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OMCrobert posted 02-14-2014 09:42 AM ET (US)
A few important factors released here.
1.) 550hp at the prop.
2.) Designed for boats up to 40,000lbs
3.) Not stated but looks like a 35inch XXXL shaft
4.) Prop diameter up to 19.5 inches on twin prop lower

This goes along with the continuing growth in the large outboard boat market. The new 420 Outrage and Intrepid has release plans for a 53ft Sport Yacht powered by outboards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlPkSfUMrUg
Tom W Clark posted 02-14-2014 10:13 AM ET (US)
We had a lengthy discussion of the Seven-Marine 557 two years ago when it was introduced at the 2012 Miami Boat Show
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/020304.html
I have yet to see one, or even hear of somebody who actually seen one operating on the water as opposed to simply being on display at a show.
OMCrobert posted 02-14-2014 10:24 AM ET (US)
I doubt most of us will. It is a niche market and I suspect very small. I equate it to the supercar market. I have never seen a Bugatti on the road and only seen them at the shows. A $75k outboard is most likely just as much of a white whale as that car. Reserved for the 1%.
Regardless, I think these engines are showing that outboard power is viable for boats up to 55ft. I think the game changer will be when Yamaha/Evinrude/Mercury get in the game over 400hp.
sosmerc posted 02-14-2014 04:55 PM ET (US)
I have my "flamesuit" on now, so here goes. I think the real "gamechanger" will be when Elon or someone like him comes out with an electric motor powered package that is attractive, affordable, and offers performance. It's definitely being worked on..... http://www.torqeedo.com/us/electric-outboards/deep-blue-for-commercial-operators-and-green-boaters/system-outboard-40-80-hp-2
Tom W Clark posted 02-14-2014 06:44 PM ET (US)

quote:
I have never seen a Bugatti on the road and only seen them at the shows. A $75k outboard is most likely just as much of a white whale as that car
That's a ridiculous comparison. If the average new car costs $30,000, the $2.5M Bugatti costs 83 times as much. If the 557 is the Bugatti of outboards, that suggests, by your reasoning, that the average new outboard costs $900.
No, $75,000 a lot of money for sure but nothing extraordinary. I live about a mile from a marina and I can assure you there are plenty of boats there with $75,000 worth of propulsion equipment aboard. Hell a pair of 557s wouldn't be that much more than a quad set of big Verados.
My point is that we've been hearing a lot of talk and hype about the 557 for over two years but as far as I can tell they have not yet hit the water in the hands of actual boat owners. I've grown tired of hearing about it. They need to produce a product instead of marketing bravado.
It may well be that I never see one, but only because they can't get produce a viable product. I hope they can, it just hasn't happened yet.
OMCrobert posted 02-14-2014 07:44 PM ET (US)
Mr. Clark,
You are very knowledgeable but you are incorrect in this situations.
Twin 557 outboards are $150k.
Quad 350hp Verado Racing engines are right around $110k.
Quad 350hp Yamaha engines are right around $120k.
Also the cost of the engine is just a small part of the overall boat. You just dont buy the engine to have it sit in your living room, you buy it as a part of a luxury item. You are not just buying a outboard, you are buying a $400k+ boat as well in addition to the engines.
These engines are in the hands of customers and Intrepid is even building their larger 53 Sport Yacht around them. The reason you dont see them is because they are niche like any supercar (Bugatti or Lamborghini) and pretty rare.

Tom W Clark posted 02-14-2014 08:41 PM ET (US)
I don't see where I am incorrect. On a $400,000 dollar boat having $150,000 worth of engines isn't "that much more" than having $120,000 worth of engines.
I don't quite get your "niche market" argument. Maybe where you come from a $400,000 boat is so rare that you never see one, but where I live a $400,000 dollar boat is rather common. In fact boats that cost several million dollars are not uncommon and I see them every day when I drive around Lake Union or over one of Lake Washington's floating bridges.
I have never seen a 557 or even heard of somebody who has...except at a boat show.
OMCrobert posted 02-14-2014 09:45 PM ET (US)
You are correct that a $400k boat is nothing crazy and not too out of the normal. But having a $400k center console go fast with a $150k worth of engines is a certainly niche market and not that common. I would theorize you most likely have not seen any quad 350hp Yamaha set ups either and that is exact the target market for this engine. If you were in the Ft. Lauderdale/Miami area, I would also theorize you would see them.
