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Author Topic:   Mercury's "RUDE AWAKENING" Campaign
LHG posted 02-22-2006 12:00 AM ET (US)   Profile for LHG  
This [brochure] will not be popular here, but for many it will, and since Boston Whaler boats come with Mercury motors, it's worth looking at as a response to the BRP infomercial campaign. Obviously, I couldn't resist, since the infomercial has been widely discussed here also. I think it's nevertheless very informative, as was the infomercial data, and the magazine shootouts verify Mercury's data, with all setups being done by the respective factories and verified by Bass and Walleye Boat Magazine. Basically they are saying the 3.0-liter OptiMax motors blow away the 3.3-liter Evinrudes, all the way around. Obviously, Mercury's approach is less "kind" than the magazine would state.

This ad relates to the all of the Bass and Walleye Boat Magazine shootouts, and doesn't pull any punches. What I think is particularly interesting is the engine weights indicated. The supposedly lightweight E-tec weigh closer to the Verado than promoted, and the 3-star OptiMax has cleaner emissions too.

In the end, I guess one just has to determine whose ads make the most sense to them. Someone once said, "never pick a fight you can't win". Has the infomercial campaign fallen into this trap? At least when it comes to OptiMax, we know why they don't go there.

sosmerc posted 02-22-2006 01:07 AM ET (US)     Profile for sosmerc  Send Email to sosmerc     
As they say "Competition is good" and ultimately the consumer is the real "winner".

I'm a Mercury guy, but I'm glad to see E-Tech putting some pressure on Merc...and Merc is responding. The 2 stroke is not dead yet and I'm sure glad Merc is still offering the Optimax. I think the "ad wars" will spur more comparison testing and engine reviews by the magazines and I look forward to some very interesting reading.

jimh posted 02-22-2006 01:16 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
This flyer was being handed out at the Detroit Boat Show today. The flyer makes some good points for OptiMax.

One gripe: the graphs are all out of scale. I see this all the time in advertising. The graphic artists invent these bar charts and draw them to look nice in the layout, but the length of the comparative bars makes no sense at all. They are drawn completely out of scale. If the data were plotted to scale, the bars would often be of negligible difference in length.

Can a 26-minute informercial be far behind?

Also, the flyer mentions the J.D. Power award results. Man, that was just announced on Thursday. The art department must have been working all weekend to get this brochure finished and printed. (And leaked to LHG for distribution!)

17 bodega posted 02-22-2006 03:09 AM ET (US)     Profile for 17 bodega  Send Email to 17 bodega     
Are figures available on the hydrocarbon output differences between the two brands?
seahorse posted 02-22-2006 07:15 AM ET (US)     Profile for seahorse  Send Email to seahorse     

The emission cetification results should be available at this link:

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/certdata.htm#marinesi

tombro posted 02-22-2006 07:20 AM ET (US)     Profile for tombro  Send Email to tombro     
Touche! Although I agree with Jim about the bar graphs. Those marketing/advertising people...
fourdfish posted 02-22-2006 07:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for fourdfish  Send Email to fourdfish     
However, BRP has the Coast Guard test on carbon monoxides and the letter from them stateing that ETECs were the cleanest engines! The Ad campaign is only getting started.
seahorse posted 02-22-2006 08:09 AM ET (US)     Profile for seahorse  Send Email to seahorse     
Is the new Merc ad campaign saying what E-TEC has said for almost three years now, that 2-strokes are better than four-strokes
Peter posted 02-22-2006 09:06 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
If the Mercury message is that the Optimax is better than the E-TEC and the E-TEC's infomercial message is that "2 > 4", then it seems quite reasonable to suggest that Mercury has just validated the "2 > 4" message in its "Rude Awakening" campaign. It continues to make me wonder why Merc invested so much money in the VERADO in an attempt to match 2-stroke performance when they had 2-stroke performance all along.

I do love the clever way Mercury has weaved the 90 Optimax versus 90 E-TEC test results into the pitch. Note, however, the little disclaimer at the bottom of the advertising copy that says "90 hp tests were conducted by Mercury Marine using Mercury Marine testing standards and practices." Are these Mercury Marine standards and practices the same ones they used when comparing the Verado 275 to the Yamaha HPDI 300 in the 2005 catalog. The one in which they severely overpropped the Yamaha in two separate tests? Interesting that they use the Mercury Marine testing rather than the independent tests in Trailer Boat and B&WB where the heavy 90 Optimax did not win.

I have little doubt that the Optimax is and will be a better product than it was 5 years ago and Mercury Optimax fans should really thank Evinrude for causing that. However, the "next" generation Optimax still needs to address its user friendliness shortcomings such as battery dependence, oil consumption, self-winterization and service interval frequency to get my attention as a DFI 2-stroke consumer.

PeteB88 posted 02-22-2006 09:48 AM ET (US)     Profile for PeteB88  Send Email to PeteB88     
The problem is they still cost too damn much money - period, bottom line.
LHG posted 02-22-2006 10:17 AM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
A few notes:

1. Regarding the 90's, in the B&WB mag test, they said they believed the Optimax 90 would have been the fastest had it been installed at the same running height of the other engines. As it was, it was within fractions of the others in top speed anyway. All of the 90's were surprisingly close in that test.

2. With respect to Seahorse's 2 vs 4 question, I think the Mercury's message is *IF* you want 2 stroke DFI, and want the fastest performer and best fuel economy, you might as well go for the best, not second best. If you want 4-stroke, as most do now, that's another story and another type of decision. Mercury hopes many of those people will want Verado and their other four-strokes, but there is lots of Japanese competition in that arena. I guess they just want to cover both worlds.

Buckda posted 02-22-2006 10:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
I don't know how this can be a 'rude awakening'. Evinrude was comparing E-TEC to VERADO, not OptiMax.

If anything, it is validation of Evinrude's point.

So...now that Mercury is stating openly in it's advertising that Optimax is the best value, I wonder about their motivations of pushing heavily a poor value, high-priced Verado on the boat-buying public?!! IF OptiMax is so great on emissions, accelleration, ease of maintenance, etc..then why spend all that money on development of VERADO? Perhaps the stockholders should be asking these questions about where their capital investments are being made!


It's funny how LHG likes to compare the Evinrude E-TEC infomercial against the results of the Bass & Walleye Boats magazine tests, when the infomercial is comparing E-TEC to four-strokeYamaha's and Mercury motors, and the B&WB magazine test is comparing E-TEC to OptiMax and HPDI motors.

At least this latest advertisement from Mercury clues us in on that misdirection. All of the best illusionists know about misdirection. We already know that Mercury is good at creating illusions...how did they get that black paint job in the first place?!

