posted 09-30-2007 10:14 PM ET (US)            

quote:

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"I have a 2007 115 and it has been...

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posted 09-30-2007 11:01 PM ET (US)            

quote:

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"I believe they are referred to as L4NA's."

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Mercury does not use the designation L4NA in any literature that I have seen. I have seen Boston Whaler use this designation for the Mercury FourStroke motor. But I have never seen this designation used by Mercury.

To honor the Verado heritage of these motors, I call them VERADITOS, which is a Spanish diminutive for Verado.

As far as I can tell the Mercury designation for these motors is "FourStroke".

As for the motor, they are relatively new and there is not much history reported on them. And, unfortunately, there are now two anecdotal reports of problems with them related to their electronic system and spurious alarm BEEP's.

Cf.:
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/005730.html
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/013669.html

I presented my impressions of the motor as seen at a boat show in

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/005118.html

Although I still think they are rather large motors, I must be getting inured to the proportions of these new motors, and they are starting to grow on me. Or maybe I should say they are starting to shrink on me. Well, in any case, having seen more of them on boats and been out on the water for a few hours with one, my reaction to their size has lessened from my original sighting.

The notion that they are just a Verado without the supercharger is not quite accurate, and particularly now that the Verado of old has been superseded by a new model, the Verado Gen2. These Veradito motors are based on the old Verado, but my impression is they are using some lighter duty components in the engine. If you read the Mercury literature they mention some of the components which are the same. I think it is reasonable to presume that the components not mentioned as being the same are therefore different. (I was trying to find the exact components mentioned as identical, but I couldn't find the source I was recalling.)

On the 170 MONTAUK I do not think you really have any options. You get the 90-HP Veradito and that's it.

In terms of a 90-HP four-stroke naturally aspirated motor, it will deliver the usual performance, viz.:

--should have good idle and smooth running characteristic
--should have excellent fuel economy
--should have modest performance in terms of acceleration

Most four-stroke motors have turned to something extra to boost performance. The "something extra" has fallen into three categories:

--extra displacement
--extra cam lobes
--extra induction pressure

Four-stroke makers like Suzuki have tended to make their four-stroke motors have larger displacement in order to deliver performance. In this regard the 90-HP Mercury at 105-cubic-inch or 1.7-liter displacement is fairly generous for a 90-HP motor.

Many four-stroke motors feature variable cam phasing, sometimes called variable valve timing, to enhance performance. Yamaha and Honda use this on their four-stroke motors, but usually not on the 90-HP models. The Veradito does not have variable cam phasing. In one regard this is a positive because it eliminates a lot of added complexity to the valve train. On the other hand, variable cam phasing is now very common in four-stroke motors as a performance enhancement, and not having it can be seen as a missed opportunity for better performance.

Boosting induction pressure or supercharging is the realm of the Verado, so of course we don't find it on the Veradito. But as we have learned from the Verado, to get this basic engine design to have the raw power and acceleration of a two-stroke, it needs a supercharger. Without a supercharger, it is not going to be the same motor. Or course, with a supercharger you can crank the rating to 200-HP, so one way to look at this 90-HP model is just to consider it a 200-HP motor without the supercharger. Or is that too much rationalization and circular logic? You tell me.

I think the Veradito is going to be a good motor for Whaler and the 170 MONTUAK. While it is rather large, I think customers will be pleased with the fuel economy and smooth running characteristics, and this will overcome any negatives in the raw performance and acceleration, where I think the Veradito will be lacking somewhat compared to other power choices.

It is certainly going to be an improvement over the old Mercury 90-HP four-stroke with carburetors, which has a reputation for being cantankerous about fuel problems with the carburetor jets.

posted 09-30-2007 11:07 PM ET (US)            

I know that both have 90 horsepower but it seems like the L4NA has more power. Both have the same gearing 2.33:1 but the L4NA spins a 20 pitch prop and the older model only spun an 18 inch prop at 6,000 rpm.

I also notice that the L4NA gets better fuel mileage. I used to get about 4 mpg on my ocean fishing trips and now I get about 5 mpg. I suppose that means 25% better mpg.