What could the production output of Seven Marine be? 300 units for the globe per year?
Tom W Clark posted 02-14-2014 10:05 PM ET (US)
I am fairly certain the production output of the 557 is zero.
jimh posted 02-14-2014 11:49 PM ET (US)
Re exotic cars, in my neighborhood, in good weather, on a fine Summer evening, it is not unusual to see Ferrari and Lamborghini cars on the road. Please note that I see them while driving my 1995 truck. On the other hand, I can only think of one triple VERADO powered boat I have seen actually underway on the water--exempting the dozens of government agency boats that are patrolling the border. So as far as I can tell, A triple VERADO is less common than a Ferrari or Lamborghini. I am not sure where that puts the Seven Marine outboard or the Bugatti.
jharrell posted 02-15-2014 09:23 AM ET (US)
Funny, Seven Marine just gave out an award to a service center of the year for servicing these non-existant zero production outboards: http://www.seven-marine.com/news/ seven-marine-2014-service-center-of-the-year-tnt-custom-marine-miami-fl
Looking at their service locations it would be understandable why you would not find one in the Pacific North West: http://www.seven-marine.com/service-support/service-locations/
I suppose they could be fabricating news articles stating they have been in production since Dec. 2012 and received their EPA certificate in Feb. 2013 and these service centers could just be elaborate hoaxes.
There is one not far from me in St Pete., I should go take a look and see if it actually exists and is servicing these phantom outboards.
mobey posted 02-20-2014 05:58 PM ET (US)
Right now, my company is involved in completing a building addition to the painting facility that among other things, paints the 557 outboard. This facility is located in Grafton WI, about 17 miles from Seven Marine's headquarters in Menomonee Falls WI.
I have Seen 557's.
I have Touched 557's
About a month ago while at this painting facility, I walked up and closely inspected 3 complete and painted 557 outboards- each on it's own rolling stand. I was with another gentleman (the General Contractor- Who is also an engine nut) who went on to explain that the owners of the painting facility have the contract for painting the 557 and this has been going on for "some time now".
My conclusion after viewing: The 557 outboards look to be a splendid piece of marine machinery.
Jefecinco posted 02-20-2014 07:09 PM ET (US)
Do the 557s fill a market need or create a market by being available? What boats may now be constructed to take advantage of the 557s availability? Two thousand plus HP will push a good sized yacht. SeaRay has done a good job of "hiding" the outboards one a large boat. The possibilities abound.
Butch
Teak Oil posted 02-20-2014 07:35 PM ET (US)
Butch the Sea Ray you mentioned is a good example of the market for this outboard. There are not very many models to use these big outboards because they are not ready for high production numbers.
Another market is the big high performance center console market, which is growing by leaps and bounds in the South.
A pair of 550hp outboards would outperform duad 300's on the 40' CC's by a vast margin.
Almost every major high performance boat manufacturer is making CC's now, and the biggest outboard available is the Yammy 350 or Verado 350.
The new 420 Outrage could use a pair of these.
Teak Oil posted 02-20-2014 07:44 PM ET (US)
Oh, and a $50k outboard is nothing to the high performance boating crowd, those guys routinely drop 30k on an engine rebuild, and then have to spend another 30k building a drive that can handle that power. This takes care of two problems at once for that crowd.
Peter posted 02-20-2014 08:25 PM ET (US)
The 557 motor is not $50,000 but rather more like $75,000. For that kind of money it better be a splendid piece of marine machinery. For about $10,000 less, you can get that same powerhead in the engine compartment of a Cadillac CTS-V.
Jefecinco posted 02-21-2014 09:34 AM ET (US)
Peter,
Yes, it's serious money to you and me but not to the folks who are spending a million plus dollars for the ability to get out to the fishing grounds and back for weigh-in very quickly during tournaments. Prize money aside, the side bets alone can net an owner and captain a few hundred thousand dollars.
Think about what these boys are spending just for fuel to move their yachts from one tournament to another and then to race out and back each day. I'm sure the amount exceeds my annual income.