:)

It's actually a great bit of advertising, and a good return volley to defend/protect OptiMax marketshare...especially in the wake of the VERADO Hype, and when directed at 2-stroke preferred buyers like those Evinrude has been targeting - the hard-core fishing/boating public instead of the booze and cruise crowd.

What must really frustrate LHG in the wee small hours of the morning is that Brunswick is probably the biggest promoter of the "booze and cruise" mentality that he abhors so much. It was only a matter of time until Mercury developed a motor that served that lucrative market better. This campaign, coupled with the announcement of the "next Generation" of OptiMax engines sends the signal that Mercury wants to protect its interests on both fronts.

As a strong player in this market, facing extreme pressure on the one side from Yamaha and the other import four-strokes, Mercury is fighting to keep their marketshare on three different fronts: 4-stroke, 2-stroke and share of new boat transoms. That battle is pretty fun/impressive to watch, actually. Those guys are working hard.

fourdfish posted 02-22-2006 10:55 AM ET (US)     Profile for fourdfish  Send Email to fourdfish     
WoW Larry-- How about that great Verado now! It must be eating you up! All this time you have been trying to sell everyone here on the Verado and then Merc pulls this with the Optimax.
Last year you talked about buying one of those Verados for your boat and now you changed your tune! I'm sure you don't remember about saying that weight doesn't matter etc! Now you
say your buying an Optimax. Merc must have been hurt by ETEC or they would not have responded. I think it's great!
So what about the smaller HP Optimax? Where are they?
Actually, so much deception in that ad that I don't have time right now.
LHG posted 02-22-2006 12:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
I knew this would have certain folks howling at the moon.

As for Brunsick's Booze and Crooze boats, yes, I'm not a fan. I don't play pool either. I buy Lowrance instead of Navman. But what is REALLY bad out on the water are the Bombardier SEA DOO's (hideously designed for James Bond movies?), offensive looking jet boats, and the PWC's) I'll take a Sea Ray any day over those contraptions.

I have said for some time that Evinrude, like our politicians, have started a new "Attack Ad" method of advertizing against Yamaha and Verado, like the outboard industry has not seen before. With this, comes risk, particularly if you're vulnerable, like the E-tec is to Optimax and HPDI. None of the other manufacturers have taken this approach, and I think up-ing this ante was a mistake. Time will tell. So now Mercury can, and is, giving it back to them where it hurts. I have been wondering if Yamaha will also, in a V-Max campaign.

As the public, informed or not, mislead by the Japanese four-strokebrands or not as Evinrude would have you believe, takes the market to 85% four-strokesaturation, it puts E/J between a shrinking "rock and a hard place".
Having to fight for market against the four-strokeoverwhelming market share (the rock), while at the same time fighting the all time performance king, Mercury (the hard place), on it's brand loyal turf, for some portion of the 15% marketshare 2-stroke DFI sales. I can tell you, Jim Cramer & his "Mad Money" would not be telling you to put your savings in the middle like that. Mercury, literally, cannot, and will not, lose it's long time 2-stroke dominance in performance circles, to Evinrude, as long as 2-strokes are being made.
Why they are pushing drag race and acceleration performance when that is Mercury's own game, is beyond me. With Merc's almost unlimited resourses and experience in performance design and features, no way this will happen, and with the new 300 Opti, and all the other racing division engines, it's not now either. A B&WB mag 300 HP shootout? There's nobody to come to party except Mercury! So maybe inadvertantly, as indicated by people here who are surprised that the infomercial campaign against four-strokes triggered an Optimax campaign against E-tec. Evinrude's ad people should have thought about that. Mercury is probably thinking "hey wait a minute - they're pushing 2-stroke PERDORMANCE against 4-stroke, and we OWN the 2-stroke PERFORMANCE world for 50 years - so let's go get 'em".

I think Evinrude's got a fine product from I have read here from users, like all of the outboards one can but today, from Tohatsu TDLI on up. The 50 years of OMC brand loyalty should keep them in the game, as we see people like Andy Gere here, and many others, willing to wait out a product introduction for a long time. Many waited a long time for the Verado, also. But there are problems, too.
They are not in the new HP race now developing in the big 3, with nothing over 250HP, an engine that in all likelihood won't outperform the 265HP 250XS Optimax, nor with as many features. Verado, Optimax and Yamaha own the luxury, high end dual, triple, quad outboard boat market and will continue to do so. Suzuki and Honda 225's are trying hard to break into that, but with only minor success. No E-tecs under 40 HP were announced, leaving them bare to compete with the 100% four-strokemarket of the others below 75HP down to 2 HP. Whether the 40-50 and 60 E-tecs can penetrate that four-strokemarket, dominated by the same weight Merc/Yamaha offerings, is debateable. And worse, those 60 E-tecs had some early problems. Not hearing much about those engines at all. Then there still is the huge gap between 90 and 200 HP, promised, shown, orders taken to some degree, but still not filled. This has had to cost company dearly in those popular 115 and 150 HP markets. I am suspecting 3-star compliance has been a problem in these long delays? Lots of catching up to do there, although I believe that 60 degree block 150 will be an excellent engine like it's predecessor was. Time is short and the competition from Japan and Mercury is withering. I guess it is a "A 'Rude Awakening" to reality.

OK Fourdy, now it's your turn

Buckda posted 02-22-2006 01:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
My favorite shiny part on your lure is how you're the only one here who tries to interject "actual" HP when describing rated HP motors (e.g. "the 265 HP 250 HP XS OptiMax").

Love that. Just like spraying fish attractant on your bait.

Can I start to refer to my new 90 HP E-TECs as "100 HP 90 HP E-TECs"?

:)

Most financial experts will tell you to take care of the big fish first. I'm surpised that Mercury has for a large part, given up against Yamaha and turned their "marketing focus" on Evinrude. As the biggest fish in the pond, you have to expect that the little fish are gunning for you.

By the way, I agree...Jet Skis are really annoying, but remember too, in your collossal oversight of criticism of Yamaha lately, that they also sell a great many water bikes that are equally annoying.

The one redeeming factor for the jet ski crowd is that it's difficult for them to cruise by throwing a 4 foot wake, radio blaring, gold chains gleaming and fenders flopping....though the two seem to have a symbiotic relationship (where you find one, you find the other).

My final favorite is when Mercury touts market share, as if they've earned every transom that they've ever placed a motor. This really, is akin to a priviledged son claiming the success of his father's business as his own success. We don't know how Mercury would fare in the true marketplace, since their parent company keeps buying and giving them transoms to play with.

In no way is this a shot at the quality of Mercury or how they stack up to competition...it's a statement of fact. We don't know what effect true consumer choice would be on their business. They offer more motors in a more complete lineup than anyone else, but they also enjoy a 'given marketshare' every year based on sales projections from their sibling boat-building companies.

I think that the huge market share owned by Yamaha (who does NOT own transoms) would be a much, much more frightening bit of competition than Evinrude, with 15% share (not owning transoms either).

