OUTRAGE 18, Smell of Gasoline - Moderated Discussion Areas

  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Whaler Repairs/Mods
  OUTRAGE 18, Smell of Gasoline

search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   OUTRAGE 18, Smell of Gasoline

high sierra posted 11-25-2008 07:14 PM ET (US)
There is a fuel smell in my 1986 Outrage 18 when I fill it more than 3/4-FULL and drive the boat or trailer it. I have found a small vent tube located under the flange that the gas gauge sits upon. What is the small vent tube for? Where is it supposed go? high sierra
Buckda posted 11-25-2008 07:46 PM ET (US)
"small vent tube"
Are you the original owner and do you know if the vent hose was replaced?
The vent hose for the tank should be attached to the tank forward (check under the deck plate that is in front of your console) and should run in a continuous hose to the over-the-side vent mounted under the gunwale near the fuel fill cap that is ON the gunwale.
If it is not connected to either of these fittings, I don't know what it is. There is no vent tube on my tank near the gauge. The fuel filler line does attach forward and to port from your gauge (there should be another deck plate, partially concealed by the console that allows access to this).
It is possible that your fuel filler hose has deteriorated or is leaking.
high sierra posted 11-25-2008 07:59 PM ET (US)
Buckda, the vent tube in question is 1/4-inch in diameter and is located on the built up portion that the fuel gauge sits on and one inch below the gauge. It faces forward and is approximately 3/8 of an inch long. There is no hose on it. I capped it to see if that stops the fuel smell. I checked the forward vent (forward of the console) and all seems to be well. The other hoses seem to be alright except for the fuel line from the tank to the filter that I put in . That fitting is to the rear of the boat on the rear of the tank just forward of the spashwell. I used fuel injection hose which is slightly smaller than the original and a bitch to put on the fitting. A possibility when fully filled due to heavy sloshing back and forth. Fuel filler hose is dry with no staining on the hose. I am the second owner. high sierra
ChiTown Cetacean posted 11-25-2008 08:56 PM ET (US)
This is only a guess, but maybe it will point someone in the right direction. The 1/4 inch hose seems too small to be a vent hose.
And where do you think this 1/4 hose should lead to?
I would assume you have a larger (3/4 to 1 inch) vent hose coming out from the tank and then outside the hull through a standard thru-hull vent fitting.
Given your description of the fitting and its location, I would think this is related to a sender for a dash-mounted fuel gauge. Perhaps this was changed over from a mechanical sender to an electric or vice versa, and the extra fitting was never properly sealed off.
Assuming you have a larger vent hose providing proper tank ventilation, I think your solution is going to be to simply cap off the 1/4 inch fitting on the tank and be on your merry way.

