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Author Topic:   Yamaha T8 Kicker Motor with Remote Control
kingfish posted 08-03-2004 10:09 AM ET (US)   Profile for kingfish   Send Email to kingfish  
Has anyone here on the forum purchased a Yamaha Hi-thrust 4-stroke remote control kicker for their Whaler (or their *other* boat)?

I have, and I would like to compare notes with anyone else who also has, particularly regarding just what came *with* your motor and what didn't.

Many thanks, and e-mail is fine-


kingfish posted 08-04-2004 09:53 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Thanks for the e-mail reply, Barnett.

Anybody else?

jimh posted 08-04-2004 02:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Even better than email is a reply posting, or perhaps John will sumarize the findings in a follow-up article.
onlyawhaler posted 08-04-2004 02:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for onlyawhaler  Send Email to onlyawhaler     

I have the 8hp Yamaha 4stroke, but without the remote. I have the electric start, electric trim, tiller handle version.

I know you were looking for remote info, can't help you there, my question is have you bought the engine and and how did the weight affect your ability to trim down all the way. It is a HEAVY kicker.


kingfish posted 08-04-2004 03:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Sorry, wasn't thinking about forum continuity. I will follow up here with results if Barnett doesn't post his remarks here.


I do have the motor, mounted on my Outrage 22. I have two batteries in the splashwell on the starboard side, and the T8 kicker mounted on the port side, and have had the boat out a number of times with the kicker mounted, although not running yet. Static trim has lowered a little (stern heavy)with all that weight right at the stern, but not a whole lot; couple of inches maybe. The biggest difference I've found, and was surprised to find, is that it is noticeably slower getting up on full plane. I have trim tabs, so I can work with that, but it is clearly pushing more water than it was before the addition of the kicker. The trade off is having a kicker that I can lower, start and operate without ever leaving the console, and is well worth it for me.

A couple of weeks ago at the Port Huron Rendezvous when my neutral lockout was acting up, JimH, Don McIntyre and myself were all clustered around the main motor at the same time and nobody got wet feet, I don't think. We're not lardbutts, but we're not lightweights either, certainly in excess of 600 pounds between us.


Joe Kriz posted 08-04-2004 04:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for Joe Kriz  Send Email to Joe Kriz     

Yes, it would be nice to hear from all who replied.
I am also very interested in the information concerning this motor.

I have no idea why Sterling is have problems getting enough down trim on his main engine after he installed the T8 Yamaha. I have the same main motor as he does but my kicker is about 40 pounds lighter. I have no problems and I have a battery and 2 oilers in the splashwell.

onlyawhaler posted 08-05-2004 03:15 AM ET (US)     Profile for onlyawhaler  Send Email to onlyawhaler     
Hi Joe and John,

This darn 8 hp Yamaha electric everything has been the vice of my whaler boating experience this year. Without it, the 18 OR flies on plane (18 pitch OMC raker) and even at altitude I can hit 44 MPH (5000 ft high) at WOT. With out it, trim is perfect, up and nose in and cutting waves, it is boat without guile with no bad tendencies whatsoever.

With that motor, plane time has doubled 6-7 seconds vs 3.5, I have to keep trim all the way down all the time to keep from porposing and have no dig the nose in capability. Top speed at WOT dropped to 41.

The Yamaha 8 4stroke kicker is a great trolling motor, but I think it with electric start, electric trim and tiller handle the weight (combined with other things) pushs over the balance limit that an 18 can handle and still keep a good trim angle.

I do keep two batteries in the rear and a oil tank. I don't want to move the batteries foward to the middle and lose the storage space.

I tried moving the main Johnson 150 up a hole, down a hole, nothing. I am at the max trim in on the last hole on the main. I installed a hydrafoil on the main, helped a bit.

Last time out I pulled the plug on the front anchor locker and flooded it half full and kept the plug in just to see if the weight foward would help. Getting on plane was about the same (6 seconds) but the trim angle was improved, porposing dimminished while triming up.

Poor fix, but it seems to demonstrate the weight aft is too much with that kicker, batteries and oil tank.

I would be really interested in anyone that has an 18 OR wiht a similar 4 stroke kicker in weight and how it has affected them


Wet Foot posted 08-11-2004 02:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for Wet Foot  Send Email to Wet Foot     
Hi Onlyawhaler,

I have the same kicker on my 18 Dauntless. I chose a 125HP Mercury main engine so I would'nt be over the transom weight limit with the 120LB kicker. I have no specs on speed without it since it's too heavy for me to take off. My boat is slow to get on plane and wont plane at all with 200 lb person sitting in back. Whalers 510 LB transom limit must not apply with a heavy kicker off to the side. I would like to sell the motor and buy a lighter one.

kingfish posted 08-11-2004 03:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Wish I was still in the market for a T8, so I could help you out with your problem ;-)...

I think here like in so many other things, there is quite a range of preferences and opinions regarding the weight of the T8 and its effect on the performance of a given boat.

Barnett Childress has one on a Montauk, and is very happy with it, and having now been out again in my Outrage 22 with the kicker mounted (but still not running - getting *real* close though), I am less concerned with the magnitude of the loss of hole shot than I first was. Perhaps more accurately said, the loss is not as great as it seemed at first. The differential in weight between the electric start, electric tilt T8 and other four stroke 9.9 hp kickers, is somewhere in the 25# to 30# category; really not too big a deal in the overall scheme of things. At least not to me...