And yet, the plaintitative cry from Merc fans here is all about E-TEC and none about Yamaha lately. That federal judge must have handed down quite the written smack-down to illicit that kind of silence from marketing-types.

jeffs22outrage posted 02-22-2006 01:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for jeffs22outrage  Send Email to jeffs22outrage     
All of the boats my family and I have owned have had Merc power. My outrage is the first OMC powered vessel that we/I have owned. I tend not to be "BRAND LOYAL" one way or the other. Nor do I blindly believe manufactures advertising. If I where going to buying new power for my outrage I would take a couple things in to consideration. Cost, availability, industry write ups, weight, fuel economy, service records, and for me the most important, the sales and service of the business where I would be purchasing the item. For the most part all of the Merc mechanics we have to deal with over the years have just OK - flaky at best. While on the other hand Lockemans (OMC/BRP exculsive) has always been very professional, knowledgeable, and just a great over all. A business who I would want to support with my dollar. Unlike the local Merc sale and service outfits around here. The nearest Merc, Yamaha, Honda guy that I would trust and want to give my business to is a 3+hour drive from my house. So for me that would be a very important factor in considering new power.

One thing that I hate in these types of handouts is in all the comparisons they have. Why do they selectively compare brands from test to test? Some have the merc vs, Yamaha, Evinrudes, while other just have Merc vs Evinrude. Is the Yamaha results not shown because they were the best in that category?

I think Buckda brings up a strong point. One that I really would like an answer to. If the verados or any 4 stroke is a superior powermaking technology than a 2stroke powerplant why continue to bring 2 strokes to market? I will always believe 2 strokes are a better choice for outboards and other recreational vehicles. Why? 2 strong reasons. 1. 2 Strokes will always be lighter than a 4 stroke of the same Hp. 2. strokes deliver a power stroke every other revolution of the crankshaft where 4 stroke every 4th revolution. The result is more torque (truly more the more important more than Hp.) over a broader powerband.

I think Dave is also correct about the booze cruises wanting a 4 strokes. I think this is because of strong media campaigns to a less knowledgeable crowd.

Lastly, This is something that I am going to be asking around the boat show this weekend but, are these outboards able to run on E85 ethanol? As much as some might like it, this fuel is going to start replacing the old fossil fuels more and more. Do not get me wrong, petroleum products are going to be around for the foreseeable future.
http://www.e85fuel.com/

jimh posted 02-22-2006 01:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I have to interject that the topic of the personal watercraft (PWC) as an artless form and a metonymic symbol of class warfare has already been discussed at some length in

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000224.html

This brochure from Mercury is a good first step, but only as a handout or flyer. As web-content it is miserable, much too large in file size, and hopelessly awkward to view on-line.

Mercury has been consistently outboxed in the promotional fight ring by Bombardier. The need to answer 26-minute infomercial with 26-minute infomercial, not a little tri-fold flyer making the rounds from an obscure website host.

We do Mercury a favor to even bring this to everyone's attention. Absent the free promotion it is getting here, it might have been a small shot which never finds a target.

Let's see how long before you get one of these brochures in the mail, see it at your dealer, of find it on the Mercury website. This will be a good measure of Mercury marketing agility.

What about OptiMax GEN2, coming in late summer? Perhaps Mercury will have a larger caliber salvo to fire then.

prm1177 posted 02-22-2006 01:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for prm1177  Send Email to prm1177     
How's this for a progression?

1-Large 4 strokes introduced
2-Market responds favorably to low noise & low emissions of 4s
3-Market eventually reacts to performance issues of 4s vs 2s.
4-Verado introduced to respond to #3
5-Etec introduced to respond to #2
6-ETEC markets 2 stroke vs Verado
7-Mercury markets Optimax against ETec
7a-Mercury introduces new Opti line to respond to #2

LHG posted 02-22-2006 02:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
Dave-- Mercury has published a HP vs RPM graph on the 250 XS Optimax and 300 Xs Optimax. The 250 puts out 265 HP, and the 300 puts out an impressive 310 HP. At least you're getting what you're paying for. That also figures with what a BW person told me about the 320 Outrage with a newly installed pair of 250 XS (photo on Cetacea Page 78). They had switched to the then newly released Opti's from 250 EFI's, known to be strong engines, and he said the Opti's were FASTER, much to my surprise. Since the EFI's were a true 250 HP, the 265HP rating on the 250 XS seems to follow. This 250 XS also smoked a Ram Ficht 250 in a B&WB shootout a few years ago, and in their own dyno test, pulled more HP.

As for those E-tec 90's, maybe they sqeak by at 90 HP, but that's about it. How do I know this? The 90 Optimax is about the same HP, but when BW was offering the 90 Optimax on the 170's, it was the slowest performer top end of the 3 offerings, close behind the "Mercaha" 90 4-stroke, both getting beaten by the 100 HP 2-stroke 90. Incidentally, on a recent report from a 90 E-tec owner on a Montauk, he reported 42 MPH top end. That's what the Yamaha 2-stroke 90 does on same boat, and that engine is generally regarded as less than 90 HP. Clark Roberts has reported 49 MPH with his Merc 90 on a Montauk. This HP rule still leaves any consumer at risk

elaelap posted 02-22-2006 03:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
This thread is one reason why some of us are so saddened by the inextricable relationship between Boston Whaler boats and Mercury outboard motors. Don't get me wrong...we'd be as displeased if the same relationship existed between BW and Yamaha, BW and OMC, BW and Suzuki, etc. I mean, talk about the tail wagging the dog! I came to Whalers because of their utilitarian design, their seaworthiness, their safety, their aesthetic appeal, their endurance and longevity, the high quality of their manufacture, their success as workboats, their extensive use (up until recently, that is) by police & sheriffs, firefighters, the coast guard, the military, and other governmental agencies. I came to Whalers for the BOATS, not the various outboard motors which power them.

Reading these endless debates makes me think of my sailing days, when sure, serious sailors--usually racers--would heatedly discuss which sails they preferred, but such discussions would take a very low rank in priority and frequency of occurrence compared with debates about hull design, construction techniques, rigging and sparring, external versus internal ballast, keel design, (fixed v. mixed v. pure centerboard or even leeboard; full v. fin v. high tech dagger), rudder type, draft, type of sailboat for various uses (sloop v. cutter v. ketch v. yawl v. schooner, etc), layout below, berth and galley location, etc, etc, etc. We'd go on for hours about BOATS, not sails (which obviously I've likened metaphorically to outboard motors in this comment).

I'm convinced that the major outboard motor manufacturers ALL produce good products which work adequately on the transoms of Boston Whaler BOATS, and I just can't see what all the heat is about...

