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Author Topic:   Seized Bolt Removal

Buckda posted 03-31-2011 08:16 PM ET (US)
There are four bolts with Phillips Heads that hold the bow bit on the Outrage. These are threaded through the fiberglass and into an aluminum backing plate underneath.
I am at the point to ask for help.
I have been able to remove one bolt, but the rest are resolute.
I've had little puddles of 3 in 1 oil sitting on the bolt heads for two weeks now.
I'm using the proper sized screwdriver, and have attempted hammering it while turning and very nearly burst a capillary in my eye trying to get those other three bolts to wiggle just even a little to get some of that oil down into the threads.
The heads are not stripped, but I'm getting close to pulling out the drill.
Any suggestions?
dfmcintyre posted 03-31-2011 08:29 PM ET (US)
Dave -
Normally in this situation I'd be firing up the torch, however in this instance...heat IS NOT our friend.
Two words. Die. Grinder. Having a shop vac operating in the vicinity will help.
D
ukuslayer posted 03-31-2011 08:31 PM ET (US)
Have you tried an impact screw driver? You can buy them at Napa or other automotive stores. Basically you set the direction you wish to turn the bolt or screw and then hit with a hammer. I have used them on many stuck screws and bolts and they work great especially for getting that first little turn to break the corrosion. If you haven't already it might be worth a try. Good luck.
Aloha,
Sean
John McBride posted 03-31-2011 08:31 PM ET (US)
If an impact driver won't work, consider using a drill to remove the head of the screw. Phillips head bolts are easy to drill of because the "X" serves at a centering point.
After you drill off the heads, pull off the bow bit and take vise grips to the exposed bolts and see if they'll unscrew.
Or if they are not counter sunk,try grabbing the heads of the bolts (before any drilling) with the vise grips and see if you can back them out that way.
Buckda posted 03-31-2011 08:41 PM ET (US)
That's what I was afraid of - these are countersunk....Looks like I'm going to the store tomorrow for a hammer screwdriver and a new small tip for my grinder. blah
Tom W Clark posted 03-31-2011 08:58 PM ET (US)
Dave -- Been there, done that. Take Sean's and John's advice...in that order.
If the impact driver does not get them loosened, then resort to drilling the heads off.
Before you try to do anything, be sure to soak them well with a good penetrating oil. I like Aero-Kroil, but if all you have is WD-40, that is not bad.
The one thing that will make a penetrating oil effective is time. Give it a night or two of soaking before you go at it with the impact driver.
When you do at it with the impact driver, do not be shy. Smack it once, smack it hard.
Over the LINE posted 03-31-2011 09:28 PM ET (US)
Impact driver!!! I have loosened many stainless in aluminum screws with mine. Lots of them on a sailboat. If it does not work the first time try a framing hammer.
number9 posted 04-01-2011 01:26 AM ET (US)
If not done so before, many times it helps to put force in the tightening direction to get it started moving.
prj posted 04-01-2011 10:03 AM ET (US)
I had the same problem on my Outrage back in 2008. The solution was to puddle weld nuts onto the seized machine bolts and wrench them off and out.
This only became the solution after exhausting all of the other options presented here. My saga:
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/015094.html
Good luck Dave.
Buckda posted 04-01-2011 01:45 PM ET (US)
Got them out.
After seeing the price of an impact driver online, I decided to give it another shot - this time, I used a drill bit adapter that fit into a small socket and used an air socket set at the maximum 90 PSI. They complained at first, but then came right out!
Thanks for your help... I can now begin to dry fit the bow pulpit.
Dave
jimh posted 04-02-2011 10:12 AM ET (US)
Dave--Good outcome, good story. It reminded me of the old joke:
Q: How many behavioral therapists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: It only takes, one, but the light bulb has to really want to change.
Your story is a corollary:
Q: How many Boston Whaler owners does it take to remove a frozen bolt?
A: It only takes one, but he has to really want to remove that frozen bolt.
Tom W Clark posted 04-02-2011 10:37 AM ET (US)
Dave -- Good work.
An impact driver from Sears is only $25
http://www.sears.com:80/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00947641000P
But it's only $5 from Harbor Freight:
http://www.harborfreight.com/7-piece-reversible-impact-driver-set-93481. html
I have owned an impact driver for several decades. It lives with my wrenches. I do not use it very often, but when I need it, I need it. It's good tool for anybody to have on hand.
jharrell posted 04-02-2011 10:59 AM ET (US)
I use my Ryobi 18v impact driver constantly for this sort of thing:
http://www.ryobitools.com/catalog/18v_oneplus/drills_drivers/P230
After using a drill with phillips bits for years I finally bought the impact driver, what a difference, it break screws free much easier and tends to strip them much less often.
Never used my air impact driver on screw heads, would be afraid it would strip them right out, but sounds like that worked too. The Ryobi is 1/4" drive and takes the same batteries as everything else I have, and with the half size lithiums it is extremely light and easy to use.