I plan on a full descriptive article when my install is complete, but I'll tickle the audience here with a couple of things - I wound up using a new OMC (Bombardier) dual binnacle mount control, and it fits exactly into the hole in the console where my OMC single binnacle mount control had been, takes up the same space, and uses the same bolt holes. And I've found (and ordered) a front tie-bar from Teleflex that is designed to attach a main motor Seastar hydraulic front mount cylinder (which I have) to a kicker (which I have), with a universal joint that, if it operates the way I hope, will be a permanent steering tie bar that will allow either motor to be tilted while the other is down, or both to be tilted together, and look like it was meant to happen that way.

Stay tuned...

kingfish posted 08-23-2004 08:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Otay - here is the article. Photos are being developed (in the general sense).

Mounting a 2004 Yamaha T8 kicker
on a
1992 Outrage 22 w/1992 Evinrude 225

1. Choosing a kicker:
I knew going in that I wanted a 4-stroke motor, preferably hi-thrust, with full remote control capacity: remote steering, start, throttle and shift, that I could operate from the helm just as if I had twins. I was also looking (if I found there were such choices) for a high output charging system and alternative manual start, thinking that there might be circumstances where I would want the ability to use the quiet 4-stroke as sort of an on-board generator, and it might be nice to be able to start it manually if the batteries were discharged too far to start it electrically. I’d had positive experiences with a Yamaha 9.9 HP Hi-thrust 4-stroke kicker on another boat, the main motor of which was also a Yamaha, and I looked carefully at all the other offerings (Mercury, Bombardier, etc.) and found none of them had everything I wanted. I stalled out trying to prioritize those features I felt were critical if I couldn’t have everything, and in the course of correspondence with friend and frequent forum contributor Tom Clark, Tom mentioned he had a friend with a Yamaha T8 with electric tilt, and suggested I take a hard look at it.

I did, and I liked what I saw. The electric tilt, besides being another convenient remote control option, solved the riddle of how I was going to mount the kicker (on the transom, on a lift bracket, or whatever) and how I would secure it when not in use; I mounted it right on the transom and simply tilt it up to the full up position when I am not using it.

The T8 is 4-stroke, hi-thrust outboard with electric tilt and the model of T8 I purchased (T8PLRC) is set up for remote control and has no tiller arm. It does have an external shifter handle on the starboard side of the motor with a bracket in front of it to capture the outer casing of the shift cable as well as that of the throttle cable that enters the lower cowling front through a grommet. A full factory installed wiring harness pigtail leaves the front of the motor as well as positive and negative battery cables. The harness is wired for a remote key switch, tilt, electric choke, alarm and neutral safety switch and when coupled with a Yamaha key switch has extra male splash proof bullet connectors for a tachometer, and other gauges and accessories.

The charging system is 6 amp; I would have preferred more, but that seems to be about the norm for 9.9 HP and smaller motors. It does not have an external recoil starter rope, but it is a fairly simple process to remove a few screws, pull a cover off the flywheel and have the ability to wrap a rope around the perimeter of the flywheel to pull start the motor.

2. Choosing a Dual Binnacle Mount (DBM) control:
I was mixing and matching both manufacturers and “eras” of motors here with a 2004 Yamaha kicker and a 1992 Evinrude main, both of which I wanted to control like twins from a dual binnacle mount control that would replace the single OMC binnacle mount control currently on my console. I had already had positive experience with a Yamaha 704 DBM control on another boat, and liked it a lot, but I was concerned with the likelihood that I would have to at least figure out how to adapt the existing cables to my Evinrude 225, if not replace them entirely.

The whole subject of interchangeability between remote controls and cables and two differing makes of motors is still a little foggy to me. I had hoped to come to a full understanding of what my all my options were before I pulled the trigger, but unfortunately never reached the comfort level of having done so. After throwing the question up on the forum here, and gleaning what information I could from a well-known Whaler dealer that had a close relationship with a Yamaha dealer and not getting the warm and fuzzy feeling of knowledge I was looking for, I tossed the question out to my local (non-Whaler) marina and OMC dealership. They came back to me that the OMC DBM would work well, might possibly need some minor adaptation of wiring harness connectors for my main motor, and would operate cables with threaded ends at the motor (variously referred to as, “international cables”, and “Teleflex-style cables” by those I worked with – still not sure of their correct nomenclature), that would work with the Yamaha kicker. I would need new key switches not only for Yamaha kicker, but also for my Evinrude 225 due to the fact that the new OMC DBM control does not have an integral key switch as my old single binnacle mount did.

The OMC DBM control (eureka!) not only fit into the opening for the original single control, but it used the same screw holes and attached cables in the same way with the same hardware. Going with the OMC DBM, given that I was replacing an OMC, and that I had an OMC main motor, was a great decision!