Tony

LHG posted 02-22-2006 03:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
Jim - My intreptation of the "Rude Awakening" idea was that it was for magazine advertizements and TV commercials on the Saturday morning boating/fishing shows, the people most likely to still want a 2-stroke engine. I think we'll be seeing it there. I think the last thing Evinrude wants is a Mercury Optimax infomercial pitted aginst the E-tec. That could be real ugly when they pit a 3.2 liter 310 horse Opti XS against a larger 3.3 liter 250 E-tec, representing the BEST both companies have to offer.

I do think the informercials have been successful, but the problem is, can the product deliver, and did they wake up the sleeping giant. Not that it's a bad product at all. As these shootouts over the last two years have indicated, the E-tecs have never run ahead of the Optimax in acceleration, speed, HP output and most important, fuel economy. To their credit, Mercury seems to have let it go at that, still winning races, and selling hi-peformance bass boat and go fast engines, and letting the magazine results do the promoting. And actually, Evinrude wisely has steered clear of the Optimax and Merc's performance XS versions of same. But Evinrude's claims of 2-stroke superiority over the Japanese and Verado four-strokes finally got to somebody at Mercury, and now armed with the #1 DFI rating from JD Powers besides, they decided to counter Evinrude's advertizing, and pointing out what has been showing as Optimax's superiority in certain characteristics, sales numbers and customer approval.

There are two ways of looking at this, and either way, BRP is in a tough situation. Some here say that the Optimax has only gotten to #1, and with even more improvements coming, because of competition from Evinrude. Maybe competition from Yamaha has helped too? Let's say that's true, but where does that leave you? Still up against a tough product, with large marketshare and tons of transoms.

Or, the Evinrude ad and infomercial campaign, skillfully trying not to arouse Wisconsin brother Mercury, while at the same time telling people they want 2-strokes over four-strokes, results in the inevitable. "I want a clean 2-stroke, but I want a Mercury or Yamaha clean 2-stroke, for reasons already mentioned, including JD Powers. So all the infomercial has done is sell some Evinrudes, and sell some Optimax also. A terrible position to be in with one's advertizing. I think the "Rude Awakening" campaign is doing exactly that - the big lions walking away with Evinrude's four-strokekill.

Peter posted 02-22-2006 04:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
After all the endless discussion, I still don't think Larry understands the infomercial message, 2 > 4. Mercury isn't the prime competition for BRP. Nothing BRP does, short of buying Brunswick, is going to dislodge a Mercury outboard from a Brunswick boat transom. Those two things are locked together. It's a complete waste of the significant advertising money to go after Mercury's Optimax. Attacking the Optimax is contrary to the 2 > 4 theme of the infomercial. 2 > 4 was THE message and the only message and it was delivered extremely effectively. Mercury could have easily done the same thing (assuming the Optimax was improved) but for its internal conflict.

The advertising money was much better spent on going after the independent boat transom market leader Yamaha and the four-strokehype, which is what they did. It just so happens that Mercury did get caught in a bit of the cross-fire because it manufactures and sells a four-strokewhich was supposed to be the be-all-end-all for 2-strokes. Interestingly, things didn't quite turn out that way and after spending $100 million to develop this product, Mercury finds itself still having to spend more money on the Optimax, a product that the Verado was originally hyped as the equal.

I see this advertising campaign as an attempt to stop the bleeding. Not only as the 2 > 4 campaign snatched away some four-strokesales from Yamaha, they've snatched away some Optimax sales too. Of course that will change when Mercury upgrades the Optimax to have all or nearly all of the E-TEC qualities. The bar for DFI 2-strokes has been raised by Evinrude and now Mercury needs to step up and equal or raise the bar, not just make some comparative advertising folder or magazine insert claiming they are fastest and not just fixing a few things like noise.

fourdfish posted 02-22-2006 04:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for fourdfish  Send Email to fourdfish     
I have to go with Tony on that one! However, only one individual starts these commercials and they have nothing to do with classic Whalers, only sales for his company!
Buckda posted 02-22-2006 04:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
"Armed with JD powers #1 ranking"??! Come on Larry - not even you believe your own puffery on that one!

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/001088.html

quote:
“In this latest JD Powers satisfaction survey, they mentioned that underpowering a boat is one of the biggest issues regarding lack of satisfaction both for the engine AND boat manufacturers. They say go with the highest HP the hull is rated for. Or in my case, stretch it a little!”
(2002)

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/001240.html
“Remember JD Powers says the #1 reason Buyers are unhappy with their boat is underpowering. They recommend an outboard powered boat be within 10% of full rating.” (2002)

[note – 2002 was a good year for LHG and JD. Then the relationship went south…Note the anti-Yamaha angle. (oh I opine for those days of old when Yamaha was the friend and the enemy!]

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/002157.html

quote:
” Sounds like that money Yamaha invested with J D Power is paying off.”
(2003)
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/006237.html
quote:
” This why the JD Powers stuff is such a joke. Yamaha pays for their services, but Mercury doesn't. They unwittingly rated the Mercury designed and manufactured Yamaha 30-60HP four strokes the best of the lot!”
(2003)

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/008229.html
[in response to a forum member who had just received his JD Power Survey in the mail..]
“They should have paid you a dollar for the effort just to open their envelope, and toss it in the trash.” (2004)

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/007230.html
“This thread nicely points out what a joke the JD Powers operation is. Rememember [sic] manufacturers have to "pay to play", and Yamaha "plays" big time.” (2004)

[even last year, they were still “a hoax” perpetrated on the public…’garbage’ even!]
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/009254.html

quote:
“As someone in the insurance industry, I can tell you NADA, BUC etc, like JD Powers, ARE NOT CONSUMER ORIENTED PRODUCTS, even though they profess to be, a huge hoax perpetrated on the public so those in the industry can make money as dealers and middlemen. They are marketing materials published for the sole use of the industries they serve, the NEW (yes NEW) and USED marketplace and insurance companies. Artificial, forced, devaluation is their actual business, both for for promoting new sales through trade-ins (gee, that transimission repair is more than the car is worth, so I'll buy a new one), and so dealerships, auctioneers, etc, can take in the old product and re-sell it at a profit, and so insurance companies don't have a huge legal hassle on their hands with every claim settlement (here is what you get, and here is what all three valuations companies say your car is worth). Like a secret society, these are ironclad codes of operation that no one in the industry will dare break, or the whole system would fall apart.
This very carefully orchestrated, and co-ordinated, system works most of the time, since the consumer's hassle of fighting it is just to much. This is exactly as it is planned to do - it's the "tough to fight City Hall" syndrome. Occasionally, as in the case of Classic Whalers, it falls down, but only if you are an informed seller, and willing to do it on your own, at the expense of your extra time.”
(2005)
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/010200.html
quote:
” That stuff is pure garbage. Who ever pays gets the publicity. As an example, (we know Yamaha is a big buyer of JD Powers marketing services AKA Customer Satisfaction), the 250 and 300 HP Yamaha HPDI's are, and have been, a disaster. Owners of the 300's have had their boats laid up for months while they design a "fix". Yet they rate HPDI the highest? Pure garbage. Right now, the Mercury Optimax, (Mercury doesn't buy their services - doesn't need to) is the most trouble free DFI engine, all sizes, 75 to 250 HP.
Suzuki is now the big buyer of JDP, as evidenced by their big "win". Guess who has no transom deals? So now JDP is dumping on Yamaha and Mercury who together, have the great majority. You got to Pay to Play with the JD game.”
(2005)


There were 49 total matches, I did not waste any more of my time to dig in to find out what was said about JD Powers, but I think we all now know how you generally feel about those awards.