Butch
Peter posted 02-21-2014 09:59 AM ET (US)
These motors are not about getting to and from the fishing grounds quickly because a quad outboard boat can do that just as well and for no more money plus you get better redundancy. If one motor goes down you are only down to 75 percent power versus 50 percent. If getting to and from the fishing grounds quickly is important than having four motors is better than two.
This product is all about "look at me" and it fits in quite well where they sell it.
Teak Oil posted 02-21-2014 07:41 PM ET (US)
Peter it doesn't matter what the motor is "all about" as long as it sells.
I believe it will sell once Seven Marine can make the motor reliable enough for mass production and there is a market for the outboards, which is very near reality.
This is just a GM V8, so it should conceivably last well over a thousand hours of service and be easily rebuildable.
OMCrobert posted 02-21-2014 08:54 PM ET (US)
Once another manufacturer creates a 400hp-450hp outboard with a street price of $28k-$30k, I think you will see the market for Seven Marine shrink a lot. Some will still buy it for the wow factor and the look at me effect but main stream will shy away in my opinion.
Yamaha has to have an alternative plan for their 5.3 liter V8 350hp. They could apply their plasma bore coating from their SHO/Offshore engines, increase displacement to 6.0 liter and be 450hp at 800lbs is not out of the realm of possibilities in my humble opinion.
Peter posted 02-22-2014 08:44 AM ET (US)
The market for high HP outboards is very tiny. I don't think you'll see the major manufacturers venture into that space because the volume isn't there and so the investment isn't worth it.
One reason the 557 motors may not be flying off the shelf is the price. You can get three F350s which will have about 60 HP less in total for about half the price of a pair of 557s. The 557's price of $125 per HP is in the exotic territory. Is the marginal performance improvement claimed by Seven Marine of two 557s over three F350s worth $75,000?
If just going by function and not worrying about the look-at-me factor, for probably $50,000 less than a pair of 557s, a quad Evinrude 300 setup on the transom has a better power to weight ratio with better redundancy and supported by a significantly larger service network.
The 557 proposition is all about exclusivity. I believe they will remain rare items just like exotic cars.
jharrell posted 02-22-2014 11:41 AM ET (US)
This is why the 557's exist and are making sales:
http://i48.tinypic.com/jrv1fp.jpg
http://www.mileanhour.com/files/2011/10/ 11436-102582103102228-100000513170341-68574-1628779-n.jpg
Compared to:
http://www.sportfishingmag.com/files/imagecache/enlarged_image/_images/ 201305/Midnight%20Express_CC42259.jpg
http:/ / www. thehulltruth. com/ attachments/ boating-forum/ 368632d1381 943100-39-midnight-express-triple-557s-2013-10-16_11-46-01_746. jpg

Mounting 5 or more outboards on any transom becomes physically impractical regardless of cost. This type and size of boat is a very small market, but it obviously exists. For comparison a Mercury 525hp inboard list for $56,000.
There are some unique innovation in this outboard that I hope will filter down to "normal" outboards in the future. Such as the non-raw water Alfa-Laval heat ex-changer system and the ZF wet-clutch transmission mounted in mid section rather than the LU doing the shifting with the possibility of 2-speeds.
What I wonder about on these outboards is the durability of the transfer case, they are pretty tight-lipped on what it actually is. Based on the images of the cover it is a belt or chain, most likely a supercharger type belt. It can been seen here:
http://blog.boats.com/files/seven-557-powerhead-rear-166x300.jpg
Teak Oil posted 02-22-2014 08:29 PM ET (US)
Is the purpose of the transmission to make the lower units stronger by relieving them of shifting responsibilities, or simply because the motor is horizontal and they use a tranny to convert the power transmission from horizontal to vertical?
Peter posted 02-23-2014 07:17 AM ET (US)
I don't see any compelling reason to have any of the 557 technology trickle down to conventional outboards.
Conventional outboards don't need the fresh water cooling. When needed, outboard motor power heads have provisions for sacrificial anodes on the engine block, something that the 557 doesn't have because its an automobile engine.
What would a 2-speed transmission do, allow a motor with a low torque output at low and mid-range engine speeds but high HP at high RPM (like a Honda Civic motor) get over the bow wave? There's no reason they can't do that on inboards or I/O's as they have the room yet they don't do it.