3. Mounting the kicker:
I chose a 20” lower unit on the new kicker, as recommended by my Outrage 22 Owners manual. I hung it on the port side, because I have two batteries on the starboard side in the splash well, and there would have been interference. When hung as far from the main motor as possible for clearance and such that full turning of the new kicker would not cause its lower unit and my port side trim tab to exchange molecules, I found two things right off the bat: first, the port side lifting and towing eye was underneath the kicker transom bracket, and second the ventilation plate was quite a ways below the dead rise. I removed the lifting and towing eye and filled the void with 3M 4200 for a temporary fix until winter when I will plug, epoxy and gelcoat the opening. Since I used the towing eyes to tie the transom down to the trailer when towing, and was now one attachment short, I added a stainless steel screw eye to the port side of the kicker motor transom bracket, and I now tie the transom down to the trailer on the port side by use of that. I raised the kicker transom bracket up as far as would allow me to still get a good bite on the transom with the integral screw clamps, and then drilled the transom for two through bolts, one on each side at the bottom of the transom bracket. This raised the kicker so that it was effectively elevated just about exactly the same amount as my main motor in relation to the transom, which would also help create a more level connection for the steering tie bar later, and still kept the ventilation plate well below the dead rise, for good prop bite.

4. Connecting the kicker:
· Fuel
I relocated the fuel water separator that came on my Outrage 22 some time ago from the starboard splashwell to just underneath the port side gunwale, as I was uncomfortable with the way the f/w separator would become immersed in following seas, etc. This was a single input and single output Racor model, so using the same location I installed a high volume double input double output Racor. I have two separate fuel lines coming from the tank to the separator inputs and a separate output line to each motor. I have not yet installed separate petcocks, but it is going to happen shortly.

· Electric
I used a Yamaha key switch with integral warning horn and kill switch, and a 26’ 10-pin Yamaha wiring harness that I ultimately cut back to about 19’ and re-attached the end connector with Waytek fully insulated heat shrink butt connectors for each wire (the next shortest Yamaha harness was 16’). The new OMC DBM control came with a pigtail and Deutsch 3-way connector for T/T on each motor and a long 2-wire pigtail with splash proof bullet connectors for the neutral safety switches. I don’t have the Deutsch tools for making up new connectors, so I bought a 3-foot 2-wire extension and a 3-foot 3-wire extension which each had a male Deutsch connector on one end and female Deutsch connector on the other end. It was then simple to cut the extensions to the desired length and use Waytek fully insulated heat shrink butt connectors to make neat, secure and permanent connections for the separate wires; I staggered the locations of the butt connectors both here and on the main harness so they wouldn’t look like a snake swallowing a pig, and double wrapped the entire new pigtail with 3M electrical tape. I followed the same process to adapt the previously separate wires behind my dashboard to the new OMC key switch, with a 2-wire, 3-wire and 6-wire Deutsch extension. Now all my electric connections for both motors have Deutsch quick disconnects. I currently have the Yamaha battery cables wired to battery #2 and the Evinrude wired to battery #1, with a 4-way battery switch. I may delve further into this arrangement at a later date.

· Steering
I have Teleflex Seastar hydraulic steering with a front-mount cylinder on the main motor. I stumbled across a trolling motor bracket and tie bar made by Teleflex on the Teleflex website, that is made for the exact hydraulic steering system I have, and I purchased one. It consists of a cast bracket that screws securely and permanently to the front mount cylinder, about 3’ of stainless steel threaded rod (5/8” dia. I think) with black plastic sheath to cover it, and a threaded ball joint for the end of the threaded rod that attaches to the Seastar bracket, and a threaded ball joint for the end of the threaded rod that attaches to the kicker with an eye to bolt to the kicker steering bracket. I spent the better part of a day heating and bending a dogleg into the stainless rod and shortening it to the right length, so now the two motors are attached to each other via the steering arm all the time, and both can be raised or lowered in tandem or separately, with no interference.

· Shift and throttle cables
The original cables for my Evinrude 225 simply and quickly connected to their side of the new DBM control and that was that. I wanted to run the cables for the kicker in the port side rigging tunnel but I had already run the Yamaha wiring harness, a pretty sizable cable, on that side and had a bit of a time getting the end connector to go around the fuel fill and vent lines which cross the port side tunnel and take up nearly all the space available. It may be that by temporarily removing those two lines the cables could be run in that tunnel, but I wasn’t up to it so I measured for the starboard rigging tunnel. I used a string and tried to measure conservatively (that is I always tried to err towards more length rather than less length) and decided I needed 25’ cables. My marina promptly told me that above 20’ those cables came in even 2-foot increments so I could have 24’ or 26’. I went with 24’, and I think I could have gotten away with 22’; I know I could have used 23’ cables if there had been such a thing. As it is, there is sort of a tight loop in the kicker cables in the splash well; I have heard that is a good idea anyway, so I guess it’s OK. The little plastic terminals screwed on to the ends of the cables and connected up to the respective linkages without any problems.

5. Running the kicker:
This past weekend I had an opportunity courtesy of Don Jahncke and his organization of the second annual Mullett Lake Rendezvous, to test out the new kicker set up pretty thoroughly, and I am simply blown away with how well it works! On Saturday we ran from Dons family cottage on Mullett Lake through Indian River to Burt Lake, through Crooked River to Crooked Lake, through Pickerel Channel to Pickerel Lake, and back to Dons cottage again, a trip of about 60 miles. All of Indian River is designated as idle/no wake, and many sections of Crooked River are the same. While running in the lakes at speed, I’d raise the kicker, and between the tilt motor and the steering tie bar, the motor was as secure as I would ever want it to be, and would simply turn to follow the main motor when I steered. When we’d slow down and approach an idle/no wake zone, I would lower the kicker while underway, start it, put it in gear and guess at the speed it needed to match the speed the main motor was pushing the boat. I’d then take the main motor out of gear and shut it down, picking up propulsion now entirely from the kicker. I’d reverse the process at the other end of the no wake zone, and I was able to do all of this without leaving the helm. I didn’t realize the amount of sympathetic vibrations that are present throughout my Outrage 22 when the big Evinrude 225 2-stroke is idling, but it turns out that the little 8 HP 4-stroke kicker is not only silent, but the entire boat is quieter and rides dramatically smoother due to the smoothness of the new motor.

