posted 11-01-2002 10:24 PM ET (US)        

A tournament conducted February, 2002 in Alabama featured a purse of over $3-million, the largest in professional fishing history. The M1 RANGER, FLW WAL-MART bass fishing tournament was limited to fishermen using Ranger boats,
but the competitors boats were powered by an assortment of engines, including Yamahas and Evinrudes, as well as the premium Mercury Optimax engine.

These tournament fishermen put their boats and engines to the test. In four days of fishing it is not unusual for a contestant to run almost 600 miles. Typically the pattern is to leave the starting area at high speed, head to the chosen fishing grounds, fish an area, run at high speed to a new area, and repeat this pattern over and over. Contestants must return to the starting line by a predetermined time each day, often demanding that they make prolonged runs at 50-MPH or more. Of course, the quicker one can make the return trip, the more time can be spent fishing, so speed is at a premium. Reliable engine operation is essential.

As can happen in February, the temperature during the tournament was quite cold, and this apparently created a problem for some of the outboards. According to one published report, "the Optimax Mercury engines coughed, choked, and crapped out, one after the other."

Mercury cited the cold weather and the quick acceleration used by some skippers as the cause of the failures. Thermostats clogged with debris and stuck open also were blamed for causing some engines to be unable to warm to operating temperature, precipitating problems. The exact number of failures is unknown, but thought to be about five engines. The failures were not just rough running problems; some engines blew their powerheads.

To head off the public relations disaster, Brunswick CEO Buckley reportedly ordered a chartered jet filled with spare parts and mechanics to be flown to the tournament location.

The ultimate tournament winner received a $700,000 prize. The engine that propelled him to these amaxzing riches: A Bombardier/Evinrude Ficht 2-stroke.

posted 11-02-2002 05:59 PM ET (US)            

My logic is this: Why take the chance??

Both motors have shown to be problematic from the start, with some cases of improved reliability as the R&D folks work out the kinks. But, WHY bother being the Guinea Pig for these manufacturers? Yamaha's, although my no means perfect, just do not have the reliability problems that Fichts or Optimax's do.

I don't care what rare cases someone might bring up in a follow up post, I'm sorry, this is true. Speak to mechanics at dealers that deal in both motors, and I am sure they will say, "get the Yamaha's".

If you go with a Evinrude Carb's or Merc Carb'd motor, that is another story all together, but the EFI's (DFI's etc etc) are not working well enough for me to plunk down $15K.

May the games begin.

posted 11-03-2002 10:22 AM ET (US)            

I wonder, too, if the way these engines are operated might have an affect on their longevity. The professional bass fisherman is probably able to get a new engine every year on the transom of his boat for much less than the full retail price. With a new engine every year, there is probably a tendency to be harder on the engine than most boaters.

I know that if I had just spent $15,000 for an outboard, I am going to baby it a bit. I want to make it last as long as possible.

posted 11-03-2002 04:14 PM ET (US)            

The technology is simply ahead of the mechanics who work on the motors.

To fix a sensor (the root of most problems on Ficht and Optimax motors), a mechanic MUST have the expensive laptop and software required by Bombardier/Mercury. How many mechanics do you know who can afford to invest in $3000 worth of computer software to fix 20% of the motors he will see in a lifetime?

That being said, I own a 2001 Optimax. Besides sensor problems, I LOVE the motor. It is almost as quiet as a 4-stroke, is amazing on fuel and oil, and doesn't smoke.

posted 11-04-2002 10:18 AM ET (US)            

DFI outboards are obviously much more complicated than "old tech" carb 2 stroke motors, so it stands to reason that there would be more problems with them, at least in the first few years. I would be reluctant to buy one as well, and if I did, I would get an extended warranty if available. But there are plenty of happy owners of DFI outboards out there.

posted 11-04-2002 12:06 PM ET (US)            

They used to sell Johnson/Evenrude but not anymore due to the over whelming service work for Mercs. It has become big business for them. They generate more revenue on Mercury repairs than they do on boat sales.

