to count the hours we put on the engine and we would just go and go.
Being in the Keys/South Fla. you probably can go without a car but not a boat (if you are any kind of a sportsman or kid) you would depend on your boat. I guess what I'm trying to say is 3500 hrs on an engine down here would not surprise me nor be uncommon. But alot of it is how you take care of it....
jimh posted 10-26-2010 09:44 AM ET (US)
ASIDE to Contender--I will contribute my opinions later in the discussion. I have avoided throwing in my opinion in order not to influence the course of the discussion.
brisboats posted 10-27-2010 10:04 AM ET (US)
I used to think anything over 1500 hours was outstanding service from an outboard of any brand. One consideration is people tend to over estimate the number of hours of running time when an hour meter is not involved. So the dock side comment of "I must have 5000 hours on that thing" is often not accurate. Case in point my 2004 Yamaha had 308 hours on it at the beginning of this year and even though I have tried to get out as much as possible last time I looked it was still under 400. Without the telltale of the hour meter I would guess I have done well over 100 hours so far this season.
More often than not a motor is condemned from service because of something simple and not a catastraphic failure. At the boatyard we often would see motors that the owner had thrown in the towel simply because of an electrical failure. These motors were given up on more often because of the age not because of hours. Owner wanted new technology, didn't want to throw good money after bad, drank the koolaid at the boat show, etc. Manufacturers want to sell new motors and convince the consumer that the old is obselete and unreliable. But the truth is we probably could be running around would cross flow V-4's for many more decades to come.
So to answer the question I would think 3000 hours plus would represent above normal longevity.
I cannot answer the second question as I think no motor is free from unscheduled servive. Regular service is what contributes to the first part of this question. The two parts are in my opinion, inextricably intertwined.
Brian
Brian
Plotman posted 11-02-2010 07:54 PM ET (US)
There are lots of 25-30 year old motors up in this neck of the woods that I would guess get 80-100 hours per year, so I would still consider 2000-2500 in the realm of normal.
jimh posted 11-02-2010 08:05 PM ET (US)
I'll throw in my opinion:
As a consumer I expect 4-5 years of troublefree ownership of a new product. I expect a durable good to last 8-10 years before the cost of maintaining that product makes it not worth keeping. I do expect to do routine maintaince during these periods.
And, yes, I know that is exactly what captbone said. I agree with him 100-percent.
captbone posted 11-02-2010 08:16 PM ET (US)
Cheers! We are both reasonable consumers with logical demands.
newt posted 11-02-2010 09:10 PM ET (US)
In my case, repowering in kind (twin 150 hp engines) at a cost range between $20k-$30k results in a tripling or even quadrupling the investment in my boat. I realize this may be unrealistic, but I would expect 6-8 years of trouble free operation and another 6-8 years of minor expenditures. My current engines are 18 years old and run strong with some occasional wrenching. I would hope modern engines could keep pace.
fourdfish posted 11-04-2010 07:00 AM ET (US)
I'm sure we all realize that all boaters use their boats different amounts of time. One of my friends has only had his boat out 3 times in the last 2yrs and he lives in Florida.
My old 92 175hp 2S Johnson had over 1800hrs before I sold it 5 years ago. It had only one repair in 13 years and
ran well when I sold it. It is down here in Florida and is running.
My 05 200hp ETEC now has over 400hours with only one plug change.
In the last 3 years I have used my old 2 stroke 15hp to troll
instead of putting hours on the ETEC. The ETEC is running like new and I think it could easily go 2000 hrs without any MAJOR repairs. No one can really guess how long their
engines will go without repair. Saltwater does have a big impact on engine life.

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Author	Topic: Longevity of Outboard Motors; Freedom From Repair
jimh	posted 10-24-2010 12:12 PM ET (US) Please give me your opinion on how many hours of operation for an outboard motor would represent above normal longevity. Also, how many hours of operation without any repair or unschedule service must elapse before an outboard motor is considered to be above normal in freedom from repair or reliable service.
contender	posted 10-24-2010 12:31 PM ET (US) Hard question to answer, salt or fresh water. And I think the only true way to judge this would be to purchase two boats, rigged the same with the same engine, and used side by side for a period of time. The only difference would be how the owner takes care of it. But then again you are talking about something that is a combination of electrical and mechanical that are subject to parts breaks and malfunction with out the owner doing anything wrong. Example; back in 1980 I purchased a brand new Harley Davidson Motorcycle (Fat Bob) so did my friend same bike same day (different colors). We took our 1st trip across the country, His bike, headlight went out, brain boxed failed,(had to tow him for over 100 miles) inter primary bearing went, and then leaked oil. I had no problems with my bike just put gas and changed the oil... Luck of the draw, bad luck I do not know, still was a great trip and we did it again the next year...So how long should a boat engine last, I think an owner should expect 3500 hr of use with small repairs Water pumps, plugs, oil changes and throw in an electrical repair or two. Time is also a factor meaning how many hrs. per year do you put on your boat...