This is one cool set up! I can’t wait to try it out on the Lake Michigan salmon…

JOHN W MAYO posted 08-24-2004 01:48 AM ET (US)     Profile for JOHN W MAYO    
A very good description. Are you going to have any pictures posted soon for us? Sounds like a nice setup.
kingfish posted 08-24-2004 09:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Yes, I hope to have photos available within days.

Another *large* issue that I considered and struggled with but forgot to report on the article above, was deciding whether 8 HP was enough poop for an Outrage 22. Initially my thinking had been to find the largest (most horsepower) that I could within say 120-125 pounds. That had me pointing to at least 15 HP and maybe more, but Louis Kokinis who has a beautifully matched and rigged 15 HP Mercury for a kicker on his beautifully appointed commercial 22, told me that if he did it again he would not go with a kicker that big. So I adjusted my thinking to a 9.9 HP model of some make, and when Tom Clark alerted me to the electric tilt option on the Yamaha T8, I resolved to "gamble" that I would be satisfied with the power the T8 provided on my Outrage 22.

As far as I am concerned, my "gamble" on the T8 paid off in big numbers. I found this past weekend that the T8 will push Outré to nearly 6 mph, which is just about hull speed anyway and plenty for an emergency back up if the main motor failed, unless I wanted to acomodate the weight of a much larger and heavier motor that had the capacity to get us up on plane. And I don't. Additionally, the elephant ear prop on the T8 actually will bring the boat to a stop when reversed *better* and *quicker* than the prop on the 225 HP main motor.

Does the T8 have the HP to operate as a kicker on an Outrage 22? YOU BET!

JOHN W MAYO posted 08-25-2004 12:55 AM ET (US)     Profile for JOHN W MAYO    
Did not notice any less top end speed, more time to get on plain or any trim problems after your installation of the T8, as I understand may be the case on mounting on a 18-19 ft from some other post?
Bigshot had also advised that the 8hp would be pleanty for my 19, and you confirm that with the results you have.
kingfish posted 08-25-2004 09:03 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
As I said above, there is a difference in the effort needed to get on plane from before mounting the T8 to afterwards, though it is not as great as I initially sensed. Having now run probably a couple of hundred miles in aggregate with the T8 hung on the transom, I have no complaints about the extra weight at all. I now think static trim at rest may be an inch or so lower in the stern than before, and I have trim tabs so at speed I'm used to adjusting them as necessary anyway. Keep in mind that at about 120#, the electric trim electric start T8 only adds about 20# to the weight of most 9.9 HP kickers; not much in the overall scheme of things. To reach a weight that is dramatically lower in a kicker, I think you'd have to go to a 6 HP or 8 HP 2-stroke. I would sense that in a Montauk or an Outrage 18 the trim differential might be more dramatic if the decision is made to have the battery(s) mounted at the stern also, but that is certainly a personal decision.
kingfish posted 08-25-2004 02:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
OK - here are the photos (and thanks to Ron Burmeister for the full shot of Outré under power by the new T8).

I am brand new to Tahoo photos, so here's hoping the link below works like I intend it to.

[Dead links removed.]

Backlash posted 08-25-2004 06:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for Backlash  Send Email to Backlash     

Nice photos showing a very clean installation. Boy you really have to look hard at the first photo to see that little guy! Great job!


kingfish posted 08-25-2004 07:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Thanks Steve-

I thought you were talking about me there for a second...

Truly, the T8 is really dwarfed by the big Evinrude. Barnett Childress sent me some photos of the T8 he set up on his Montauk on a bracket, and it holds its own much better against his 90 (also Yamaha as I recall).

I'll be able to sneak around those GLBWCC rendezvous marinas now neither making any noise nor leaving a trail behind me!


Barnett Childress posted 08-25-2004 07:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barnett Childress  Send Email to Barnett Childress     
Kingfish congrats, that setup came out very nice! It's very similar to the T8 setup on my Montauk. The T8 pushes the Montauk 1MPH at tick over and about 7-8MPH full throttle. I agree with everything you said about this little engine, smooth, quiet, simply great.

I'd post pictures of my similar setup with Yamaha 90, T8 kicker, dual binnacle controls, electric start, etc) if someone can tell me how to post a link to pics?

