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Author Topic:   Key West Boats; E-TEC Engines

wbullwin posted 03-15-2012 07:48 PM ET (US)
My son-in-law is looking into buying his first boat. I'm trying to talk him into a Whaler but he saw a very nice new model Key West, a 203 FS. Does anyone out there have any input on a Key West? Also, what about a 135 E-Tec? Are they any good? I heard they start to have problems around 200 hours. Thoughts?
jimh posted 03-15-2012 08:05 PM ET (US)
Could you tell us what percentage of E-TEC engines have problems after 200 hours? Do all E-TEC engines have onset of problems after 200-hours? This is quite alarming news to me, as I own an E-TEC engine with more than 200 hours. I am very worried now about the coming boating season. Am I going to see the onset of problems?
Jeff posted 03-15-2012 08:18 PM ET (US)
I would not expect to go to a Grady White website and get honest opinions on a Whaler. You might want to try thehulltruth.com to get a broader cross section of opinions.
Personally, I have never been impressed with the Key West products but their pricing is reflective of the quality. I would put them middle of the road and along the lines of the current Mako products.
Buying new is always a huge financial loss, buying a product that does not have strong resale value and appeal is making the loss even larger. I would stick to brands like Grady White, Everglades, Boston Whaler, Edgewater, Pursuit, Yellowfin or maybe even Hydra-sports. Brands that have sought after followings and strong resale.
Also, I would personally would want something 2-3 years old if he wants something still under warranty. Let the first buyer take the large hit on value.

Buckda posted 03-15-2012 08:40 PM ET (US)
I believe forum member mateobosch has a 130-HP E-TEC with more than 200 trouble-free hours.
I had more than 500 trouble-free hours on my two 90 HP E-TEC engines when I sold them (for about $1,000 less than retail).
It is possible that there are problems with the 130 hp engines. I don't know. This is the very first I've heard of it.
You sure he's not a Merc guy? :)
Jeff posted 03-15-2012 08:57 PM ET (US)
Dave, Matt (mateobosch) does have a V4 E-Tec motor on his Montauk but, it is the 115hp version.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/July%205th%202008/ DSC_4072.jpg
L H G posted 03-15-2012 10:07 PM ET (US)
When I saw Matt's boat, I would have sworn the E-tec 115 engine was white. Am I dreaming?
jimh posted 03-15-2012 11:11 PM ET (US)
Discoloration of the cowling may be one of the problems that has its onset after 200 hours.
george nagy posted 03-15-2012 11:18 PM ET (US)
I think the 135hp evinrude is a ficht NOT Etec. Etec engines are 130 hp. If it is a ficht those did have some problems which could be problematic.
george nagy posted 03-15-2012 11:24 PM ET (US)
Jimh, remember that it has been reported that Etec motors have discolored shafts from around where the exhaust escapes. Maybe this engine has more than 200 hours and has been discolored entirely from the exhaust which has been reported to be a problem unique to the Etec line.:)
Russ 13 posted 03-16-2012 08:08 AM ET (US)
Back in the stone age...say early 90's.
I sold Key West boats, hopefully the quality has improved.
Back then they were poorly constructed.
I have not had any interaction with that HP engine.
..
I too would reccomend a good used boat, of a better brand.
DAVIDinMS posted 03-16-2012 10:16 AM ET (US)
While researching prices and outboard choices prior to buying my 1977 Outrage 21 i contacted the local E-Tec dealer. He said he would sell me a 115 or 150. He did not recommend the 130! Something to do with the water passages getting clogged up in muddy water. He thought they would be fine for clear water areas but not for our muddy coastal marsh areas.
David
Jeff posted 03-16-2012 10:38 AM ET (US)
David, I think your dealer may be listening to too much dock talk.
The Crankcase / block, cylinders and cylinder heads between the 115 and 130 are the same. In fact by looking at BRP's expolded view and cross referencing all the part numbers between the 115 and the 130, it looks like all the the internals as well as gaskets are the same. So, then 115 by his theory the 115 should fall victim to the same hear-say fate yet, he would recommend one.
lizard posted 03-16-2012 11:10 AM ET (US)
Interesting, my dealer did not want to put me in the 130 hp either, when I went in a couple of years ago. I currently have an Evinrude 115 hp that pushes my Outrage 18 fine, but I wanted a bit more power. I thought that the 130 might be a nice middle ground between the power and subsequent expense of a step up to a 150.