jimh	posted 10-24-2010 07:07 PM ET (US) If 3,500-hours of use is considered a normal outcome for the lifespan of an outboard motor, and normal boating use is only 50-hours per year, then outboard motors are expected to last 70-years, and during those 70-years the only repairs would be perhaps some small electrical items. OK, that is quite optimistic. I don't think many current readers will be around in 70-years to see if that standard of longevity is obtained.
jharrell	posted 10-24-2010 07:28 PM ET (US) To make an informed opinion on above normal longevity one would have to know what normal longevity is for an outboard. The closest thing I can find on outboard reliability stats is JD Power findings on "Problems per 100 motors". [Changed TOPIC to impute some sort of special endorsement from me about J.D. Power results. See my reply below--jimh] [J.D. Power findings on reliablity] updated in 2009 here: http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/news/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2009023 and include the following reliability statistics for outboards: "The study finds that the average number of problems has steadily declined for both DI and EFI outboard engine types since 2005. In 2009, DI engines average 73 PP100, compared with 87 PP100 in 2005. Additionally, EFI outboard engines perform notably better in 2009 with 51 PP100, compared with 73 PP100 in 2005." Of course it does not break down by brand, they only do this for owner satisfaction, which is somewhat more subjective. [Changed TOPIC to make conclusions about cause of reliability. This is a fine topic but here we are just looking for an opinion about reliability. We can have another discussion about what elements of design of engines engenders reliability--jimh] For me I would say there is not enough information available to consider any brand to have above normal freedom from repair or reliable service. They all seem to have improved in reliability over the years, and all have quite good reliability.
contender	posted 10-24-2010 08:00 PM ET (US) Jim: Hours on a outboard depends on were you live, down in South Fla a hard core boater could do 300-500 hrs a year no problem and maybe more (year round boating). I can understand up north your boating season is probably 4-5 months and you live mostly on lakes (except east and west coast) so a 2-3 hour run to your fishing hole is very uncommon...
jimh	posted 10-24-2010 09:04 PM ET (US) If average use is 500-hours per year, then 3,500-hours would be accumulated in just seven years. So now we have a range of the longevity of an outboard from 7 to 70-years.
jimh	posted 10-24-2010 09:39 PM ET (US) [For some reason my recent topics all seem to be dragged off into new discussions. I would like to keep this one very simple. Accordingly, I have removed some sidebar topics.--jimh] I do respect the data collected by J. D. Power--it is some of only data available to the public on engine satisfaction--but I am more interested in people's opinions. Opinions of informed boaters who are participating here are more interesting to me.
Tohsgib	posted 10-24-2010 11:54 PM ET (US) "If 3,500-hours of use is considered a normal outcome for the lifespan of an outboard motor, and normal boating use is only 50-hours per year, then outboard motors are expected to last 70-years, and during those 70-years the only repairs would be perhaps some small electrical items. OK, that is quite optimistic. I don't think many current readers will be around in 70-years to see if that standard of longevity is obtained." That is one of the most asinine paragraphs I have read in years Jim. There are PLENTY of cars from 1940 that are still running and considered dependable....obviously....MEDIC!
L H G	posted 10-25-2010 01:43 AM ET (US) I think "Blue Water Pirate" just reported 3750 trouble free hours on a Boston Whaler rigged 225 Optimax. For years, I have found my boating habits produce about 300 hours per year, sometimes more. I have a pair of Mercury 200 EFI's, purchased new 13 years ago. They now have over 2500 hours on each (I have hour meters), 1/2 fresh, 1/2 salt, with no service except the following: in 3rd year, a power trim motor failed, and was replaced under the 5 year extended warranty. The other engine had a rectifier go bad at about 8 years, about a $150 repair. That's it, nada. For routine service, I replace impellers every 300 hours, gear oil about every 150. Plugs only as needed, and they last a long time, no gaping required. I use Mercury QuickClean every 4th tank. Last winter I had them checked out. Head gaskets good, fuel injectors good, and compression perfect, like new (on Pennzoil/Walmart oil no less!). Mechanic said I'm good for another ten years. We'll see.
power2boat	posted 10-25-2010 02:01 AM ET (US) CONTENDER is right.Depends on where you live and how much time your motor is used.It is easy to put 500 hours on outboards if used in the warmer climates per season. Also consider private or charter.Commercial operators can put 1000 to 2000/month per season. My Suzuki dealer has striped down and rebuilt a 4 stroke after 6000 hours.