JOHN W MAYO posted 08-25-2004 11:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for JOHN W MAYO    
Great photo's, nice set up, It looks like there is not much room between the two engines, you have it rigged very nicely.
Your notes and photo's would be good in the reference section.
andygere posted 08-26-2004 02:03 AM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
John, nice install and excellent article. The more you run that kicker, the happier you will be that you set it up with a dual binnacle control and electric start. I can't even imagine how nice the power tilt is! I'm glad to see that the kicker installation does not interfere with your trim tabs. I've considered tabs for my Outrage, but always thought the kicker would be in the way. Your tie down loop is a clever idea, but I suspect if the boat really wanted to move, the eye would open up or snap right off. The original rigger of my boat simply removed the port lifting/towing eye and filled the hole with epoxy. I purchased a new one and (ulp!) got our my forstner bit and drilled a new hole between the kicker and the main. After brushing the inside of the hole with a few coats of epoxy, I installed the new eye. It bugs me that the starboard eye is several inches farther outboard, but I've yet to have enough time to move it over and fill it's old hole. I might never do it, and just live with asymmetrical towing eyes.
kingfish posted 08-26-2004 08:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Thanks Andy-

I'm sure you're right about the eye bolt; it was/is a temporary fix while I see if I can come to terms with an asymmetrical mounting of the OEM lifting/towing eye, like yours. I've kept the OEM eye, and hadn't thought of moving the starboard eye to bring things back into balance; I'll give some attention to that notion. It took the photo for me to realize that I could have at least turned the eye bolt 180° so the shank would have to bend rather than the eye simply just opening up. I'll fix that this weekend. This may also push me to think a little harder about how I might develop some kind of gunwale tie down system. The trailer has eyes for that about a foot or so forward of the transom.

The tie bar system turned out to be such that both motors reach full turns, both ways, at the same time. As long as the tie bar is connected, neither motor touches the other no matter what attitude either motor is in. At full left turn the lower unit of the kicker clears the trim tab by about 3/4". There are about 16 ways that I could have had interference of some sort that would have been disappointing, but I am happy to say that everything worked out. (I don't normally count on that degree of success, and I am consequently mightily pleased when everything falls in my favor.)

Joe Kriz posted 08-26-2004 08:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for Joe Kriz  Send Email to Joe Kriz     

I searched all over the Teleflex site and was unable to find the tie-bar you mention.

Can you steer us (that was a pun) in the right direction?


kingfish posted 08-26-2004 10:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     

Take a bearing on this ( it is *really* difficult to find this on the Seastar site).

rehenderson posted 08-28-2004 07:20 AM ET (US)     Profile for rehenderson  Send Email to rehenderson     
Great contribution, Kingfish! Thanks.
kingfish posted 08-28-2004 09:44 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
You're welcome.

Some author I turn out to be - I keep thinking of things that should have been included in the original article but that I forgot about while writing - here are two more:

First, under the heading of "Mounting the kicker", I should have mentioned that the motor arrived with the trim angle adjusting rod in the lowest set of holes, which, when the motor was mounted, had the motor trimmed too far in when the electric trim was in the full down position. To get the lower unit to be neutral (vertical) and parallel with the main, I moved the trim angle adjusting bar to the set of holes next-to-furthest from the transom. It was actually the most inboard adjusting rod hole on the port side that I used for the tie down eye bolt.

Second, under the heading of "trailering" (if I had such a heading), I would report that with the 20" lower unit, I am able to tow with the kicker in the full down position and actually have more clearance below its skeg than I have below the skeg of the main motor when it is supported by the transom saver I use when on the road.


home Aside posted 08-28-2004 12:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for home Aside  Send Email to home Aside     
Great job and Nice article........another great addition to the meticulus Outre!!!


jimh posted 08-29-2004 04:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
John's fine article documenting the terrific installation of the Yamaha T8 Hi-Thrust auxiliary engine on his 1992 Boston Whaler OUTRAGE 22 is now available in the REFERENCE Section of the website. Please see:

Mounting a Yamaha T8 Four-Stroke Kicker
On a 1992 OUTRAGE 22 with Evinrude 225-HP Main Engine

by John Flook


The article links back to this thread for follow-up comments and questions to John.

Joe Kriz posted 08-29-2004 05:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for Joe Kriz  Send Email to Joe Kriz     

Teleflex is sure proud of that tie-bar kit.
I found it online here for $259.00,
Were you able to find a better price?

On my 1985 Outrage 18, I was trying to figure out how my Panther tie-bar kit was going to work with the Hydraulic Steering system if and when I ever got around to changing it from the twin cable steering I have now. Here is a photo of the Panther tie-bar, and the throttle and shift cables that are on my kicker now.

I didn't think my Panther kit would work with the center Hydraulic cylinder as there would probably be some interference problems and now you have given me an alternative.

I have already installed the OMC Dual Binnacle controls last year so my next step up would be Hydraulic Steering and the Teleflex tie-bar kit #HO6010 no matter what the kicker choice would be.

I am not sure about the T8 for an Outrage 18. It is fairly heavy with Trim & Tilt plus another battery, plus having to wire up another ignition swithch like you have. I sure would like to find out more about Sterlings problem with the same engine on an 18.
I also know Royce has the T8 but he has not mounted it on his 18 yet.
I think I will let Royce be the Guinea Pig this time around as I can't visit Sterling due to distance.

Great Article and your installation looks great on your Outrage 22'.

Joe Kriz posted 08-29-2004 06:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for Joe Kriz  Send Email to Joe Kriz     

I re-read the article and have another question and a suggestion.

What type or brand of control cables did you purchase for the Yamaha that fit into the OMC Dual Binnacle?

This would be very helpful to other people in the future.

Maybe putting these cables and tie-bar kit in bold letters might also stand out when others are looking to purchase these parts for their setup.

Like parts needed or parts purchased:

1.Teleflex Tie-Bar Kit #HO6010
Price = ????

2.Teleflex Throttle & Shift Cables #????
Price = ????

3.OMC Dual Binnacle Control #175259
Price = ????
I am not positive this is the correct part number for the Dual Binnacle but I think it is.

4.OMC Key Switch #????
Price = ????