As a side note, I know 2 other dealers. Both sell Merc., Johnson/Evenrude and Yamaha. They both have told me countless times that they are not in the “service business” so they push Yamahas. They also report that a used boat with a Yamaha will bring quit a premium over a Merc. By the way one of these dealers is a Whaler Master dealer.

I have had no problems with any carburetor brand of engine and after reports like this post, it makes me feel better that my new 4 stroke Yamaha is a carburetor model.

posted 11-04-2002 01:35 PM ET (US)            

You can't really make a judgement about the actual product reliability from an incident like this unless you know the total numbers involved. Maybe these five or so engines are the only ones ever known to fail in cold weather conditions. Of course, you'll never see a public disclosure of the statistics, except perhaps in a lawsuit.

Another rumor has it that settlements with owners require non-disclosure. The engine makers protect their reputation with silence from the owners as part of the repair compensation. Again, this is just a rumor.

Some of this reminds me of the automobile market back in the 1980's. The Japanese makers would often perform free repairs on customer's Japanese cars without their knowledge. A car would come in for a 5,000 mile courtesy check up, and anything and everything on it would be fixed, repaired, replaced, at no charge and without telling the car owner. The result was the building of a legendary reputation for reliability and freedom from repair for certain brands.

In actual fact, the cars where not as free from defects or as reliable as the customer thought, but the reputation was being built.

posted 11-04-2002 04:08 PM ET (US)            

If you go with a . . . Carb'd motor, that is another story all together, but the EFI's (DFI's etc etc)...

EFI (Electronic Fuel Injection) and DFI (Direct Fuel Injection) are two different things. EFI has to do with how you introduce fuel into the air flowing into the engine. DFI involves injection into the already compressed air in the combustion chamber.

EFI has been around since at least 1980 on automobiles, and is a well understood and very reliable technology. It is the DFI that is under discussion here. I would not lump EFI in with it just because it involves the words 'Fuel Injection'.

posted 11-05-2002 11:20 PM ET (US)            

Ironically, my article which has begun this thread was copied and re-published in its entirety to another forum without my permission and without even proper attribution.

If there is a good article somewhere else, you should get a copy of it from the author/publisher. It that means you have to buy the magazine, well, that is the price of that article.

posted 11-06-2002 04:03 PM ET (US)            

Although I have never recognized any photos reproduced from this site, I am sure it happens. Many websites put some sort of "trademark" on their pictures to avoid this.

posted 11-07-2002 12:29 PM ET (US)            

The Bombardier representative touted improved manufacturing tolerances, extended warranties, and better customer support in the event of DFI problems. They said that the early OMC Ficht engines were a disaster for the boating public. [Boy, is that an understatement!] The reliability of their new DFI's? "Excellent."

The staff at the Yamaha booth indicated that the first HPDI's had plug fouling problems. (He wouldn't elaborate on the extent of those "problems.") Those, apparently, were corrected by replacing the [ignition coils?]. No problems since according to them.

Honda? "We've been producing 4-strokes all along...they are the best!" It's was the old "thing speaks for itself" routine. No problems reported.

Mercury? According to the representative with whom I spoke: The very first Optimax engines were "good." Apparently, changes in the injectors and engine computers were made which resulted in some "issues." Now, the "highest quality and most expensive" injectors and computers are being installed. "No major problems in the past six months" was his claim. In fact, he continued by proudly reporting that there were less warranty claims for the new 225 Optimax than for the 5HP portable on a stand nearby. The Mercury folks focused on their corrosion protection system as well: "Superior."

posted 11-08-2002 11:49 AM ET (US)            

I would admit to having it as my desktop wallpaper, but will not on the grounds that I may incriminate myself.

posted 11-11-2002 02:06 PM ET (US)            

The photo of my boat is on Cetacea page 40 http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage40.html

The best way to see what photos are in the Cetacea Section is to use the Photo Log http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/photoLog.html which lists every photo that is included in Cetacea.