He said he had never ordered one, because he had heard about "problems with them", but gave me nothing more specific and I didn't pursue it further, as the quotes for E-Tecs, rigged and installed here, are outside my range.
DAVIDinMS posted 03-16-2012 01:17 PM ET (US)
I think the problem is the exhaust valve used to boost the horsepower from 115 to 130. I would love to have an E-tec. I am sold on the concept and love the simplicity and weight savings over the 4 strokes. I still have my first outboard, a 1976 Johnson 6hp. It still runs perfect and is my "get home motor" when all this new technology fails.
David
crabby posted 03-16-2012 01:23 PM ET (US)
BRP made a direct injection V-6 of 135HP in the early 2000's that was not an E-Tec.

I just pulled out a 2005 Evinrude catalog that lists a V-6 135HP E-Tec. I don't recall if this model ever made it to the showrooms and I have never seen one.
The 2007 Evinrude catalog lists neither the 135HP or the 130HP motor.
The current 130HP E-Tec is a performance tuned version of the 115HP V-4. Essentially it is the same as the 115HO, which has a tuned exhaust port that uses a valve to modulate the exhaust flow; the standard 115HP V-4 E-Tec does not have this modification.
For more information on the E-Tec engines go to:
http://www.etecownersgroup.com/
jimh posted 03-16-2012 01:52 PM ET (US)
As already mentioned, there is no 135-HP Evinrude E-TEC. When I hear a report about a problem with an engine that does not exist, it makes it hard for me to give any weight or substance to the report. If the fundamental information is wrong, it is hard to believe the judgmental information that is the payload accompanying the fundamentally wrong information.
L H G posted 03-16-2012 03:19 PM ET (US)
Of course E-tecs can have problems, just like any brand. I recently walked into a marine shop, and they had a 250 Susuki 4-stroke completely torn down under warranty.
The reason you don't hear about engines having problems with only 200 hours is they are usually quietly taken care of under these extended warranties being offered today by all brands.
This 115 E-tec that recently failed had a new powerhead installed under the warranty:
http://www.etecownersgroup.com/post/ breakin-period-on-rebuild-powerhead-5740892
Peter posted 03-16-2012 06:11 PM ET (US)
With the Internet, it's much easier to see failure trends in outboard motors than it was in the past. For example, the Mercury Optimax compressor failures, Mercury Verados gearcase and fuel float switch failures and the Yamaha F225 exhaust corrosion causing oveheating problems have come to the surface due to numerous Internet reports. Google any of these topics and you can find much content.
If there was a failure trend on the E-TEC 130 I think we would know about it by now.
jimh posted 03-16-2012 08:34 PM ET (US)
I am not quite convinced that all E-TEC outboard motors have problems after 200-hours. Just in the sample mentioned here we have zero problems among the E-TEC owners after 200-hours. I don't know what to make of the allegation that E-TEC engines are prone to problems after 200-hours. We have not heard a word about it since the initial declaration by wbullwin.
Larry--you are citing a 115-HP engine repair, and we were talking about 135-HP E-TEC engines--which don't exist. Or maybe we are talking about all E-TEC engines. It is not clear to me what was meant by the original statement of the E-TEC being prone to problems after 200-hours of use.
My impression of E-TEC warranty costs is that Evinrude has never had lower warranty costs. The E-TEC has been in production for about nine or ten years, and it has been under constant improvement. Every model year there are various minor improvements, and now, in model year 2012, which is about the tenth year of productio, the E-TEC engine is rather well advanced in its production evolution and typically very few warranty problems. I think it is fair to say that many of the initial problems associated with the E-TEC were eventually shown to be caused by poor fuel supply and poor fuel line rigging. Even today, bad fuel systems with aerated fuel being supplied to the engine, are cited as a cause of many problems seen in the E-TEC.