pcrussell50	posted 10-25-2010 02:29 AM ET (US) You guys are just finding creative ways around the incontrovertible fact that kalbus and I already know... V4 crossflow... baby! Smoky, gas guzzling, sloppy* and old. BUT: simple as children's wood blocks, reliable as an anvil, and nothing can touch it in power-to-weight ratio. :) *"sloppy" came from kalbus in the ETEC durability thread -Peter
jimh	posted 10-25-2010 05:17 AM ET (US) I'll interpret that as meaning for the OMC V4 longevity would be "forever."
captbone	posted 10-25-2010 08:34 AM ET (US) I dont think the longevity can be broken down into hours of use like we do with miles on a car. I think of it more in terms of years regardless of how many hours you put on the vessel (within reason and recreational use). As pointed out the average use per year is very low and it would take decades for the engine to wear out. I would rather put 100 hours a year on my engine instead of 10 hours. The running of marine engines helps longevity instead of sitting in a saltwater environment. As a consumer I expect 4-5 years of troublefree ownership of a new product. I expect a durable good to last 8-10 years before the cost of maintaining that product makes it not worth keeping. I do expect to do routine maintaince during these periods.
pcrussell50	posted 10-25-2010 09:49 AM ET (US) Whoops. When I painted CWW member "kalbus" as a v4 crossflow fan, I meant to invoke CWW member, "adlert". I hate to create more work for you Jim, but if our posts were editable, I would fix it myself. -Peter
Jefecinco	posted 10-25-2010 10:01 AM ET (US) I don't believe 3,500 hours is too far off the mark. A local bait shop and launch ramp owner also commercially fishes or trawls for shrimp which is the preferred bait in our area. His preference is four stroke Yamaha engines. I was discussing reliability with him while he was repairing a lower unit last year. Actually I was teasing him about how his super-duper reliable Yamaha seemed to have let him down. He said he puts over 500 hours a year on his engines and that they are very hard hours pulling trawls for the most part. He also said he has learned to replace his engines at about seven or eight year intervals as they begin to develop problems if used in hard service for longer periods. This gentleman does not lavish care on his engines. Annual oil and filter changes are about what he does. Anything else gets attention when required. From that single data source I'll conclude that 5,000 hours would be toward the outer limit of expected longevity from an outboard engine and that 3,500 would be a comfortable number to use for a reasonable life span. Butch
Peter	posted 10-25-2010 10:18 AM ET (US) 3000 hours. Wasn't unusual before the EPA stepped in to see motors with 2500 hours without problems just normal maintenance and infrequent replacement of wear items like a starter motor. The sloppy OMC cross-flow V4 is the poster child for outboard longevity. The basic design dates back to the late 1950s and production of the last interation continued into the mid to late 1990s. Longevity is not simply about the number operating hours. A motor hanging on a transom of a trailer boat used mostly in fresh water is going to last longer and have the potential for a greater number of operating hours than the same motor hanging on the transom of a boat kept in SALT WATER 24/7/365. Where and how the motor is stored during periods of non-use is as much a factor on longevity as use. Power to boat weight ratio is also an important factor. High power on the transom from larger displacement allows the motor to turn a higher pitch prop and the powerhead to turn lower RPM. Lower RPM means less friction, lower operating temperature, longer life at the same optimal cruise speed. I'm sure that I could get a pair of V6 150 2-strokes propped correctly to push my Whaler 27 WD along at cruise speeds 26 to 30 MPH (I rarely go much faster than that) but they'd be turning about 4500 RPM and higher to do that versus the 3700 RPM to 4000 RPM that my 225s turn to perform that work. Everything else being equal, the 150s obviously wouldn't last as many operating hours as the 225s to do the same amount of work.
jimh	posted 10-25-2010 01:08 PM ET (US) These are all interesting observations. Please keep them coming.
tedious	posted 10-25-2010 01:17 PM ET (US) Peter, for cars, Consumer Reports used to publish a value for "top gear piston travel per mile" to get at precisely the issue you mention. I have no idea whether they still do. Tim
Peter	posted 10-25-2010 02:49 PM ET (US) Reciprocating piston aircraft engine manufacturers typically have a time before overhaul (TBO) specification. Not being a pilot, my guess is when the aircraft is flying at cruise altitude, the aircraft engine is probably run at 65 to 75 percent throttle, just like most outboard powered boats and you have some significant time at high throttle settings when climbing to cruise altitude. It seems from a quick survey that TBOs for light aircraft engines (150 to 250 HP) are typically around 1500 hours. I further guess that an aircraft engine probably spends more of its operating time at 65 to 75 percent throttle than a typical outboard motor. I think that the operation of aircraft engines is more analogous to the operation of outboard motors on boats than operation of automobile engines in cars. Of course outboard motors are not likely to be manufactured to the same standards as aircraft engines so using an aircraft engine TBO is probably not much better than using a car engine to estimate longevity. But if we were to look to the aircraft engine longevity, then an outboard motor's TBO should be at least 1500 to 2000 hours and given that they likely have a lower average duty level, much longer than that.