jimh posted 11-25-2008 08:58 PM ET (US)
[Moved this discussion to REPAIRS/MODS.]
jimh posted 11-25-2008 09:00 PM ET (US)
With a boat more than 20-years old, the first place to look for a fuel leak when you smell gasoline is to the rubber hoses. After twenty years they deteriorate. When the tank is nearly full, fuel can sit in the filler tube, and if the rubber is permeable, it will leak out. It only takes a small volume of gasoline to produce a noticeable smell.
high sierra posted 11-25-2008 09:23 PM ET (US)
TO All, the fitting in question is a barbed fitting . I did place a cap over it . The water that ends up in the rear of the boat in the sump does have a sheen of fuel on it. Not much but still there. high sierra
high sierra posted 11-25-2008 09:34 PM ET (US)
ChiTown, yes there is a vent hose on the forward end of the tank through the hatch just forward of the console. Seems OK
JimH, I agree the hoses that haven't been replaced are a leading candidate for leaking.
The smell is the most prevalent when the boat is underway or has just been trailered after being filled to more than half a tank, not totally filled.
Does anyone else have that forward facing barbed fitting just below the gas gauge neck ? Easy to miss when looking right at it. High Sierra
Buckda posted 11-26-2008 08:49 AM ET (US)
High Sierra -
My 1986 Outrage with original tank has no such fitting. My biggest concern is the sheen that is produced by washing the area out.
If I were you, I'd be making plans to pressure test the tank to check for leaks, and as suggested, check/replace rubber hoses to eliminate them as suspects.
...and I'd be considering preparations to remove the console/RPS and fuel tank cover to inspect the tank.
The problem with those preparations is that, once you've done all that, it makes sense to just replace the tank. Your boat will be stripped down really far anyway. I did not, but my tank appeared to be solid at the time that I did it, so...fingers crossed on my end, since I don't want to have to to do that again soon...it was a long project.
Good luck.
Dave
Casco Bay Outrage posted 11-26-2008 10:20 AM ET (US)
High -
Any way you can post a photo of this errant hose?
jimh posted 11-26-2008 12:24 PM ET (US)
Because a boat is usually trimmed down by the stern, the vent location in a fuel tank is usually placed toward the forward end, the fuel generally staying to the aft part. The fuel level float is usually closer to the center, not so much for accuracy but because that is where a see-through pry-out deck plate to observe the gauge was most useful. From your narrative and description I envision a fuel vent line attached near the fuel level float, which is unusual and not the normal practice in a classic Boston Whaler boat.
A2J15Sport posted 11-26-2008 01:26 PM ET (US)
I had the same problem with a Non Whaler "Bay Boat".
It drove me nuts.
It eventually turned out to be the vent hose. It had a so-so-slight kink and the hose barb on the exterior vent was cracked.
I found it by completely removing the vent system and starting from scratch.
I STRONGLY suugess you look at all connections (Fuel-fill, vent, exit) from the tank. All of those coonections should be double clamped with self tightening clamps.
Graphiterod posted 11-26-2008 03:22 PM ET (US)
HS
I too own an 86 Outrage 18.
Three winters ago I replaced my tank.
On the old tank, and new, there was/is no vent tube near the fuel gauge. Can you post a picture.
I would start with the most simple/least expensive solution, and replace all fuel lines. If the fuel and fumes continue, you have a leak and need to replace the tank.
My new tank came from Florida Marine, and cost $600+/-. Their service is superb. My local yard charged me an arm and leg for labor, which cost them a loyal customer. (You can sheer a sheep twice a year, but only slaughter it once.)
Good luck.
high sierra posted 11-26-2008 03:59 PM ET (US)
The mystery of the fitting has been solved. The gas gauge area smelled lightly of gas so I removed the gauge and found the fitting was a threaded brass 90 that someone had used to replace the nut for the bolt that held the gas gauge down. I took the gas gauge out and found the rubber gasket has not been properly installed and what was possibly a paper gasket was mush. There was a lot more gas in the tank than the gauge indicated. It showed 3/8 of a tank and actually there was 3/4 of a tank. I used Loctite form a gasket along with the rubber O ring to reseal the unit. Hopefully this is the cure for the leak.
Is there a electrical gauge that can be installed in the tank hole? It's either that or a wooden stick like on the old Volkswagens in the 60's. Thanks for all the suggestions on the question. Prompted me to get to work on the problem. Thanks. high sierra
JMARTIN posted 11-26-2008 04:20 PM ET (US)
My 1983 77 gallon tank has an electrical sending unit to a gauge on the dash. It must be OEM. John
Casco Bay Outrage posted 11-26-2008 04:31 PM ET (US)
The original gauge was made by Rochester and can be obtained via www.e-components.net
high sierra posted 11-26-2008 04:44 PM ET (US)
Thanks all, high sierra
jimh posted 11-26-2008 04:58 PM ET (US)
If you want to convert to an electrical fuel gauge sender unit from the original mechanical gauge, see
Fuel Gauge Sender: Electrical
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000632.html
which has a good discussion of that topic.
elaelap posted 11-27-2008 11:47 AM ET (US)
Glad it turned out the way it did, Jim. While one of the major factors in my decision to buy a classic Outrage 18 rather than a new Montauk 170 was the 18's 63 gallon below-deck fuel tank, I was concerned about the possibility of that tank failing at some point, which would have necessitated a costly and complicated repair. Everything regarding boats is a trade-off. I loved having the weight of all that fuel as far down as possible, thus substantially improving its ballast ratio and capsize factor, especially if a comparable amount of fuel would have been needed to be carried in tanks topside. But a wonderfully-detailed photo story at this website--maybe in the Cetacea section--about replacement of an OR 18's fuel tank, always resonated in my mind as long as I owned "Cetaceous" (still my favorite Whaler, BTW).
Anyway, good luck, happy holidays, and I hope to see you and your new boat at the next NorCal rendezvous.
Tony
high sierra posted 11-27-2008 09:47 PM ET (US)

Tony today I thought about all the friends and cohorts that I have on this Thanksgiving day and am truly thankful for them, my family, my good health and my country.
I will do my best to be at the Rendezvous next year.
These past two have been shut down due to medical problems on my partners side. He's alright now so far.
You are more than welcome to drive my 18 and feel that old feeling again. I'm hitting 42 mph at 5000 feet and hope to see 50 thanks to rjgorion ( a member) who sent me all his testing with the same rig. high sierra Jim

Hop to:

Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.