We have Suzuki to thank for the long warranty coverage. When Mercury was selling outboard engines with a one-year warranty, Suzuki turned the outboard engine business on its beam ends with a six-year warranty. Thank you, Suzuki.
wbullwin posted 03-17-2012 09:39 AM ET (US)
When I posted my topic, I was only asking a question, NOT making a claim that the E-TECs were bad. I was told by a dealer in Maryland that he had hired a technician that is certified on both Yamaha (which is what he sold) and the E-TEC. He is the one that said they were having problems at 200 hours. I apologize for getting everyone upset. I was only asking a question.
jimh posted 03-17-2012 09:56 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the clarification. As I understand it now, the source of the statement that E-TEC engines will have problems after 200-hours is a from a dealer who sells Yamaha engines who says he heard this from one of his technicians. I think that makes your report that E-TEC engines will have problems after 200-hours to be a third-hand report, that is you heard it from someone else who in turn heard it from someone else.
To get back to your question about the E-TEC engine, yes, they are very good engines, in my experience. I have had one on the transom of my boat for three seasons and over 200-hours of running time. I am very pleased with the performance of the E-TEC engine, and I have not had any problems with the E-TEC engine. If you are interested in learning more about my first-hand experience with the E-TEC, you might want to read a few of the articles I have written about the E-TEC. Here is a listing:
Evinrude E-TEC 250 H.O.
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/ETEC250HO.html
E-TEC Engine History Report
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/ETEC_EngineHistoryReport.html
Modern Electronic Remote Engine Controls
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/electronicControls.html
ICON Gauges for E-TEC
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/ICONgauges.html
ICON Controls for E-TEC
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/ICONcontrols.html
E-TEC 225-HP Fuel Economy
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/007302.html
REVENGE 22 W-T WD with 225-HP, Three Propellers
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/006964.html
The above are all based on my own personal, first-hand experience with the E-TEC engine over three or four years. I hope you might be able to accept the opinions and comments I express in those articles as an offset to the comments you heard from the dealer at the Yamaha dealership who told you that he heard from his technician that E-TEC engines have problems after 200-hours.
djacksonrn posted 03-19-2012 08:24 AM ET (US)
I work about a mile from the Key West factory in Summerville, SC (just outside of Charleston). I agree with another member that wrote that quality was an issue in their mid 90's era boats. I spent Saturday tied up next to a friends Key West 176. It's a 2007, I believe, rigged with a 4-stroke Suzuki 115. I would agree that it compares favorably to some of the newer Makos, but not quite up to the class that Scout, Whaler and Edgewater sit in. Wood free, fit and finish are good, every square inch of space is used, lots of utility. His is not a luxurious boat, but it's not made to be. Only failures of note in this 5 year old boat are aftermarket products (Radio and GPS/FF). Otherwise no issues.
tom976 posted 03-19-2012 09:08 AM ET (US)
I had a 1992 Key West 2020 Bluewater. (20' walkaround) Good bayboat but not very good in the ocean. Open transom was interesting in following seas. Too much gas in the tank and the rear self bailing plugs were in the water. Walk back there and you had water on the deck.
Again, not as nice as the whaler but I caught my fair share of fish on that boat so it all was good.
Russ 13 posted 03-20-2012 11:22 PM ET (US)
I must now state that: YAMAHA outboards are MUCH better
than ALL E-Tec's!.....
WOW I FEEL BETTER!!
As Jim stands ready to edit my thoughts.....
Both EVENRUDE & YAMAHA make GOOD engines.
(The early Yamaha's were copied from....you guessed it OMC)
And I have owned both brands.
...
Getting back to the topic, in todays market a good used
quality brand boat, with reliable power is easy to find
if you do your homework! Good luck with your search!
froberts posted 03-24-2012 11:44 PM ET (US)
I have had three buddys own key west boats. Not a bad brand if you dont mind getting wet and pounded in one footers.
SC Joe posted 03-25-2012 06:11 PM ET (US)

quote:
I have had three buddys own key west boats. Not a bad brand if you dont mind getting wet and pounded in one footers.
