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  Brunswick shutting down all line for 13 weeks?

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Author Topic:   Brunswick shutting down all line for 13 weeks?
Feejer posted 11-23-2008 08:45 AM ET (US)   Profile for Feejer   Send Email to Feejer  
My neighbor has been looking for a boat and has been in contact with a local Trophy dealer. He joked to the dealer about being afraid to buy a new boat, with his luck the manufacturer will go belly up. He got this in response:

"What you heard has some truth to it. All Brunswick lines are going to shut down production runs for a period of 13 weeks. What happened is all the Brunswick manufacturers have been building boats business-as-usual and none of them are currently moving. Trophy has approximately 1,700 boats sitting in their yard. Trophy is also going to close one of their seven plants [indefinitely]. When the spring approaches let's see how the market is. Maybe we can work something out at that point."

fourdfish posted 11-23-2008 11:02 AM ET (US)     Profile for fourdfish  Send Email to fourdfish     
At least they are taking major action, albeit a little late. Hope they don't ask for a bailout! (Just a joke)
jimh posted 11-23-2008 11:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Let me see if I have this right:

Brunswick (first-hand) told a dealer (second-hand) who told your neighbor (third-hand) who told you (fourth-hand).

chuck130 posted 11-23-2008 11:19 AM ET (US)     Profile for chuck130  Send Email to chuck130     
Well I know my 23-foot Boston Whaler will be made December 1, 2008. My dealer just faxed to me the actual Boston Whaler boat order for my approval.

Chuck

Feejer posted 11-23-2008 12:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
Jim
If you think the information is incorrect please remove the post
seabob4 posted 11-23-2008 01:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for seabob4  Send Email to seabob4     
Feejer, Jim,
What the dealer said does have some truth to it, but it is not exactly correct. Back in October, it was heard through the grapevine that Brunswick would be shutting down for 2 months, November and December, and return to work after the New Year. Soon others began to follow suit, my employer included. However, the plants aren't totally "shut down". There are very small amounts of multi-skilled employees that are working to get boats in-process completed, and to build any new orders that come in. I am actually one of those "lucky" few. I worked the first 2 weeks of shutdown, along with 6 others. I was off this week, but will be back next week for 3 weeks. I'm sure Whaler and SeaRay have a simialer operation in place. Century and Angler are doing the same, but those with a heavy European presence are most likely still open, but European sales are waning, so they too have reduced their workforces significantly. Monterey, Regal, Viking, and Luhrs are some that come to mind.

If you work in the business, it's not too much fun right now...

AZdave posted 11-23-2008 02:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for AZdave  Send Email to AZdave     
It looks like the cuts run across boat lines owned by Brunswick. This is from Lund, a mostly fishing line popular in the midwest http://www.wctrib.com/articles/index.cfm?id=44029§ion=News Notice which line is omitted at the end of the article. ;-) Dave
BlueMax posted 11-23-2008 03:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for BlueMax  Send Email to BlueMax     

Well, news here in North Carolina is that Brunswick was going to sell the Baja line to Fountain Power Boats out of Washington NC (known around here as "Little Washington") and shut down the plant in Ohio (approx 285 workers effected). While also shutting down the U.S. Marine boatyard in Navassa, NC, and all 270 employees would lose their jobs. From one story itself is this:
quote:
The boatyard’s closing is part of an accelerated plan to cut costs by $300 million. Three other fiberglass boat plants – in Minnesota, Oregon and Washington – will be permanently closed, Brunswick said."

And according to Brunswick CEO Dustin McCoy,

quote:

“Our cost-reduction efforts include consolidating certain boat manufacturing facilities, sales offices
and distribution warehouses,..."

“In addition to the boat plant closures, we will be realigning distribution for our bowling products
business, streamlining some sales operations and eliminating select positions throughout our
company;..."



sources:
www.bymnews.com/new/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=37844
http://www.ibinews.com/ibinews/newsdesk/20080225131436ibinews.html
http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20081009/ARTICLES/810090261/1017

jimh posted 11-23-2008 03:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I am sorry, I had it wrong above. The information chain is more like this:

Brunswick (first-hand) told a subsidiary Trophy (second-hand) who told their dealer (third-hand) who told a customer (fourth-hand) who told a friend (fifth-hand).

I don't know if the information is correct or not, but we are a very long way from an authoritative source.