The 557s ZF transmission is similar to the pod drive transmissions with the difference that the engine sits on top of the pod drive transmission instead of in front of it and so they have to overlay the crankshaft output onto to a second horizontal shaft under the power head. As compared to I/Os or pod drives, it seems as though they must lose some efficiency in having to do that.
jharrell posted 02-23-2014 11:27 AM ET (US)

quote:
Is the purpose of the transmission to make the lower units stronger by relieving them of shifting responsibilities, or simply because the motor is horizontal and they use a tranny to convert the power transmission from horizontal to vertical?
Both, the LU is a twin pinion design in order to hold up to the power. It would be too large and complicated to also provide reverse: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-p1j_ei4FJ7c/T0mhexSgbwI/AAAAAAAAA5U/ ki4hHJIZpH8/s1600/boatfullblog_miami-2012-gearcase-4100311016.jpg

quote:
Conventional outboards don't need the fresh water cooling. When needed, outboard motor power heads have provisions for sacrificial anodes on the engine block, something that the 557 doesn't have because its an automobile engine.
Funny coming from someone who regularly criticizes outboards for having sacrificial anodes in the power head. Fresh water cooling solves a host of issues from running salt water through your engine block which is why it is used on inboards where reliability and longevity are desired, Nordhavn diesels being just one example of many.

quote:
What would a 2-speed transmission do, allow a motor with a low torque output at low and mid-range engine speeds but high HP at high RPM (like a Honda Civic motor) get over the bow wave?

Yeah what am I thinking, it's not like we all haven't talked about outboards requiring broad power/torque curves since they have no way to multiply torque using a multi-speed transmission to keep the engine closer to it's ideal power band like every automobile. No engine is immune to this, choosing a prop for an outboard is always a compromise since it is essentially choosing the single "gear" the transmission will always be in in all conditions.

quote:
There's no reason they can't do that on inboards or I/O's as they have the room yet they don't do it.
They do have them in inboards and have for years, ZF makes a host of 2-speed tranmissions. Here is an article from 1999 describing the benefits: http://www.boatpoint.com.au/engine-reviews/1999/ zfs-two-speed-gearbox-range-8192

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Author	Topic: Twin Props available on the Seven Marine OB
OMCrobert	posted 02-14-2014 09:42 AM ET (US) A few important factors released here. 1.) 550hp at the prop. 2.) Designed for boats up to 40,000lbs 3.) Not stated but looks like a 35inch XXXL shaft 4.) Prop diameter up to 19.5 inches on twin prop lower This goes along with the continuing growth in the large outboard boat market. The new 420 Outrage and Intrepid has release plans for a 53ft Sport Yacht powered by outboards. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlPkSfUMrUg
Tom W Clark	posted 02-14-2014 10:13 AM ET (US) We had a lengthy discussion of the Seven-Marine 557 two years ago when it was introduced at the 2012 Miami Boat Show http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/020304.html I have yet to see one, or even hear of somebody who actually seen one operating on the water as opposed to simply being on display at a show.
OMCrobert	posted 02-14-2014 10:24 AM ET (US) I doubt most of us will. It is a niche market and I suspect very small. I equate it to the supercar market. I have never seen a Bugatti on the road and only seen them at the shows. A $75k outboard is most likely just as much of a white whale as that car. Reserved for the 1%. Regardless, I think these engines are showing that outboard power is viable for boats up to 55ft. I think the game changer will be when Yamaha/Evinrude/Mercury get in the game over 400hp.
sosmerc	posted 02-14-2014 04:55 PM ET (US) I have my "flamesuit" on now, so here goes. I think the real "gamechanger" will be when Elon or someone like him comes out with an electric motor powered package that is attractive, affordable, and offers performance. It's definitely being worked on..... http://www.torqeedo.com/us/electric-outboards/deep-blue-for-commercial-operators-and-green-boaters/system-outboard-40-80-hp-2
Tom W Clark	posted 02-14-2014 06:44 PM ET (US) quote: I have never seen a Bugatti on the road and only seen them at the shows. A $75k outboard is most likely just as much of a white whale as that car That's a ridiculous comparison. If the average new car costs $30,000, the $2.5M Bugatti costs 83 times as much. If the 557 is the Bugatti of outboards, that suggests, by your reasoning, that the average new outboard costs $900. No, $75,000 a lot of money for sure but nothing extraordinary. I live about a mile from a marina and I can assure you there are plenty of boats there with $75,000 worth of propulsion equipment aboard. Hell a pair of 557s wouldn't be that much more than a quad set of big Verados. My point is that we've been hearing a lot of talk and hype about the 557 for over two years but as far as I can tell they have not yet hit the water in the hands of actual boat owners. I've grown tired of hearing about it. They need to produce a product instead of marketing bravado. It may well be that I never see one, but only because they can't get produce a viable product. I hope they can, it just hasn't happened yet.