Ever ridden in a 17' whaler?

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Author	Topic: Key West Boats; E-TEC Engines
wbullwin	posted 03-15-2012 07:48 PM ET (US) My son-in-law is looking into buying his first boat. I'm trying to talk him into a Whaler but he saw a very nice new model Key West, a 203 FS. Does anyone out there have any input on a Key West? Also, what about a 135 E-Tec? Are they any good? I heard they start to have problems around 200 hours. Thoughts?
jimh	posted 03-15-2012 08:05 PM ET (US) Could you tell us what percentage of E-TEC engines have problems after 200 hours? Do all E-TEC engines have onset of problems after 200-hours? This is quite alarming news to me, as I own an E-TEC engine with more than 200 hours. I am very worried now about the coming boating season. Am I going to see the onset of problems?
Jeff	posted 03-15-2012 08:18 PM ET (US) I would not expect to go to a Grady White website and get honest opinions on a Whaler. You might want to try thehulltruth.com to get a broader cross section of opinions. Personally, I have never been impressed with the Key West products but their pricing is reflective of the quality. I would put them middle of the road and along the lines of the current Mako products. Buying new is always a huge financial loss, buying a product that does not have strong resale value and appeal is making the loss even larger. I would stick to brands like Grady White, Everglades, Boston Whaler, Edgewater, Pursuit, Yellowfin or maybe even Hydra-sports. Brands that have sought after followings and strong resale. Also, I would personally would want something 2-3 years old if he wants something still under warranty. Let the first buyer take the large hit on value.
Buckda	posted 03-15-2012 08:40 PM ET (US) I believe forum member mateobosch has a 130-HP E-TEC with more than 200 trouble-free hours. I had more than 500 trouble-free hours on my two 90 HP E-TEC engines when I sold them (for about $1,000 less than retail). It is possible that there are problems with the 130 hp engines. I don't know. This is the very first I've heard of it. You sure he's not a Merc guy? :)
Jeff	posted 03-15-2012 08:57 PM ET (US) Dave, Matt (mateobosch) does have a V4 E-Tec motor on his Montauk but, it is the 115hp version. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/July%205th%202008/ DSC_4072.jpg
L H G	posted 03-15-2012 10:07 PM ET (US) When I saw Matt's boat, I would have sworn the E-tec 115 engine was white. Am I dreaming?
jimh	posted 03-15-2012 11:11 PM ET (US) Discoloration of the cowling may be one of the problems that has its onset after 200 hours.
george nagy	posted 03-15-2012 11:18 PM ET (US) I think the 135hp evinrude is a ficht NOT Etec. Etec engines are 130 hp. If it is a ficht those did have some problems which could be problematic.
george nagy	posted 03-15-2012 11:24 PM ET (US) Jimh, remember that it has been reported that Etec motors have discolored shafts from around where the exhaust escapes. Maybe this engine has more than 200 hours and has been discolored entirely from the exhaust which has been reported to be a problem unique to the Etec line.:)
Russ 13	posted 03-16-2012 08:08 AM ET (US) Back in the stone age...say early 90's. I sold Key West boats, hopefully the quality has improved. Back then they were poorly constructed. I have not had any interaction with that HP engine. .. I too would reccomend a good used boat, of a better brand.
DAVIDinMS	posted 03-16-2012 10:16 AM ET (US) While researching prices and outboard choices prior to buying my 1977 Outrage 21 i contacted the local E-Tec dealer. He said he would sell me a 115 or 150. He did not recommend the 130! Something to do with the water passages getting clogged up in muddy water. He thought they would be fine for clear water areas but not for our muddy coastal marsh areas. David
Jeff	posted 03-16-2012 10:38 AM ET (US) David, I think your dealer may be listening to too much dock talk. The Crankcase / block, cylinders and cylinder heads between the 115 and 130 are the same. In fact by looking at BRP's expolded view and cross referencing all the part numbers between the 115 and the 130, it looks like all the the internals as well as gaskets are the same. So, then 115 by his theory the 115 should fall victim to the same hear-say fate yet, he would recommend one.
lizard	posted 03-16-2012 11:10 AM ET (US) Interesting, my dealer did not want to put me in the 130 hp either, when I went in a couple of years ago. I currently have an Evinrude 115 hp that pushes my Outrage 18 fine, but I wanted a bit more power. I thought that the 130 might be a nice middle ground between the power and subsequent expense of a step up to a 150. He said he had never ordered one, because he had heard about "problems with them", but gave me nothing more specific and I didn't pursue it further, as the quotes for E-Tecs, rigged and installed here, are outside my range.