Oh wait! Now that they have good things to say about Mercury (since Mercury coughed up the dough to use their “junk, garbage, hoaxes, etc”, it’s important and somehow relevant.

fourdfish posted 02-22-2006 04:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for fourdfish  Send Email to fourdfish     
I wish I had that kind of energy! Nice going Dave. "Puffery" Good one! I wonder how many times this year he said 4 strokes are better than 2 strokes and now is blowing his horn about the greatness of Optimax!
Buckda posted 02-22-2006 05:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
I don't have issue with promotion of the OptiMax (2-stroke DFI). As Larry said, Evinrude's promotion of 2-strokes only GROWS the market for 2-strokes and Mercury (whose market share would presumably grow accordingly). I dont' think this is bad business, and I'm surprised that they're lashing out against E-TEC for doing so (Evinrude and Yamaha must be taking share away from some of their non-owned transoms!)

What Mercury is mad about, and is using illusion and misdirection to shoot back, is that Evinrude just called "Check!" with the Bishop looking straight down the line at Mercury's "Queen," VERADO. So the King sent the worker bees (OptiMax) out after them...even going so far as to misrepresent the comparisons that Evinrude makes in their literature (about CO emissions...the comparison is against Mercury VERADO and Yamaha's four-strokeNOT OptiMax. Evinrude did not claim in their literature to even have compared OptiMax CO Emissions with E-TEC...a clear misrepresentation!).

I think OptiMax is great. Long Live OptiMax. I'm glad they worked the bugs out and I'm happy that they introduced some produce evolutions and improvements in the Gen2 motors. (I think they still have work to do, however).

My other problem with their claims (in general) are the sales figures. Let's face it, they don't lie. Mercury has a hell of a lot of motors out there. But again, where are these sales coming from versus the sales from the competition?

It’s easy to make (sell) a lot of motors when you have a guaranteed pool of captive transoms waiting for them every year. Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, Tohatsu, Nissan and Evinrude are fighting it out on the merits of their products and the relationships they establish with non-related companies. Sure, every once in a while, we get the report of Yamaha buying some transoms…but this is usually to keep that company from going bankrupt! They’ve made it clear that they don’t want to be a boat-building company.

Larry is trolling for a response.. I know this, but by the very fact that he has a highly respected reputation on this site, he should refrain from such behavior (I’m surprised that JimH allows it – perhaps out of respect). There is truth in the things he says, and he has a wealth of knowledge to share with folks here – myself included. He’s just gotten under my skin lately for speaking very forcefully on things like buying American, supporting companies that operate in the US and employ US workers, etc – things that I also believe strongly in – and then torpedoing the only other “American” brand to the benefit of Yamaha, a one-time sworn enemy and for good reason! They’re the biggest competition/threat to Mercury.

Yeah, to the benefit of Yamaha. If Evinrude dies, where is that market-share going? Certainly not to Mercury! The boat-builders who use Evinrude (because they actually have a choice to) will not swap over to Mercury – they’re going to go with Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki or elsewhere.

Hell, in the case of the transoms not owned by Brunswick, Evinrude is Mercury’s best friend! They’re growing the market for 2-stroke DFI’s (or keeping it alive, depending on your opinion), at the same time…their marketshare is at the expense of the others with no owned transoms…Yamaha, Honda, etc.

Therefore, I’m wondering where LHG’s animosity toward Evinrude of late is coming from.

fourdfish posted 02-22-2006 05:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for fourdfish  Send Email to fourdfish     
Dave-I think Larry does have a lot of knowledge to share about what is really important to people here on this site but his posts have mostly been about Mercury in the past several months and I have not seen him offer much else. He did not respect your opinion or choice of engines nor anybody else unless they agree with him. I have called him on some of the things he has said because I think they are wrong but frankly I'm tired of it and have other things to do. In the long run, it will not affect the big picture. He may though, rub some of his friends here the wrong way and that would be sad.
LHG posted 02-22-2006 05:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
Dave - It's not the product, it's the advertizing and lobbiest.

If understand Peter correctly, Mercury has to now upgrade Optimax to be able to compete with E-tec qualities so that it runs slower, and uses more gas. That should make it a REAL seller! And I understand the 115, 130, 150 and 175 E-tecs have REALLY snatched sales from Mercury and Yamaha.
I think those 40, 50 and 60 Etecs are just killing the Mercury built four-strokes in that size, and used by Yamaha also. Oh well, just tough luck for Mercury.

Buckda posted 02-22-2006 05:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
I think that ultimately LHG has respect for the E-TEC engines.

Of course, they (and everyone else) will always be second best to his favorite, Mercury. That's not a problem for me. I understand that. I've owned Evinrude, Mercury and Yamaha motors and have generally had good success/experiences with them all.

I chose E-TEC this time, primarly on two factors: weight and the ability to run without a battery. The other factors were: dealer, and clean technology/fuel efficiency.

I think LHG will be one of the first people who will crawl all over my boat checking these motors out. I have no problem with that either.

jbtaz posted 02-22-2006 06:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for jbtaz  Send Email to jbtaz     
It's about time the truth be told and we compare apples to apples-not apples to oranges.

Optimax is the best DFI on the market, but somehow the ETEC lovers will cry foul.

ETEC is a blip on the radar screen of outboards. It's a Mercury and Yamaha world.

Buckda posted 02-22-2006 06:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Not true JBTAZ -
There are three major players in the two stroke world right now. Each have pros and cons, and each of those pros and cons matter to different degrees to each different customer.

JayR posted 02-22-2006 06:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for JayR  Send Email to JayR     
Y'all have beat this to death....

Can you find something else to squabble about?

Hens in a hen house....

Wild Turkey posted 02-22-2006 09:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for Wild Turkey  Send Email to Wild Turkey     
Let me get this straight. Concerning the Evinrude E-TEC horsepower lineup (or what I have learned from reading LHG):

40 HP - Just as heavy as Mercury 4-stroke, not black. Why would anybody buy one?

60 HP - Also just as heavy as Mercury four-strokeplus numerous problems as reported on this website, limited availablity, not black. Why would anybody buy one?