Ryobi just came out with a larger 1/2" impact wrench that runs on the 18v one batteries as well, that would be nice for the larger jobs, although I would probably just pull out my air tools at that point: http://www.ryobitools.com/catalog/power_tools/drills_drivers/P260
The Ryobi tools are addicting once they have quiet a few that all use the same batteries, I have been collecting them for years, and they upgraded to lithium, and still work with the old tools I had, and the tools themselves are inexpensive once you have the batteries.
Buckda posted 04-02-2011 02:27 PM ET (US)
It's not that I can't afford 30 bucks for a new tool...it's that I have my funds tied up in about 15 other projects on the boat right now. If I'm to get on the water this summer, I have to fund those projects and still meet my other obligations and save for gas money.
Therefore, this tool, while it's now on my list of things for my toolbox, will have to wait before it joins the others in the happy world of Dave's toolkit.
Thanks again for your help. I do see a use for this tool in the future, but hope I can go a few years before needing it.
Dave
Chuck Tribolet posted 04-02-2011 09:20 PM ET (US)
We're talking about two different kinds of impact drivers
here. One is powered by electricity or compressed air and
is properly called an impact wrench. The other you hammer
on, which is what ukuslayer meant when he first brought them
up. $5 at Harbor Freight.

Chuck
A Little Madness posted 04-08-2011 11:25 AM ET (US)
I'm really surprised that no one has yet to mention a product called PB Blaster. It's incredible on the worst siezed joints. Had a carbon shackle I inherited w/the boat which I was getting ready to cut. Applied PB Blaster generously, let sit for a couple of days, and it came right apart. Now I always have a can on hand. Carefull using it around the fiberglass, it can stain some, but I think you'll be pleased. Good Luck
Blackduck posted 04-08-2011 11:36 AM ET (US)
I would be willing to bet that if this is a saltwater boat, you will have to drill and tap. The aluminum and stainless are welded together by the salt action. No oils will break this bond, they just can't get to the frozen area. An impact driver will strip the head of the screw before it will break loose this "weld".
Buckda posted 04-08-2011 04:44 PM ET (US)
@ a little madness - I have PB Blaster, however, I've never been impressed with it to free stuck bolts.
@ Black duck...I'll take that bet, because you lost. This was a saltwater boat from 1983 until last April. I was able to free the stuck bolts without drilling them out. I did not break off the heads.
Anybody in the market for a bow bit?
modenacart posted 04-08-2011 04:57 PM ET (US)
It is pretty amazing what an impact wrench will remove.

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Author	Topic: Seized Bolt Removal
Buckda	posted 03-31-2011 08:16 PM ET (US) There are four bolts with Phillips Heads that hold the bow bit on the Outrage. These are threaded through the fiberglass and into an aluminum backing plate underneath. I am at the point to ask for help. I have been able to remove one bolt, but the rest are resolute. I've had little puddles of 3 in 1 oil sitting on the bolt heads for two weeks now. I'm using the proper sized screwdriver, and have attempted hammering it while turning and very nearly burst a capillary in my eye trying to get those other three bolts to wiggle just even a little to get some of that oil down into the threads. The heads are not stripped, but I'm getting close to pulling out the drill. Any suggestions?
dfmcintyre	posted 03-31-2011 08:29 PM ET (US) Dave - Normally in this situation I'd be firing up the torch, however in this instance...heat IS NOT our friend. Two words. Die. Grinder. Having a shop vac operating in the vicinity will help. D
ukuslayer	posted 03-31-2011 08:31 PM ET (US) Have you tried an impact screw driver? You can buy them at Napa or other automotive stores. Basically you set the direction you wish to turn the bolt or screw and then hit with a hammer. I have used them on many stuck screws and bolts and they work great especially for getting that first little turn to break the corrosion. If you haven't already it might be worth a try. Good luck. Aloha, Sean
John McBride	posted 03-31-2011 08:31 PM ET (US) If an impact driver won't work, consider using a drill to remove the head of the screw. Phillips head bolts are easy to drill of because the "X" serves at a centering point. After you drill off the heads, pull off the bow bit and take vise grips to the exposed bolts and see if they'll unscrew. Or if they are not counter sunk,try grabbing the heads of the bolts (before any drilling) with the vise grips and see if you can back them out that way.
Buckda	posted 03-31-2011 08:41 PM ET (US) That's what I was afraid of - these are countersunk....Looks like I'm going to the store tomorrow for a hammer screwdriver and a new small tip for my grinder. blah
Tom W Clark	posted 03-31-2011 08:58 PM ET (US) Dave -- Been there, done that. Take Sean's and John's advice...in that order. If the impact driver does not get them loosened, then resort to drilling the heads off. Before you try to do anything, be sure to soak them well with a good penetrating oil. I like Aero-Kroil, but if all you have is WD-40, that is not bad. The one thing that will make a penetrating oil effective is time. Give it a night or two of soaking before you go at it with the impact driver. When you do at it with the impact driver, do not be shy. Smack it once, smack it hard.