DAVIDinMS	posted 03-16-2012 01:17 PM ET (US) I think the problem is the exhaust valve used to boost the horsepower from 115 to 130. I would love to have an E-tec. I am sold on the concept and love the simplicity and weight savings over the 4 strokes. I still have my first outboard, a 1976 Johnson 6hp. It still runs perfect and is my "get home motor" when all this new technology fails. David
crabby	posted 03-16-2012 01:23 PM ET (US) BRP made a direct injection V-6 of 135HP in the early 2000's that was not an E-Tec. I just pulled out a 2005 Evinrude catalog that lists a V-6 135HP E-Tec. I don't recall if this model ever made it to the showrooms and I have never seen one. The 2007 Evinrude catalog lists neither the 135HP or the 130HP motor. The current 130HP E-Tec is a performance tuned version of the 115HP V-4. Essentially it is the same as the 115HO, which has a tuned exhaust port that uses a valve to modulate the exhaust flow; the standard 115HP V-4 E-Tec does not have this modification. For more information on the E-Tec engines go to: http://www.etecownersgroup.com/
jimh	posted 03-16-2012 01:52 PM ET (US) As already mentioned, there is no 135-HP Evinrude E-TEC. When I hear a report about a problem with an engine that does not exist, it makes it hard for me to give any weight or substance to the report. If the fundamental information is wrong, it is hard to believe the judgmental information that is the payload accompanying the fundamentally wrong information.
L H G	posted 03-16-2012 03:19 PM ET (US) Of course E-tecs can have problems, just like any brand. I recently walked into a marine shop, and they had a 250 Susuki 4-stroke completely torn down under warranty. The reason you don't hear about engines having problems with only 200 hours is they are usually quietly taken care of under these extended warranties being offered today by all brands. This 115 E-tec that recently failed had a new powerhead installed under the warranty: http://www.etecownersgroup.com/post/ breakin-period-on-rebuild-powerhead-5740892
Peter	posted 03-16-2012 06:11 PM ET (US) With the Internet, it's much easier to see failure trends in outboard motors than it was in the past. For example, the Mercury Optimax compressor failures, Mercury Verados gearcase and fuel float switch failures and the Yamaha F225 exhaust corrosion causing oveheating problems have come to the surface due to numerous Internet reports. Google any of these topics and you can find much content. If there was a failure trend on the E-TEC 130 I think we would know about it by now.
jimh	posted 03-16-2012 08:34 PM ET (US) I am not quite convinced that all E-TEC outboard motors have problems after 200-hours. Just in the sample mentioned here we have zero problems among the E-TEC owners after 200-hours. I don't know what to make of the allegation that E-TEC engines are prone to problems after 200-hours. We have not heard a word about it since the initial declaration by wbullwin. Larry--you are citing a 115-HP engine repair, and we were talking about 135-HP E-TEC engines--which don't exist. Or maybe we are talking about all E-TEC engines. It is not clear to me what was meant by the original statement of the E-TEC being prone to problems after 200-hours of use. My impression of E-TEC warranty costs is that Evinrude has never had lower warranty costs. The E-TEC has been in production for about nine or ten years, and it has been under constant improvement. Every model year there are various minor improvements, and now, in model year 2012, which is about the tenth year of productio, the E-TEC engine is rather well advanced in its production evolution and typically very few warranty problems. I think it is fair to say that many of the initial problems associated with the E-TEC were eventually shown to be caused by poor fuel supply and poor fuel line rigging. Even today, bad fuel systems with aerated fuel being supplied to the engine, are cited as a cause of many problems seen in the E-TEC. We have Suzuki to thank for the long warranty coverage. When Mercury was selling outboard engines with a one-year warranty, Suzuki turned the outboard engine business on its beam ends with a six-year warranty. Thank you, Suzuki.