I don’t mind if someone wants to use the photo of my boat for wallpaper or some other personal use. In fact, after it was first posted I emailed dozens of the full size digital image (1561 x 1004, 494k) to those who requested it. But it’s not cool to post a photo that’s not yours on the internet without asking for and receiving permission to do so.

posted 11-13-2002 05:14 PM ET (US)            

I don't recall hearing of any specific deals with Optimax engines and non-disclosure.

posted 11-13-2002 05:32 PM ET (US)         

Surely your not going to crank up this "Lawyers"/Optimax issues again. Now ARE you?

posted 11-13-2002 06:57 PM ET (US)            

http://www.whaler.com/cgp/whaler_cgp.asp?id=product

posted 11-18-2002 11:32 PM ET (US)            

Once I was able to attain the assistance of Boat US and the appropriate level of management at Mercury, the problem solved itself within 2 weeks. When I bought the boat (not to go back into this, this is certainly in an archive somewhere) it was 11 months old. It had a more hours on it than represented by the dealer -- I bought it directly from the Main Dealer. The engines were warranted as trouble free. They were not. They had over 14 catastrophic failures between the pair. The dealer lied -- plain and simple. The surveyor did not have a DDT/computer to download the data. I guess Mercury check the story, checked the warranty history -- presumably my other claims of failure to get service on an acceptable basis anywhere, and sent me new motors. New 5 year warranties. No cost on re-rigging and prompt and faithful service by Russo Marine in Medford.

My boat -- the much maligned 26 Outrage. It does have a roughish ride, but I have also now had it out in standing 8 footers in Buzzards Bay leaving the Canal (anyone who has experience of this will vouch for the pucker factor). I have been Bluefin fishing in it on the Stellwagen Bank. I have run 30 miles in 3 foot slop to bag some 45 inch striped bass off of Cuttyhunk. I have had enough green water in the cockpit that might have caused problem for lesser boats (on the Race outside P-town -- not exactly planned). The boat has performed flawlessly and the new motors too. The boat is VERY safe and stable, dry too, with plenty of reserve bouancy in the bow to rise over most all but the steepest waves. But a super deep V ride it does not have.

Where did I go? I did not use this board to get what I wanted then leave. I perceive that this board is oriented toward "Classic" whalers and their owners and is somewhat disparaging towards boats such as mine, with the unfortunate genetics to have been built in the year 2000. Accordingly, I have not posted or visited here in quite a while. Please note that I started drifted away long before Mercury agreed to solve my problem -- a few too many posts blindly parroting Pascoe on matters and about a boat they know nothing about. Oh, and the 26 does NOT have a cut-away hull under the motor well like an Armstrong bracket. Really. Honest.

I appreciate jimh sending me the link to this thread, although it depresses me that the issue is still out there. Mercury still have a lot of 'splaining to do (Lucy). I would likely not buy one if I had the choice. But I don't and the new ones seem fine.

posted 11-19-2002 06:04 AM ET (US)            

With all due respect you had many people willing to help you with their own time. I forget who it was but someone offered to organize everyone sending personal letters to Mercury regarding your plight.
You did fall off the face of the earth, and the apperance that you were told to "hush up" in order to get new motors was not only my opinion but that of others here too.
Personally, I do think you used this board to gain an audience for your problem. FWIW, there is a specific section here too to discuss post-classic Whalers too.

posted 08-16-2004 12:24 AM ET (US)            

I heard a similar story that plagued E-Tec's recently installed, in tourist boats, in the Caribbean channels here in Costa Rica. For some reason or other the E-tecs burnt the powerheads and the local dealer responded quickly to replace them but not the entire motor!

For some reason the stratified charge puts too much stress on the powerhead, perhaps due to the high heat of the lean burn of the mixture, the little oil to fuel ratios, etc.

Perhaps the sensors become baffled by the unusual conditions of the tropics and poorly maintained channels, commercial use, high sulphur content of the fuel, etc.

posted 03-11-2009 02:25 PM ET (US)            

This thread is 6 years old.

posted 03-18-2009 07:21 AM ET (US)            

I used nothing but the Mercury Opti DFI Oil, quickleen every other tank, changed the fuel and oil filters every 150 hours, the waterpump every 500 hours and the lower unit oil every 150 hours. Getting ready to repower with a new Opti.