75 HP - Help me out here, LHG, I can't remember why this model stinks. I am sure it does though.

90 HP - Not very fast, only 42 mph on a classic Montauk, Clark's 17 went 50 mph with Mercury 90 HP 2-stroke, blown powerheads as reported on this website, no SmartCraft type gauge options, Look at the price!, not black. Why would anybody buy one?

115, 150, 175, 200 HP - Who knows when you can get one, unproven, not black, PRICE! Why would anybody buy one?

200, 225, 250 HP - 225 Smoked by OptiMax in B&WB tests, horrible fuel consumption, unproven, PRICE, louder than Verado, no DTS option, not black, freshwater HO models have tacky American flag decals-Canadian owned. Why would anybody buy one?

Anything I have missed?

P.S. How is BRP going to stay in business?


fourdfish posted 02-22-2006 11:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for fourdfish  Send Email to fourdfish     
Yes- Who are you going to believe????
By the way check out BRPs financial status, They can't build them fast enough to keep up with orders!
AllanR posted 02-24-2006 02:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for AllanR  Send Email to AllanR     
Larry.

I really enjoy your posts. But I have to think of the old saying "one doth protest too much" when it comes to the Mercury versus Evinrude thing.

The alleged "2nd generation" Optimax is still a minor upgrade, and I don't believe that the technology that it uses is competitive with the E-TEC.

I do like the Verado Supercharged engines, as when I have seen them they have been smooth and powerful. But I have to wonder if they are not too complex for the long term. But those Smartcraft gauges are great.

However, when it comes time to repower my 1994 Montauk, I would still go for the E-TEC, the way things stand now. I base that on my 1994 Johnson 90 2 stroke, which just keeps on going. And the 1982 Johnson 35 2 stroke that I had on my earlier 13 footer for 12 years. Both engines have only needed the normal maintenance any outboard needs, and have never left me stranded.

Am I biased? Yes, to a point. But it is not a religion for me, just what I have experienced. I believe in keeping things as simple as possible. On the water, that means reliability, and in the E-TEC's case, efficiency as well from everything that I have heard about them.

Allan

zpeed7 posted 02-24-2006 10:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for zpeed7  Send Email to zpeed7     
I wonder what the Yamaha marketing people are thinking while Evinrude and Mercury tear each other up... ;-)

Guil

Peter posted 02-26-2006 12:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Having a little time to kill this morning and curious to see what other forums were saying about the latest Mercury campaign, I came across a post in another forum that spotted a misrepresentation in the marketing piece relating to warranties, something I had not looked at very carefully before and thought it was worthy of pointing out here as I really dislike intentional misrepresentations of manufacturer's products made by a competiting manufacturer, I don't care who it is.

In the Mercury advertising under the heading "Optimax is Covered" it states "Unlike Evinrude, which offers a third party after-market warranty package, every Mercury engine comes with a three-year, factory-backed, non-declining warranty. That means no outside parties or claims to deal with - just total piece of mind." This statement is simply deceptive as they are comparing the Mercury factory warranty with Evinrude's extended protection program. All Evinrudes come with a three-year, factory-backed, non-declining warranty. Currently there is also an offer of a four-year extended protection plan provided through a third-party on top of the three year, factory-backed, non-declining warranty.

Having my attention raised to the bit of deception about warranties, I decided to check out the CO claim by taking a look at the certification data submitted to the EPA by the manufacturers. EPA certification data is available to the public and the data has entries for HC, NOx and CO although the EPA currently does not regulate CO. See www.epa.gov/otaq/certdata.htm#marinesi previously pointed out by Seahorse. What I have found is that while both the 2005 and 2006 EPA certification database have an entry of 84.9 g/kw-hr for the engine family that the E-TEC 225 HO belongs to, there is no entry in either database for a claim of 78.8 g/kw-hr CO, HC or NOx whatsoever by any manufacturer. So what is the basis for 78.8 g/kw-hr claim? Another MMSTP (Mercury Marine Standard Test Procedure)? Larry, as you are always seem to be the loop when it comes to Mercury, please enlighten us on the source of data for this comparison. ;)

Contrast this to what Evinrude did in its 2>4 campaign. In that campaign, Evinrude favorably compares its 84.9 g/kw-hr CO emissions from its 225 HO to the 278.8 g/kw-hr CO emissions from the 225 Verado to make a point about how a DFI 2-stroke is cleaner on CO emissions than a 4-stroke, consistent with the 2>4 theme. The comparison data comes straight from the 2005 EPA certification database, not half from the 2005 EPA database and the other half from some undisclosed source as appears to be the case in the latest Mercury flyer. By the way, any 225 HP DFI 2-stroke is cleaner on CO emissions than a 225 HP Verado or other four-strokeand if Mercury wanted to make a similar claim on reduced CO emissions for its Optimaxes against four-strokes, it could but it won't because if its own internal conflicts. You won't see that from Yamaha either due to internal conflicts.

andygere posted 02-26-2006 04:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
Peter, interesting point on the warranty claims. At the recent boat show, I spoke with the owner of the Whaler/Evinrude/Mercury/Yamaha/Honda dealership about the aftermarket plan offered by BRP on new E-TECs. He told me that they prefer doing work under that program over factory warranty work, because the insurance company (First Protection) pays the actual invoiced cost of repairs. All of the factory warranty work (by all manufacturers) reimburse the dealership based on a schedule of rates and reimbursements for the specific repair work done. He told me that it does not take into account the higher cost of labor, rent, etc. in this market, so he makes less doing factory warranty work than that paid by aftermarket warranties, including the 4 year extended coverage currently offered by BRP.
Larry posted 02-27-2006 12:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for Larry  Send Email to Larry     
I must confess that I do not have any of the knowledge of any of the posters to this thread. But I may be more like the average boater. My priorities are in order noise, smell, fuel usage. I don't care about brand, efi vs dfi or number of strokes. Maybe if knew more about engines I would, but I have meet very few boaters, sail or power with expertise of those on this site (one reason I like it so much!)
lol
fourdfish posted 02-27-2006 01:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for fourdfish  Send Email to fourdfish     
It is a good site, Larry- You have access to a lot of resources with many people who visit with lots of background and different points of view. All of this thanks to Jim H who does a great job.
Buckda posted 03-02-2006 05:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Seems like Mercury is the company that had a 'rude awakening.

They were focusing on VERADO and here comes Evinrude with a DFI system that actually competes on a pretty even footing with OptiMax...better in some areas, worse in others.

Then the suits in Lake Forest get wind that those BRP factories in Wisconsin are humming with activity...maybe not everyone is enamored with the four-strokecraze as was previously thought.

Good thing for them they're strong players in this category too, thanks, in part, to the number of captive transoms ("transom-ransom?") they command.

