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Author Topic:   REBEL Propellers From Bombardier

jimh posted 04-16-2006 12:53 PM ET (US)
Bombardier have a new line of stainless steel performance propellers, the REBEL. This is the first new design of propellers from Evinrude/Johnson in some time. These new propellers have some interesting features. Take a look:

Note that the trailing edge of the blade has been ground to a flat, sharp, 90-degree edge. This is similar to the configuration seen on a number of the newer Mercury propellers. Also note the blade cupping. You can almost see the blade cup by the change in the light reflection in the above images. There is significant blade cup both at the outer tip of the blade and also along the trailing edge nearer the hub.
According to the manufacturer:
"The new Rebel propellers are designed and engineered to deliver even greater fuel economy plus improved midrange and top-end performance on the 60 and 90-degree V6 Evinrude E-TEC engines. Rebel props are great in offshore, large runabouts and even large pontoon boat applications for maximum boat and engine performance.
"These new 3-blade propellers are designed with a large diameter and efficient blade contour to provide faster speeds at lower rpm, improved fuel economy for more miles per gallon, increased top end speed, and a longer cruise range. The Rebel propellers are made of highly polished stainless steel with right-hand and left-hand rotation available. Six pitches are offered; 15 in. (380 mm), 17 in. (432 mm), 19 in. (483 mm), 21 in. (533 mm), 23 in. (584 mm), and 25 in. (635 mm)."
In a number of previous boat tests in which the E-TEC engine was running older style propellers, it has been observed that the mid-range RPM fuel economy was not as good as other motors. The new REBEL propeller seems designed specifically for this segment of the performance curve. It will be very interesting to see performance test results with the E-TEC and this new propeller.

bsmotril posted 04-16-2006 08:43 PM ET (US)
Sure looks to me like a Merc Mirage II with a different logo.
BillS
jimh posted 04-17-2006 08:52 AM ET (US)
The REBEL has a rubber hub insert; the MIRAGEPlus has a plastic hub insert.
The MIRAGEPlus has a noticeably longer exhaust snout on it, about an inch longer. Its blades have more rake. The blade curvature seems quite different, too.
Compare at:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/images/propellerTest/ mirageBlade600x515.jpg
Tom W Clark posted 04-17-2006 12:16 PM ET (US)
Based on the two photos above, I would be inclined to agree with Bill. It certainly looks like BRP's answer to the Mercury Mirage Plus, an excellent tried and true propeller that comprises about 90 percent of Boston Whaler's OE propellers for 135 HP and larger outboards.
I would expect the Rebel propeller to be an excellent performer.
LHG posted 04-17-2006 12:28 PM ET (US)
Compared to what I'm used to looking at (Mercury Revolution-4 offshore props), that prop sure looks like a tame, elephant round eared prop with little rake. It does look like a conservative fuel economy prop, however.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v429/lgoltz/Outrage%2025/?action=view& current=DSCN1463.jpg .
RJG posted 04-17-2006 01:00 PM ET (US)
Does a prop get its performance characterstics from the leading edge of the blade or the trailing edge of the blade? It does look like the prop on my sons 40 HP Yamaha.(without the cup). I wonder how this prop would work on my 18 Outrage.
Tom W Clark posted 04-17-2006 01:33 PM ET (US)
RJG,
A propeller gets its performance characteristics from both the leading and trailing edges as well as the tip, shape, size and angles of the blade. It is a very complicated design process that is part art and part science.
I can not think of ANY stainless steel propeller for a high horsepower motor today that does NOT have a crisply machined trailing edge. That is a standard and important element of any modern cupped propeller.
I also cannot think of a propeller made today for large outboards that is not cupped to some degree.
jimh posted 04-17-2006 06:27 PM ET (US)
Because the propeller has been designed for a specific engine, the V6 E-TEC, it seems reasonable to assume that the performance of the propeller has been optimized for that engine.
Because the stated goal of the propeller was to deliver improved fuel economy at mid-range and top speeds, it seems reasonable to assume that the propeller will probably do this.
gvisko posted 04-17-2006 07:26 PM ET (US)
Jimh
Thank you for the information on thr Rebel prop.
I will pick up my 1987 22 outrage with the new 225 e-tec this weekend from my dealer. I will ask him to order this prop on your recomadation and the high cost of fuel.
When I install it I will keep everyone posted of the results. Do you think the 19" is the way to go on this boat?
I dont think the dealer is going to order three props
for me to try out.