Over the LINE	posted 03-31-2011 09:28 PM ET (US) Impact driver!!! I have loosened many stainless in aluminum screws with mine. Lots of them on a sailboat. If it does not work the first time try a framing hammer.
number9	posted 04-01-2011 01:26 AM ET (US) If not done so before, many times it helps to put force in the tightening direction to get it started moving.
prj	posted 04-01-2011 10:03 AM ET (US) I had the same problem on my Outrage back in 2008. The solution was to puddle weld nuts onto the seized machine bolts and wrench them off and out. This only became the solution after exhausting all of the other options presented here. My saga: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/015094.html Good luck Dave.
Buckda	posted 04-01-2011 01:45 PM ET (US) Got them out. After seeing the price of an impact driver online, I decided to give it another shot - this time, I used a drill bit adapter that fit into a small socket and used an air socket set at the maximum 90 PSI. They complained at first, but then came right out! Thanks for your help... I can now begin to dry fit the bow pulpit. Dave
jimh	posted 04-02-2011 10:12 AM ET (US) Dave--Good outcome, good story. It reminded me of the old joke: Q: How many behavioral therapists does it take to change a light bulb? A: It only takes, one, but the light bulb has to really want to change. Your story is a corollary: Q: How many Boston Whaler owners does it take to remove a frozen bolt? A: It only takes one, but he has to really want to remove that frozen bolt.
Tom W Clark	posted 04-02-2011 10:37 AM ET (US) Dave -- Good work. An impact driver from Sears is only $25 http://www.sears.com:80/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00947641000P But it's only $5 from Harbor Freight: http://www.harborfreight.com/7-piece-reversible-impact-driver-set-93481. html I have owned an impact driver for several decades. It lives with my wrenches. I do not use it very often, but when I need it, I need it. It's good tool for anybody to have on hand.
jharrell	posted 04-02-2011 10:59 AM ET (US) I use my Ryobi 18v impact driver constantly for this sort of thing: http://www.ryobitools.com/catalog/18v_oneplus/drills_drivers/P230 After using a drill with phillips bits for years I finally bought the impact driver, what a difference, it break screws free much easier and tends to strip them much less often. Never used my air impact driver on screw heads, would be afraid it would strip them right out, but sounds like that worked too. The Ryobi is 1/4" drive and takes the same batteries as everything else I have, and with the half size lithiums it is extremely light and easy to use. Ryobi just came out with a larger 1/2" impact wrench that runs on the 18v one batteries as well, that would be nice for the larger jobs, although I would probably just pull out my air tools at that point: http://www.ryobitools.com/catalog/power_tools/drills_drivers/P260 The Ryobi tools are addicting once they have quiet a few that all use the same batteries, I have been collecting them for years, and they upgraded to lithium, and still work with the old tools I had, and the tools themselves are inexpensive once you have the batteries.
Buckda	posted 04-02-2011 02:27 PM ET (US) It's not that I can't afford 30 bucks for a new tool...it's that I have my funds tied up in about 15 other projects on the boat right now. If I'm to get on the water this summer, I have to fund those projects and still meet my other obligations and save for gas money. Therefore, this tool, while it's now on my list of things for my toolbox, will have to wait before it joins the others in the happy world of Dave's toolkit. Thanks again for your help. I do see a use for this tool in the future, but hope I can go a few years before needing it. Dave
Chuck Tribolet	posted 04-02-2011 09:20 PM ET (US) We're talking about two different kinds of impact drivers here. One is powered by electricity or compressed air and is properly called an impact wrench. The other you hammer on, which is what ukuslayer meant when he first brought them up. $5 at Harbor Freight. Chuck
A Little Madness	posted 04-08-2011 11:25 AM ET (US) I'm really surprised that no one has yet to mention a product called PB Blaster. It's incredible on the worst siezed joints. Had a carbon shackle I inherited w/the boat which I was getting ready to cut. Applied PB Blaster generously, let sit for a couple of days, and it came right apart. Now I always have a can on hand. Carefull using it around the fiberglass, it can stain some, but I think you'll be pleased. Good Luck
Blackduck	posted 04-08-2011 11:36 AM ET (US) I would be willing to bet that if this is a saltwater boat, you will have to drill and tap. The aluminum and stainless are welded together by the salt action. No oils will break this bond, they just can't get to the frozen area. An impact driver will strip the head of the screw before it will break loose this "weld".
Buckda	posted 04-08-2011 04:44 PM ET (US) @ a little madness - I have PB Blaster, however, I've never been impressed with it to free stuck bolts. @ Black duck...I'll take that bet, because you lost. This was a saltwater boat from 1983 until last April. I was able to free the stuck bolts without drilling them out. I did not break off the heads. Anybody in the market for a bow bit?
modenacart	posted 04-08-2011 04:57 PM ET (US) It is pretty amazing what an impact wrench will remove.