Just a few more ideas to make it easier on others when it becomes their time to purchase the needed supplies or parts.


kingfish posted 08-29-2004 07:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Thanks Joe-

Good ideas, all; I'll try to apend a short list here with part numbers and prices as soon as I can. I don't know if Jimh can or will edit the article as published or not though. Yes indeed Teleflex is very proud of that kit. I found one price that was $15 or $20 less, but the item was out of stock and it would have been mimimally 3-4 weeks before I saw it. I was hot on the trail by that time and ordered it through iboats, who got it out the same day and I had it in my hands within 3 days.

A seeming oddity is that the bracket was available for like $60 or$70 by itself, so the other $200 was apparently for three feet of stainless threaded rod and vinyl cover, a couple of stainless bolts and nuts, the two female threaded ball joint couplings and the opportunity to have everything shipped at the same time. I am very happy with the outcome, and it is very heavy duty and professional looking, but yeah, it stretched the budget.

I *think* my local marina ordered the cables through their Bombardier supplier; I'll get more data about them and publish it here.

Louie Kokinis posted 08-29-2004 09:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
Looks great John!
jimh posted 08-29-2004 11:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
It is no problem to update the article with more information, so collect and send it as you can.

John--How are the throttle and shift handles arranged? Is the starboard handle controlling the starboard engine (the main)? And the port control the port engine (the auxiliary)? I noticed that the trim switches were on the port handle only. Did that affect your decision?

Joe Kriz posted 08-30-2004 12:59 AM ET (US)     Profile for Joe Kriz  Send Email to Joe Kriz     

That is a great question. I was wondering that also.
I had the same dilema on my OMC Dual Binnacle as my kicker is mounted on the Port side and the OMC Binnacle had 2 trim switches in the Port side handle. I replaced the dual trim switches with a single one and use the Port handle with the trim switch to control the main engine and the Starboard handle to control the port side kicker. It seemed backwards but once you use it, it feels natural because you always know which handle you have ahold of because of the trim switch (Main Engine)..
Let us know how you have this hooked up John and how you like it.


I also wonder how you hooked up the 3 wires from one of the trim switches of the OMC Binnacle Control to the Yamaha Tilt function in the Yamaha wiring harness.
More Details on this, Please.
How many wires for the Tilt function on the Yamaha side? 3 also?

I know that one of the trim switches on the control handle would plug right into the existing OMC trim function for the main engine in the OMC wiring harness, so that would be no problem.

erik selis posted 08-30-2004 07:02 AM ET (US)     Profile for erik selis  Send Email to erik selis     
Great job and great article John !

Both thumbs up.


kingfish posted 08-30-2004 11:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Louie and Eric - thank you.

Jim and Joe - I did struggle with which lever I wanted to control which engine. Given that the kicker is mounted on the port side of the main, there is a logic to controlling the kicker with the port lever and the main with the starboard lever. However, I concluded since I have been used to controlling my main motor with the lever that is in the same relative position on the single binnacle mount as the port lever is on the dual binnacle mount, and since both sets of TNT buttons are located in that handle, that I would cross-control with the port lever controlling the main (starboard) motor and the starboard lever controlling the kicker (port) motor. That has proved to work fine for me and when I instinctively reach for a control when operating the main motor, it is the port control I grab.

I spent more time deciding how I would locate the start switches; parallel with the motors or parallel with the controls? I finally opted to place them parallel with the controls, as the switches were directly below the binnacle mount controls, and I figured it was probably more instinctive to tie the keyswitch and control orientation together than it would be to start the main motor with the starboard switch then control the main motor with the port control, etc. So far so good on that one, too.

There are three wires for TNT on the Yamaha harness, too (I think basically there has to be three: up, down and power). With some help from a wire rigging guide that a local Yamaha dealer faxed me, that identified wire colors for various functions, I was able to close in on which wires were TNT and which wires were neutral lockout. Both of those sets got a Deutsch quick-disconnect. It turns out that, at least so far as Yamaha and OMC/Bombardier are concerned, harness wire colors are standardized or are very similar.

Great questions!

Eagleman posted 08-31-2004 12:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for Eagleman  Send Email to Eagleman     
No questions from this guy, just praise! On our previous 22' Whaler I ran a 9.9 Johnson kicker with a 225 Evinrude. My set up however was very basic but like yourself I was pleasantly surprised how well the hull performed with this amount of horse power. When I had both props in the water and spining 234.9 HP flat out it was slick. It appears that you thought about this project in advance and had all t's crossed and dotted the i's. Nice job- Kingfish- you're the Man!
Joe Kriz posted 08-31-2004 04:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for Joe Kriz  Send Email to Joe Kriz     
Thanks for the update John.

You and I came to the same conclusion about using the OMC Port Handle to control the Maiin engine due to the fact that the trim switche(s) are in the Port Handle.

Andy Gere has the older style Merc Dual Binnacle and he has separate trim switches in each handle. This would allow you to use either the Port or Starboard handle for either engine.. Personal choice with this Dual Binnacle..

alkar posted 09-05-2004 06:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for alkar  Send Email to alkar     
Great article John. You did a wonderful installation.