BlueMax posted 11-23-2008 05:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for BlueMax  Send Email to BlueMax     
Maybe it is just coincidence, or ironic, but it is somehat Interesting that Navassa, North Carolina, is located in Brunswick county. ^@^

fourdfish posted 11-23-2008 05:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for fourdfish  Send Email to fourdfish     
However Jim, It does make sense given all the cuts that Brunswick has announced. Only time will tell!

Blue--I had read somewhere that Fountain was also in trouble and was not going to buy Baja. Maybe the price is so low they
can afford it and can't pass it up.

seabob4 posted 11-23-2008 05:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for seabob4  Send Email to seabob4     
This may shed some light on Fountain and Baja's situation:
http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=222909&posts=8& highlight=Fountain&highlightmode=1#M2311061

Fountain is still in trouble. They, being a publicly traded company, has some capitalization issues that need to be explained to the SEC.

Times are not good...

rborroto posted 11-23-2008 08:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for rborroto  Send Email to rborroto     
I purchased a new Whaler one week ago. Is there a way to check on its status in the production line in Edgewater, FL? I plunked down a deposit to a BW authorized dealer here in Miami, and he assured me that it would arrive by the end of the year. Does anyone know of any delivery problems with the smaller models? I bought the 2009 BW 130 SS.

Rene

seabob4 posted 11-23-2008 09:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for seabob4  Send Email to seabob4     
Call Chuck Bennett at Whaler CS. He'll give you an answer.
chopbuster posted 11-23-2008 09:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for chopbuster  Send Email to chopbuster     
A first cousins nephews uncle on his great aunts mothers
side was told by her neighbors niece that her grandfathers
mother was considering buying a new Wahoo for her brother
inlaws stepsister for christmas.
BlueMax posted 11-23-2008 10:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for BlueMax  Send Email to BlueMax     
A Wahoo...?

You'll shoot your eye out kid....

Murphy posted 11-24-2008 01:04 AM ET (US)     Profile for Murphy  Send Email to Murphy     
From Brunswick Press release [which was dated October 23, 2008, or a month ago]:

"During the quarter, we continued to decrease production throughout our marine operations in an effort to reduce the number of boats held by our dealers," McCoy explained. "This included a month-long furlough, during which we halted production at virtually all of our U.S. fiberglass boat manufacturing plants. While this was the right thing to do, it resulted in sales for our major fiberglass brands being down 50 percent in the quarter. Reduced fixed-cost absorption on lower sales adversely affected operating earnings.

"While we reduced the number of fiberglass boats held by our dealers by 1,400 during the third quarter, there remain 36 weeks of supply of fiberglass boats in the pipeline, down one week from the end of June 2008, but up nine weeks compared with the end of September last year," McCoy said. "As announced earlier this month, we will begin closing or furloughing seven fiberglass boat plants in the fourth quarter to continue to address the pipeline inventory situation."

http://brunswick.com/news/newsstories/release/1/1216564.php

jimh posted 11-24-2008 11:13 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Thanks for the first-hand information.
Feejer posted 11-26-2008 07:19 AM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
"Let me see if I have this right:
Brunswick (first-hand) told a dealer (second-hand) who told your neighbor (third-hand) who told you (fourth-hand)"


Looks like my statement was pretty darn close to the truth

jimh posted 11-29-2008 01:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Boston Whaler will not be shutting down production for 13-weeks. You can consider me a second-hand source on this, but that puts me about three layers higher than the other sources cited on this topic.
jamesmylesmcp posted 05-18-2009 04:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for jamesmylesmcp  Send Email to jamesmylesmcp     
A very reliable source informed me today the lights are off in Edgewater today ! The factory will only operate 2 days a week and then only to complete inventory on hand , Sad.
boatman1 posted 05-19-2009 08:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for boatman1  Send Email to boatman1     
wow, now all you Yamaha, Suzuki, Toyota, Honda owners can now have a field day. Chrysler is gone, GM is on its way out and Brunswick is right behind them. Re-read my posts from months ago and all those who spoke of the benefits of a foreign product. You really wont have any more American products to kick around anymore, as I said it would happen. Great Job!
R T M posted 05-19-2009 09:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for R T M    
Hey Boatman, I don`t own a boat built in Asia, do they build boats in Asia, beside Sampans and Junks? So don`t blame Americans for the failure of boat companies. I thinking it goes deeper than what you state, but we won`t get into failed economics and politics.

rich/Binkie

GreatBayNH posted 05-19-2009 09:42 AM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
When the rate of change outside a company excedes the rate of change inside the company, the end is not a matter of if but when.

