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Author Topic:   DEFIANCE 34 Steering

Andras posted 12-02-2009 10:13 AM ET (US)
I have a 2001 Boston Whaler Defiance 34'. [I] love the boat and layout, but steering has been a real problem. I am a [boater with 40-year's-experience] and have had many boats. In idle going straight, taken out of gear and [the Boston Whaler DEFIANCE 34] almost immediately goes port. To straighten it out, you have to put [the port engine] in forward and because nothing happens, it goes even more port, in fact, You have to put starboard in forward and rev engine to about 1,500-RPM to finally make it start straightening out.
Also, at 3,000-RPM going straight, you want to go port, turn the wheel, nothing happens so you turn it even more, you may have to turn the wheel all the way to port and she still is either very slow to react or if you want it to react faster you slow down and then she turns. Like an old car with all the ball joints worn and there is big slop in the steering. My 60-foot [Egg Harbor boat] was like a sports car. [The Boston Whaler DEFIANCE 34] is far worse then the old Cadillac sedans; it just wanders down the road, zig zag.
If you are in a 5-MPH zone and want to go straight, it is a real effort to keep her going straight, you are constantly correcting the steering, or take one engine out of gear power up on the other etc. If I cannot fix the problem I will sell the boat, but I really love the layout, lot of fishing room versus too much creature comfort etc. I never used to use my steering in a harbor, just take one engine out of gear and the boat turns, with this BW you have to use steering engine and she still has her mind as to where she wants to go, it is a real effort to drive her at any speed.
I have checked fluid, it is okay. I put on 80-percent bigger rudders, with very little difference, and only at trolling speed. I checked the shaft: they turn correctly. I have dripless shaft seals, so no drag there. I am stuck, any ideas anyone?
Andy
handn posted 12-02-2009 07:35 PM ET (US)
Check your steering cylinder. I find they wear out quickly.
Check for leaks in the cylinder and the rudder response.
If your boat is in the water have someone dive and observe the rudder response when you turn the wheel over hard.
It is possible your rudders are not aligned. Have the diver check that the rudders are both straight and aligned with each other when the wheel is dead center. A bent rudder is a possibility if the boat has been grounded.
How does the boat respond in auto pilot?
If the boat turns to port when you take both engines out of gear, it is possible that the starboard engine shifts out of gear more slowly than the port engine.
Your problem sounds so bad that there has to be a mechanical malfunction rather than a bad handling boat. Good luck in finding it.
jimh posted 12-02-2009 10:35 PM ET (US)
What is the trim on the boat at idle speeds? Your narrative of the hull's behavior sounds like it has trim down by the bow, and the hull is bow-steering.
Boston Whaler's experience is primarily in outboard powered boats, and the DEFIANCE 34 is one of the few models ever designed with inboard engines and straight shafts. If I recall correctly, I believe there were some problems with the hull trim, and lead ballast was added to help correct the static trim.
Tom W Clark posted 12-02-2009 11:45 PM ET (US)
Lead ballast was added to the early Whaler 31 models. I do not believe the 34' Defiance model suffered the same fate.
I'd check for slop in the steering system itself first.
boatdryver posted 12-03-2009 10:40 AM ET (US)
Hey, Andras
This is a really interesting problem. Please don't just disappear on us. Come back with the diagnosis and solution
JimL
BMR posted 12-04-2009 12:25 PM ET (US)
A comment has been made that the rudders should be straight and parallel to each other. This is not correct for all inboard installations. In many cases, rudders will be toed-in or have the leading edges closer together that that trailing edges. The amount of toe required depends on a number of factors including hull dynamics, engine shaft center line vs. the rudders, rudder design and steering systems. From what I know, the Defiance should have rudders that are toed in.
jimh posted 12-06-2009 03:51 PM ET (US)
Inasmuch as my experience with twin engine installations has been primarily--almost exclusively--with outboard boats, it never occurred to me that on a traditional inboard boat with straight shafts and rudders that there would be a concern regarding rudder toe-in or toe-out. Thanks very much for raising awareness of this consideration.
Adding to the list of questions for our initial author, I have to inquire about the technique used to link the rudders in the Boston Whaler DEFIANCE 34. Are the rudders linked mechanically with a tie bar? Or is a hydraulic link used?
In either case there could be a problem in the alignment with regard to toe-in or toe-out.
Andras posted 12-06-2009 11:38 PM ET (US)
Thank you very much to all who responded. And, yes the DEFIANCE 34 has a toe-in rudder set up.
I have tried a couple of things--no luck yet. My next move is to lighten the bow, via removing anchor chain, and to check out out the steering cylinder and all related hydraulic steering gear.
And lastly, if I have to add ballast in the stern, I am having an naval engineer come on the boat, do a test ride, and troubleshoot.
I hope between all of your ideas and his ideas, a solution will come up. I am even ready to haul the boatt and add a keel, like on a Tiara, to improve tracking. I am not sure if that is as doable as it sounds.