Verado's been launched, freeing up some resources to re-focus on protecting the DFI marketshare. That's where we are today.

It's a good day to be an outboard motor buyer...other than the problem of choosing.

pglein posted 03-06-2006 03:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for pglein  Send Email to pglein     
If you actually have to come out and say that you're better than the competition, you aren't actually better enough for it to matter.
seahorse posted 04-09-2006 12:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for seahorse  Send Email to seahorse     
The following is a part of a letter from the head of BRP Outboard Division Roch Lambert about the "Rude Awakening" campaign.

----------------

I am sure it is no news to you that Mercury® published a marketing flyer to counter our E-TEC® marketing campaign. Here's the deal on that piece.

To start with, the document is loaded with inaccuracies from cover to cover. Here are some examples:

1- Emissions

The first inside page says that Optimax® is cleaner than E-TEC. It is totally wrong. While more than half of the Optimax offering is still only rated 2-star, our full line of E-TEC engines are 3-star.

According to the U.S. EPA's website, www.epa.gov/otaq/certdata.htm#marinesi, E-TEC is lower in total reportable emissions in every case! The graph at the bottom of that page only refers to carbon monoxide emissions for one engine family.

The number they have for E-TEC is the one published on the website and, it is accurate. Their 78.8 is not substantiated anywhere on the EPA website and there is no indication as to their source of information.

2- Weight

The weight they used was published in Bass and Walleye Boats magazine back in June of last year. The information reported is incorrect.

The difference between the E-TEC and the Optimax in the 225-HP range should be 10-pounds not the 44 reported.

The magazine has agreed to re-weigh the engines and the results should be published in their coming May issue.

3- Warranty

Their warranty claims are wrong in two ways.

First, they say that our 3-year nondeclining warranty is not factory backed. They clearly confuse our boat show promotion and our basic warranty.

Our 3- year coverage is fully factory supported while the 4-year extension during the boat show promotion time is handled through a very solid, well-known partner that has been offering extended warranty programs in our industry for years.

Also to be noted, the engine used in the shootout is not a PRO XS and did not exist at the time of the shootout. But it now appears in their racing catalog as a SPORT XS which, contrary to what was written in the article and the flyer, only carries a 2-year warranty.

This is just a small sample of false information in the piece.

There are many more inaccuracies and I encourage you to talk to your Evinrude sales representative to get the rest.

Mercury agrees, 2 > 4

We are very flattered and excited by their response. I want to remind you that the theme of our campaign these past two years has been 2 > 4. For them to have to respond to our positioning with Optimax rather than Verado is a clear endorsement of our belief. They just could not counter our arguments with their 4 strokes.

Contrary to what they said when Verado was launched, I guess 2-stroke engines are not a thing of the past anymore. It is great to see them help us promote the category. I only wish they would first do their homework properly.

--------------------------

LHG posted 04-09-2006 08:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
Well, someone needs to tell ol' Roch to clean up the quality control in the factory. Look at the terrible, substandard "two-tone" paint job on these E-TECs.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/?action=view& current=FirstSteps003.jpg .

I can't believe those passed inspection for delivery to a customer, and now the customer has to live with that. Merc or Yamaha would have pulled these engines from the line with such a mismatched paint job.

jimh posted 04-10-2006 01:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
This is an easy game to play. Can I have a turn?

---

Well, someone needs to tell ol' Pat Mackay to clean up the quality control in the factory. Look at the terrible, substandard "three-tone" paint job on this Verado:

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/images/threeToneVerado.jpg

I can't believe those passed inspection for delivery to a customer, and now the customer has to live with that. Bombardier or Yamaha would have pulled these engines from the line with such a mismatched paint job.

---

It is the same problem: a painted metal surface adjoining a plastic component with molded-in color. Any change in reflectivity causes an apparent change in hue. Throw is a few digital cameras, JPEG file formats, and unknown monitors with unknown color space, brightness, and contrasts, and you can get some odd looking pictures.

Also, in that shot of Dave's boat, it was running in the Detroit River near Zug Island steel works. Who knows what that does to paint!

Tom W Clark posted 04-10-2006 12:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
More and more I suspect Larry is actually the real author of this latest Mercury ad campaign. Both Mercury's and Larry's arguments are equally frivolous and easily deconstructed.
LHG posted 04-10-2006 01:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
Most peopole know that daytime photos, with natural light, are the best rendition of color, better than a flash. That photo showing the Evinrude two tone mis-matched colors is worth a thousand words, "spin" or not, and taken in strong daylight conditions. I didn't do the pint job, nor take the photo. I'm just the interpreter of quality here. I think it's terrible, but if anyone likes that, be my guest and spend your money accordingly, and I will not bash you personally. I do think Dave deserved a better "fit and finish" for his large expenditure, but he seems to be happy, so that is fine also.

But for comparison, as long as Jim has chosen to question the quality of Merc's paint work in retaliation, here is a daytime light photo of some new Merc Verados. You be the judge on Merc's quality of finish vs Evinrude's, and make your own decision. Incidentally, the very top component of the Verados is INTENTIONALLY a pebbled matt black surface, not glossy black like the rest of the engine. The photo is of twin new Verado 150's on a Whaler 240 Outrage for sale.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v429/lgoltz/Verados/?action=view& current=7269006-R1-046-21A.jpg .

I'm not going to waste my time responding to Tom's remarks

Buckda posted 04-10-2006 02:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Respectfully, I think that if the photo from either yours (taken in apparent overcast sunshine given the white sky in your photo Larry) or mine (taken in bright, direct sunlight) were to be reversed, the images would look very different (The angle of the sun has something to do with it).

But since you mention it, it was something I noticed after I was able to get the boat out into direct sunlight.

Under normal circumstances, it is not very noticeable unless you're looking for it, and as JimH said, it's to be expected when you go from painted metal to colored plastic.

For my part, I think it is much easier to match white or black plastic than it is to match other colors with painted metal. (Unless the plastic itself is painted). Look at many of today's automobiles, and they don't even try. (Witness the Chevy Avalanche and even the fenders on my Ford Explorer).

Quite honestly, if I wanted sexy, I'd buy a Donzi. If the motors run well (so far, so good) and are reliable, and don't corrode, I'm happy.

They're getting their first coat of wax on Saturday.

Dave

Peter posted 04-10-2006 02:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
If you don't like the color of your E-TEC 90, you can always paint it. If you don't like the weight of your Optimax 90, there isn't much you can do about that. I'll take a slight color variation resulting from the manufacturing process over excess weight resulting from the design process any day of the week.
LHG posted 04-10-2006 03:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
Well the 90 Opti is built on the same block as the 115 Opti, and same weight.

