posted 07-13-2005 08:06 AM ET (US)        

Under-deck Repairs
On a 1985 OUTRAGE 22

by Jeff Rohlfing

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/outrageRestore.html

posted 07-13-2005 10:24 AM ET (US)            

Congrats, I hope I'll not have to do a similar work. Fine details showed.

posted 07-13-2005 10:54 AM ET (US)            

It was rather shocking to see how shoddy the original work by Whaler was on the deck fabrication.

The only suggestion I might add as alternative would be to look at a vacuum bag set up for bonding the new laminations to the deck instead of piling on the weights. I've been part of doing this for other boat building projects, and it works well. The set up we used just used a heat sealing device to "weld" to pieces of heavy poly together to create the bag, and a small 110v vaccum pump to evacuate the air.

posted 07-14-2005 08:58 PM ET (US)            

That's a big job. Good lesson and reminder to go around and recaulk all the screws you can. I found a fair amount of loose screws around the console area. It is amazing how much damage water can do to the plywood, without showing visible or obvious signs of rot.

Your good to go for many years with that repair. The boat does look like it is in excellent condition. Good luck with her.

Rich

posted 07-16-2005 03:09 PM ET (US)            

Jack - I do not know whether to say your welcome or sorry for the inspiration. :p

Plotman - Dave that is an idea I had never thought of. I used vacuum bags back in school to build furniture and love using them. I guess I never though they would make a bag big enough.

John O - With the rebuild of the floor and rewire it took about I would guess 400+ man hours.

Al_A_Buy - We used plywood because all of the non wood materials, except for fiberglass sheets, had to glued into place and we felt over time the adhesives would not hold as well. With the plywood and resin you end up with a strong part than if you just adhered lets say HDPE plastic sheets to the bottom of the floor. Using wood was more economical as well. Wood = $45, Fiberglass sheets $1500 , Starboard $1000+ Also if kept sealed the wood should last for ever as well.

Here are the latest Pictures I have of her finished. These are from Memorial Day weekend. The bottom paint will be re done this winter in either shark white or I am trying to have a custom desert tan color mixed.
http://photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Finished/

posted 07-16-2005 08:35 PM ET (US)         

Thanks for the pictures of that fantastic rig in the water. Great boat and great job. I bet that deck will be bullet proof for a long time to come!!!!!!!!

Thank your Dad for us as well.

posted 07-17-2005 09:04 AM ET (US)            

I've been following your progress for quite some time and you played no small part in my decision to search for an Outrage 22 instead of an 18 or 20. I purchased a 1980 Outrage V-22 at about the time you were finishing up your restoration. Thanks for the invaluable documentation of all the work you and your Dad did.

posted 07-25-2005 07:01 AM ET (US)            

You inspired me to take a look under the deck of my 1986 Revenge 22 WT. At minimum, I need to replace my fuel hoses.

The deck on the Revenge has 3 sections: the fuel tank cover, the fish well cover, and a 3rd section under the console area. I have removed the first 2 sections, and the wood was wet and heavy, but in better shape than yours was. Still, it should be replaced, and I have set out to do that. The 3/8" section has been removed. The remaining 1/4" section is still in good shape and I plan to leave it in place. I also plan to remove and inspect the 3rd section under the console.

I carved out the sump area behind the tank, just as you did. I am seing some clear water collect there, but not much. I am considering installing a brass tube between the bottom of that sump area and the fish well. Your thoughts? The port-side channel still needs a solution too, and I am considering a tube into the fish locker tube.

Also, looking for a good source of marine grade plywood. Any suggestions?

posted 02-23-2006 10:52 AM ET (US)            

What an incredible, incredible article. Top shelf. I'm less daunted now by the reality (I'm avoiding) that I have to remove my console, T-top, decks, etc., etc., etc. and start the repair you accomplished.

I will print your article for reference but even still I'm sure I'll be nowhere near as organized or thorough as you and your father.

Too bad BW doesn't make decks to replace the shoddy workmanship they did on the decks of these otherwise excellent boats.

I have just one question, it appears you added thickness to the deck and I wonder if that interferes with any structures (bulkheads, tank straps, etc.) when refitting the deck to the hull.

posted 02-23-2006 01:36 PM ET (US)            

Whaler laid the floor up with 2 sections of marine plywood. A layer of 1/4" that was what first attached to the back of the floor and a layer of 3/8" over that. I used 3 layers of 1/4" and had no issues with fit. In the end it ended up being a much stronger part with 3 layers than if with 2 or even 1.