Also my 90 hp L4NA is the same block (1732cc) as the 200 horsepower Verado.

I hope the L4NA turns out to be bulletproof. Only time will tell.

You'll love the new 170 Montauk with the L4NA.

posted 10-01-2007 08:47 AM ET (US)            

Mercury says the 90-HP motor they are currently making is a 90-HP FourStroke EFI.

Whaler invented the designator L4NA to help. I invented the designator VERADITO to help. These designators are more descriptive than "FourStroke" and make it easier to differentiate these motors from the ones that proceeded them.

Mercury used to make a completely different 90-HP motor they called a "Four Stroke." But I find it very hard to make the presence or lack of a space between the words "Four" and "Stroke" to be a consistent basis for distinguishing the motors.

The whole Mercury outboard line is a bit confusing these days because they have dropped any model year designation for their products. At the same time they have introduced new models of their motors with new features, but retained the old names. In some cases you have to rely on the cowling graphics to distinguish the motors.

In the OptiMax line there is a whole new series of motor which I call OPTIMAX GEN2, but Mercury still calls OPTIMAX. The way to tell them apart is the style of the cowling graphic. The OPTIMAX GEN2 motors have the globe logotype on the cowling which the obsolete motors did not.

In the Verado line there is also a new series of motors which I call VERADO GEN2, but Mercury still calls VERADO. The way to tell them apart is the style of the cowling. The VERADO GEN2 motors will have some chrome trim on the cowling that the obsolete did not.

Now at one time it would have been very simple to make distinction between motor--you would just use the model year. However, Mercury has told us that there is no longer any such notion of model year in their products. The motors that Mercury makes now are not to be designated by a model year identifier.

Personally I find the situation to be rather silly. I cannot see how making it as difficult as possible to distinguish the model year and version of a motor is going to help anyone. The only way this can be a benefit is to some boat dealer who is trying to sell an unsuspecting customer a three year old non-current motor and does not want to disclose it to the buyer.

Which do you find more reasonable:

--a 2008 VERADO GEN2 motor

--a VERADO but the new version with the chrome on the cowling

posted 10-01-2007 05:11 PM ET (US)            

Our experience, on a pontoon, has been fine. It is enormous compared to the 75 HP Merc. on a similar size 2000 model year pontoon. Both are Starcraft 20 footers.

It gets about 1/3 better fuel economy for the way we run them. They are both propped to run in the proper RPM band.

posted 10-01-2007 06:32 PM ET (US)         

Unless you're a raving idiot (which I guess some readers here are presumed to be), it's not very hard to tell the difference between the cowling of 2006 (and earlier) 75-115 Mercury 4-strokes (with 100% Yamaha powerheads and their carb blockage problems) from the newer Verado block 2007 Merc 4-stroke EFI's. They are COMPLETELY different looking animals. Mercury is not trying to scam a customer on this issue with model years, as the OMC crowd likes to imply. Same for the highest tech Optimax and Verado's. They have different cowl graphics. The new system of model year designators gives the buyer current warranties, even on left over engines. A great deal. I just looked at a leftover 2005 Merc 150 EFI for a boat, and I would get it designated as a 2008 model with 4 year warranty. THAT'S A GREAT DEAL. The vin plate on any engine gives it's date of manufacture. Yamaha is doing the same thing.

Calling 2006 and earlier Optimax's (including the high performing XS models which no other DFI can match in economy or performance) and Verados OBSOLETE is also ridiculous, especially conisdering they are equipped with Smartcraft, DTS, superchargers, etc. Just look under the hoods of one of these machines. By comparison, certain 2-strokes left over from a bankrupt "behind the times" (why they went bankrupt) company look like simple minded lawmower engines with simple GEN 2 FICHT one stage hammer injector technology. As with auto engines, simple is not better in this world of modern internal combustion outboard engines. Those would be the REAL obsolete engines in my opinion. Also look at the sophisticated products coming out of Tohatsu, Yamaha, Suzuki and Honda. There's a lot of high tech machinery under those 4-stroke hoods. And people love them for some unknown reason.