OMCrobert	posted 02-14-2014 07:44 PM ET (US) Mr. Clark, You are very knowledgeable but you are incorrect in this situations. Twin 557 outboards are $150k. Quad 350hp Verado Racing engines are right around $110k. Quad 350hp Yamaha engines are right around $120k. Also the cost of the engine is just a small part of the overall boat. You just dont buy the engine to have it sit in your living room, you buy it as a part of a luxury item. You are not just buying a outboard, you are buying a $400k+ boat as well in addition to the engines. These engines are in the hands of customers and Intrepid is even building their larger 53 Sport Yacht around them. The reason you dont see them is because they are niche like any supercar (Bugatti or Lamborghini) and pretty rare.
Tom W Clark	posted 02-14-2014 08:41 PM ET (US) I don't see where I am incorrect. On a $400,000 dollar boat having $150,000 worth of engines isn't "that much more" than having $120,000 worth of engines. I don't quite get your "niche market" argument. Maybe where you come from a $400,000 boat is so rare that you never see one, but where I live a $400,000 dollar boat is rather common. In fact boats that cost several million dollars are not uncommon and I see them every day when I drive around Lake Union or over one of Lake Washington's floating bridges. I have never seen a 557 or even heard of somebody who has...except at a boat show.
OMCrobert	posted 02-14-2014 09:45 PM ET (US) You are correct that a $400k boat is nothing crazy and not too out of the normal. But having a $400k center console go fast with a $150k worth of engines is a certainly niche market and not that common. I would theorize you most likely have not seen any quad 350hp Yamaha set ups either and that is exact the target market for this engine. If you were in the Ft. Lauderdale/Miami area, I would also theorize you would see them. What could the production output of Seven Marine be? 300 units for the globe per year?
Tom W Clark	posted 02-14-2014 10:05 PM ET (US) I am fairly certain the production output of the 557 is zero.
jimh	posted 02-14-2014 11:49 PM ET (US) Re exotic cars, in my neighborhood, in good weather, on a fine Summer evening, it is not unusual to see Ferrari and Lamborghini cars on the road. Please note that I see them while driving my 1995 truck. On the other hand, I can only think of one triple VERADO powered boat I have seen actually underway on the water--exempting the dozens of government agency boats that are patrolling the border. So as far as I can tell, A triple VERADO is less common than a Ferrari or Lamborghini. I am not sure where that puts the Seven Marine outboard or the Bugatti.
jharrell	posted 02-15-2014 09:23 AM ET (US) Funny, Seven Marine just gave out an award to a service center of the year for servicing these non-existant zero production outboards: http://www.seven-marine.com/news/ seven-marine-2014-service-center-of-the-year-tnt-custom-marine-miami-fl Looking at their service locations it would be understandable why you would not find one in the Pacific North West: http://www.seven-marine.com/service-support/service-locations/ I suppose they could be fabricating news articles stating they have been in production since Dec. 2012 and received their EPA certificate in Feb. 2013 and these service centers could just be elaborate hoaxes. There is one not far from me in St Pete., I should go take a look and see if it actually exists and is servicing these phantom outboards.
mobey	posted 02-20-2014 05:58 PM ET (US) Right now, my company is involved in completing a building addition to the painting facility that among other things, paints the 557 outboard. This facility is located in Grafton WI, about 17 miles from Seven Marine's headquarters in Menomonee Falls WI. I have Seen 557's. I have Touched 557's About a month ago while at this painting facility, I walked up and closely inspected 3 complete and painted 557 outboards- each on it's own rolling stand. I was with another gentleman (the General Contractor- Who is also an engine nut) who went on to explain that the owners of the painting facility have the contract for painting the 557 and this has been going on for "some time now". My conclusion after viewing: The 557 outboards look to be a splendid piece of marine machinery.