I bought that little motor about six months after it came out and used it on a large jet boat. It was a delight to own. That's the motor I would have recommended for your application as well.


captbone posted 09-06-2004 12:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for captbone  Send Email to captbone     
One set up that I love is this picture of a 25 Parker with twin 9.9 high thrust Yamaha four strokes. This is the ultimate is reliablity and safety. This set up cruise at 6-8mph and reportly gets over 10mpg running just on the kickers. With a 170+ gallon fuel tank that is well over a 1000 miles, I love the fact that if he wanted one day he could just fuel up and take a 3 day cruise to Bermuda. I would be torn between the 9.9hp for the little extra power and the 8hp for the TnT and pull cord start if something went wrong.

kingfish posted 09-06-2004 10:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Our "other" boat is a Parker 2520 SCMV with a Yamaha 225 OX66 and a Yamaha 4s Hi thrust 9.9. That's where I got the experience with Yamaha 704 Dual binnacle mount control. It is a sweet set up, but ours uses a steering connector arm on the backside of the lower unit and of course doesn't have electric tilt. Not as nice as what I now have on my Outrage, but mighty nice. And can get places faster than with just twin 9.9's, though with worse gas mileage...
captbone posted 09-07-2004 11:08 AM ET (US)     Profile for captbone  Send Email to captbone     
You need to check out that picture.
kingfish posted 09-07-2004 02:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
You're right: I now have checked that photo out and that is some set up! By the way, I think that clearly is a Parker, but I think it is either a 21' or a 23', as the 25 does not have that deep a notch on the transom. I wonder how he has his various controls set up...
captbone posted 09-07-2004 04:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for captbone  Send Email to captbone     
I was torn if thats a 23 or a 25. I think that becauses it has the stern box on either side of the motor that it is the 23. The set up on that is great. I think that because of space between the motors that you could just drive by the throttles.
17 bodega posted 09-13-2004 03:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for 17 bodega  Send Email to 17 bodega     
I am very impressed with your work on this kicker. I am looking to do something of this nature to my boat. I, like Joe, am dealing with sticker shock on the parts, and hope to rig something with spare parts of one kind or another. Thanks for sharing the information.


JohnM posted 12-26-2004 10:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for JohnM  Send Email to JohnM     
I've been looking at your installation on your 22' Outrage and have been debating between the T9.9 or the T8. I'm leaning towards the T8 for a replacement my 1983 22' Revenge Cuddy. I had a 9.9 Yamaha mounted port side on my boat previously with a 25" shaft. You mentioned in your thread on using a 20" shaft which may save a little weight. I know my 9.9 was plenty far below the transom. You also mentioned trying it out on Lake Michigan this summer fishing. Did the 6 amp charging system keep your batteries charged while running your equipment? Are you happy with the results?


wwknapp posted 12-27-2004 01:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for wwknapp  Send Email to wwknapp     
According to the service manual the T9.9 long weighs 100 lbs in the remote version, the extra long weighs 101 lbs. If I remember right the T8 remote with tilt comes in at 108 lbs. If you have a extra long, the extension can probably be removed to convert it to a long, it's a add on setup to start with.

The T9.9 is a 10 amp charge. But no tilt.

The other advantage of the T9.9 is a much larger diameter prop that's available in a wider range of pitch than is for the T8.

I'm suspecting that the tilt mount unit of the T8 might be adaptable to a T9.9 with some work. Otherwise you have to figure out some other way to handle tilt. I've been keeping my eye out for a mount off a T8 to play with on that.


andrewbanks posted 12-27-2004 09:06 AM ET (US)     Profile for andrewbanks  Send Email to andrewbanks     
This is great information. Thank you! I have a 22 foot outrage and will be looking to install a kicker engine on for trolling, etc.. Does the T8 move fast enough for trolling? My boat also has a 225 Evinrude but I'm leaning towards a Evinrude kicker. My boat is already set-up with a throttle for 2 engines and 2 separate starters. I would assume it would be much easier to go with an Evinrude. Thanks again.
kingfish posted 12-27-2004 11:42 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
John and Andy-

I am very happy with the results. I have two batteries, one automotive cranking battery and one Lifeline deep cycle AGM; I don't have a lot of accessories running when I'm trolling (just GPS/Sounder and and VHF, maybe the stereo), but the 6 amp charger stayed up with it. Thing is, I have a spare battery if it doesn't.

The T8 would take my Outrage 22 pretty close to hull speed, that is, 6+ MPH. Most of my trolling in the Great Lakes is below 3 MPH so no problem there. Trolling the Atlantic or the Gulf for some saltwater species might require something more than 3 MPH, but haven't tried yet. I'll be smarter about that in the Spring. The speed a motor of larger horsepower would give you, like a 9.9 or 15 say, would still be limited to hull speed, which is probably less than 1 MPH more than I'm getting right now.

As far as the controls are concerned, they're usable with another Evinrude *or* a Yamaha. If you went with a T8 Yamaha remote control, you would have to run a Yamaha power and gauge harness, but if you have Teleflex style cables, you're already in business for shift and throttle. If not, it's an easy and relatively inexpensive project to replace your current spare sgift and throttle cables with Teleflex type.