Calling a new line of engines "Four Stroke EFI" is dumb? I'm looking at an advertizement for Suzuki, and the 250 and 300 HP engines pictured have the dumb words "FOUR STROKE" in big red letters on the cowls. Honda does the same. All this "DF" stuff is not what the engine manufactures label them. Those are just the internal designators for the price sheets. There are no "DF" graphics for the public to see on the engines. So Merc, if nothing else, is just copying the success of the Japanese with their 4-stroke outboards. Why do we have to knock them for it? It's hard enough for Boston Whaler to sell boats these days, without making fun of the first class engines they chose to put on them.

I do think a certain group of outboard motor fans are suffering from "4-stroke envy"!

As to whether a 2-stroke Optimax will outperform a "FOUR STROKE EFI" on a Whaler, I give BW enough credit to have checked this out, and made the right decision to abandon 2-stroke DFI on Whalers. Most new Whaler and Montauk buyers, like WT here, are sophisticated enough to know they want 4-stroke power, and are willing to pay the ectra $500 or so to get it. Nor are we seeing here any complaints about not being able to get an Optimax on a 170 or 190 Montauk. Once again, just look under the hood of one of these new Merc 4-strokes, and what you get for your money is impressive. Boston Whalers with 4-stroke power are simply going to be worth more in the future. Further, from performance reports I have seen, the new Merc 90 4-stroke(at least) on a 170 Montauk is one powerful 90, apparently the most powerful 90 on the market today. 46 MPH is impressive speed. I don't even think the older 100 HP 2 stroke 90 Merc can keep up with it. The Optimax 90 may be faster out of the hole, but I doubt it can touch it top end. Since an E-tec 90 barely pushes the old lightweight 17 Montauk 42 MPH (from reports here), on the bigger and heavier 170 Montauk, I doubt if it could even squeak out 40. So that makes the Merc 90 EFI a lot more powerful engine, 6 mph faster, while still getting better fuel economy! And as WT has indicated, it is more powerful than the highly popular Yamaha 90 4-stroke.

posted 10-01-2007 07:17 PM ET (US)            

I needed a good laugh!

posted 10-01-2007 07:46 PM ET (US)            

I have and there is so much stuff under the hood -- belts, air hoses, compressors, air filters, oil filters, superchargers and a hole assortment of other things, and in the case of the Verado lots of unidentifiable stuff in the leg, that its just plain scary to look at, unless you are in the $ervice $hop's $eat where that $ight is $o $pecial it would put a $mile on your face. ;)

"So Merc, if nothing else, is just copying the success of the Japanese with their 4-stroke outboards."

Are my eyes deceiving me? Did Larry really just say that Merc is copying the Japanese? Wow!

posted 10-01-2007 07:59 PM ET (US)            

Look under the hood of your car. Get used to it. Catalytic convertors are next-oh joy.

We are the biggest fools ever to populate the earth. We fall into all this greenie stuff when we completely ignore what comes out the rear of a jet engine. Not to mention, everyone one of us here exhales carbon dioxide--a greenhouse gas. Oh man, what to do? Stop breathing?

posted 10-02-2007 01:43 AM ET (US)            

Obsolete is the exactly right word for the OptiMax and Verado.

obsolete
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin obsoletus, from past participle of obsolescere to grow old, become disused, perhaps from ob- toward + solEre to be accustomed

1 a : no longer in use or no longer useful <an obsolete word> b :of a kind or style no longer current : OLD-FASHIONED <an obsolete technology>

They stopped making them. They are no longer the current model. They're obsolete. The current motors ought to be called the OptiMax GEN2 and the Verado GEN2.

You should not have to be an outboard motor historian to track all the subtle changes in cowling graphics in order to figure out if you are getting the current production engine or one made three years ago with the same model name that is now obsolete.

posted 10-02-2007 01:52 AM ET (US)            

Mercury does not call their current motor a "Four Stroke."

They call it a "FourStroke."

Do you see the difference? It is the space between the word "Four" and the word "Stroke".