Author	Topic: OUTRAGE 18, Smell of Gasoline
high sierra	posted 11-25-2008 07:14 PM ET (US) There is a fuel smell in my 1986 Outrage 18 when I fill it more than 3/4-FULL and drive the boat or trailer it. I have found a small vent tube located under the flange that the gas gauge sits upon. What is the small vent tube for? Where is it supposed go? high sierra
Buckda	posted 11-25-2008 07:46 PM ET (US) "small vent tube" Are you the original owner and do you know if the vent hose was replaced? The vent hose for the tank should be attached to the tank forward (check under the deck plate that is in front of your console) and should run in a continuous hose to the over-the-side vent mounted under the gunwale near the fuel fill cap that is ON the gunwale. If it is not connected to either of these fittings, I don't know what it is. There is no vent tube on my tank near the gauge. The fuel filler line does attach forward and to port from your gauge (there should be another deck plate, partially concealed by the console that allows access to this). It is possible that your fuel filler hose has deteriorated or is leaking.
high sierra	posted 11-25-2008 07:59 PM ET (US) Buckda, the vent tube in question is 1/4-inch in diameter and is located on the built up portion that the fuel gauge sits on and one inch below the gauge. It faces forward and is approximately 3/8 of an inch long. There is no hose on it. I capped it to see if that stops the fuel smell. I checked the forward vent (forward of the console) and all seems to be well. The other hoses seem to be alright except for the fuel line from the tank to the filter that I put in . That fitting is to the rear of the boat on the rear of the tank just forward of the spashwell. I used fuel injection hose which is slightly smaller than the original and a bitch to put on the fitting. A possibility when fully filled due to heavy sloshing back and forth. Fuel filler hose is dry with no staining on the hose. I am the second owner. high sierra
ChiTown Cetacean	posted 11-25-2008 08:56 PM ET (US) This is only a guess, but maybe it will point someone in the right direction. The 1/4 inch hose seems too small to be a vent hose. And where do you think this 1/4 hose should lead to? I would assume you have a larger (3/4 to 1 inch) vent hose coming out from the tank and then outside the hull through a standard thru-hull vent fitting. Given your description of the fitting and its location, I would think this is related to a sender for a dash-mounted fuel gauge. Perhaps this was changed over from a mechanical sender to an electric or vice versa, and the extra fitting was never properly sealed off. Assuming you have a larger vent hose providing proper tank ventilation, I think your solution is going to be to simply cap off the 1/4 inch fitting on the tank and be on your merry way.
jimh	posted 11-25-2008 08:58 PM ET (US) [Moved this discussion to REPAIRS/MODS.]
jimh	posted 11-25-2008 09:00 PM ET (US) With a boat more than 20-years old, the first place to look for a fuel leak when you smell gasoline is to the rubber hoses. After twenty years they deteriorate. When the tank is nearly full, fuel can sit in the filler tube, and if the rubber is permeable, it will leak out. It only takes a small volume of gasoline to produce a noticeable smell.
high sierra	posted 11-25-2008 09:23 PM ET (US) TO All, the fitting in question is a barbed fitting . I did place a cap over it . The water that ends up in the rear of the boat in the sump does have a sheen of fuel on it. Not much but still there. high sierra
high sierra	posted 11-25-2008 09:34 PM ET (US) ChiTown, yes there is a vent hose on the forward end of the tank through the hatch just forward of the console. Seems OK JimH, I agree the hoses that haven't been replaced are a leading candidate for leaking. The smell is the most prevalent when the boat is underway or has just been trailered after being filled to more than half a tank, not totally filled. Does anyone else have that forward facing barbed fitting just below the gas gauge neck ? Easy to miss when looking right at it. High Sierra
Buckda	posted 11-26-2008 08:49 AM ET (US) High Sierra - My 1986 Outrage with original tank has no such fitting. My biggest concern is the sheen that is produced by washing the area out. If I were you, I'd be making plans to pressure test the tank to check for leaks, and as suggested, check/replace rubber hoses to eliminate them as suspects. ...and I'd be considering preparations to remove the console/RPS and fuel tank cover to inspect the tank. The problem with those preparations is that, once you've done all that, it makes sense to just replace the tank. Your boat will be stripped down really far anyway. I did not, but my tank appeared to be solid at the time that I did it, so...fingers crossed on my end, since I don't want to have to to do that again soon...it was a long project. Good luck. Dave