wbullwin	posted 03-17-2012 09:39 AM ET (US) When I posted my topic, I was only asking a question, NOT making a claim that the E-TECs were bad. I was told by a dealer in Maryland that he had hired a technician that is certified on both Yamaha (which is what he sold) and the E-TEC. He is the one that said they were having problems at 200 hours. I apologize for getting everyone upset. I was only asking a question.
jimh	posted 03-17-2012 09:56 AM ET (US) Thanks for the clarification. As I understand it now, the source of the statement that E-TEC engines will have problems after 200-hours is a from a dealer who sells Yamaha engines who says he heard this from one of his technicians. I think that makes your report that E-TEC engines will have problems after 200-hours to be a third-hand report, that is you heard it from someone else who in turn heard it from someone else. To get back to your question about the E-TEC engine, yes, they are very good engines, in my experience. I have had one on the transom of my boat for three seasons and over 200-hours of running time. I am very pleased with the performance of the E-TEC engine, and I have not had any problems with the E-TEC engine. If you are interested in learning more about my first-hand experience with the E-TEC, you might want to read a few of the articles I have written about the E-TEC. Here is a listing: Evinrude E-TEC 250 H.O. http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/ETEC250HO.html E-TEC Engine History Report http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/ETEC_EngineHistoryReport.html Modern Electronic Remote Engine Controls http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/electronicControls.html ICON Gauges for E-TEC http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/ICONgauges.html ICON Controls for E-TEC http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/ICONcontrols.html E-TEC 225-HP Fuel Economy http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/007302.html REVENGE 22 W-T WD with 225-HP, Three Propellers http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/006964.html The above are all based on my own personal, first-hand experience with the E-TEC engine over three or four years. I hope you might be able to accept the opinions and comments I express in those articles as an offset to the comments you heard from the dealer at the Yamaha dealership who told you that he heard from his technician that E-TEC engines have problems after 200-hours.
djacksonrn	posted 03-19-2012 08:24 AM ET (US) I work about a mile from the Key West factory in Summerville, SC (just outside of Charleston). I agree with another member that wrote that quality was an issue in their mid 90's era boats. I spent Saturday tied up next to a friends Key West 176. It's a 2007, I believe, rigged with a 4-stroke Suzuki 115. I would agree that it compares favorably to some of the newer Makos, but not quite up to the class that Scout, Whaler and Edgewater sit in. Wood free, fit and finish are good, every square inch of space is used, lots of utility. His is not a luxurious boat, but it's not made to be. Only failures of note in this 5 year old boat are aftermarket products (Radio and GPS/FF). Otherwise no issues.
tom976	posted 03-19-2012 09:08 AM ET (US) I had a 1992 Key West 2020 Bluewater. (20' walkaround) Good bayboat but not very good in the ocean. Open transom was interesting in following seas. Too much gas in the tank and the rear self bailing plugs were in the water. Walk back there and you had water on the deck. Again, not as nice as the whaler but I caught my fair share of fish on that boat so it all was good.
Russ 13	posted 03-20-2012 11:22 PM ET (US) I must now state that: YAMAHA outboards are MUCH better than ALL E-Tec's!..... WOW I FEEL BETTER!! As Jim stands ready to edit my thoughts..... Both EVENRUDE & YAMAHA make GOOD engines. (The early Yamaha's were copied from....you guessed it OMC) And I have owned both brands. ... Getting back to the topic, in todays market a good used quality brand boat, with reliable power is easy to find if you do your homework! Good luck with your search!
froberts	posted 03-24-2012 11:44 PM ET (US) I have had three buddys own key west boats. Not a bad brand if you dont mind getting wet and pounded in one footers.
SC Joe	posted 03-25-2012 06:11 PM ET (US) quote: I have had three buddys own key west boats. Not a bad brand if you dont mind getting wet and pounded in one footers. Ever ridden in a 17' whaler?