George Viskovich
jimh posted 04-17-2006 07:59 PM ET (US)
George--Thank Bombardier for the propeller. I just took a couple of pictures of it.
I have reviewed the material above, but I do not find anywhere I have made a recommendation. I look forward to hearing of your results, if you choose to get a REBEL propeller for your E-TEC. If you find it to your liking, you may make a recommendation.
jimh posted 04-17-2006 08:16 PM ET (US)
Although the shape of the Bombardier REBEL propeller may be tame, elephant like, conservative, and lack rake, I am not sure that it matters. The proof of the pudding is in the performance, not in the appearance.
Actually, in terms of appearance I find it quite attractive. But I would not judge it on appearance. I judge it on its performance. We await some results.
seahorse posted 04-18-2006 12:05 AM ET (US)
Gvisco,
A while back I posted performance results on an E=TEC 225 on a early 22' Outrange. With a light load it ran fine with a 21" Viper, but fuel economy was OK, but not that good in the mid-range.
For your rig, start with a fuel gas tank and I believe the 19" Rebel would be the best all around prop.
The Rebel rpms are not always the same as the Viper or other prop's rpms of the same pitch.
Perhaps Jim could repost some of the Rebel vs. Viper prop performance reports that were posted a few months ago.
Tom W Clark posted 04-18-2006 12:10 AM ET (US)
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/004142.html
jimh posted 04-18-2006 12:38 AM ET (US)
Seahorse, Tom--Thanks for the reminder. Those results show a significant improvement in fuel economy. Here is an excerpt:
Engine Speed vs MPG
RPM   REBEL  VIPER
3,000  4.8    3.5
3,500  4.6    3.8
4,000  4.0    3.8
4,500  3.4    3.4
jimh posted 05-04-2006 03:16 AM ET (US)
There is some rumble and rumor that Bombardier will be changing the design of the hub on some of their propellers to a field-replaceable plastic hub insert from the non-field replaceable rubber insert. This may be done only on some propellers, generally the really high-pitch versions like a 26-inch pitch propeller.
Apparently the change to a field-replaceable insert is being made in response to a higher incidence of propellers with spun hubs when used with the new E-TEC motors. The E-TEC engines have so much torque that they apparently are able to twist or spin the rubber hubs. Bombardier had already changed to a beefier gear case on the E-TEC engines to handle the higher torque output of these motors. Now the propellers are being re-designed to accommodate the greater output, too.
It is not known if the design of the field-replaceable plastic hub will be compatible with the FLO-TORQ hubs used by Mercury.
seahorse posted 05-04-2006 04:21 AM ET (US)
The replacable hub design on the Rebel is to mimic Merc's set-up so the props can be used on other makes of motors.
stefan posted 05-04-2006 08:57 AM ET (US)
so for my 150 Etec(install this month!) w/ my 18' 1982 outrage- which rebel prop would be best?
Tom W Clark posted 05-04-2006 09:19 AM ET (US)
Stefan,
I'm not sure the Rebel propeller is the best choice for a small light boat like an Outrage 18 but if you just HAD to put one on your boat, you would choose the 19" pitch Rebel.
jimh posted 05-04-2006 09:36 AM ET (US)
seahorse--It is interesting that you mention the field-replaceable hub design as being intended to facilitate the use of the propellers with other brands of engine. I have long thought that this was one of benefits, if not the principal benefit, of using such a design. And of course, this benefit accrues mostly to the manufacturer, not the user.
stefan--To work up estimates of the proper propeller for an individual boat application, it is very strongly preferred that a separate discussion thread be started. Thanks.
jimh posted 05-05-2006 01:48 PM ET (US)
Some sketchy details about the new Bombardier field-replaceable propeller hub: the design will differ from the FLO-TORQ in that the metal coupling to the propeller shaft will be longer and transmit force to the replaceable insert over a larger area.
I'll post a picture as soon as I can find one to photograph. If anyone beats me to it, please email a digital image file to me. Thanks.
baltica posted 12-24-2008 09:43 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the helpful discussion concerning slipping rubber hub in oder OMC props. Last winter we repowered our 22 ft boat from a 200 hp Ficht to a new 200 hp E-Tec HO. Spun the old prop out after the third trip ou, and had two different prop shops replace the rubber, but each time it would spin out (mostly while running on plane >3500 rpm, funny the hole shot was still pretty good).
Replacing the old prop with a new Viper prop with plastic TBX hub system did the trick. No more slipping at higher rpm. even got an increase in top speed (from 40 to 45 mph).