Jefecinco	posted 02-20-2014 07:09 PM ET (US) Do the 557s fill a market need or create a market by being available? What boats may now be constructed to take advantage of the 557s availability? Two thousand plus HP will push a good sized yacht. SeaRay has done a good job of "hiding" the outboards one a large boat. The possibilities abound. Butch
Teak Oil	posted 02-20-2014 07:35 PM ET (US) Butch the Sea Ray you mentioned is a good example of the market for this outboard. There are not very many models to use these big outboards because they are not ready for high production numbers. Another market is the big high performance center console market, which is growing by leaps and bounds in the South. A pair of 550hp outboards would outperform duad 300's on the 40' CC's by a vast margin. Almost every major high performance boat manufacturer is making CC's now, and the biggest outboard available is the Yammy 350 or Verado 350. The new 420 Outrage could use a pair of these.
Teak Oil	posted 02-20-2014 07:44 PM ET (US) Oh, and a $50k outboard is nothing to the high performance boating crowd, those guys routinely drop 30k on an engine rebuild, and then have to spend another 30k building a drive that can handle that power. This takes care of two problems at once for that crowd.
Peter	posted 02-20-2014 08:25 PM ET (US) The 557 motor is not $50,000 but rather more like $75,000. For that kind of money it better be a splendid piece of marine machinery. For about $10,000 less, you can get that same powerhead in the engine compartment of a Cadillac CTS-V.
Jefecinco	posted 02-21-2014 09:34 AM ET (US) Peter, Yes, it's serious money to you and me but not to the folks who are spending a million plus dollars for the ability to get out to the fishing grounds and back for weigh-in very quickly during tournaments. Prize money aside, the side bets alone can net an owner and captain a few hundred thousand dollars. Think about what these boys are spending just for fuel to move their yachts from one tournament to another and then to race out and back each day. I'm sure the amount exceeds my annual income. Butch
Peter	posted 02-21-2014 09:59 AM ET (US) These motors are not about getting to and from the fishing grounds quickly because a quad outboard boat can do that just as well and for no more money plus you get better redundancy. If one motor goes down you are only down to 75 percent power versus 50 percent. If getting to and from the fishing grounds quickly is important than having four motors is better than two. This product is all about "look at me" and it fits in quite well where they sell it.
Teak Oil	posted 02-21-2014 07:41 PM ET (US) Peter it doesn't matter what the motor is "all about" as long as it sells. I believe it will sell once Seven Marine can make the motor reliable enough for mass production and there is a market for the outboards, which is very near reality. This is just a GM V8, so it should conceivably last well over a thousand hours of service and be easily rebuildable.
OMCrobert	posted 02-21-2014 08:54 PM ET (US) Once another manufacturer creates a 400hp-450hp outboard with a street price of $28k-$30k, I think you will see the market for Seven Marine shrink a lot. Some will still buy it for the wow factor and the look at me effect but main stream will shy away in my opinion. Yamaha has to have an alternative plan for their 5.3 liter V8 350hp. They could apply their plasma bore coating from their SHO/Offshore engines, increase displacement to 6.0 liter and be 450hp at 800lbs is not out of the realm of possibilities in my humble opinion.
Peter	posted 02-22-2014 08:44 AM ET (US) The market for high HP outboards is very tiny. I don't think you'll see the major manufacturers venture into that space because the volume isn't there and so the investment isn't worth it. One reason the 557 motors may not be flying off the shelf is the price. You can get three F350s which will have about 60 HP less in total for about half the price of a pair of 557s. The 557's price of $125 per HP is in the exotic territory. Is the marginal performance improvement claimed by Seven Marine of two 557s over three F350s worth $75,000? If just going by function and not worrying about the look-at-me factor, for probably $50,000 less than a pair of 557s, a quad Evinrude 300 setup on the transom has a better power to weight ratio with better redundancy and supported by a significantly larger service network. The 557 proposition is all about exclusivity. I believe they will remain rare items just like exotic cars.