contender	posted 10-25-2010 06:16 PM ET (US) Jim: What do you consider normal operation/longevity hours for an outboard? How many hours of operation and freedom of repair do you consider to be acceptable. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones, I purchased a 1985 OMC Evinrude Looper brand new and still using it today. I do not have an hour meter but I know for fact my engine is way over the 3500 hour mark and is 25 years old no problem. I have only had small repairs (water pumps, leaking ram, plugs, lower unit seal, lower unit oil, carb rebuilds) still have the original starter, all electrical boxes/coils etc. and it still runs great. I lived in the Fla. Keys and South Fla. where having a boat before I could drive and using it as my freedom. My mom would tow the boat to the ramp for me and my brothers around 7am during the summers (in the 60's ) and with 3-6 gallon evinrude steel tanks we would be gone all day. Just be back at the ramp at 6p she would say and be careful. We would do this 2-3 times a week sometimes more. I could not begin to count the hours we put on the engine and we would just go and go. Being in the Keys/South Fla. you probably can go without a car but not a boat (if you are any kind of a sportsman or kid) you would depend on your boat. I guess what I'm trying to say is 3500 hrs on an engine down here would not surprise me nor be uncommon. But alot of it is how you take care of it....
jimh	posted 10-26-2010 09:44 AM ET (US) ASIDE to Contender--I will contribute my opinions later in the discussion. I have avoided throwing in my opinion in order not to influence the course of the discussion.
brisboats	posted 10-27-2010 10:04 AM ET (US) I used to think anything over 1500 hours was outstanding service from an outboard of any brand. One consideration is people tend to over estimate the number of hours of running time when an hour meter is not involved. So the dock side comment of "I must have 5000 hours on that thing" is often not accurate. Case in point my 2004 Yamaha had 308 hours on it at the beginning of this year and even though I have tried to get out as much as possible last time I looked it was still under 400. Without the telltale of the hour meter I would guess I have done well over 100 hours so far this season. More often than not a motor is condemned from service because of something simple and not a catastraphic failure. At the boatyard we often would see motors that the owner had thrown in the towel simply because of an electrical failure. These motors were given up on more often because of the age not because of hours. Owner wanted new technology, didn't want to throw good money after bad, drank the koolaid at the boat show, etc. Manufacturers want to sell new motors and convince the consumer that the old is obselete and unreliable. But the truth is we probably could be running around would cross flow V-4's for many more decades to come. So to answer the question I would think 3000 hours plus would represent above normal longevity. I cannot answer the second question as I think no motor is free from unscheduled servive. Regular service is what contributes to the first part of this question. The two parts are in my opinion, inextricably intertwined. Brian Brian
Plotman	posted 11-02-2010 07:54 PM ET (US) There are lots of 25-30 year old motors up in this neck of the woods that I would guess get 80-100 hours per year, so I would still consider 2000-2500 in the realm of normal.
jimh	posted 11-02-2010 08:05 PM ET (US) I'll throw in my opinion: As a consumer I expect 4-5 years of troublefree ownership of a new product. I expect a durable good to last 8-10 years before the cost of maintaining that product makes it not worth keeping. I do expect to do routine maintaince during these periods. And, yes, I know that is exactly what captbone said. I agree with him 100-percent.
captbone	posted 11-02-2010 08:16 PM ET (US) Cheers! We are both reasonable consumers with logical demands.
newt	posted 11-02-2010 09:10 PM ET (US) In my case, repowering in kind (twin 150 hp engines) at a cost range between $20k-$30k results in a tripling or even quadrupling the investment in my boat. I realize this may be unrealistic, but I would expect 6-8 years of trouble free operation and another 6-8 years of minor expenditures. My current engines are 18 years old and run strong with some occasional wrenching. I would hope modern engines could keep pace.
fourdfish	posted 11-04-2010 07:00 AM ET (US) I'm sure we all realize that all boaters use their boats different amounts of time. One of my friends has only had his boat out 3 times in the last 2yrs and he lives in Florida. My old 92 175hp 2S Johnson had over 1800hrs before I sold it 5 years ago. It had only one repair in 13 years and ran well when I sold it. It is down here in Florida and is running. My 05 200hp ETEC now has over 400hours with only one plug change. In the last 3 years I have used my old 2 stroke 15hp to troll instead of putting hours on the ETEC. The ETEC is running like new and I think it could easily go 2000 hrs without any MAJOR repairs. No one can really guess how long their engines will go without repair. Saltwater does have a big impact on engine life.