But if you buy a 225 Optimax instead of a 225 Evinrude, you get it all: less weight, a 60 degree block, a first class black paint job, no two tone blue paint job and flag graphics, better fuel economy, same decible running sound (soon to be lower in 2007), and better performance.

As JimH like to say: "This is an easy game to play. Can I have a turn?"

Tom W Clark posted 04-10-2006 03:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
So after all of this Larry, the worst thing you can say about the E-Tec is that you don't like the paint job?

Folks, that is very high praise indeed!

LHG posted 04-10-2006 04:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
Yes, from all the talk around here, I think it sounds like a fine product. The color mis-match on the blue engines is unfortunate, but probably easily solved by selecting a white motor instead.

But it is a quality control problem, maybe a cost cutting problem, and it should have been easy to solve if they had wanted to. If the blue impregnated plastic cowling is the governing color, then all they had to do was "shoot" this color and have the paint mixed to match. This is common practice in the automotive painting and marine industry.

The gearcase and lower engine mount design seems to date to (at least look like) OMC engines of the 70's, and could a use a little modernization also. No other brand now uses a 2.0 gear ratio from 75 to 130 HP ranges. It's about right for the 115's and 130's.

Since you asked..........

jimh posted 04-10-2006 10:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
The discussion has turned from the real focus--how well Mercury has been able to respond to the fabulous marketing success of Bombardier. Let's get back on the current topic: --what is the current topic?

As I see it, the discussion at hand is how well do random photographs taken with digital cameras in random lighting conditions, compressed into JPEG files, transmitted over the internet, and rendered by random browsers back into digital colors for display by random video cards on random monitors--how well do these images represent the actual color matching of outboard motor components of either Mercury or Bombardier.

Well, as you might guess, I think they do a poor job of representing the actual colors. It is hardly imaginable that one would try to base a charge of poor quality control on such a photograph, except perhaps you could charge the photographer.

In the case in point, I have seen in person the engines which are depicted in the digital image. And I have a dozen or more digital images of them which I took. The color matching is nothing like what is seen in the particular picture that is linked above. That image is simply a false representation of what things really look like.

Maybe I needed to be more clear, but the reason I responded with a picture of my own taking of a Verado which showed similar poor color matching was just to demonstrate how common this can be. It is not unusual for the color balance and exposure to be in error in a digital camera image. I have mentioned this before, but just about ALL of the digital images which appear on the CONTINUOUSWAVE website have been processed (by me) to correct for errors in exposure and color balance in the original image.

As far as product photography goes, taking a good picture of something which is a dark color and has a glossy finish is very difficult. As you may know, I live and work in Detroit, and we make cars here. In the course of my work I have been involved with many projects involving photography of cars. It is not unusual for the process of setting up the lighting to take a couple of days. I am not exaggerating--several days. And there are lighting directors who are specialists in just this type of thing--lighting cars for photography.

If you think that the cover shot on a car brochure for a $50,000 automobile was just snapped off on a $175 digital camera without regard to lighting, you are in for a rude awakening--if you will pardon the pun.

For a more homespun version, l'll tell this story. Have you ever washed a load of dark socks, matched them up in the laundry room, and then worn a pair of tose sock outdoors in direct sunlight where you discovered they didn't look even close? This is something akin to the picture mentioned above.

Color perceptions depends on the kind of light illuminating the subject. What looks perfect in indoor florescent lighting might look less than perfect on a clear winter day, and then look perfect again on a cloudy day at sunset.

But enough of this nonsense about digital photography and lighting.

The real problem for Mercury is that they have utterly failed to answer the marketing campaign of Bombardier. They don't have 26-minute gorgeous films available on cable, broadcast, and DVD. They don't have viral web videos making the rounds of dozens of websites. They have a three-page printed flyer. They passed out a few dozen at a few boat shows. They have a link to some obscure website where you can download the seven-megabyte file which turns into a very difficult to read browser window. And, to make things worse, it appears the content of the three-page flyer has some discrepancies.

Actually, things have gotten so out of hand for Mercury that I am beginning to feel sorry for them. I don't know where they are spending their marketing money, but they are getting badly beaten by Bombardier.

I wonder who is driving the bus? After Miami, I think that if I didn't mention it, no one would have even noticed they announced a entire new line of engines to replace OptiMax this fall.

Mercury has made some fine outboard motors. So has Bombardier. But in terms of getting the message out, there is no contest who is leading in that race.

bsmotril posted 04-10-2006 10:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for bsmotril  Send Email to bsmotril     
When it comes to utilizing the internet for marketing, Merc is sadly lagging behind Bombardier and Yamaha. Their website makeover of a year or so ago is still pretty lame compared to their competition. Maybe it's time for a new ad agency. BillS
VI Jamie 22 posted 04-10-2006 11:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for VI Jamie 22  Send Email to VI Jamie 22     
Hi, Picking on paint is a waste of time. Warranty and how the company handles problems when they arise is very important to me. We sold a Merc EFI that failed after 6 months. Mercury refused to warranty it because I found water in the fuel filter/seperator. I said OK, how about doing a public relations thing and giving the customer a powerhead. They said no. I told the customer this. Why would I sell more of these engines? The customer had met a Merc representative at the Miami Boat Show and called him and complained. They gave him a powerhead for public relations without including me, the dealer. I looked bad, the rep looked like a hero. Why would I sell this brand of outboard? Now when this customer has a warranty issue, I ask him to call his guy at Merc. It saves me time and headaches. I no longer promote this brand, I do not feel confident that a customer, without an inside guy at Merc, will get his money's worth. Why would I??
fourdfish posted 04-11-2006 12:14 AM ET (US)     Profile for fourdfish  Send Email to fourdfish     
VI Jamie 22-- I am not defending Merc but I have seen this before with other Manufactures and I myself was given preferential treatment by a factory rep at a boat show twice for 2 different reasons. I also can see how it would not be advantageous to you!
seahorse posted 04-20-2006 07:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for seahorse  Send Email to seahorse     
The latest issue of Bass and Walleye Boats has a comment by the editor Steve Quinlan. Because of controversy about the way the motor weights were done by the boat factory, Bass and Walleye Boats weighed all three similar motors themselves, on a certified scale, and came up with interesting results, much lighter that what was in the "Rude Awakening" brochure and closer to what each manufacturer says they are.

Merc - 497 #

E-TEC-502#

HPDI -556#

Engine weight just one of several items that was incorrect in Merc's "Rude Awakening" advertising brochure.

fourdfish posted 04-21-2006 11:20 AM ET (US)     Profile for fourdfish  Send Email to fourdfish     
Since Larry started this thread and has touted this mag article as absolute fact and Merc used it in a very inaccurate ad brochure, I have been waiting for this and other retractions. Since Larry stated in the original post that the ETEC weight was much closer to the Verado, This should put that false assumption to rest! They never feature these retractions or comments promenently so people will see them.

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