Newtauk1 posted 05-19-2009 09:45 AM ET (US)     Profile for Newtauk1  Send Email to Newtauk1     
As a Mercury outboard owner I would be glad to see the motor division go. The waters will be a lot cleaner without Mercury's exclusive leaky filler caps that were junk from day one on 2 Classic strokes . Mercury's failure to take responsibility for sub-par products certainly will add to their demise. The fittest will survive.
Feejer posted 05-19-2009 10:31 AM ET (US)     Profile for Feejer  Send Email to Feejer     
I for one love my Verado and hope it never comes to Mercury going under
Liteamorn posted 05-19-2009 10:45 AM ET (US)     Profile for Liteamorn  Send Email to Liteamorn     
And here we go again
GreatBayNH posted 05-19-2009 11:17 AM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
I've got the best of both worlds? A Mercury engine with header by Yamaha. No issues to date.
R T M posted 05-19-2009 01:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for R T M    
My 25 Mercury 4 stroke is a disguised Tohatsu
built in Japan. Years ago I had a pair of 115 Mercs built in Mexico. I guess Mercury thinks If you can`t beat them join them.
rich/Binkie
boatman1 posted 06-03-2009 10:54 AM ET (US)     Profile for boatman1  Send Email to boatman1     
let me say it another way. If you own a Honda motor does a American company benefit or does a Japanese company benefit?

Just because it isAmerican company building in another country, which I dont agree with anyway, and is a whole other issue with regards to why use cheaper out of the country labor, doesn't mean it not right to look at American Company products to continue to support.

We can talk about how bad and poor decisions with all of these companies, IE: GM, Brunswick, etc have impacted all of us, and that is a separate issue too. The bottom line is before Boston Whaler is bought by Honda, we need to continue to support all American products.

L H G posted 06-03-2009 02:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for L H G    
RTM - Get your facts straight. Merc 115 "towers" were NEVER made in Mexico. I bought two of them new in 1985, and the boxes said Made in USA. It is Merc's electrical harness assembly that is in Mexico, and I think they also make them for BRP/Evinrude at the same facility, under some non-disclosure deal.

Your little 25 4-stroke is a Mercury-Tohatsu Joint Venture engine, producing engines for both companies jointly, now all of them painted black. My take is that Mercury is making them for Tohatsu, if I take your perspective. Prove me wrong. Both Companies are totally silent on this operation.

Peter posted 06-03-2009 03:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
"My take is that Mercury is making them for Tohatsu, if I take your perspective." -- L H G.

Let's see if I understand this correctly, are you saying that Mercury is located in JAPAN making product for a JAPANESE company and its not TOHATSU located in JAPAN making product for an AMERICAN company? Knowing what I know about Japanese business joint ventures, I find that very difficult to believe.

Kingsteven18 posted 06-03-2009 06:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for Kingsteven18  Send Email to Kingsteven18     
Soon you'll have to buy your outboards at Wal-Mart.
20dauntless posted 06-03-2009 06:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for 20dauntless    
Rich, you asked this question:

"...do they build boats in Asia, beside Sampans and Junks?"

Absolutely! And some of the finest boats at that. Nordhavn, Grand Banks, Selene, Fleming... The list could go on. Are some boats made in Asia of poor quality? Certainly, but they also make some excellent boats. The same is true in the US. We build Hinckley, but also Bayliner. The notion that Asian products are inferior in quality to American products is not rounded in fact.

L H G posted 06-03-2009 07:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for L H G    
Peter, what you believe doesn't matter. Tell us about what you know about japanese Joint Ventures with American companies, and specifically this one. Mercury claims they are in a 50-50 Joint Venture to produce small 4-stroke engines with Tohatsu. Tohatsu even switched to Mercury black.
RM NY posted 06-04-2009 08:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for RM NY  Send Email to RM NY     
The large print on the shipping carton of the new Mercury 60hp 4 stroke fuel injected motor I just bought said MADE IN CHINA. There was no hiding it, it has Made in China decals in a few places.
jimh posted 06-04-2009 08:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
The fanciful notion that Mercury is the dominant partner in a manufacturing operation with Tohatsu is only held by a few Mercury loyalists. We have plowed up this Tohatsu-Mercury field many times. Tohatsu makes it clear in all of their literature that the plant in Komagane is their plant. For many rounds of sparing on this topic see

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/003389.html
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/005877.html