I do have a lot more pictures than what is published in the article. Also I have pictures of the rewiring of the entire motor, console, and trailer. As well as the refurb of the trailer axles. I am currently documenting the rebuilding of my powerhead. So if need other info please feel free to send me an email to the address in my profile.

posted 12-07-2006 08:03 PM ET (US)            

I've been studying your project for the last several months. Nice work, to say the least. I am about to embark on some of the repairs you have documented here. The one in particular I am beginning this week is the installation of a pump for the gas tank well (A fuel tank cavity sump). Almost everything you did is clear so I only have a few questions.

I have a 1987 20' Outrage. Everything is very similar to yours except I dont have the rear well.

First, do you have a closer detail of the pick up of the suction pipe assembly so I can see what you did there? You describe it as a pvc pipe mounted to a piece of mahagony. What I was thinking of doing is taking a 3/4 inch pvc 90 degree fitting with a short verticle nipple and mounting it with clamps so the pick up (the end of the verticle nipple) is virtually at the bottom of the fuel tank sump area to pick up any water. Then I would just transition to clear tube from the horizontal end of the 90 and run clear tubing up to the console pump. I was wondering what the purpose of the mahagony was.

I was also thinking of running the drain side of the pump tubing back down to the cockpit sump area and dumping in there so as to avoid a through hole fitting. What do you think about that?

I was also wondering about the front compartment sump pump you installed. Do you have any details on that? And why did you decide to put a pump in that compartment?

Oh, and where did you buy the sureflow self primimg pump? Is that a common marine store item?

Thanks for any advise and feedback you can provide.

posted 12-09-2006 11:14 AM ET (US)            

I have a lot of feelings about this pump set up I did. Some good some bad.

The idea I still think a great one but if I had it to do over again I would have used a much larger inner dia hose. Right now I am using 1/4" inner Dia hose and it just does not flow as well as it should. I would recommend going to 1/2" inner dia or larger. I would run that hose from the pump into the fuel tank cavity. Once in there I would a 90-degree elbow to run down to the bottom of the cavity as a pick up.

The 1/4 inner dia hose has also created such a restriction that the pump will not self-prime. So to solve this problem I added a fuel primer bulb on the exhaust side of the pump to help draw water into, and prime the pump.

I feel all of the issues I have encountered would be overcome if I had simply used a larger hose. I would say use the largest you can.

As for running the exhaust back through the rigging tunnel to the rear cockpit sump area....Well, that would work so long as the hose is draining overboard and not into the sump area. The reason I say this is because if water gets into that sump area and rigging tunnel it will go right back into the tank cavity through the through hull in the stringer. Also, always keep the rear sump/rigging tunnel plug in when the boat is in the water to help prevent water from entering the cavitiy.

I ran the exhaust to a through hull simply because I did not want to crowd an already crowded rigging tunnel even more.

I will say, because the foam has been removed from behind the tank I have found that any water easily collects there. Because the foam is gone I can pop the rear deck plate and use a wet/dry shop vac with a modified 1" hose to remove all the water in about a minute (I removed 3-5 gallons before storing the boat). I use this method whenever I can.

I truly think removing this water in the fuel cavity is an important step in helping your fuel tank last for a long time. Think about it, if that area is filled with water, and you store the boat any where in the winter where it will freeze, all the water will freeze into a large block thus creating a large force pushing against the walls of the cavity and the tank. This could crack a weld on the tank causing failure or even crack the fiberglass in the cavity.

The sump I added in the bow locker is there to pump any green water that could end up in there. It is also there to pump the locker out if it is moored during a heavy rain. The pump is an 1100 gph automatic rule pump. I also have one in the splash well of the boat. I leave these pumps on auto and running on one house battery when moored just in case.

As for pictures let me see what I can find when I get home. The boat is in winter storage right now otherwise I could run out and get lots of pictures for you.

Hope this helps,
Jeff

posted 12-17-2006 07:30 AM ET (US)            

Thanks for the reply. I do have a few more questions which I am gathering. Is your e-mail currently the Whaler Central address?

posted 12-21-2006 12:03 PM ET (US)            

This September I purchased a 1981 22 Outrage - it had obviously had a few more owners than I would have preferred, but the hull was in perfect shape and the engine was replaced in 1996 with an 225 Evinrude OceanPro which runs flawlessly. Two years ago I sold my 1989 22 revenge we had owned since new, so I had a general idea of how everything should flow. I also have a 1989 27 FC, a 1988 18 outrage, a 1989 17 sport, and previously owned a 1983 17 montauk. Bit of a classic whaler nut. I've had to do minor maintenance and repairs on these in the past but nothing like this one has turned out to need.

The previous owner of the boat installed a bilge pump in the spillwell of the boat expecting it to bail everything - he left the plug at the rear of the starboard tunnel along with all others. The boat came with no other pumps, and the only way for water to exit this tunnel was either overflowing - or into the fuel cavity.