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Author	Topic: REBEL Propellers From Bombardier
jimh	posted 04-16-2006 12:53 PM ET (US) Bombardier have a new line of stainless steel performance propellers, the REBEL. This is the first new design of propellers from Evinrude/Johnson in some time. These new propellers have some interesting features. Take a look: Note that the trailing edge of the blade has been ground to a flat, sharp, 90-degree edge. This is similar to the configuration seen on a number of the newer Mercury propellers. Also note the blade cupping. You can almost see the blade cup by the change in the light reflection in the above images. There is significant blade cup both at the outer tip of the blade and also along the trailing edge nearer the hub. According to the manufacturer: "The new Rebel propellers are designed and engineered to deliver even greater fuel economy plus improved midrange and top-end performance on the 60 and 90-degree V6 Evinrude E-TEC engines. Rebel props are great in offshore, large runabouts and even large pontoon boat applications for maximum boat and engine performance. "These new 3-blade propellers are designed with a large diameter and efficient blade contour to provide faster speeds at lower rpm, improved fuel economy for more miles per gallon, increased top end speed, and a longer cruise range. The Rebel propellers are made of highly polished stainless steel with right-hand and left-hand rotation available. Six pitches are offered; 15 in. (380 mm), 17 in. (432 mm), 19 in. (483 mm), 21 in. (533 mm), 23 in. (584 mm), and 25 in. (635 mm)." In a number of previous boat tests in which the E-TEC engine was running older style propellers, it has been observed that the mid-range RPM fuel economy was not as good as other motors. The new REBEL propeller seems designed specifically for this segment of the performance curve. It will be very interesting to see performance test results with the E-TEC and this new propeller.
bsmotril	posted 04-16-2006 08:43 PM ET (US) Sure looks to me like a Merc Mirage II with a different logo. BillS
jimh	posted 04-17-2006 08:52 AM ET (US) The REBEL has a rubber hub insert; the MIRAGEPlus has a plastic hub insert. The MIRAGEPlus has a noticeably longer exhaust snout on it, about an inch longer. Its blades have more rake. The blade curvature seems quite different, too. Compare at: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/images/propellerTest/ mirageBlade600x515.jpg
Tom W Clark	posted 04-17-2006 12:16 PM ET (US) Based on the two photos above, I would be inclined to agree with Bill. It certainly looks like BRP's answer to the Mercury Mirage Plus, an excellent tried and true propeller that comprises about 90 percent of Boston Whaler's OE propellers for 135 HP and larger outboards. I would expect the Rebel propeller to be an excellent performer.
LHG	posted 04-17-2006 12:28 PM ET (US) Compared to what I'm used to looking at (Mercury Revolution-4 offshore props), that prop sure looks like a tame, elephant round eared prop with little rake. It does look like a conservative fuel economy prop, however. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v429/lgoltz/Outrage%2025/?action=view& current=DSCN1463.jpg .
RJG	posted 04-17-2006 01:00 PM ET (US) Does a prop get its performance characterstics from the leading edge of the blade or the trailing edge of the blade? It does look like the prop on my sons 40 HP Yamaha.(without the cup). I wonder how this prop would work on my 18 Outrage.
Tom W Clark	posted 04-17-2006 01:33 PM ET (US) RJG, A propeller gets its performance characteristics from both the leading and trailing edges as well as the tip, shape, size and angles of the blade. It is a very complicated design process that is part art and part science. I can not think of ANY stainless steel propeller for a high horsepower motor today that does NOT have a crisply machined trailing edge. That is a standard and important element of any modern cupped propeller. I also cannot think of a propeller made today for large outboards that is not cupped to some degree.
jimh	posted 04-17-2006 06:27 PM ET (US) Because the propeller has been designed for a specific engine, the V6 E-TEC, it seems reasonable to assume that the performance of the propeller has been optimized for that engine. Because the stated goal of the propeller was to deliver improved fuel economy at mid-range and top speeds, it seems reasonable to assume that the propeller will probably do this.
gvisko	posted 04-17-2006 07:26 PM ET (US) Jimh Thank you for the information on thr Rebel prop. I will pick up my 1987 22 outrage with the new 225 e-tec this weekend from my dealer. I will ask him to order this prop on your recomadation and the high cost of fuel. When I install it I will keep everyone posted of the results. Do you think the 19" is the way to go on this boat? I dont think the dealer is going to order three props for me to try out. George Viskovich
jimh	posted 04-17-2006 07:59 PM ET (US) George--Thank Bombardier for the propeller. I just took a couple of pictures of it. I have reviewed the material above, but I do not find anywhere I have made a recommendation. I look forward to hearing of your results, if you choose to get a REBEL propeller for your E-TEC. If you find it to your liking, you may make a recommendation.