R T M posted 06-04-2009 09:17 AM ET (US)     Profile for R T M    
My '08 25hp 4 stroke FI Merc/Tohatsu has a decal on the clamp housing that states;
Brunswick Corporation
made in Japan
But I believe this motor is Tohatsu engineering as Tohatsu made a similar engine prior to being involved with Brunswick

Another Japanese outboard, tha not many are familiar with, and has no competition from any one is YAMATO, strictly a Stock Outboard racing engine. Stadium outboard racing is very popular in Japan and involves parimutuel betting much like horse racing. These outboard are also imported to the US for racing, and finished off any ideas Mercury had of getting back into stock outboard racing. the only Mercury racing classes that run Mercs are Offshore, and a few classes of OPC.
Its too bad because racing is what built Mercurys name back in the `50s.


Here is some info on Yamato;

http://www.yamato.ndo.co.uk/

L H G posted 06-04-2009 11:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for L H G    
Jim, it is your notion that is fanciful, and completely out of touch with reality. Mercury claims to be a Joint Venture owner with Tohatsu of this manufacturing operation, and this JV makes the engines for both companies, and as Rich indicates, labels them as such. If you want to call Brunswick a bunch of liars, be my guest.
R T M posted 06-04-2009 12:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for R T M    
Joint ventures are a good thing for both companies financially, I would think, and also consumers too. My Pontiac Vibe is a joint venture between GM and Toyota. The Vibe is a Toyota Matrix with some different sheet metal, The platform and the interior are identical. I like it because the Vibe has Toyota running gear and engineering, and a better looking American styled body, much like the Mercury/ Tohatsu deal. The Mercury's are better looking but have probably better Japanese engineering.

rich/Binkie

Kingsteven18 posted 06-04-2009 01:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for Kingsteven18  Send Email to Kingsteven18     
Soon Chrysler is going to be a 'joint venture' with Fiat.
jimh posted 06-04-2009 10:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Larry--I am not calling Mercury a liar. I take Mercury completely at their word, which on this topic is almost mum. Mercury simply says that among the many places in which they make marine engines is Komagane, Japan in a joint-venture with Tohatsu-TMC. The term "50-50" is never used. The term "owner" is never used. The joint-venture is never said to make engines for Tohatsu.

On the other hand Tohatsu has quite a bit to say about Komagane. The following is from the Tohatsu corporate website in Japan and in Japanese, translated by GOOGLE with a bit of help:

quote:

Komagane new plant

Plant TOHATSUMARIN Komagane


[In] 2003, production in the outboard motor TOHATSU MARINE reached 115,785 units. This increase [required] acquisition of industrial land Komagane City, Nagano Prefecture. [On] 2005 January 18... was the dedication of the new plant [that] will be manufacturing our TOHATSU MARINE century.

Prior to this, conventional plant Okaya 2004 December 18, ended 61 years of history. Okaya the factory before the war in 1943, was built as a refuge in the war factories evacuated from Tokyo Itabashi, since, has been a vital role along with our manufacturing plants. However, the core facilities in 1955 and has increased since the renovation, to cope with increased production of marine products in recent years, was already at the limit.

January 2006, [Kaneko Minoru ] took over as president of TOHATSUMARIN...[unclear].

In other words, as our management policy, ...the outboard motor and [fire] pump [are the] two pillars of the expansion and improvement of the profitability of product sales made, ended fiscal 2006 revenue of 15.2 billion yen, a record 1,498 and 10,000 . However, profit margins have improved, but still passed from IEZU once, because of that, about 58 percent the proportion of export sales of outboard motor for 95% of the high volatility of exchange rates and material costs is susceptible to. Outboard motor is technically, is to clear the smog in the future, and continue to [unclear] considered in all world markets, increase productivity and reduce costs for the construction of the new plant is absolutely necessary Komagane was.

Komagane is building a new plant in the building, supply of materials, machining, painting, assembly, operation, and bring to a warehouse, and one line of the shipping process, construct a new production line, has attempted to streamline its production did.

The factory was a factory model of Okaya, Nagano Prefecture, once the new plant is beyond commuting distance of Okaya, it can engage in new plant and skilled workers are looking for new talent.

With the concern about the hollowing out of production in many parts of Japan, the plant Komagane our job in the Ina district of Komagane two times as large.


I didn't see "Brunswick" or "Mercury Marine" in that article.