jharrell	posted 02-22-2014 11:41 AM ET (US) This is why the 557's exist and are making sales: http://i48.tinypic.com/jrv1fp.jpg http://www.mileanhour.com/files/2011/10/ 11436-102582103102228-100000513170341-68574-1628779-n.jpg Compared to: http://www.sportfishingmag.com/files/imagecache/enlarged_image/_images/ 201305/Midnight%20Express_CC42259.jpg http:/ / www. thehulltruth. com/ attachments/ boating-forum/ 368632d1381 943100-39-midnight-express-triple-557s-2013-10-16_11-46-01_746. jpg Mounting 5 or more outboards on any transom becomes physically impractical regardless of cost. This type and size of boat is a very small market, but it obviously exists. For comparison a Mercury 525hp inboard list for $56,000. There are some unique innovation in this outboard that I hope will filter down to "normal" outboards in the future. Such as the non-raw water Alfa-Laval heat ex-changer system and the ZF wet-clutch transmission mounted in mid section rather than the LU doing the shifting with the possibility of 2-speeds. What I wonder about on these outboards is the durability of the transfer case, they are pretty tight-lipped on what it actually is. Based on the images of the cover it is a belt or chain, most likely a supercharger type belt. It can been seen here: http://blog.boats.com/files/seven-557-powerhead-rear-166x300.jpg
Teak Oil	posted 02-22-2014 08:29 PM ET (US) Is the purpose of the transmission to make the lower units stronger by relieving them of shifting responsibilities, or simply because the motor is horizontal and they use a tranny to convert the power transmission from horizontal to vertical?
Peter	posted 02-23-2014 07:17 AM ET (US) I don't see any compelling reason to have any of the 557 technology trickle down to conventional outboards. Conventional outboards don't need the fresh water cooling. When needed, outboard motor power heads have provisions for sacrificial anodes on the engine block, something that the 557 doesn't have because its an automobile engine. What would a 2-speed transmission do, allow a motor with a low torque output at low and mid-range engine speeds but high HP at high RPM (like a Honda Civic motor) get over the bow wave? There's no reason they can't do that on inboards or I/O's as they have the room yet they don't do it. The 557s ZF transmission is similar to the pod drive transmissions with the difference that the engine sits on top of the pod drive transmission instead of in front of it and so they have to overlay the crankshaft output onto to a second horizontal shaft under the power head. As compared to I/Os or pod drives, it seems as though they must lose some efficiency in having to do that.
jharrell	posted 02-23-2014 11:27 AM ET (US) quote: Is the purpose of the transmission to make the lower units stronger by relieving them of shifting responsibilities, or simply because the motor is horizontal and they use a tranny to convert the power transmission from horizontal to vertical? Both, the LU is a twin pinion design in order to hold up to the power. It would be too large and complicated to also provide reverse: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-p1j_ei4FJ7c/T0mhexSgbwI/AAAAAAAAA5U/ ki4hHJIZpH8/s1600/boatfullblog_miami-2012-gearcase-4100311016.jpg quote: Conventional outboards don't need the fresh water cooling. When needed, outboard motor power heads have provisions for sacrificial anodes on the engine block, something that the 557 doesn't have because its an automobile engine. Funny coming from someone who regularly criticizes outboards for having sacrificial anodes in the power head. Fresh water cooling solves a host of issues from running salt water through your engine block which is why it is used on inboards where reliability and longevity are desired, Nordhavn diesels being just one example of many. quote: What would a 2-speed transmission do, allow a motor with a low torque output at low and mid-range engine speeds but high HP at high RPM (like a Honda Civic motor) get over the bow wave? Yeah what am I thinking, it's not like we all haven't talked about outboards requiring broad power/torque curves since they have no way to multiply torque using a multi-speed transmission to keep the engine closer to it's ideal power band like every automobile. No engine is immune to this, choosing a prop for an outboard is always a compromise since it is essentially choosing the single "gear" the transmission will always be in in all conditions. quote: There's no reason they can't do that on inboards or I/O's as they have the room yet they don't do it. They do have them in inboards and have for years, ZF makes a host of 2-speed tranmissions. Here is an article from 1999 describing the benefits: http://www.boatpoint.com.au/engine-reviews/1999/ zfs-two-speed-gearbox-range-8192