Between the fuel cavity and the tunnel, the thru-hull in the stringer was clogged from the factory with the foam used to fill in around the gas tank, meaning for the last 25 years the only way for water to drain from here was the tunnel at the front of the boat. When I lifted deck of the boat, there was 1-2 inches of standing water across the fuel tank and foam. Didn't smell too nice. This was after being pulled from the water over a month ago and in heated storage.

When we pulled the main deck of the boat, it basically came out in two pieces - the deck - and the bottom plywood.

Thank you for writing a beautiful article on this repair.

I pulled the deck only to change the fuel lines and sending unit, and this is what I've ended up with. As with yours, Whaler did quite a shoddy job sealing everything after cutting, and with the extra few years mine had to rot, you can imagine the state the deck is in. I figure do it right once and I'll keep the boat for 20 years though.

Anyway, the electrical system in the boat is an absolute disaster. (Driving in the rain you would get quite the shock holding the wheel and the throttle at the same time) I found this caused by a bad ground the previous ownder must have put in. I was wondering if you had any pictures / notes on your rebuild of this system? If you do I would greatly appreciate it... and if it's no inconvenience you may be hearing from me regarding other issued I run into the next several months as well, though your article and this forum should answer the majority of my issues.

posted 08-22-2007 05:12 PM ET (US)            

The new owner of my boat should rest soundly knowing the floor is in good shape.

posted 03-24-2009 08:56 PM ET (US)            

I think you've heard all the superlatives on your article and the actual project itself.

As an owner of an '85 Outrage, I have a few questions that I haven't seen asked before;

Why not remove and replace the old foam with SPF Sprayed in Place Foam? I don't know if there would be an advantage to doing so or not.

Do you seal the screw holes with caulk when reinstalling the deck to insure that means of water entry is alleviated?

What type and brand of caulk did you use? Are you happy with its durability?

I pulled up the rear deck live well cover and it looked as if there had been previously applied beads of silicone caulk along the lower deck where the cover would have screwed down. As I am the original owner, it would have been done by the factory. Do you have insight on this?

I have been trying to dry my boat out for years between seasons and never relaized how much the foam could absorb. You have made everything much clearer for me.

Many thanks,

posted 03-27-2009 08:42 AM ET (US)            

The removal of the plywood was very labor intensive but with the help of a neighbor we had it all removed in 2 days. It took another day to grind off all the wood that remained attached to the fiberglass.

I used a 3/4" sheet of treated plywood leaving 2" on each side for shaping the area where BW had used 1/4" plywood. The edge of the plywood was bullnosed and then laminated to the underside of the deck using West system epoxy with a silica filler to give the epoxy more body.

After a few days I filleted the edge of the plywood to make a better surface to lay fiberglass. I used 4" wide biaxial fiberglass to cover the edge of the 3/4' Plywood to the edge of the deck. I then proceeded to fill the edge with fiberglass and fillers. The final layer was another layer of biaxial fiberglass. This brought the total thickness of the deck attachment area to a thickness of 1/2", I had to predrill all the attachment screw holes.

The entire bottom was saturated with epoxy before we reassembled the deck. I did not find any water at the bottom of the cavity where the fuel tank resides, so I did not install a sump and pump.

The nonskid looks very good and it is much better then the original that was part of the originally molded surface.

It all want back together and was ready for a scheduled rendezvous.

Again, thanks for your excellent details.

posted 08-11-2010 12:15 AM ET (US)            

Just purchased a 1989 22' Outrage. The foam around the fuel tank is saturated. The boat was stored bow up and it looks like the water is only in the last third of foam around backend and sides of the tank. My game plan was to remove the foam, vacuum out the water and replace the foam.

Also, I removed the old mounting screws from the previous (original) owner's depth transponder and get drips of water out of the holes low down on the transom, so I've go water in the transom. I drilled into the existing holes and got good colored wood so no dry rot has set in but I want to get the water out. Any suggestions?

Boat, trailer, 2 x 115-HP OptimMax engines, 115 gallons of fuel (option big fuel tank) two large 1000-A-h batteries, two electric downriggers, 92-quart cooler with ice, fishing gear and miscellaneous stuff, the scale was 5600-lbs.

Trailer 1600-lbs
Fuel 800-lbs
Engines 750-lbs
Batteries 200-lbs
Misc 200-lbs

That would leave hull weight of 2050-lbs which is rated dry weight plus or minus 200-lbs, so I'm guessing and hoping there not that much water in the boat.

On the transom, the local yard said they have had some luck drilling larger holes and putting their vacuum bagging machines on. They are a spendy yard so I'm trying to figure a DIY version.

posted 03-14-2012 03:57 PM ET (US)            

I have no problem at all talking over the phone. I much prefer it. It easier to do rather than emailing long explanations back and forth and it is faster to clarify and describe things.