Casco Bay Outrage	posted 11-26-2008 10:20 AM ET (US) High - Any way you can post a photo of this errant hose?
jimh	posted 11-26-2008 12:24 PM ET (US) Because a boat is usually trimmed down by the stern, the vent location in a fuel tank is usually placed toward the forward end, the fuel generally staying to the aft part. The fuel level float is usually closer to the center, not so much for accuracy but because that is where a see-through pry-out deck plate to observe the gauge was most useful. From your narrative and description I envision a fuel vent line attached near the fuel level float, which is unusual and not the normal practice in a classic Boston Whaler boat.
A2J15Sport	posted 11-26-2008 01:26 PM ET (US) I had the same problem with a Non Whaler "Bay Boat". It drove me nuts. It eventually turned out to be the vent hose. It had a so-so-slight kink and the hose barb on the exterior vent was cracked. I found it by completely removing the vent system and starting from scratch. I STRONGLY suugess you look at all connections (Fuel-fill, vent, exit) from the tank. All of those coonections should be double clamped with self tightening clamps.
Graphiterod	posted 11-26-2008 03:22 PM ET (US) HS I too own an 86 Outrage 18. Three winters ago I replaced my tank. On the old tank, and new, there was/is no vent tube near the fuel gauge. Can you post a picture. I would start with the most simple/least expensive solution, and replace all fuel lines. If the fuel and fumes continue, you have a leak and need to replace the tank. My new tank came from Florida Marine, and cost $600+/-. Their service is superb. My local yard charged me an arm and leg for labor, which cost them a loyal customer. (You can sheer a sheep twice a year, but only slaughter it once.) Good luck.
high sierra	posted 11-26-2008 03:59 PM ET (US) The mystery of the fitting has been solved. The gas gauge area smelled lightly of gas so I removed the gauge and found the fitting was a threaded brass 90 that someone had used to replace the nut for the bolt that held the gas gauge down. I took the gas gauge out and found the rubber gasket has not been properly installed and what was possibly a paper gasket was mush. There was a lot more gas in the tank than the gauge indicated. It showed 3/8 of a tank and actually there was 3/4 of a tank. I used Loctite form a gasket along with the rubber O ring to reseal the unit. Hopefully this is the cure for the leak. Is there a electrical gauge that can be installed in the tank hole? It's either that or a wooden stick like on the old Volkswagens in the 60's. Thanks for all the suggestions on the question. Prompted me to get to work on the problem. Thanks. high sierra
JMARTIN	posted 11-26-2008 04:20 PM ET (US) My 1983 77 gallon tank has an electrical sending unit to a gauge on the dash. It must be OEM. John
Casco Bay Outrage	posted 11-26-2008 04:31 PM ET (US) The original gauge was made by Rochester and can be obtained via www.e-components.net
high sierra	posted 11-26-2008 04:44 PM ET (US) Thanks all, high sierra
jimh	posted 11-26-2008 04:58 PM ET (US) If you want to convert to an electrical fuel gauge sender unit from the original mechanical gauge, see Fuel Gauge Sender: Electrical http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000632.html which has a good discussion of that topic.
elaelap	posted 11-27-2008 11:47 AM ET (US) Glad it turned out the way it did, Jim. While one of the major factors in my decision to buy a classic Outrage 18 rather than a new Montauk 170 was the 18's 63 gallon below-deck fuel tank, I was concerned about the possibility of that tank failing at some point, which would have necessitated a costly and complicated repair. Everything regarding boats is a trade-off. I loved having the weight of all that fuel as far down as possible, thus substantially improving its ballast ratio and capsize factor, especially if a comparable amount of fuel would have been needed to be carried in tanks topside. But a wonderfully-detailed photo story at this website--maybe in the Cetacea section--about replacement of an OR 18's fuel tank, always resonated in my mind as long as I owned "Cetaceous" (still my favorite Whaler, BTW). Anyway, good luck, happy holidays, and I hope to see you and your new boat at the next NorCal rendezvous. Tony
high sierra	posted 11-27-2008 09:47 PM ET (US) Tony today I thought about all the friends and cohorts that I have on this Thanksgiving day and am truly thankful for them, my family, my good health and my country. I will do my best to be at the Rendezvous next year. These past two have been shut down due to medical problems on my partners side. He's alright now so far. You are more than welcome to drive my 18 and feel that old feeling again. I'm hitting 42 mph at 5000 feet and hope to see 50 thanks to rjgorion ( a member) who sent me all his testing with the same rig. high sierra Jim