The old motors they bought from Yamaha were "Four Strokes" and the new motors they are making to replace them are "FourStrokes."

posted 10-02-2007 03:00 PM ET (US)            

"Unless you're a raving idiot (which I guess some readers here are presumed to be), it's not very hard to tell the difference between the cowling of 2006 (and earlier) 75-115 Mercury 4-strokes (with 100% Yamaha powerheads and their carb blockage problems) "

My 2006 Montauk 170 came with a 90HP FourStroke (with Yamaha powerhead)and it has EFI, not carbed, so no carb blockage problems. Or am I an idiot?

posted 10-02-2007 03:38 PM ET (US)            

It's getting clearer.

posted 10-02-2007 05:12 PM ET (US)            

Tohsgib - sincerely - Thank you for the clarification, it does help me better understand just what I (may) have on my beast. I was trying to figure it out myself from this thread....

So ..... I'm guessing I have a Verado/Veradito (not Yamaha)type go-fast thing on the back? In any case, it runs great, runs quiet, gets great "mileage" per use and has a good bit of get-up out of the hole and when cruising.

posted 10-02-2007 06:28 PM ET (US)            

As for obsolete. I think the word discontinued would be more appropriate. If my engine is "obsolete" all discontinued EFI engines operating in a 4 stroke fashion would be "obsolete". They are not. To put gasoline on the proverbial fire...are you ready for this people?...2-strokes, by definition, ARE obsolete, or soon will be.

posted 10-02-2007 08:42 PM ET (US)            

But "Veradito" is a really good name for these motors which are derivatives of the Verado. It is much more descriptive than "FourStroke". I find "Veradito" a lot easier to say than "those new Mercury four-stroke motors which are based on the Verado but don't have DTS and supercharging." Talking about these motors as "Veradito's" instead of "FourStroke's" has probably helped more potential buyers understand the nature of the product than Mercury's own promotional material.

I can't figure out why Veradito has poked anyone at Mercury in the eye. They have been reading a million web postings about "Mercaha" motors, the popular name someone coined for Mercury's motors made with Yamaha power heads, and I have never heard anyone claim that use of "Mercaha" was "childish and immature" or declare that anyone using it was now the laughing stock of the marine industry.

If there is any basis on which Mercury would object to "Veradito" it would be from trying to protect the allure of the "Verado" name badge. Perhaps they want to keep "Verado" distinguished from other motors in their line in order to more clearly differentiate it.

posted 10-02-2007 09:56 PM ET (US)            

Have the new Mercury 75-90-115's (which have the same block as the 4 cylinder Verados) undergone the same friction reduction improvements? If so, how are these outboards differentiated from the older ones?

posted 10-02-2007 09:57 PM ET (US)            

I figure if YOU are discussing the product amongst your friends - F the manufacturer and anything THEY name it - call it what YOU want - and if your friends pick up on the nick-name - Good on ya! Like the Model T - Tin Lizzy. AMC PACER - Bubblemobile - or Ford PINTO - P.O.S.... or God-forbid the coveted 'T-Birds' and GTO 'Goats'!

And if your bottom line is the childish "well, I don't care anyway..." Then why even opine at all? Geez, What an aDOLT!

Alright, before Glen breaks out his Tommy gun - I mean his Thompson 9 milimeter sub-machine gun, which is what the mfr calls it...and whacks me...

posted 10-02-2007 11:10 PM ET (US)            

Why don't you create a new category titled "Post-Two Stoke" It can deal with any type of FourStroke/Four Stroke question no matter who manufactures the powerhead, cowling or decals. So if product development in the marine industry has forced you to create a category for "Post-Classic Whalers" (for boats built after 1990), why don't you stick with format and require that new outboard models with no manufacturing date or four strokes in general post to one area.

posted 10-02-2007 11:45 PM ET (US)            

RIDICULOUS! Either it is a four cycle engine or it is not. It's not that hard to tell. Like Male and Female.

posted 10-03-2007 12:29 AM ET (US)            

But alas you are right - the attributes of which these guys can dileberate forever.......man, I'm glad I found this site! :-)

posted 10-03-2007 12:52 AM ET (US)            

An engine (internal combustion) either produces power by four or two strokes-period......

posted 10-04-2007 09:14 PM ET (US)            

I'm sure you'll have a blast with any new Whaler.