Andy

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Author	Topic: DEFIANCE 34 Steering
Andras	posted 12-02-2009 10:13 AM ET (US) I have a 2001 Boston Whaler Defiance 34'. [I] love the boat and layout, but steering has been a real problem. I am a [boater with 40-year's-experience] and have had many boats. In idle going straight, taken out of gear and [the Boston Whaler DEFIANCE 34] almost immediately goes port. To straighten it out, you have to put [the port engine] in forward and because nothing happens, it goes even more port, in fact, You have to put starboard in forward and rev engine to about 1,500-RPM to finally make it start straightening out. Also, at 3,000-RPM going straight, you want to go port, turn the wheel, nothing happens so you turn it even more, you may have to turn the wheel all the way to port and she still is either very slow to react or if you want it to react faster you slow down and then she turns. Like an old car with all the ball joints worn and there is big slop in the steering. My 60-foot [Egg Harbor boat] was like a sports car. [The Boston Whaler DEFIANCE 34] is far worse then the old Cadillac sedans; it just wanders down the road, zig zag. If you are in a 5-MPH zone and want to go straight, it is a real effort to keep her going straight, you are constantly correcting the steering, or take one engine out of gear power up on the other etc. If I cannot fix the problem I will sell the boat, but I really love the layout, lot of fishing room versus too much creature comfort etc. I never used to use my steering in a harbor, just take one engine out of gear and the boat turns, with this BW you have to use steering engine and she still has her mind as to where she wants to go, it is a real effort to drive her at any speed. I have checked fluid, it is okay. I put on 80-percent bigger rudders, with very little difference, and only at trolling speed. I checked the shaft: they turn correctly. I have dripless shaft seals, so no drag there. I am stuck, any ideas anyone? Andy
handn	posted 12-02-2009 07:35 PM ET (US) Check your steering cylinder. I find they wear out quickly. Check for leaks in the cylinder and the rudder response. If your boat is in the water have someone dive and observe the rudder response when you turn the wheel over hard. It is possible your rudders are not aligned. Have the diver check that the rudders are both straight and aligned with each other when the wheel is dead center. A bent rudder is a possibility if the boat has been grounded. How does the boat respond in auto pilot? If the boat turns to port when you take both engines out of gear, it is possible that the starboard engine shifts out of gear more slowly than the port engine. Your problem sounds so bad that there has to be a mechanical malfunction rather than a bad handling boat. Good luck in finding it.
jimh	posted 12-02-2009 10:35 PM ET (US) What is the trim on the boat at idle speeds? Your narrative of the hull's behavior sounds like it has trim down by the bow, and the hull is bow-steering. Boston Whaler's experience is primarily in outboard powered boats, and the DEFIANCE 34 is one of the few models ever designed with inboard engines and straight shafts. If I recall correctly, I believe there were some problems with the hull trim, and lead ballast was added to help correct the static trim.
Tom W Clark	posted 12-02-2009 11:45 PM ET (US) Lead ballast was added to the early Whaler 31 models. I do not believe the 34' Defiance model suffered the same fate. I'd check for slop in the steering system itself first.
boatdryver	posted 12-03-2009 10:40 AM ET (US) Hey, Andras This is a really interesting problem. Please don't just disappear on us. Come back with the diagnosis and solution JimL
BMR	posted 12-04-2009 12:25 PM ET (US) A comment has been made that the rudders should be straight and parallel to each other. This is not correct for all inboard installations. In many cases, rudders will be toed-in or have the leading edges closer together that that trailing edges. The amount of toe required depends on a number of factors including hull dynamics, engine shaft center line vs. the rudders, rudder design and steering systems. From what I know, the Defiance should have rudders that are toed in.
jimh	posted 12-06-2009 03:51 PM ET (US) Inasmuch as my experience with twin engine installations has been primarily--almost exclusively--with outboard boats, it never occurred to me that on a traditional inboard boat with straight shafts and rudders that there would be a concern regarding rudder toe-in or toe-out. Thanks very much for raising awareness of this consideration. Adding to the list of questions for our initial author, I have to inquire about the technique used to link the rudders in the Boston Whaler DEFIANCE 34. Are the rudders linked mechanically with a tie bar? Or is a hydraulic link used? In either case there could be a problem in the alignment with regard to toe-in or toe-out.
Andras	posted 12-06-2009 11:38 PM ET (US) Thank you very much to all who responded. And, yes the DEFIANCE 34 has a toe-in rudder set up. I have tried a couple of things--no luck yet. My next move is to lighten the bow, via removing anchor chain, and to check out out the steering cylinder and all related hydraulic steering gear. And lastly, if I have to add ballast in the stern, I am having an naval engineer come on the boat, do a test ride, and troubleshoot. I hope between all of your ideas and his ideas, a solution will come up. I am even ready to haul the boatt and add a keel, like on a Tiara, to improve tracking. I am not sure if that is as doable as it sounds. Andy