jimh	posted 04-17-2006 08:16 PM ET (US) Although the shape of the Bombardier REBEL propeller may be tame, elephant like, conservative, and lack rake, I am not sure that it matters. The proof of the pudding is in the performance, not in the appearance. Actually, in terms of appearance I find it quite attractive. But I would not judge it on appearance. I judge it on its performance. We await some results.
seahorse	posted 04-18-2006 12:05 AM ET (US) Gvisco, A while back I posted performance results on an E=TEC 225 on a early 22' Outrange. With a light load it ran fine with a 21" Viper, but fuel economy was OK, but not that good in the mid-range. For your rig, start with a fuel gas tank and I believe the 19" Rebel would be the best all around prop. The Rebel rpms are not always the same as the Viper or other prop's rpms of the same pitch. Perhaps Jim could repost some of the Rebel vs. Viper prop performance reports that were posted a few months ago.
Tom W Clark	posted 04-18-2006 12:10 AM ET (US) http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/004142.html
jimh	posted 04-18-2006 12:38 AM ET (US) Seahorse, Tom--Thanks for the reminder. Those results show a significant improvement in fuel economy. Here is an excerpt: Engine Speed vs MPG RPM REBEL VIPER 3,000 4.8 3.5 3,500 4.6 3.8 4,000 4.0 3.8 4,500 3.4 3.4
jimh	posted 05-04-2006 03:16 AM ET (US) There is some rumble and rumor that Bombardier will be changing the design of the hub on some of their propellers to a field-replaceable plastic hub insert from the non-field replaceable rubber insert. This may be done only on some propellers, generally the really high-pitch versions like a 26-inch pitch propeller. Apparently the change to a field-replaceable insert is being made in response to a higher incidence of propellers with spun hubs when used with the new E-TEC motors. The E-TEC engines have so much torque that they apparently are able to twist or spin the rubber hubs. Bombardier had already changed to a beefier gear case on the E-TEC engines to handle the higher torque output of these motors. Now the propellers are being re-designed to accommodate the greater output, too. It is not known if the design of the field-replaceable plastic hub will be compatible with the FLO-TORQ hubs used by Mercury.
seahorse	posted 05-04-2006 04:21 AM ET (US) The replacable hub design on the Rebel is to mimic Merc's set-up so the props can be used on other makes of motors.
stefan	posted 05-04-2006 08:57 AM ET (US) so for my 150 Etec(install this month!) w/ my 18' 1982 outrage- which rebel prop would be best?
Tom W Clark	posted 05-04-2006 09:19 AM ET (US) Stefan, I'm not sure the Rebel propeller is the best choice for a small light boat like an Outrage 18 but if you just HAD to put one on your boat, you would choose the 19" pitch Rebel.
jimh	posted 05-04-2006 09:36 AM ET (US) seahorse--It is interesting that you mention the field-replaceable hub design as being intended to facilitate the use of the propellers with other brands of engine. I have long thought that this was one of benefits, if not the principal benefit, of using such a design. And of course, this benefit accrues mostly to the manufacturer, not the user. stefan--To work up estimates of the proper propeller for an individual boat application, it is very strongly preferred that a separate discussion thread be started. Thanks.
jimh	posted 05-05-2006 01:48 PM ET (US) Some sketchy details about the new Bombardier field-replaceable propeller hub: the design will differ from the FLO-TORQ in that the metal coupling to the propeller shaft will be longer and transmit force to the replaceable insert over a larger area. I'll post a picture as soon as I can find one to photograph. If anyone beats me to it, please email a digital image file to me. Thanks.
baltica	posted 12-24-2008 09:43 PM ET (US) Thanks for the helpful discussion concerning slipping rubber hub in oder OMC props. Last winter we repowered our 22 ft boat from a 200 hp Ficht to a new 200 hp E-Tec HO. Spun the old prop out after the third trip ou, and had two different prop shops replace the rubber, but each time it would spin out (mostly while running on plane >3500 rpm, funny the hole shot was still pretty good). Replacing the old prop with a new Viper prop with plastic TBX hub system did the trick. No more slipping at higher rpm. even got an increase in top speed (from 40 to 45 mph).