Let me know if you have any other questions-


JohnM posted 12-27-2004 06:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for JohnM  Send Email to JohnM     
Decisions, decisions. I probably will go with the 20" shaft. I allready had the shift and throttle cables installed for the 9.9 previously installed but will need to change controls and wiring harness to go with the T8 with tilt. All the 2005 info from Yamaha shows the 9.9 as a "new" model. I still haven't gotten a response from dealers or elsewhere on what is new about it. I see they have come out with new controls for 2005 but the motor specs looks the same in the new brochures. Good thing I have 5 months till open water!!! I still plan to tear in to my 9.9 and see what caused it to go down.


junerscuner posted 05-08-2005 11:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for junerscuner  Send Email to junerscuner     
John Flock,
In your article about a 8hp kicker , I saw lenco trimtabs. I have an 87 18-foot Boston Whaler Outrage and I am thinking about adding them. Where you have the trimtabs, I do not have wood. I noticed a piece of wood at the top of the actuator. Do you have any wood at the bottom of the transom where the trim tabs are? According to Boston Whaler, I do not have any wood. Was there a special way you installed the trim tabs?

kingfish posted 05-09-2005 09:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     

Here is a link to one of the earlier threads where I described my installation - I can't find the original long version that was developed during the actual work, but this one will give you the picture, I think.

If you need more, either email me or start a new thread, so we don't intermingle trim tab info with kicker info-

John Flook

jim_usa posted 06-05-2006 05:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for jim_usa  Send Email to jim_usa     
Where'd you get that ignition plate on the left?

I have one on my boat but can't figure out where to get one to replace my broken one. The boat's manufacturer says they don't carry them anymore.


jim_usa posted 06-05-2006 05:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for jim_usa  Send Email to jim_usa
kingfish posted 12-31-2009 09:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Better late than never???

I'm almost dead positive that plate came with the new dual OMC controls, or I ordered it through my local OMC dealer along with the dual control at the same time...Not wanting to bet my firstborn on the accuracy of my memory these days, but I do not believe it came with the boat.

Bruce Graham posted 02-03-2010 01:05 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bruce Graham  Send Email to Bruce Graham     
Hey Kingfish, I live in Alaska and bought a 22' Outrage 3 years ago in California and trailered it to Alaska. I absolutely love this boat. I would like to mount a kicker motor and found your outstanding posts on this website although it is a few years old. I would like to ask you a few questions to get started, are you still out there? thanks!
kingfish posted 02-03-2010 08:55 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Yes I am, and fire away!

(And a thank you to my friend Peter Dunster for bringing this question to my attention.)

SJUAE posted 02-03-2010 02:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     

The ignition switch is still current and came in the box with my 2006 ETEC 200HO

I ordered a second one when I installed a Yam 9.9 last year

Wiring here

Your reference article was very useful as a basis for any kicker installation


Bruce Graham posted 02-04-2010 01:42 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bruce Graham  Send Email to Bruce Graham     
thanks kingfish, i am not sure i want to go to all the trouble to wire the kicker to the console with controls and everything but i am interested in how to mount it to the transom. i have a 1986 22' outrage with a 200 hp evinrude main motor. the transom, as i am sure you know, widens out toward the gunnel and is not receptive to direct mounting. it looks like it needs a separate bracket. i removed my trim tabs(did not see much use for them as much as i needed a kicker and they leaked hydraulic fluid so took them off) and am ready to do the kicker thing. as you know, alaska is not a place to fool around with a single motor. i hope to have a kicker in place that i can use for trolling (i do alot of that) and have it ready in case my main motor fails and i need to stay off the rocks/get back to port. any suggestions/pictures for mounting the kicker? i have a 8hp yamaha that i think i can get used for a good price. i am assuming it is enough to troll against the tide and push the boat in an emergency. thanks for your thoughts.
SJUAE posted 02-04-2010 05:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     

I'm not familar with your boat but in the reference section there's a picture of a 1986 22 outrage with a main engine bracket

I presume the pad to the right we can see was for a twin engine setup.

If you cant use this for a kicker mount then maybe this simple bracket could be of intrest


kingfish posted 02-04-2010 08:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     

If your '86 transom is the same as my '92 transom (and I think it is), then the widening to which you refer really doesn't begin until you get outboard of the thickened motor mounting pad, where the transom cutout starts to radius up towards the gunwale. If it weren't for my trim tabs, I could have mounted my kicker another 2-3 inches further outboard from where I did, and the kicker motor clamps would have still swallowed the transom. You can take a look at the photos with my article to see what that would mean. And, at least for my purposes, my kicker is mounted far enough outboard right where it is.

Were I you, I would look a little closer at the possibility of mounting your kicker right on the transom as I did. Lift a kicker up on the transom with the clamps turned all the way out and see how far outboard it will go. And you will still want to bolt the kicker to the transom both for all kinds of security reasons, and to gain a convenient height for the ventilation plate and for any steering connections.

Good luck, keep us posted, and let me know if I can be of further help.

Bruce Graham posted 02-18-2010 11:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bruce Graham  Send Email to Bruce Graham     
Thanks so much, will look at these options, as well as adding the special trim tabs, hope to get started soon though my boat is still covered in snow! shrimp season opens april 15th!
Darkside posted 07-28-2010 09:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for Darkside    
[Revived this discussion only to change the topic. Please start a new thread if you wish to change the topic. If you wish to post a notice of WANTED TO BUY, use the MARKETPLACE area.--jimh]
jimh posted 07-29-2010 05:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
[Removed off-topic posting which revived this thread.]
paxaran posted 05-29-2012 08:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for paxaran  Send Email to paxaran     
Hi- what is that ignition you have- I have the same on my 17' Sport (1985) and I want to replace it. I knows its new than the boat, but still cannot find the exact one- its pre-wires and has a plug.

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