Translated from
http://www.tohatsu.co.jp/anniversary/history05-04.html#entry56

Here is a picture from a French marine company's website who apparently are also in business with Tohatsu selling Tohatsu-branded outboard motors made in Komagane. This gives us a look at the sign on the plant:

http://www.fenwick.fr/corpo/img/actu/Tohatsu_Komagane.jpg

Hmm, I wonder if the gentleman on the right is standing in front of the BRUNSWICK logo? Do you think?

To me it is clear that Komagane is a Tohatsu plant, and they build motors there. Some of the motors are built for Mercury, but they're Tohatsu motors in the main of their design and production. This is consistent with Mercury's past. They've rebranded motors from other Japanese companies and sold them as Mercury motors. Mercury says nothing that contradicts any of this.

jimh posted 06-05-2009 12:49 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
The details of the Mercury-Tohatsu relationship are even stranger than I suspected. I think we are all clear on who Mercury and Tohatsu are. The "joint-venture" company that Larry is always talking about is called "Tohatsu Marine Corporation." This corporation has existed since 1988. That is when Mercury began to buy motors from Tohatsu. Tohatsu formed "Tohatsu Marine Corporation" to create the joint venture company to make motors to sell to Mercury

Here's the killer: in the United States International Trade Commission, the "Tohatsu Marine Corporation" appeared and testified in opposition to the imposition of anti-dumping duties! Now that is some joint venture! It came to Washington to testify against Mercury.

Cf: http://www.usitc.gov/ext_relations/thisweek/wl1_1213.pdf

Here is a list of some of the principals of "Tohatsu Marine Corporation" :

President Mr. Mitsuru Kaneko
Senior Managing Director Mr. Tomatsu Hamananaka
Director of the Komagane Plant Mr. Kazuhiro Masumoto
Director of General Affairs Mr. Tsuneo Tanaka

Tohatsu Marine Corporation ships motors from Komagane to Wisconsin. Here is a bill of lading in which the shipper,

TOHATSU MARINE CORPORATION
4495-9 SHIMODAIRA KOMAGANE NAGANO

sent freight to the consignee

MERCURY MARINE PLANT #12.
W6250, W.PIONEER ROAD FOND DU LAC WI
NOTIFY PARTY

on a vessel CONCORD BRIDGE which departed from the port of Nagoya and sailed to Long Beach, California in February of 2008.

http://www.importgenius.com/shipments/tohatsu-marine-corporation.html


fourdfish posted 06-05-2009 07:33 AM ET (US)     Profile for fourdfish  Send Email to fourdfish     
Good thing BRP no longer has any of those "JOINT" ventures!
R T M posted 06-05-2009 03:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for R T M    
a company doesn`t need joint ventures if they have good research and development organization, and can develop their own outstanding products. But if they don`t, they have to form a Joint Venture, with a company that does, and buy, and put "their" names on other companies products. I only bought a Merc. because it was really a Tohatsu.

rich/Binkie

Kingsteven18 posted 06-05-2009 05:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for Kingsteven18  Send Email to Kingsteven18     
Just released: Joint venture between Tohatsu, Suzuki and Mercury: 'Tohat-so-su-me!'
Whalerdog posted 06-07-2009 03:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerdog  Send Email to Whalerdog     
Personally I am with Boatman1. Don't buy here their will be nothing here. If we can't beat we will join them, Then we can live like they live in Mexico or some other 3 world country. Enjoy, it is coming soon unfortunately.
sosmerc posted 06-07-2009 09:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for sosmerc  Send Email to sosmerc     
It would be nice to be able to "buy American" and thus support America. But so much of the stuff we like to think of as "American" actually is made of stuff from all over the world. (kind of like us "Americans"....we are really a product of our roots....and they didn't all come from "here")
So for now at least, I'll try and buy products that are assembled and sold here and therefore provide American jobs.
Both the Verado and the Optimax engines meet my requirements.
fourdfish posted 06-07-2009 09:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for fourdfish  Send Email to fourdfish     
The E-TEC is also made here in Wisconsin.
I actually think this economy will stimulate the production of more American products. It is really a shame we are giving away our most valuable resource. (OUR FOOD)
sosmerc posted 06-08-2009 01:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for sosmerc  Send Email to sosmerc     
And we sure as heck shouldn't be trying to make fuel from potential food crops either.
We need to concentrate on making fuel and energy from all the waste products we produce. Whole new industries could develop from this effort. America needs to become a leader in technology again. And we need to figure out what is going to be done with "stuff" before it is ever built or produced.

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